Summa question on his quotation of scripture
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Been reading the Summa and ran across a verse, or maybe translation, that I couldn’t match up. Aquinas quotes Psalm 11:2 several times and I thought it was a typo but I can’t find the text in any version any where in scripture. Could someone elucidate why?
SUMMA THEOLOGICA
First Part (Prima Pars)
Question 16. Truth
SIXTH ARTICLE [I, Q. 16, Art. 6] Whether There Is Only One Truth, According to Which All Things Are True?
Psalm 11: 2, "Truths are decayed from among the children of men," says: "As from one man's face many likenesses are reflected in a mirror, so many truths are reflected from the one divine truth."
summa-theologica
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Been reading the Summa and ran across a verse, or maybe translation, that I couldn’t match up. Aquinas quotes Psalm 11:2 several times and I thought it was a typo but I can’t find the text in any version any where in scripture. Could someone elucidate why?
SUMMA THEOLOGICA
First Part (Prima Pars)
Question 16. Truth
SIXTH ARTICLE [I, Q. 16, Art. 6] Whether There Is Only One Truth, According to Which All Things Are True?
Psalm 11: 2, "Truths are decayed from among the children of men," says: "As from one man's face many likenesses are reflected in a mirror, so many truths are reflected from the one divine truth."
summa-theologica
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Been reading the Summa and ran across a verse, or maybe translation, that I couldn’t match up. Aquinas quotes Psalm 11:2 several times and I thought it was a typo but I can’t find the text in any version any where in scripture. Could someone elucidate why?
SUMMA THEOLOGICA
First Part (Prima Pars)
Question 16. Truth
SIXTH ARTICLE [I, Q. 16, Art. 6] Whether There Is Only One Truth, According to Which All Things Are True?
Psalm 11: 2, "Truths are decayed from among the children of men," says: "As from one man's face many likenesses are reflected in a mirror, so many truths are reflected from the one divine truth."
summa-theologica
Been reading the Summa and ran across a verse, or maybe translation, that I couldn’t match up. Aquinas quotes Psalm 11:2 several times and I thought it was a typo but I can’t find the text in any version any where in scripture. Could someone elucidate why?
SUMMA THEOLOGICA
First Part (Prima Pars)
Question 16. Truth
SIXTH ARTICLE [I, Q. 16, Art. 6] Whether There Is Only One Truth, According to Which All Things Are True?
Psalm 11: 2, "Truths are decayed from among the children of men," says: "As from one man's face many likenesses are reflected in a mirror, so many truths are reflected from the one divine truth."
summa-theologica
summa-theologica
edited 3 hours ago
Geremia
17.6k21951
17.6k21951
asked 6 hours ago
Tonyg
4051410
4051410
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
The older Latin Vulgate Bible, whose 1592 edition became the official Bible of the Church was already by the time of Aquinas the unofficial standard, and it appears this was the translation he used.
As a note on the numbering, Psalm 10 is an acrostic - the verses begin with consecutive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The Vulgate counted this as one psalm; other translations from the Hebrew, including the New Vulgate, broke it into two and numbered the second half as Psalm 11,making the psalm in question Psalm 12.
The passage in the older Vulgate, which would have been that available to Aquinas, runs
Salvum me fac, Domine, quoniam defecit sanctus,
quoniam diminutæ sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
My translation might be
Make me safe [i.e. "Save me"], Lord, for there is no holy one; for truths have been worn down from [perhaps "from among"] the children of men
which is very nearly the quote referenced from the Douay-Rheims Bible and excerpted in your question. The Nova Vulgata, which is the current official Latin version retranslated from Hebrew and Greek, words the passage almost identically, substituting fideles "faithful/the faithful ones" for veritates "truths".
Looking at the Hebrew original, it appears that Jerome translated the Hebrew word אֱ֝מוּנִ֗ים, an adjective, as a noun. Thus instead of "the faithful/loyal/true ones", he gets "the truths".
