Alphabet size affects complexity of written ideas?











up vote
1
down vote

favorite












Do relatively simple alphabets (Rotokas, Hawaiian) limit the complexity of written ideas? Example: could Rotokas be used to write a technical manual for the space shuttle?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Chris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 3




    English has only 26 letters, while Chinese or Japanese needs a thousand just for basic communication. How could English speakers build a space shuttle? Their writing system is too simple for that!
    – jick
    7 hours ago










  • For more, see this question and my answer.
    – Luke Sawczak
    4 hours ago

















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












Do relatively simple alphabets (Rotokas, Hawaiian) limit the complexity of written ideas? Example: could Rotokas be used to write a technical manual for the space shuttle?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Chris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 3




    English has only 26 letters, while Chinese or Japanese needs a thousand just for basic communication. How could English speakers build a space shuttle? Their writing system is too simple for that!
    – jick
    7 hours ago










  • For more, see this question and my answer.
    – Luke Sawczak
    4 hours ago















up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











Do relatively simple alphabets (Rotokas, Hawaiian) limit the complexity of written ideas? Example: could Rotokas be used to write a technical manual for the space shuttle?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Chris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











Do relatively simple alphabets (Rotokas, Hawaiian) limit the complexity of written ideas? Example: could Rotokas be used to write a technical manual for the space shuttle?







written-language writing-systems alphabets






share|improve this question









New contributor




Chris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Chris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 9 hours ago









Riker

19213




19213






New contributor




Chris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 10 hours ago









Chris

91




91




New contributor




Chris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Chris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Chris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 3




    English has only 26 letters, while Chinese or Japanese needs a thousand just for basic communication. How could English speakers build a space shuttle? Their writing system is too simple for that!
    – jick
    7 hours ago










  • For more, see this question and my answer.
    – Luke Sawczak
    4 hours ago
















  • 3




    English has only 26 letters, while Chinese or Japanese needs a thousand just for basic communication. How could English speakers build a space shuttle? Their writing system is too simple for that!
    – jick
    7 hours ago










  • For more, see this question and my answer.
    – Luke Sawczak
    4 hours ago










3




3




English has only 26 letters, while Chinese or Japanese needs a thousand just for basic communication. How could English speakers build a space shuttle? Their writing system is too simple for that!
– jick
7 hours ago




English has only 26 letters, while Chinese or Japanese needs a thousand just for basic communication. How could English speakers build a space shuttle? Their writing system is too simple for that!
– jick
7 hours ago












For more, see this question and my answer.
– Luke Sawczak
4 hours ago






For more, see this question and my answer.
– Luke Sawczak
4 hours ago












3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote













Simple writing systems for languages with simple and small phoneme inventories are a perfect match - such writing systems could convey anything which the language can say, and are very suitable for highly complex technical manuals (though the language may need to borrow many technical words.)



If any writing systems are less ideal for technical manuals I would guess that it would be the hieroglyphic or logographical ones, as each logogram must be learnt essentially by rote, and though there are some strategies to try to identify the meaning of new symbols, it is very likely most readers will not know at least some of the symbols for the technical language, even if they know how to pronounce the word.






share|improve this answer




























    up vote
    2
    down vote













    Most certainly. The number of different symbols in a writing system has nothing to do with what can be expressed in it. When it comes down to it, this answer is being represented inside your computer with only two "symbols": a transistor switched on, and a transistor switched off. Yet it can express whatever ideas you like, whether that's a philosophical treatise or the plans for the Space Shuttle.



    As Dannii said, the only thing that really affects this is the amount of technical vocabulary in the language. Hawai'ian, for example, has no native word for "transistor". But there's an easy solution for this: it borrows the word from English.






    share|improve this answer




























      up vote
      2
      down vote













      Thousands of languages use the Latin alphabet – for example, Rotokas, Hawaiian, English, Shona. This also includes French, Spanish, German and Norwegian, since the Latin alphabet has been expanded to include letters like æ, á, ü and v versus u and w which are not part of the writing system used by the Romans. What distinguishes Rotokas and Hawaiian from Shona and English is that the former languages have relatively few phonemes in their sound inventory, and the latter have a lot more sounds (they all use the Latin alphabet). In fact, Shona has more sounds that English (they have even more digraphs that English does), but don't use l,x,q. English doesn't use the letters ü, æ, ñ and so on, and Rotokas doesn't use the letters b,c, d, y.... This is not a fundamental limit on what you can do with the language, though.



