Stuck with Euclidean space geometry exercise











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$ABCD$ is a tetrahedron. $E$ is a point on segment $AD$. $Δ$ is a line of plane $(BCD)$ parallel to $(BC)$.



Line $Δ$ intersects $(BD)$ at $I$ and $(CD)$ at $J$.



Plane $(ABC)$ intersects line $(EI)$ at $M$ and line $(EJ)$ at $N$.



Drawing



Show that lines $(MN)$ and $(BC)$ are parallel.





I am 15 years old (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade) and I am stuck. We get that





  • $M$ is on line $(AB)$ and $N$ on line $(AC)$


  • $frac{DB}{DI}=frac{DC}{DJ}=frac{BC}{IJ}$ since $(BC)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (per Thales)

  • we'd get the desired result by showing $frac{AM}{AB}=frac{AN}{AC}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{BC}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)

  • we'd get the desired result by showing that lines $(MN)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (since two lines parallel to a third one are parallel)

  • we'd get the above by showing $frac{EM}{EI}=frac{EN}{EJ}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{IJ}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)










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  • @Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
    – fgrieu
    Nov 18 at 17:49












  • I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
    – Jean Marie
    Nov 18 at 17:57










  • I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
    – Jean Marie
    Nov 18 at 18:30















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












$ABCD$ is a tetrahedron. $E$ is a point on segment $AD$. $Δ$ is a line of plane $(BCD)$ parallel to $(BC)$.



Line $Δ$ intersects $(BD)$ at $I$ and $(CD)$ at $J$.



Plane $(ABC)$ intersects line $(EI)$ at $M$ and line $(EJ)$ at $N$.



Drawing



Show that lines $(MN)$ and $(BC)$ are parallel.





I am 15 years old (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade) and I am stuck. We get that





  • $M$ is on line $(AB)$ and $N$ on line $(AC)$


  • $frac{DB}{DI}=frac{DC}{DJ}=frac{BC}{IJ}$ since $(BC)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (per Thales)

  • we'd get the desired result by showing $frac{AM}{AB}=frac{AN}{AC}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{BC}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)

  • we'd get the desired result by showing that lines $(MN)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (since two lines parallel to a third one are parallel)

  • we'd get the above by showing $frac{EM}{EI}=frac{EN}{EJ}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{IJ}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)










share|cite|improve this question
























  • @Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
    – fgrieu
    Nov 18 at 17:49












  • I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
    – Jean Marie
    Nov 18 at 17:57










  • I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
    – Jean Marie
    Nov 18 at 18:30













up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











$ABCD$ is a tetrahedron. $E$ is a point on segment $AD$. $Δ$ is a line of plane $(BCD)$ parallel to $(BC)$.



Line $Δ$ intersects $(BD)$ at $I$ and $(CD)$ at $J$.



Plane $(ABC)$ intersects line $(EI)$ at $M$ and line $(EJ)$ at $N$.



Drawing



Show that lines $(MN)$ and $(BC)$ are parallel.





I am 15 years old (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade) and I am stuck. We get that





  • $M$ is on line $(AB)$ and $N$ on line $(AC)$


  • $frac{DB}{DI}=frac{DC}{DJ}=frac{BC}{IJ}$ since $(BC)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (per Thales)

  • we'd get the desired result by showing $frac{AM}{AB}=frac{AN}{AC}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{BC}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)

  • we'd get the desired result by showing that lines $(MN)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (since two lines parallel to a third one are parallel)

  • we'd get the above by showing $frac{EM}{EI}=frac{EN}{EJ}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{IJ}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)










share|cite|improve this question















$ABCD$ is a tetrahedron. $E$ is a point on segment $AD$. $Δ$ is a line of plane $(BCD)$ parallel to $(BC)$.



Line $Δ$ intersects $(BD)$ at $I$ and $(CD)$ at $J$.



Plane $(ABC)$ intersects line $(EI)$ at $M$ and line $(EJ)$ at $N$.



Drawing



Show that lines $(MN)$ and $(BC)$ are parallel.





I am 15 years old (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade) and I am stuck. We get that





  • $M$ is on line $(AB)$ and $N$ on line $(AC)$


  • $frac{DB}{DI}=frac{DC}{DJ}=frac{BC}{IJ}$ since $(BC)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (per Thales)

  • we'd get the desired result by showing $frac{AM}{AB}=frac{AN}{AC}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{BC}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)

  • we'd get the desired result by showing that lines $(MN)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (since two lines parallel to a third one are parallel)

  • we'd get the above by showing $frac{EM}{EI}=frac{EN}{EJ}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{IJ}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)







euclidean-geometry






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edited Nov 18 at 17:45









Jean Marie

28.2k41848




28.2k41848










asked Nov 18 at 13:40









fgrieu

541319




541319












  • @Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
    – fgrieu
    Nov 18 at 17:49












  • I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
    – Jean Marie
    Nov 18 at 17:57










  • I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
    – Jean Marie
    Nov 18 at 18:30


















  • @Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
    – fgrieu
    Nov 18 at 17:49












  • I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
    – Jean Marie
    Nov 18 at 17:57










  • I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
    – Jean Marie
    Nov 18 at 18:30
















@Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 17:49






@Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 17:49














I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 17:57




I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 17:57












I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 18:30




I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 18:30










1 Answer
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You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.



Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.



Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal






share|cite|improve this answer























  • That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
    – fgrieu
    Nov 18 at 14:48










  • The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
    – Sorin Tirc
    Nov 18 at 15:48













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up vote
5
down vote













You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.



Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.



Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal






share|cite|improve this answer























  • That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
    – fgrieu
    Nov 18 at 14:48










  • The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
    – Sorin Tirc
    Nov 18 at 15:48

















up vote
5
down vote













You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.



Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.



Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal






share|cite|improve this answer























  • That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
    – fgrieu
    Nov 18 at 14:48










  • The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
    – Sorin Tirc
    Nov 18 at 15:48















up vote
5
down vote










up vote
5
down vote









You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.



Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.



Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal






share|cite|improve this answer














You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.



Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.



Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 18 at 20:48









fgrieu

541319




541319










answered Nov 18 at 14:07









Sorin Tirc

66210




66210












  • That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
    – fgrieu
    Nov 18 at 14:48










  • The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
    – Sorin Tirc
    Nov 18 at 15:48




















  • That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
    – fgrieu
    Nov 18 at 14:48










  • The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
    – Sorin Tirc
    Nov 18 at 15:48


















That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 14:48




That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 14:48












The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
– Sorin Tirc
Nov 18 at 15:48






The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
– Sorin Tirc
Nov 18 at 15:48




















 

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