It appears then that Aquinas' quote doesn't mean exactly what he thinks it does - though his conclusion is still reasonable.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The Douay-Rheims translation of Psalm 11:2b reads
…truths are decayed from among the children of men.
or the Vulgate:
…diminutae sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
which St. Thomas quotes verbatim.
The corresponding verse in the book of Psalms in Moseretic-numbered bibles would be 12:2.
So the answer is the Summa English version is a translation from the Latin? The Hebrew still doesn’t look anything like 11:2 or 12:2
– Tonyg
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "304"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchristianity.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f67622%2fsumma-question-on-his-quotation-of-scripture%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
The older Latin Vulgate Bible, whose 1592 edition became the official Bible of the Church was already by the time of Aquinas the unofficial standard, and it appears this was the translation he used.
As a note on the numbering, Psalm 10 is an acrostic - the verses begin with consecutive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The Vulgate counted this as one psalm; other translations from the Hebrew, including the New Vulgate, broke it into two and numbered the second half as Psalm 11,making the psalm in question Psalm 12.
The passage in the older Vulgate, which would have been that available to Aquinas, runs
Salvum me fac, Domine, quoniam defecit sanctus,
quoniam diminutæ sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
My translation might be
Make me safe [i.e. "Save me"], Lord, for there is no holy one; for truths have been worn down from [perhaps "from among"] the children of men
which is very nearly the quote referenced from the Douay-Rheims Bible and excerpted in your question. The Nova Vulgata, which is the current official Latin version retranslated from Hebrew and Greek, words the passage almost identically, substituting fideles "faithful/the faithful ones" for veritates "truths".
Looking at the Hebrew original, it appears that Jerome translated the Hebrew word אֱ֝מוּנִ֗ים, an adjective, as a noun. Thus instead of "the faithful/loyal/true ones", he gets "the truths".
It appears then that Aquinas' quote doesn't mean exactly what he thinks it does - though his conclusion is still reasonable.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
The older Latin Vulgate Bible, whose 1592 edition became the official Bible of the Church was already by the time of Aquinas the unofficial standard, and it appears this was the translation he used.
As a note on the numbering, Psalm 10 is an acrostic - the verses begin with consecutive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The Vulgate counted this as one psalm; other translations from the Hebrew, including the New Vulgate, broke it into two and numbered the second half as Psalm 11,making the psalm in question Psalm 12.
The passage in the older Vulgate, which would have been that available to Aquinas, runs
Salvum me fac, Domine, quoniam defecit sanctus,
quoniam diminutæ sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
My translation might be
Make me safe [i.e. "Save me"], Lord, for there is no holy one; for truths have been worn down from [perhaps "from among"] the children of men
which is very nearly the quote referenced from the Douay-Rheims Bible and excerpted in your question. The Nova Vulgata, which is the current official Latin version retranslated from Hebrew and Greek, words the passage almost identically, substituting fideles "faithful/the faithful ones" for veritates "truths".
Looking at the Hebrew original, it appears that Jerome translated the Hebrew word אֱ֝מוּנִ֗ים, an adjective, as a noun. Thus instead of "the faithful/loyal/true ones", he gets "the truths".
It appears then that Aquinas' quote doesn't mean exactly what he thinks it does - though his conclusion is still reasonable.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
The older Latin Vulgate Bible, whose 1592 edition became the official Bible of the Church was already by the time of Aquinas the unofficial standard, and it appears this was the translation he used.
As a note on the numbering, Psalm 10 is an acrostic - the verses begin with consecutive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The Vulgate counted this as one psalm; other translations from the Hebrew, including the New Vulgate, broke it into two and numbered the second half as Psalm 11,making the psalm in question Psalm 12.
The passage in the older Vulgate, which would have been that available to Aquinas, runs
Salvum me fac, Domine, quoniam defecit sanctus,
quoniam diminutæ sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
My translation might be
Make me safe [i.e. "Save me"], Lord, for there is no holy one; for truths have been worn down from [perhaps "from among"] the children of men
which is very nearly the quote referenced from the Douay-Rheims Bible and excerpted in your question. The Nova Vulgata, which is the current official Latin version retranslated from Hebrew and Greek, words the passage almost identically, substituting fideles "faithful/the faithful ones" for veritates "truths".
