Connection between the spectra of a family of matrices and a modelization of particles' scattering?











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In the excellent book "Numerical Computing with MATLAB" by Cleve B. Moler (SIAM 2004), [Moler is the "father" of Matlab], one finds, on pages 298-299, the following graphical representation (I have reconstructed it making minor changes : Matlab program below) with the following explanations (personal adaptation of the text):



Let $n$ be a fixed integer $>1$. Let $tin (0,1)$, and let $A_t$ be the matrix with entries



$$A_{t,i,j}=dfrac{1}{i-j+t}$$



Fig. 1 gathers the spectra of matrices $A_t$, for $n=11$, and $0.1 leq t leq 0.9$ with values of $t$ increased by steps $Delta t=0.005$.



enter image description here



Figure 1. Interpretation : the 11 rightmost points correspond to the spectrum of matrix $A_t$ for $t=0.1$.



The similarity with particles' scattering by a nucleus situated at the origin and their hyperbolic trajectories is striking ; see for example this



Thus, my question is this one : can somebody indicate a model of particle scattering using this type of matrices ?



My thoughts : could these (Toeplitz) matrices be associated with a quadratic form defined by its moment's matrix $int_C z^{i}bar{z}^{j}z^{t-1}dz$ but for which curve $C$, $z^{t-1}$ playing the rôle of a weight function, and what can be done afterwards ? I have also attempted to prove without success that the points are situated on curves likely to be hyperbolas...



Matlab program for Fig. 1 :



 clear all;close all;hold on;axis equal
n=11;
[I,J]=meshgrid(1:n,1:n);
E=;
for t=0.1:0.005:0.9
A=1./(I-J+t);
E=[E,eig(A)];
end;
plot(E,'.k');


Addendum (November 22, 2018) : Here is a second figure that provides a "bigger" view, with $n=20$ and $0.005 leq t leq 0.995$. The eigenvalues corresponding




  • to $t=0.005$ are grouped into the rightmost big red blob on the right,


  • to $t=0.995$ are blue filled dots (quasi-circle with radius $approx 110$).



enter image description here



_Figure 2 : [enlarged version of Fig. 1 ; case $n=15$] Everything happens as if a planar wave enters at $t=0$ from the right, is slowed down by the repulsive effect of the nucleus, then scattered by it as a circular wave..._



enter image description here



Fig. 3 : Two cases are gathered here : $n=51$ (empty circles) and $n=100$ (stars), both for $t=0.995$. One can note that the eigenvalues are very close from being $(n+1)$-th roots of unity except one. For this value of $t$, the radii are given by experimental formula : $R_n=200(1-12.4/n+212/n^2-3110/n^3)$.



Following the precious remarks of @AmbretteOrrisey who gave the following polar representation for the trajectory of particles : [citation follows ; more details can be found in his/her answer]
"The polar equation of the trajectory of a particle being deflected by a point charge is



$$r=frac{2a^2}{sqrt{b^2+4a^2}sintheta -b}$$



where $a$ is the impact parameter which is the closest approach to the nucleus were the path undeviated; $b$ is the closest approach of a head-on ( $a=0$) particle with repulsion operating."



Figure 4 displays a reconstruction result that takes into account the fact that (n+1)th roots of unity give asymptotic directions.



enter image description here



Figure 4 : Case $n=201$ : An approximate reconstruction of 21 trajectories among the $n$ trajectories (Matlab program below ; polar equation can be seen on line 5). Note the "ad hoc" coefficient $3.0592$...



 n=201;
for k=1:20:n
d=pi*k/(2*(n+1));c=cos(d);
t=-d+0.01:0.01:d-0.01;
r=3.0592*(1-c)*exp(i*(t-d))./(cos(t)-c);
plot(r);plot(conj(r));
end;









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    up vote
    6
    down vote

    favorite
    2












    In the excellent book "Numerical Computing with MATLAB" by Cleve B. Moler (SIAM 2004), [Moler is the "father" of Matlab], one finds, on pages 298-299, the following graphical representation (I have reconstructed it making minor changes : Matlab program below) with the following explanations (personal adaptation of the text):



    Let $n$ be a fixed integer $>1$. Let $tin (0,1)$, and let $A_t$ be the matrix with entries



    $$A_{t,i,j}=dfrac{1}{i-j+t}$$



    Fig. 1 gathers the spectra of matrices $A_t$, for $n=11$, and $0.1 leq t leq 0.9$ with values of $t$ increased by steps $Delta t=0.005$.



    enter image description here



    Figure 1. Interpretation : the 11 rightmost points correspond to the spectrum of matrix $A_t$ for $t=0.1$.



