Proving such a function is always constant











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Let $I subset R$ be an interval. Let $f : I to R$ be a continuous function.



Assume that $I := [a, b]$. Assume that for all $c, d in [a, b]$ such that $c < d$, there exists $e in [c,d]$ such that $f(e) = f(a)$ or $f(e) = f(b)$. Prove that $f$ is a constant.



Consider this statement: For all $c in [a,b], f(c) in {f(a),f(b)}$



I figured that proving this statement would allow me to prove the function to be constant, but I'm unable to do so. Any thoughts?










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  • Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
    – PJTraill
    Nov 22 at 21:53










  • The latter actually. @PJTraill
    – Ahmad Lamaa
    Nov 23 at 1:43

















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Let $I subset R$ be an interval. Let $f : I to R$ be a continuous function.



Assume that $I := [a, b]$. Assume that for all $c, d in [a, b]$ such that $c < d$, there exists $e in [c,d]$ such that $f(e) = f(a)$ or $f(e) = f(b)$. Prove that $f$ is a constant.



Consider this statement: For all $c in [a,b], f(c) in {f(a),f(b)}$



I figured that proving this statement would allow me to prove the function to be constant, but I'm unable to do so. Any thoughts?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
    – PJTraill
    Nov 22 at 21:53










  • The latter actually. @PJTraill
    – Ahmad Lamaa
    Nov 23 at 1:43















up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











Let $I subset R$ be an interval. Let $f : I to R$ be a continuous function.



Assume that $I := [a, b]$. Assume that for all $c, d in [a, b]$ such that $c < d$, there exists $e in [c,d]$ such that $f(e) = f(a)$ or $f(e) = f(b)$. Prove that $f$ is a constant.



Consider this statement: For all $c in [a,b], f(c) in {f(a),f(b)}$



I figured that proving this statement would allow me to prove the function to be constant, but I'm unable to do so. Any thoughts?










share|cite|improve this question















Let $I subset R$ be an interval. Let $f : I to R$ be a continuous function.



Assume that $I := [a, b]$. Assume that for all $c, d in [a, b]$ such that $c < d$, there exists $e in [c,d]$ such that $f(e) = f(a)$ or $f(e) = f(b)$. Prove that $f$ is a constant.



Consider this statement: For all $c in [a,b], f(c) in {f(a),f(b)}$



I figured that proving this statement would allow me to prove the function to be constant, but I'm unable to do so. Any thoughts?







real-analysis






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edited Nov 23 at 0:18









amWhy

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asked Nov 22 at 15:37









Ahmad Lamaa

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1326












  • Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
    – PJTraill
    Nov 22 at 21:53










  • The latter actually. @PJTraill
    – Ahmad Lamaa
    Nov 23 at 1:43




















  • Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
    – PJTraill
    Nov 22 at 21:53










  • The latter actually. @PJTraill
    – Ahmad Lamaa
    Nov 23 at 1:43


















Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
– PJTraill
Nov 22 at 21:53




Are (or were) you unable to prove the result from your statement, your statement from the given information or both?
– PJTraill
Nov 22 at 21:53












The latter actually. @PJTraill
– Ahmad Lamaa
Nov 23 at 1:43






The latter actually. @PJTraill
– Ahmad Lamaa
Nov 23 at 1:43












4 Answers
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We will proceed by contradiction:



I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement




$c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$




if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.



Contradiction Q.E.D.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
    – Yadati Kiran
    Nov 22 at 15:52








  • 1




    Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
    – Aleks J
    Nov 22 at 15:55




















up vote
4
down vote













Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.






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  • @PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
    – Dante Grevino
    Nov 22 at 23:41


















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The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.






share|cite|improve this answer




























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    You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.



    Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.



    The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.






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      4 Answers
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      active

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      4 Answers
      4






      active

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      active

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      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      5
      down vote













      We will proceed by contradiction:



      I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement




      $c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$




      if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
      If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.



      Contradiction Q.E.D.






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
        – Yadati Kiran
        Nov 22 at 15:52








      • 1




        Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
        – Aleks J
        Nov 22 at 15:55

















      up vote
      5
      down vote













      We will proceed by contradiction:



      I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement




      $c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$




      if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
      If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.



      Contradiction Q.E.D.






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
        – Yadati Kiran
        Nov 22 at 15:52








      • 1




        Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
        – Aleks J
        Nov 22 at 15:55















      up vote
      5
      down vote










      up vote
      5
      down vote









      We will proceed by contradiction:



      I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement




      $c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$




      if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
      If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.