Looking at the Hebrew original, it appears that Jerome translated the Hebrew word אֱ֝מוּנִ֗ים, an adjective, as a noun. Thus instead of "the faithful/loyal/true ones", he gets "the truths".
It appears then that Aquinas' quote doesn't mean exactly what he thinks it does - though his conclusion is still reasonable.
The older Latin Vulgate Bible, whose 1592 edition became the official Bible of the Church was already by the time of Aquinas the unofficial standard, and it appears this was the translation he used.
As a note on the numbering, Psalm 10 is an acrostic - the verses begin with consecutive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The Vulgate counted this as one psalm; other translations from the Hebrew, including the New Vulgate, broke it into two and numbered the second half as Psalm 11,making the psalm in question Psalm 12.
The passage in the older Vulgate, which would have been that available to Aquinas, runs
Salvum me fac, Domine, quoniam defecit sanctus,
quoniam diminutæ sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
My translation might be
Make me safe [i.e. "Save me"], Lord, for there is no holy one; for truths have been worn down from [perhaps "from among"] the children of men
which is very nearly the quote referenced from the Douay-Rheims Bible and excerpted in your question. The Nova Vulgata, which is the current official Latin version retranslated from Hebrew and Greek, words the passage almost identically, substituting fideles "faithful/the faithful ones" for veritates "truths".
Looking at the Hebrew original, it appears that Jerome translated the Hebrew word אֱ֝מוּנִ֗ים, an adjective, as a noun. Thus instead of "the faithful/loyal/true ones", he gets "the truths".
It appears then that Aquinas' quote doesn't mean exactly what he thinks it does - though his conclusion is still reasonable.
answered 2 hours ago
Matt Gutting
16.1k33472
16.1k33472
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The Douay-Rheims translation of Psalm 11:2b reads
…truths are decayed from among the children of men.
or the Vulgate:
…diminutae sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
which St. Thomas quotes verbatim.
The corresponding verse in the book of Psalms in Moseretic-numbered bibles would be 12:2.
So the answer is the Summa English version is a translation from the Latin? The Hebrew still doesn’t look anything like 11:2 or 12:2
– Tonyg
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The Douay-Rheims translation of Psalm 11:2b reads
…truths are decayed from among the children of men.
or the Vulgate:
…diminutae sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
which St. Thomas quotes verbatim.
The corresponding verse in the book of Psalms in Moseretic-numbered bibles would be 12:2.
So the answer is the Summa English version is a translation from the Latin? The Hebrew still doesn’t look anything like 11:2 or 12:2
– Tonyg
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The Douay-Rheims translation of Psalm 11:2b reads
…truths are decayed from among the children of men.
or the Vulgate:
…diminutae sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
which St. Thomas quotes verbatim.
The corresponding verse in the book of Psalms in Moseretic-numbered bibles would be 12:2.
The Douay-Rheims translation of Psalm 11:2b reads
…truths are decayed from among the children of men.
or the Vulgate:
…diminutae sunt veritates a filiis hominum.
which St. Thomas quotes verbatim.
The corresponding verse in the book of Psalms in Moseretic-numbered bibles would be 12:2.
edited 3 hours ago
Geremia
17.6k21951
17.6k21951
answered 5 hours ago
Andreas Blass
1,81769
1,81769
So the answer is the Summa English version is a translation from the Latin? The Hebrew still doesn’t look anything like 11:2 or 12:2
– Tonyg
5 hours ago
add a comment |
So the answer is the Summa English version is a translation from the Latin? The Hebrew still doesn’t look anything like 11:2 or 12:2
– Tonyg
5 hours ago
So the answer is the Summa English version is a translation from the Latin? The Hebrew still doesn’t look anything like 11:2 or 12:2
– Tonyg
5 hours ago
So the answer is the Summa English version is a translation from the Latin? The Hebrew still doesn’t look anything like 11:2 or 12:2
– Tonyg
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Christianity Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchristianity.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f67622%2fsumma-question-on-his-quotation-of-scripture%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown