Does this look like a correct Bandpass filter?











up vote
1
down vote

favorite












A project task assigned me to make a simple series RLC bandpass filter with values B = 73kHz & freq center = 4.8MHz known.



I use equations B=R/L and fc=1/(2pisqrt(LC)) to get the RLC values.



Is the graph what I should expect? The center frequency lines up properly.. and I think the bandwidth is okay because it is so small (73kHz).



enter image description here



enter image description here



/edit
Here is a more zoomed-in version of my graph
enter image description here










share|improve this question
























  • Set your x-axis to a log scale and you'll see something more like what you would see in a textbook.
    – John D
    Nov 22 at 17:20










  • I would have gone with $C_1=100:text{pF}$ as a starting value and used Q and the center frequency's relationship to LC to work out the values. However, the values you have "feel" they are in the right ballpark. Your Q seems a bit high. But that's easily fixed.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:06










  • To verify if your bandwidth is exactly 73kHz, expand your x scale (don't make it a log scale) and look for the points where the response is 3dB down from the peak. They should be 73kHz apart.
    – TimWescott
    Nov 22 at 18:28










  • @TimWescott I tested this and this gives me 12kHz apart only. Why is it that you choose 3dB? :)
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:36










  • I agree with @TimWescott about not making it a log scale when making BW measurements, I was just suggesting the log scale because many textbook bandpass curves are plotted on a log scale and the shape looks more familiar that way. (In case that was one of the concerns with the question "Is the graph what I should expect?"
    – John D
    Nov 22 at 19:00

















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












A project task assigned me to make a simple series RLC bandpass filter with values B = 73kHz & freq center = 4.8MHz known.



I use equations B=R/L and fc=1/(2pisqrt(LC)) to get the RLC values.



Is the graph what I should expect? The center frequency lines up properly.. and I think the bandwidth is okay because it is so small (73kHz).



enter image description here



enter image description here



/edit
Here is a more zoomed-in version of my graph
enter image description here










share|improve this question
























  • Set your x-axis to a log scale and you'll see something more like what you would see in a textbook.
    – John D
    Nov 22 at 17:20










  • I would have gone with $C_1=100:text{pF}$ as a starting value and used Q and the center frequency's relationship to LC to work out the values. However, the values you have "feel" they are in the right ballpark. Your Q seems a bit high. But that's easily fixed.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:06










  • To verify if your bandwidth is exactly 73kHz, expand your x scale (don't make it a log scale) and look for the points where the response is 3dB down from the peak. They should be 73kHz apart.
    – TimWescott
    Nov 22 at 18:28










  • @TimWescott I tested this and this gives me 12kHz apart only. Why is it that you choose 3dB? :)
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:36










  • I agree with @TimWescott about not making it a log scale when making BW measurements, I was just suggesting the log scale because many textbook bandpass curves are plotted on a log scale and the shape looks more familiar that way. (In case that was one of the concerns with the question "Is the graph what I should expect?"
    – John D
    Nov 22 at 19:00















up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











A project task assigned me to make a simple series RLC bandpass filter with values B = 73kHz & freq center = 4.8MHz known.



I use equations B=R/L and fc=1/(2pisqrt(LC)) to get the RLC values.



Is the graph what I should expect? The center frequency lines up properly.. and I think the bandwidth is okay because it is so small (73kHz).



enter image description here



enter image description here



/edit
Here is a more zoomed-in version of my graph
enter image description here










share|improve this question















A project task assigned me to make a simple series RLC bandpass filter with values B = 73kHz & freq center = 4.8MHz known.



I use equations B=R/L and fc=1/(2pisqrt(LC)) to get the RLC values.