    The similarity with particles' scattering by a nucleus situated at the origin and their hyperbolic trajectories is striking ; see for example this



    Thus, my question is this one : can somebody indicate a model of particle scattering using this type of matrices ?



    My thoughts : could these (Toeplitz) matrices be associated with a quadratic form defined by its moment's matrix $int_C z^{i}bar{z}^{j}z^{t-1}dz$ but for which curve $C$, $z^{t-1}$ playing the rôle of a weight function, and what can be done afterwards ? I have also attempted to prove without success that the points are situated on curves likely to be hyperbolas...



    Matlab program for Fig. 1 :



     clear all;close all;hold on;axis equal
    n=11;
    [I,J]=meshgrid(1:n,1:n);
    E=;
    for t=0.1:0.005:0.9
    A=1./(I-J+t);
    E=[E,eig(A)];
    end;
    plot(E,'.k');


    Addendum (November 22, 2018) : Here is a second figure that provides a "bigger" view, with $n=20$ and $0.005 leq t leq 0.995$. The eigenvalues corresponding




    • to $t=0.005$ are grouped into the rightmost big red blob on the right,


    • to $t=0.995$ are blue filled dots (quasi-circle with radius $approx 110$).



    enter image description here



    _Figure 2 : [enlarged version of Fig. 1 ; case $n=15$] Everything happens as if a planar wave enters at $t=0$ from the right, is slowed down by the repulsive effect of the nucleus, then scattered by it as a circular wave..._



    enter image description here



    Fig. 3 : Two cases are gathered here : $n=51$ (empty circles) and $n=100$ (stars), both for $t=0.995$. One can note that the eigenvalues are very close from being $(n+1)$-th roots of unity except one. For this value of $t$, the radii are given by experimental formula : $R_n=200(1-12.4/n+212/n^2-3110/n^3)$.



    Following the precious remarks of @AmbretteOrrisey who gave the following polar representation for the trajectory of particles : [citation follows ; more details can be found in his/her answer]
    "The polar equation of the trajectory of a particle being deflected by a point charge is



    $$r=frac{2a^2}{sqrt{b^2+4a^2}sintheta -b}$$



    where $a$ is the impact parameter which is the closest approach to the nucleus were the path undeviated; $b$ is the closest approach of a head-on ( $a=0$) particle with repulsion operating."



    Figure 4 displays a reconstruction result that takes into account the fact that (n+1)th roots of unity give asymptotic directions.



    enter image description here



    Figure 4 : Case $n=201$ : An approximate reconstruction of 21 trajectories among the $n$ trajectories (Matlab program below ; polar equation can be seen on line 5). Note the "ad hoc" coefficient $3.0592$...



     n=201;
    for k=1:20:n
    d=pi*k/(2*(n+1));c=cos(d);
    t=-d+0.01:0.01:d-0.01;
    r=3.0592*(1-c)*exp(i*(t-d))./(cos(t)-c);
    plot(r);plot(conj(r));
    end;









    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      6
      down vote

      favorite
      2









      up vote
      6
      down vote

      favorite
      2






      2





      In the excellent book "Numerical Computing with MATLAB" by Cleve B. Moler (SIAM 2004), [Moler is the "father" of Matlab], one finds, on pages 298-299, the following graphical representation (I have reconstructed it making minor changes : Matlab program below) with the following explanations (personal adaptation of the text):



      Let $n$ be a fixed integer $>1$. Let $tin (0,1)$, and let $A_t$ be the matrix with entries



      $$A_{t,i,j}=dfrac{1}{i-j+t}$$



      Fig. 1 gathers the spectra of matrices $A_t$, for $n=11$, and $0.1 leq t leq 0.9$ with values of $t$ increased by steps $Delta t=0.005$.



      enter image description here



      Figure 1. Interpretation : the 11 rightmost points correspond to the spectrum of matrix $A_t$ for $t=0.1$.



      The similarity with particles' scattering by a nucleus situated at the origin and their hyperbolic trajectories is striking ; see for example this



      Thus, my question is this one : can somebody indicate a model of particle scattering using this type of matrices ?