      Switching from space shuttle manuals to phonology textbooks, the main problem that a translator would face in writing a phonology textbook in Rotokas is that you have to come up with terminology for grammar, underlying form, phoneme, rule, epenthesis, metathesis, association line... An analogous situation is that Norwegian doesn't use the letter x, and yet in technical discourse, they may need to write about xylitol or xenon, so they actually can use the whole Latin alphabet. They also don't use q, except when they talk about Lake Qaraoun. In the would-be Rotokas phonology book, metathesis could be spelled metatesis, using an otherwise unused letter of the Rotokas alphabet (which actually is used for Matthew, etc: see here, likewise attesting use of j, h, y and other letters not supposedly available, just on the first page).



      A technical manual for a space shuttle exists in English and Russian, and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't exist in Rotokas or Norwegian. But there is no linguistic reason why such a thing could not be created, and it is certainly not because the languages in question don't have enough sounds. In fact, the Khoisan languages such as ǃXóõ are written with an augmented Latin alphabet and have huge inventories of sounds, but also no space shuttle manual. The only impediments that relate to language are the lack of well-established technical terms for things like interocitor or asymptote.






      share|improve this answer





















        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function() {
        var channelOptions = {
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "312"
        };
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
        createEditor();
        });
        }
        else {
        createEditor();
        }
        });

        function createEditor() {
        StackExchange.prepareEditor({
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader: {
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        },
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        });


        }
        });






        Chris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function () {
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flinguistics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f29939%2falphabet-size-affects-complexity-of-written-ideas%23new-answer', 'question_page');
        }
        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes








        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        2
        down vote













        Simple writing systems for languages with simple and small phoneme inventories are a perfect match - such writing systems could convey anything which the language can say, and are very suitable for highly complex technical manuals (though the language may need to borrow many technical words.)



        If any writing systems are less ideal for technical manuals I would guess that it would be the hieroglyphic or logographical ones, as each logogram must be learnt essentially by rote, and though there are some strategies to try to identify the meaning of new symbols, it is very likely most readers will not know at least some of the symbols for the technical language, even if they know how to pronounce the word.






        share|improve this answer

























          up vote
          2
          down vote













          Simple writing systems for languages with simple and small phoneme inventories are a perfect match - such writing systems could convey anything which the language can say, and are very suitable for highly complex technical manuals (though the language may need to borrow many technical words.)



          If any writing systems are less ideal for technical manuals I would guess that it would be the hieroglyphic or logographical ones, as each logogram must be learnt essentially by rote, and though there are some strategies to try to identify the meaning of new symbols, it is very likely most readers will not know at least some of the symbols for the technical language, even if they know how to pronounce the word.






          share|improve this answer























            up vote
            2
            down vote










            up vote
            2
            down vote









            Simple writing systems for languages with simple and small phoneme inventories are a perfect match - such writing systems could convey anything which the language can say, and are very suitable for highly complex technical manuals (though the language may need to borrow many technical words.)



            If any writing systems are less ideal for technical manuals I would guess that it would be the hieroglyphic or logographical ones, as each logogram must be learnt essentially by rote, and though there are some strategies to try to identify the meaning of new symbols, it is very likely most readers will not know at least some of the symbols for the technical language, even if they know how to pronounce the word.






            share|improve this answer












            Simple writing systems for languages with simple and small phoneme inventories are a perfect match - such writing systems could convey anything which the language can say, and are very suitable for highly complex technical manuals (though the language may need to borrow many technical words.)



            If any writing systems are less ideal for technical manuals I would guess that it would be the hieroglyphic or logographical ones, as each logogram must be learnt essentially by rote, and though there are some strategies to try to identify the meaning of new symbols, it is very likely most readers will not know at least some of the symbols for the technical language, even if they know how to pronounce the word.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 9 hours ago









            curiousdannii

            2,74531529




            2,74531529






















                up vote
                2
                down vote













                Most certainly. The number of different symbols in a writing system has nothing to do with what can be expressed in it. When it comes down to it, this answer is being represented inside your computer with only two "symbols": a transistor switched on, and a transistor switched off. Yet it can express whatever ideas you like, whether that's a philosophical treatise or the plans for the Space Shuttle.



                As Dannii said, the only thing that really affects this is the amount of technical vocabulary in the language. Hawai'ian, for example, has no native word for "transistor". But there's an easy solution for this: it borrows the word from English.






                share|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  Most certainly. The number of different symbols in a writing system has nothing to do with what can be expressed in it. When it comes down to it, this answer is being represented inside your computer with only two "symbols": a transistor switched on, and a transistor switched off. Yet it can express whatever ideas you like, whether that's a philosophical treatise or the plans for the Space Shuttle.



                  As Dannii said, the only thing that really affects this is the amount of technical vocabulary in the language. Hawai'ian, for example, has no native word for "transistor". But there's an easy solution for this: it borrows the word from English.






                  share|improve this answer























                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote









                    Most certainly. The number of different symbols in a writing system has nothing to do with what can be expressed in it. When it comes down to it, this answer is being represented inside your computer with only two "symbols": a transistor switched on, and a transistor switched off. Yet it can express whatever ideas you like, whether that's a philosophical treatise or the plans for the Space Shuttle.



                    As Dannii said, the only thing that really affects this is the amount of technical vocabulary in the language. Hawai'ian, for example, has no native word for "transistor". But there's an easy solution for this: it borrows the word from English.






                    share|improve this answer












                    Most certainly. The number of different symbols in a writing system has nothing to do with what can be expressed in it. When it comes down to it, this answer is being represented inside your computer with only two "symbols": a transistor switched on, and a transistor switched off. Yet it can express whatever ideas you like, whether that's a philosophical treatise or the plans for the Space Shuttle.



                    As Dannii said, the only thing that really affects this is the amount of technical vocabulary in the language. Hawai'ian, for example, has no native word for "transistor". But there's an easy solution for this: it borrows the word from English.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 9 hours ago









                    Draconis

                    8,7691236




                    8,7691236






















                        up vote
                        2
                        down vote













                        Thousands of languages use the Latin alphabet – for example, Rotokas, Hawaiian, English, Shona. This also includes French, Spanish, German and Norwegian, since the Latin alphabet has been expanded to include letters like æ, á, ü and v versus u and w which are not part of the writing system used by the Romans. What distinguishes Rotokas and Hawaiian from Shona and English is that the former languages have relatively few phonemes in their sound inventory, and the latter have a lot more sounds (they all use the Latin alphabet). In fact, Shona has more sounds that English (they have even more digraphs that English does), but don't use l,x,q. English doesn't use the letters ü, æ, ñ and so on, and Rotokas doesn't use the letters b,c, d, y.... This is not a fundamental limit on what you can do with the language, though.



                        Switching from space shuttle manuals to phonology textbooks, the main problem that a translator would face in writing a phonology textbook in Rotokas is that you have to come up with terminology for grammar, underlying form, phoneme, rule, epenthesis, metathesis, association line... An analogous situation is that Norwegian doesn't use the letter x, and yet in technical discourse, they may need to write about xylitol or xenon, so they actually can use the whole Latin alphabet. They also don't use q, except when they talk about Lake Qaraoun. In the would-be Rotokas phonology book, metathesis could be spelled metatesis, using an otherwise unused letter of the Rotokas alphabet (which actually is used for Matthew, etc: see here, likewise attesting use of j, h, y and other letters not supposedly available, just on the first page).



                        A technical manual for a space shuttle exists in English and Russian, and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't exist in Rotokas or Norwegian. But there is no linguistic reason why such a thing could not be created, and it is certainly not because the languages in question don't have enough sounds. In fact, the Khoisan languages such as ǃXóõ are written with an augmented Latin alphabet and have huge inventories of sounds, but also no space shuttle manual. The only impediments that relate to language are the lack of well-established technical terms for things like interocitor or asymptote.






                        share|improve this answer

























                          up vote
                          2
                          down vote













                          Thousands of languages use the Latin alphabet – for example, Rotokas, Hawaiian, English, Shona. This also includes French, Spanish, German and Norwegian, since the Latin alphabet has been expanded to include letters like æ, á, ü and v versus u and w which are not part of the writing system used by the Romans. What distinguishes Rotokas and Hawaiian from Shona and English is that the former languages have relatively few phonemes in their sound inventory, and the latter have a lot more sounds (they all use the Latin alphabet). In fact, Shona has more sounds that English (they have even more digraphs that English does), but don't use l,x,q. English doesn't use the letters ü, æ, ñ and so on, and Rotokas doesn't use the letters b,c, d, y.... This is not a fundamental limit on what you can do with the language, though.



                          Switching from space shuttle manuals to phonology textbooks, the main problem that a translator would face in writing a phonology textbook in Rotokas is that you have to come up with terminology for grammar, underlying form, phoneme, rule, epenthesis, metathesis, association line... An analogous situation is that Norwegian doesn't use the letter x, and yet in technical discourse, they may need to write about xylitol or xenon, so they actually can use the whole Latin alphabet. They also don't use q, except when they talk about Lake Qaraoun. In the would-be Rotokas phonology book, metathesis could be spelled metatesis, using an otherwise unused letter of the Rotokas alphabet (which actually is used for Matthew, etc: see here, likewise attesting use of j, h, y and other letters not supposedly available, just on the first page).



                          A technical manual for a space shuttle exists in English and Russian, and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't exist in Rotokas or Norwegian. But there is no linguistic reason why such a thing could not be created, and it is certainly not because the languages in question don't have enough sounds. In fact, the Khoisan languages such as ǃXóõ are written with an augmented Latin alphabet and have huge inventories of sounds, but also no space shuttle manual. The only impediments that relate to language are the lack of well-established technical terms for things like interocitor or asymptote.






                          share|improve this answer























                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote









                            Thousands of languages use the Latin alphabet – for example, Rotokas, Hawaiian, English, Shona. This also includes French, Spanish, German and Norwegian, since the Latin alphabet has been expanded to include letters like æ, á, ü and v versus u and w which are not part of the writing system used by the Romans. What distinguishes Rotokas and Hawaiian from Shona and English is that the former languages have relatively few phonemes in their sound inventory, and the latter have a lot more sounds (they all use the Latin alphabet). In fact, Shona has more sounds that English (they have even more digraphs that English does), but don't use l,x,q. English doesn't use the letters ü, æ, ñ and so on, and Rotokas doesn't use the letters b,c, d, y.... This is not a fundamental limit on what you can do with the language, though.



                            Switching from space shuttle manuals to phonology textbooks, the main problem that a translator would face in writing a phonology textbook in Rotokas is that you have to come up with terminology for grammar, underlying form, phoneme, rule, epenthesis, metathesis, association line... An analogous situation is that Norwegian doesn't use the letter x, and yet in technical discourse, they may need to write about xylitol or xenon, so they actually can use the whole Latin alphabet. They also don't use q, except when they talk about Lake Qaraoun. In the would-be Rotokas phonology book, metathesis could be spelled metatesis, using an otherwise unused letter of the Rotokas alphabet (which actually is used for Matthew, etc: see here, likewise attesting use of j, h, y and other letters not supposedly available, just on the first page).



                            A technical manual for a space shuttle exists in English and Russian, and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't exist in Rotokas or Norwegian. But there is no linguistic reason why such a thing could not be created, and it is certainly not because the languages in question don't have enough sounds. In fact, the Khoisan languages such as ǃXóõ are written with an augmented Latin alphabet and have huge inventories of sounds, but also no space shuttle manual. The only impediments that relate to language are the lack of well-established technical terms for things like interocitor or asymptote.






                            share|improve this answer












                            Thousands of languages use the Latin alphabet – for example, Rotokas, Hawaiian, English, Shona. This also includes French, Spanish, German and Norwegian, since the Latin alphabet has been expanded to include letters like æ, á, ü and v versus u and w which are not part of the writing system used by the Romans. What distinguishes Rotokas and Hawaiian from Shona and English is that the former languages have relatively few phonemes in their sound inventory, and the latter have a lot more sounds (they all use the Latin alphabet). In fact, Shona has more sounds that English (they have even more digraphs that English does), but don't use l,x,q. English doesn't use the letters ü, æ, ñ and so on, and Rotokas doesn't use the letters b,c, d, y.... This is not a fundamental limit on what you can do with the language, though.



                            Switching from space shuttle manuals to phonology textbooks, the main problem that a translator would face in writing a phonology textbook in Rotokas is that you have to come up with terminology for grammar, underlying form, phoneme, rule, epenthesis, metathesis, association line... An analogous situation is that Norwegian doesn't use the letter x, and yet in technical discourse, they may need to write about xylitol or xenon, so they actually can use the whole Latin alphabet. They also don't use q, except when they talk about Lake Qaraoun. In the would-be Rotokas phonology book, metathesis could be spelled metatesis, using an otherwise unused letter of the Rotokas alphabet (which actually is used for Matthew, etc: see here, likewise attesting use of j, h, y and other letters not supposedly available, just on the first page).



                            A technical manual for a space shuttle exists in English and Russian, and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't exist in Rotokas or Norwegian. But there is no linguistic reason why such a thing could not be created, and it is certainly not because the languages in question don't have enough sounds. In fact, the Khoisan languages such as ǃXóõ are written with an augmented Latin alphabet and have huge inventories of sounds, but also no space shuttle manual. The only impediments that relate to language are the lack of well-established technical terms for things like interocitor or asymptote.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 9 hours ago









                            user6726

                            32.8k11959




                            32.8k11959






















                                Chris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










                                draft saved

                                draft discarded


















                                Chris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













                                Chris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                                Chris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Linguistics Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid



                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                                Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                                Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid



                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function () {
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flinguistics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f29939%2falphabet-size-affects-complexity-of-written-ideas%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                }
                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                Ellipse (mathématiques)

                                Quarter-circle Tiles

                                Mont Emei