Is the graph what I should expect? The center frequency lines up properly.. and I think the bandwidth is okay because it is so small (73kHz).



enter image description here



enter image description here



/edit
Here is a more zoomed-in version of my graph
enter image description here







filter electrical engineering






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Nov 22 at 18:44

























asked Nov 22 at 17:07









Austin Brown

314




314












  • Set your x-axis to a log scale and you'll see something more like what you would see in a textbook.
    – John D
    Nov 22 at 17:20










  • I would have gone with $C_1=100:text{pF}$ as a starting value and used Q and the center frequency's relationship to LC to work out the values. However, the values you have "feel" they are in the right ballpark. Your Q seems a bit high. But that's easily fixed.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:06










  • To verify if your bandwidth is exactly 73kHz, expand your x scale (don't make it a log scale) and look for the points where the response is 3dB down from the peak. They should be 73kHz apart.
    – TimWescott
    Nov 22 at 18:28










  • @TimWescott I tested this and this gives me 12kHz apart only. Why is it that you choose 3dB? :)
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:36










  • I agree with @TimWescott about not making it a log scale when making BW measurements, I was just suggesting the log scale because many textbook bandpass curves are plotted on a log scale and the shape looks more familiar that way. (In case that was one of the concerns with the question "Is the graph what I should expect?"
    – John D
    Nov 22 at 19:00




















  • Set your x-axis to a log scale and you'll see something more like what you would see in a textbook.
    – John D
    Nov 22 at 17:20










  • I would have gone with $C_1=100:text{pF}$ as a starting value and used Q and the center frequency's relationship to LC to work out the values. However, the values you have "feel" they are in the right ballpark. Your Q seems a bit high. But that's easily fixed.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:06










  • To verify if your bandwidth is exactly 73kHz, expand your x scale (don't make it a log scale) and look for the points where the response is 3dB down from the peak. They should be 73kHz apart.
    – TimWescott
    Nov 22 at 18:28










  • @TimWescott I tested this and this gives me 12kHz apart only. Why is it that you choose 3dB? :)
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:36










  • I agree with @TimWescott about not making it a log scale when making BW measurements, I was just suggesting the log scale because many textbook bandpass curves are plotted on a log scale and the shape looks more familiar that way. (In case that was one of the concerns with the question "Is the graph what I should expect?"
    – John D
    Nov 22 at 19:00


















Set your x-axis to a log scale and you'll see something more like what you would see in a textbook.
– John D
Nov 22 at 17:20




Set your x-axis to a log scale and you'll see something more like what you would see in a textbook.
– John D
Nov 22 at 17:20












I would have gone with $C_1=100:text{pF}$ as a starting value and used Q and the center frequency's relationship to LC to work out the values. However, the values you have "feel" they are in the right ballpark. Your Q seems a bit high. But that's easily fixed.
– jonk
Nov 22 at 18:06




I would have gone with $C_1=100:text{pF}$ as a starting value and used Q and the center frequency's relationship to LC to work out the values. However, the values you have "feel" they are in the right ballpark. Your Q seems a bit high. But that's easily fixed.
– jonk
Nov 22 at 18:06












To verify if your bandwidth is exactly 73kHz, expand your x scale (don't make it a log scale) and look for the points where the response is 3dB down from the peak. They should be 73kHz apart.
– TimWescott
Nov 22 at 18:28




To verify if your bandwidth is exactly 73kHz, expand your x scale (don't make it a log scale) and look for the points where the response is 3dB down from the peak. They should be 73kHz apart.
– TimWescott
Nov 22 at 18:28












@TimWescott I tested this and this gives me 12kHz apart only. Why is it that you choose 3dB? :)
– Austin Brown
Nov 22 at 18:36




@TimWescott I tested this and this gives me 12kHz apart only. Why is it that you choose 3dB? :)
– Austin Brown
Nov 22 at 18:36












I agree with @TimWescott about not making it a log scale when making BW measurements, I was just suggesting the log scale because many textbook bandpass curves are plotted on a log scale and the shape looks more familiar that way. (In case that was one of the concerns with the question "Is the graph what I should expect?"
– John D
Nov 22 at 19:00






I agree with @TimWescott about not making it a log scale when making BW measurements, I was just suggesting the log scale because many textbook bandpass curves are plotted on a log scale and the shape looks more familiar that way. (In case that was one of the concerns with the question "Is the graph what I should expect?"
– John D
Nov 22 at 19:00












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote













The ratio of centre frequency to bandwidth is called Q and Q, for a series resonant circuit, is also dictated by R, L and C using this formula: -



$$Q = dfrac{1}{R}sqrt{dfrac{L}{C}}$$



Plugging in your circuit values I get a Q of 413. If I considered the centre-frequency to bandwidth ratio, I get 65.75 so, it looks like you will be "sharper" in resonance than your specification demands and this can cause problems.