      My thoughts : could these (Toeplitz) matrices be associated with a quadratic form defined by its moment's matrix $int_C z^{i}bar{z}^{j}z^{t-1}dz$ but for which curve $C$, $z^{t-1}$ playing the rôle of a weight function, and what can be done afterwards ? I have also attempted to prove without success that the points are situated on curves likely to be hyperbolas...



      Matlab program for Fig. 1 :



       clear all;close all;hold on;axis equal
      n=11;
      [I,J]=meshgrid(1:n,1:n);
      E=;
      for t=0.1:0.005:0.9
      A=1./(I-J+t);
      E=[E,eig(A)];
      end;
      plot(E,'.k');


      Addendum (November 22, 2018) : Here is a second figure that provides a "bigger" view, with $n=20$ and $0.005 leq t leq 0.995$. The eigenvalues corresponding




      • to $t=0.005$ are grouped into the rightmost big red blob on the right,


      • to $t=0.995$ are blue filled dots (quasi-circle with radius $approx 110$).



      enter image description here



      _Figure 2 : [enlarged version of Fig. 1 ; case $n=15$] Everything happens as if a planar wave enters at $t=0$ from the right, is slowed down by the repulsive effect of the nucleus, then scattered by it as a circular wave..._



      enter image description here



      Fig. 3 : Two cases are gathered here : $n=51$ (empty circles) and $n=100$ (stars), both for $t=0.995$. One can note that the eigenvalues are very close from being $(n+1)$-th roots of unity except one. For this value of $t$, the radii are given by experimental formula : $R_n=200(1-12.4/n+212/n^2-3110/n^3)$.



      Following the precious remarks of @AmbretteOrrisey who gave the following polar representation for the trajectory of particles : [citation follows ; more details can be found in his/her answer]
      "The polar equation of the trajectory of a particle being deflected by a point charge is



      $$r=frac{2a^2}{sqrt{b^2+4a^2}sintheta -b}$$



      where $a$ is the impact parameter which is the closest approach to the nucleus were the path undeviated; $b$ is the closest approach of a head-on ( $a=0$) particle with repulsion operating."



      Figure 4 displays a reconstruction result that takes into account the fact that (n+1)th roots of unity give asymptotic directions.



      enter image description here



      Figure 4 : Case $n=201$ : An approximate reconstruction of 21 trajectories among the $n$ trajectories (Matlab program below ; polar equation can be seen on line 5). Note the "ad hoc" coefficient $3.0592$...



       n=201;
      for k=1:20:n
      d=pi*k/(2*(n+1));c=cos(d);
      t=-d+0.01:0.01:d-0.01;
      r=3.0592*(1-c)*exp(i*(t-d))./(cos(t)-c);
      plot(r);plot(conj(r));
      end;









      share|cite|improve this question















      In the excellent book "Numerical Computing with MATLAB" by Cleve B. Moler (SIAM 2004), [Moler is the "father" of Matlab], one finds, on pages 298-299, the following graphical representation (I have reconstructed it making minor changes : Matlab program below) with the following explanations (personal adaptation of the text):



      Let $n$ be a fixed integer $>1$. Let $tin (0,1)$, and let $A_t$ be the matrix with entries



      $$A_{t,i,j}=dfrac{1}{i-j+t}$$



      Fig. 1 gathers the spectra of matrices $A_t$, for $n=11$, and $0.1 leq t leq 0.9$ with values of $t$ increased by steps $Delta t=0.005$.



      enter image description here



      Figure 1. Interpretation : the 11 rightmost points correspond to the spectrum of matrix $A_t$ for $t=0.1$.



      The similarity with particles' scattering by a nucleus situated at the origin and their hyperbolic trajectories is striking ; see for example this



      Thus, my question is this one : can somebody indicate a model of particle scattering using this type of matrices ?



      My thoughts : could these (Toeplitz) matrices be associated with a quadratic form defined by its moment's matrix $int_C z^{i}bar{z}^{j}z^{t-1}dz$ but for which curve $C$, $z^{t-1}$ playing the rôle of a weight function, and what can be done afterwards ? I have also attempted to prove without success that the points are situated on curves likely to be hyperbolas...