      Contradiction Q.E.D.






      share|cite|improve this answer












      We will proceed by contradiction:



      I assume you want to prove that the function is constant given the statement




      $c in [a, b] Rightarrow f(c) in {f(a), f(b) }$




      if that's the case, then we get a continuous function to a discrete space.
      If the function takes more than one value, the image of our function will be$ {f(a), f(b)}$ which is disconnected. But continous functions preserve connectedness.



      Contradiction Q.E.D.







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Nov 22 at 15:48









      Aleks J

      1796




      1796












      • I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
        – Yadati Kiran
        Nov 22 at 15:52








      • 1




        Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
        – Aleks J
        Nov 22 at 15:55




















      • I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
        – Yadati Kiran
        Nov 22 at 15:52








      • 1




        Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
        – Aleks J
        Nov 22 at 15:55


















      I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
      – Yadati Kiran
      Nov 22 at 15:52






      I suppose here $f(c)in[f(a), f(b)]$. Otherwise the function is discontinuous assuming $f(a)neq f(b)$.
      – Yadati Kiran
      Nov 22 at 15:52






      1




      1




      Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
      – Aleks J
      Nov 22 at 15:55






      Yes, assuming $f(a) neq (fb) $ would mean it is discontinous, which is precisely the contradiction we're using that in fact $f(a)$ must be equal to $f(b)$ and the function is in fact constant. [think about the fact that if in the end both of them were to not be the same, the function would not be constant anyway ]
      – Aleks J
      Nov 22 at 15:55












      up vote
      4
      down vote













      Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • @PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
        – Dante Grevino
        Nov 22 at 23:41















      up vote
      4
      down vote













      Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • @PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
        – Dante Grevino
        Nov 22 at 23:41













      up vote
      4
      down vote










      up vote
      4
      down vote









      Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.






      share|cite|improve this answer














      Let $c$ in $(a,b)$ and let $epsilon$ be a positive real number such that $[c-epsilon,c+epsilon]subseteq[a,b]$. Define a sequence of intervals $(I_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ by the formula $I_n=[c-frac{epsilon}{n},c+frac{epsilon}{n}]$. By hypothesis, there exists a sequence of points $(c_n)_{ninmathbb{N}}$ such that $c_nin I_n$ and $f(c_n)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Then $c_n$ tends to $c$ and, by continuity of $f$, we have that $f(c)in{f(a),f(b)}$. Thus, by continuity, $f$ is constant because it takes values in a discrete space.







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Nov 22 at 23:38

























      answered Nov 22 at 15:54









      Dante Grevino

      90117




      90117












      • @PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
        – Dante Grevino
        Nov 22 at 23:41


















      • @PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
        – Dante Grevino
        Nov 22 at 23:41
















      @PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
      – Dante Grevino
      Nov 22 at 23:41




      @PJTraill Yes, I corrected it.
      – Dante Grevino
      Nov 22 at 23:41










      up vote
      1
      down vote













      The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          The set $D:=f^{-1}(f(a))cup f^{-1}(f(b))$ is closed by continuity of $f$ and dense in $I$ by the special property. Clearly $D$ does not intersect the open set $Isetminus D$. By defnition of dense, this means that $Isetminus D$ is empty. Hence $I=D$. This makes $I$ the union of the two non-empty closed sets $f^{-1}(f(a))$, $f^{-1}(f(b))$. As $I$ is connected, these sets must overlap, which means that $f(a)=f(b)$ and ultimately that $f^{-1}(f(a))=I$, i.e., $f$ is constant.







          share|cite|improve this answer












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          answered Nov 22 at 20:19









          Hagen von Eitzen

          275k21268495




          275k21268495






















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.



              Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.



              The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.



                Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.



                The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
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                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.



                  Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.



                  The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  You need to use intermediate value property of continuous functions.



                  Suppose $f(a) =f(b) $. If $f$ is not constant in $[a, b] $ then there is some value of $f$ which differs from $f(a) =f(b) $ and let's suppose this value $f(c) > f(a) $ (the case $f(c) <f(a) $ is handled in a similar manner). By continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ are greater than $f(a) $. And this contradicts the given hypotheses. Thus $f$ must be a constant function.



                  The case when $f(a) neq f(b) $ leads us to a contradiction as shown next. Let's us assume $f(a) <f(b) $ and choose $k$ such that $f(a) <k<f(b) $. By intermediate value property there is a $cin(a, b) $ for which $f(c) =k$. And by continuity there is an interval of type $[c-delta, c+delta] $ where all values of $f$ lie strictly between $f(a)$ and $f(b) $. This contradiction shows that we must have $f(a) =f(b) $ and as shown earlier the function is constant.







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                  answered Nov 23 at 3:03









                  Paramanand Singh

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