      Matlab program for Fig. 1 :



       clear all;close all;hold on;axis equal
      n=11;
      [I,J]=meshgrid(1:n,1:n);
      E=;
      for t=0.1:0.005:0.9
      A=1./(I-J+t);
      E=[E,eig(A)];
      end;
      plot(E,'.k');


      Addendum (November 22, 2018) : Here is a second figure that provides a "bigger" view, with $n=20$ and $0.005 leq t leq 0.995$. The eigenvalues corresponding




      • to $t=0.005$ are grouped into the rightmost big red blob on the right,


      • to $t=0.995$ are blue filled dots (quasi-circle with radius $approx 110$).



      enter image description here



      _Figure 2 : [enlarged version of Fig. 1 ; case $n=15$] Everything happens as if a planar wave enters at $t=0$ from the right, is slowed down by the repulsive effect of the nucleus, then scattered by it as a circular wave..._



      enter image description here



      Fig. 3 : Two cases are gathered here : $n=51$ (empty circles) and $n=100$ (stars), both for $t=0.995$. One can note that the eigenvalues are very close from being $(n+1)$-th roots of unity except one. For this value of $t$, the radii are given by experimental formula : $R_n=200(1-12.4/n+212/n^2-3110/n^3)$.



      Following the precious remarks of @AmbretteOrrisey who gave the following polar representation for the trajectory of particles : [citation follows ; more details can be found in his/her answer]
      "The polar equation of the trajectory of a particle being deflected by a point charge is



      $$r=frac{2a^2}{sqrt{b^2+4a^2}sintheta -b}$$



      where $a$ is the impact parameter which is the closest approach to the nucleus were the path undeviated; $b$ is the closest approach of a head-on ( $a=0$) particle with repulsion operating."



      Figure 4 displays a reconstruction result that takes into account the fact that (n+1)th roots of unity give asymptotic directions.



      enter image description here



      Figure 4 : Case $n=201$ : An approximate reconstruction of 21 trajectories among the $n$ trajectories (Matlab program below ; polar equation can be seen on line 5). Note the "ad hoc" coefficient $3.0592$...



       n=201;
      for k=1:20:n
      d=pi*k/(2*(n+1));c=cos(d);
      t=-d+0.01:0.01:d-0.01;
      r=3.0592*(1-c)*exp(i*(t-d))./(cos(t)-c);
      plot(r);plot(conj(r));
      end;






      linear-algebra eigenvalues-eigenvectors mathematical-physics






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      edited Nov 26 at 10:22

























      asked Aug 7 '16 at 20:34









      Jean Marie

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          I'm don't think the curves would be hyoerbolæ anyway if it were a model for classical scattering.



          The polar equation of the particle being deflected by a point charge is



          $$r=frac{2a^2}{sqrt{b^2+4a^2}sintheta -b}$$



          where $a$ is the impact parameter which is the closest approach to the nucleus were the path undeviated; $b$ is the closest approach of a head-on ( $a=0$) particle with repulsion operating, and $theta$ is the angle between the radius vector of the particle (nucleus at origin) and the line joining the nucleus to point of closest approach with charge in place (not the axis of approach - ie the line through the nucleus that particle is moving parallel to & distance $a$ from when it is yet infinite distance away).



          Is that a polar coördinate representation of a hyperbola? I suppose it ought to be, as it is an inverse-square force!



          Anyway - it's likely I'll look into it will-I-nill-I, now.



          Oh ... the diæræsis in "coördinate" & the ligature in "diæræsis" ... I'm hoping you don't mind that archaïck stuff too much - I love it ... but many would probably go ballistic if I used that kind of idiom more generally on here. They even complain about my italics & emphasis! The diæræsis over the second vowel in a conjunction of vowels was a device used to denote that the conjunction does not form a diphthong. It never was actually a very widely-used convention!






          share|cite|improve this answer



















          • 1




            No! that's it! θ is the angle the radiusvector of the particle makes with a line at a right angle to the line joining the nucleus (origin) to the point of closest approach, ie the direction of motion of the particle at it's point of closest aporoach. Coz the distance of closest aporoach is (b+√(b^2+4a^2))/2. That's why it's better really changing it to formulation in terms of cosine; but the integral in Gradsteyn & Ryzhik is in terms of sine. It's coming back now. Comments don't bump posts ... do they!?
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 12:55








          • 1




            No they don't, fortunately. Yes of course it's a hyperbola - I rembember now from celestial mechanics - a planet's orbit is 1/(1+ε.cosθ) with ε the eccentricity of the orbit (& scaled appropriately of course). So where were we - you wanted to prove that the curves in your graph are hyperbolæ, but couldn't. Please don't rely on my being able to do so - you've seen just now what kind of gaps & lapses I can be afflicted with. But I'll have a look ... and I shall, too, as this has indeed caught my interest ... you never know - I might get an inspiration!
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 13:25






          • 1




            Couple of questions: do the curves go off to ∞ in their respective directions as t tends to the limits of its range; and as t tends to 0 is it -π to +π that the imaginary parts extend over? ... kind of looks like it.
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 14:11






          • 1




            I think it's quite likely they are an abalogue of scattering, TBPH. Even this wave interpretation that's used for calculating the scattering by a point with a Yukawa potential: what you've shown here is reminiscent of that. You have y
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:52






          • 1




            to use the wave method with a Yukawa potential: if you try to do it classically you get an integral that's intractable - I've 'farmed it out' on here and the consensus seems to be that it is intractable. So all it needs, then is for the 'trajectories of the solutions in rhe complex plane to be hyperbolæ with focus all at the same point. That's not really a great deal to ask ... & I have a hunch they are that. So maybe scattdring could be gorm
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:58











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          up vote
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          I'm don't think the curves would be hyoerbolæ anyway if it were a model for classical scattering.



          The polar equation of the particle being deflected by a point charge is



          $$r=frac{2a^2}{sqrt{b^2+4a^2}sintheta -b}$$



          where $a$ is the impact parameter which is the closest approach to the nucleus were the path undeviated; $b$ is the closest approach of a head-on ( $a=0$) particle with repulsion operating, and $theta$ is the angle between the radius vector of the particle (nucleus at origin) and the line joining the nucleus to point of closest approach with charge in place (not the axis of approach - ie the line through the nucleus that particle is moving parallel to & distance $a$ from when it is yet infinite distance away).



          Is that a polar coördinate representation of a hyperbola? I suppose it ought to be, as it is an inverse-square force!



          Anyway - it's likely I'll look into it will-I-nill-I, now.



          Oh ... the diæræsis in "coördinate" & the ligature in "diæræsis" ... I'm hoping you don't mind that archaïck stuff too much - I love it ... but many would probably go ballistic if I used that kind of idiom more generally on here. They even complain about my italics & emphasis! The diæræsis over the second vowel in a conjunction of vowels was a device used to denote that the conjunction does not form a diphthong. It never was actually a very widely-used convention!






          share|cite|improve this answer



















          • 1




            No! that's it! θ is the angle the radiusvector of the particle makes with a line at a right angle to the line joining the nucleus (origin) to the point of closest approach, ie the direction of motion of the particle at it's point of closest aporoach. Coz the distance of closest aporoach is (b+√(b^2+4a^2))/2. That's why it's better really changing it to formulation in terms of cosine; but the integral in Gradsteyn & Ryzhik is in terms of sine. It's coming back now. Comments don't bump posts ... do they!?
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 12:55








          • 1




            No they don't, fortunately. Yes of course it's a hyperbola - I rembember now from celestial mechanics - a planet's orbit is 1/(1+ε.cosθ) with ε the eccentricity of the orbit (& scaled appropriately of course). So where were we - you wanted to prove that the curves in your graph are hyperbolæ, but couldn't. Please don't rely on my being able to do so - you've seen just now what kind of gaps & lapses I can be afflicted with. But I'll have a look ... and I shall, too, as this has indeed caught my interest ... you never know - I might get an inspiration!
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 13:25






          • 1




            Couple of questions: do the curves go off to ∞ in their respective directions as t tends to the limits of its range; and as t tends to 0 is it -π to +π that the imaginary parts extend over? ... kind of looks like it.
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 14:11






          • 1




            I think it's quite likely they are an abalogue of scattering, TBPH. Even this wave interpretation that's used for calculating the scattering by a point with a Yukawa potential: what you've shown here is reminiscent of that. You have y
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:52






          • 1




            to use the wave method with a Yukawa potential: if you try to do it classically you get an integral that's intractable - I've 'farmed it out' on here and the consensus seems to be that it is intractable. So all it needs, then is for the 'trajectories of the solutions in rhe complex plane to be hyperbolæ with focus all at the same point. That's not really a great deal to ask ... & I have a hunch they are that. So maybe scattdring could be gorm
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:58















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          I'm don't think the curves would be hyoerbolæ anyway if it were a model for classical scattering.



          The polar equation of the particle being deflected by a point charge is



          $$r=frac{2a^2}{sqrt{b^2+4a^2}sintheta -b}$$



          where $a$ is the impact parameter which is the closest approach to the nucleus were the path undeviated; $b$ is the closest approach of a head-on ( $a=0$) particle with repulsion operating, and $theta$ is the angle between the radius vector of the particle (nucleus at origin) and the line joining the nucleus to point of closest approach with charge in place (not the axis of approach - ie the line through the nucleus that particle is moving parallel to & distance $a$ from when it is yet infinite distance away).



          Is that a polar coördinate representation of a hyperbola? I suppose it ought to be, as it is an inverse-square force!



          Anyway - it's likely I'll look into it will-I-nill-I, now.



          Oh ... the diæræsis in "coördinate" & the ligature in "diæræsis" ... I'm hoping you don't mind that archaïck stuff too much - I love it ... but many would probably go ballistic if I used that kind of idiom more generally on here. They even complain about my italics & emphasis! The diæræsis over the second vowel in a conjunction of vowels was a device used to denote that the conjunction does not form a diphthong. It never was actually a very widely-used convention!






          share|cite|improve this answer



















          • 1




            No! that's it! θ is the angle the radiusvector of the particle makes with a line at a right angle to the line joining the nucleus (origin) to the point of closest approach, ie the direction of motion of the particle at it's point of closest aporoach. Coz the distance of closest aporoach is (b+√(b^2+4a^2))/2. That's why it's better really changing it to formulation in terms of cosine; but the integral in Gradsteyn & Ryzhik is in terms of sine. It's coming back now. Comments don't bump posts ... do they!?
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 12:55








          • 1




            No they don't, fortunately. Yes of course it's a hyperbola - I rembember now from celestial mechanics - a planet's orbit is 1/(1+ε.cosθ) with ε the eccentricity of the orbit (& scaled appropriately of course). So where were we - you wanted to prove that the curves in your graph are hyperbolæ, but couldn't. Please don't rely on my being able to do so - you've seen just now what kind of gaps & lapses I can be afflicted with. But I'll have a look ... and I shall, too, as this has indeed caught my interest ... you never know - I might get an inspiration!
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 13:25






          • 1




            Couple of questions: do the curves go off to ∞ in their respective directions as t tends to the limits of its range; and as t tends to 0 is it -π to +π that the imaginary parts extend over? ... kind of looks like it.
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 14:11






          • 1




            I think it's quite likely they are an abalogue of scattering, TBPH. Even this wave interpretation that's used for calculating the scattering by a point with a Yukawa potential: what you've shown here is reminiscent of that. You have y
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:52






          • 1




            to use the wave method with a Yukawa potential: if you try to do it classically you get an integral that's intractable - I've 'farmed it out' on here and the consensus seems to be that it is intractable. So all it needs, then is for the 'trajectories of the solutions in rhe complex plane to be hyperbolæ with focus all at the same point. That's not really a great deal to ask ... & I have a hunch they are that. So maybe scattdring could be gorm
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:58













          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          I'm don't think the curves would be hyoerbolæ anyway if it were a model for classical scattering.



          The polar equation of the particle being deflected by a point charge is



          $$r=frac{2a^2}{sqrt{b^2+4a^2}sintheta -b}$$



          where $a$ is the impact parameter which is the closest approach to the nucleus were the path undeviated; $b$ is the closest approach of a head-on ( $a=0$) particle with repulsion operating, and $theta$ is the angle between the radius vector of the particle (nucleus at origin) and the line joining the nucleus to point of closest approach with charge in place (not the axis of approach - ie the line through the nucleus that particle is moving parallel to & distance $a$ from when it is yet infinite distance away).



          Is that a polar coördinate representation of a hyperbola? I suppose it ought to be, as it is an inverse-square force!



          Anyway - it's likely I'll look into it will-I-nill-I, now.



          Oh ... the diæræsis in "coördinate" & the ligature in "diæræsis" ... I'm hoping you don't mind that archaïck stuff too much - I love it ... but many would probably go ballistic if I used that kind of idiom more generally on here. They even complain about my italics & emphasis! The diæræsis over the second vowel in a conjunction of vowels was a device used to denote that the conjunction does not form a diphthong. It never was actually a very widely-used convention!






          share|cite|improve this answer














          I'm don't think the curves would be hyoerbolæ anyway if it were a model for classical scattering.



          The polar equation of the particle being deflected by a point charge is



          $$r=frac{2a^2}{sqrt{b^2+4a^2}sintheta -b}$$



          where $a$ is the impact parameter which is the closest approach to the nucleus were the path undeviated; $b$ is the closest approach of a head-on ( $a=0$) particle with repulsion operating, and $theta$ is the angle between the radius vector of the particle (nucleus at origin) and the line joining the nucleus to point of closest approach with charge in place (not the axis of approach - ie the line through the nucleus that particle is moving parallel to & distance $a$ from when it is yet infinite distance away).



          Is that a polar coördinate representation of a hyperbola? I suppose it ought to be, as it is an inverse-square force!



          Anyway - it's likely I'll look into it will-I-nill-I, now.



          Oh ... the diæræsis in "coördinate" & the ligature in "diæræsis" ... I'm hoping you don't mind that archaïck stuff too much - I love it ... but many would probably go ballistic if I used that kind of idiom more generally on here. They even complain about my italics & emphasis! The diæræsis over the second vowel in a conjunction of vowels was a device used to denote that the conjunction does not form a diphthong. It never was actually a very widely-used convention!







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Nov 23 at 6:26









          Jean Marie

          28.6k41849




          28.6k41849










          answered Nov 22 at 11:54









          AmbretteOrrisey

          51110




          51110








          • 1




            No! that's it! θ is the angle the radiusvector of the particle makes with a line at a right angle to the line joining the nucleus (origin) to the point of closest approach, ie the direction of motion of the particle at it's point of closest aporoach. Coz the distance of closest aporoach is (b+√(b^2+4a^2))/2. That's why it's better really changing it to formulation in terms of cosine; but the integral in Gradsteyn & Ryzhik is in terms of sine. It's coming back now. Comments don't bump posts ... do they!?
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 12:55








          • 1




            No they don't, fortunately. Yes of course it's a hyperbola - I rembember now from celestial mechanics - a planet's orbit is 1/(1+ε.cosθ) with ε the eccentricity of the orbit (& scaled appropriately of course). So where were we - you wanted to prove that the curves in your graph are hyperbolæ, but couldn't. Please don't rely on my being able to do so - you've seen just now what kind of gaps & lapses I can be afflicted with. But I'll have a look ... and I shall, too, as this has indeed caught my interest ... you never know - I might get an inspiration!
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 13:25






          • 1




            Couple of questions: do the curves go off to ∞ in their respective directions as t tends to the limits of its range; and as t tends to 0 is it -π to +π that the imaginary parts extend over? ... kind of looks like it.
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 14:11






          • 1




            I think it's quite likely they are an abalogue of scattering, TBPH. Even this wave interpretation that's used for calculating the scattering by a point with a Yukawa potential: what you've shown here is reminiscent of that. You have y
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:52






          • 1




            to use the wave method with a Yukawa potential: if you try to do it classically you get an integral that's intractable - I've 'farmed it out' on here and the consensus seems to be that it is intractable. So all it needs, then is for the 'trajectories of the solutions in rhe complex plane to be hyperbolæ with focus all at the same point. That's not really a great deal to ask ... & I have a hunch they are that. So maybe scattdring could be gorm
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:58














          • 1




            No! that's it! θ is the angle the radiusvector of the particle makes with a line at a right angle to the line joining the nucleus (origin) to the point of closest approach, ie the direction of motion of the particle at it's point of closest aporoach. Coz the distance of closest aporoach is (b+√(b^2+4a^2))/2. That's why it's better really changing it to formulation in terms of cosine; but the integral in Gradsteyn & Ryzhik is in terms of sine. It's coming back now. Comments don't bump posts ... do they!?
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 12:55








          • 1




            No they don't, fortunately. Yes of course it's a hyperbola - I rembember now from celestial mechanics - a planet's orbit is 1/(1+ε.cosθ) with ε the eccentricity of the orbit (& scaled appropriately of course). So where were we - you wanted to prove that the curves in your graph are hyperbolæ, but couldn't. Please don't rely on my being able to do so - you've seen just now what kind of gaps & lapses I can be afflicted with. But I'll have a look ... and I shall, too, as this has indeed caught my interest ... you never know - I might get an inspiration!
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 13:25






          • 1




            Couple of questions: do the curves go off to ∞ in their respective directions as t tends to the limits of its range; and as t tends to 0 is it -π to +π that the imaginary parts extend over? ... kind of looks like it.
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 14:11






          • 1




            I think it's quite likely they are an abalogue of scattering, TBPH. Even this wave interpretation that's used for calculating the scattering by a point with a Yukawa potential: what you've shown here is reminiscent of that. You have y
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:52






          • 1




            to use the wave method with a Yukawa potential: if you try to do it classically you get an integral that's intractable - I've 'farmed it out' on here and the consensus seems to be that it is intractable. So all it needs, then is for the 'trajectories of the solutions in rhe complex plane to be hyperbolæ with focus all at the same point. That's not really a great deal to ask ... & I have a hunch they are that. So maybe scattdring could be gorm
            – AmbretteOrrisey
            Nov 22 at 15:58








          1




          1




          No! that's it! θ is the angle the radiusvector of the particle makes with a line at a right angle to the line joining the nucleus (origin) to the point of closest approach, ie the direction of motion of the particle at it's point of closest aporoach. Coz the distance of closest aporoach is (b+√(b^2+4a^2))/2. That's why it's better really changing it to formulation in terms of cosine; but the integral in Gradsteyn & Ryzhik is in terms of sine. It's coming back now. Comments don't bump posts ... do they!?
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 12:55






          No! that's it! θ is the angle the radiusvector of the particle makes with a line at a right angle to the line joining the nucleus (origin) to the point of closest approach, ie the direction of motion of the particle at it's point of closest aporoach. Coz the distance of closest aporoach is (b+√(b^2+4a^2))/2. That's why it's better really changing it to formulation in terms of cosine; but the integral in Gradsteyn & Ryzhik is in terms of sine. It's coming back now. Comments don't bump posts ... do they!?
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 12:55






          1




          1




          No they don't, fortunately. Yes of course it's a hyperbola - I rembember now from celestial mechanics - a planet's orbit is 1/(1+ε.cosθ) with ε the eccentricity of the orbit (& scaled appropriately of course). So where were we - you wanted to prove that the curves in your graph are hyperbolæ, but couldn't. Please don't rely on my being able to do so - you've seen just now what kind of gaps & lapses I can be afflicted with. But I'll have a look ... and I shall, too, as this has indeed caught my interest ... you never know - I might get an inspiration!
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 13:25




          No they don't, fortunately. Yes of course it's a hyperbola - I rembember now from celestial mechanics - a planet's orbit is 1/(1+ε.cosθ) with ε the eccentricity of the orbit (& scaled appropriately of course). So where were we - you wanted to prove that the curves in your graph are hyperbolæ, but couldn't. Please don't rely on my being able to do so - you've seen just now what kind of gaps & lapses I can be afflicted with. But I'll have a look ... and I shall, too, as this has indeed caught my interest ... you never know - I might get an inspiration!
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 13:25




          1




          1




          Couple of questions: do the curves go off to ∞ in their respective directions as t tends to the limits of its range; and as t tends to 0 is it -π to +π that the imaginary parts extend over? ... kind of looks like it.
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 14:11




          Couple of questions: do the curves go off to ∞ in their respective directions as t tends to the limits of its range; and as t tends to 0 is it -π to +π that the imaginary parts extend over? ... kind of looks like it.
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 14:11




          1




          1




          I think it's quite likely they are an abalogue of scattering, TBPH. Even this wave interpretation that's used for calculating the scattering by a point with a Yukawa potential: what you've shown here is reminiscent of that. You have y
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 15:52




          I think it's quite likely they are an abalogue of scattering, TBPH. Even this wave interpretation that's used for calculating the scattering by a point with a Yukawa potential: what you've shown here is reminiscent of that. You have y
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 15:52




          1




          1




          to use the wave method with a Yukawa potential: if you try to do it classically you get an integral that's intractable - I've 'farmed it out' on here and the consensus seems to be that it is intractable. So all it needs, then is for the 'trajectories of the solutions in rhe complex plane to be hyperbolæ with focus all at the same point. That's not really a great deal to ask ... & I have a hunch they are that. So maybe scattdring could be gorm
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 15:58




          to use the wave method with a Yukawa potential: if you try to do it classically you get an integral that's intractable - I've 'farmed it out' on here and the consensus seems to be that it is intractable. So all it needs, then is for the 'trajectories of the solutions in rhe complex plane to be hyperbolæ with focus all at the same point. That's not really a great deal to ask ... & I have a hunch they are that. So maybe scattdring could be gorm
          – AmbretteOrrisey
          Nov 22 at 15:58


















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