I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values




The ratio of R to L does give you the bandwidth but that bandwidth is in radians per second; you have assumed it is in hertz hence, the value of Q of 413 (gleaned from my formula and your values) is precisely $2pi$ times higher than 65.7 ($f_0$ to bandwidth ratio) and that is your only mistake. The formula for resonant frequency is correct.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    That's about what I get. I think this is totally a theoretical exercise for the OP and their Q seems excessive, just as you point out. I think this is the right kind of response, though.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:07










  • Yes this exercise is 100% theoretical.
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:37










  • I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values, and also that my graph is okay. Is my work accurate, or do I need to do something else?
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:41










  • Yes, your formula is correct, R/L is the bandwidth in radians per second and that is 2pi more in value than in Hz so the error you have made is assuming that R/L equated to Hz.
    – Andy aka
    Nov 22 at 19:45


















up vote
1
down vote













Where is the load, and what is the impedance of the load? Your filter will shift significantly based on what the output load actually is. Thus, you may want to buffer the output with a unity-gain opamp. Also, if your input isn't ideal (and it isn't,) it, too, may interact with your passive circuit, so you may need a buffer on that end, too.



Or you can design the entire circuit in context of its input/output stages, to figure out what the values should be as-used, if the input and output designs are fixed.






share|improve this answer

















  • 1




    I think this is homework and an "idealized" design situation. I believe the OP just needs to be able to demonstrate the ability to use Q and the value of some one part, perhaps, to calculate theoretical values.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:02











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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
2
down vote













The ratio of centre frequency to bandwidth is called Q and Q, for a series resonant circuit, is also dictated by R, L and C using this formula: -



$$Q = dfrac{1}{R}sqrt{dfrac{L}{C}}$$



Plugging in your circuit values I get a Q of 413. If I considered the centre-frequency to bandwidth ratio, I get 65.75 so, it looks like you will be "sharper" in resonance than your specification demands and this can cause problems.




I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values




The ratio of R to L does give you the bandwidth but that bandwidth is in radians per second; you have assumed it is in hertz hence, the value of Q of 413 (gleaned from my formula and your values) is precisely $2pi$ times higher than 65.7 ($f_0$ to bandwidth ratio) and that is your only mistake. The formula for resonant frequency is correct.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    That's about what I get. I think this is totally a theoretical exercise for the OP and their Q seems excessive, just as you point out. I think this is the right kind of response, though.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:07










  • Yes this exercise is 100% theoretical.
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:37










  • I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values, and also that my graph is okay. Is my work accurate, or do I need to do something else?
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:41










  • Yes, your formula is correct, R/L is the bandwidth in radians per second and that is 2pi more in value than in Hz so the error you have made is assuming that R/L equated to Hz.
    – Andy aka
    Nov 22 at 19:45















up vote
2
down vote













The ratio of centre frequency to bandwidth is called Q and Q, for a series resonant circuit, is also dictated by R, L and C using this formula: -



$$Q = dfrac{1}{R}sqrt{dfrac{L}{C}}$$



Plugging in your circuit values I get a Q of 413. If I considered the centre-frequency to bandwidth ratio, I get 65.75 so, it looks like you will be "sharper" in resonance than your specification demands and this can cause problems.




I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values




The ratio of R to L does give you the bandwidth but that bandwidth is in radians per second; you have assumed it is in hertz hence, the value of Q of 413 (gleaned from my formula and your values) is precisely $2pi$ times higher than 65.7 ($f_0$ to bandwidth ratio) and that is your only mistake. The formula for resonant frequency is correct.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    That's about what I get. I think this is totally a theoretical exercise for the OP and their Q seems excessive, just as you point out. I think this is the right kind of response, though.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:07










  • Yes this exercise is 100% theoretical.
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:37










  • I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values, and also that my graph is okay. Is my work accurate, or do I need to do something else?
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:41










  • Yes, your formula is correct, R/L is the bandwidth in radians per second and that is 2pi more in value than in Hz so the error you have made is assuming that R/L equated to Hz.
    – Andy aka
    Nov 22 at 19:45













up vote
2
down vote










up vote
2
down vote









The ratio of centre frequency to bandwidth is called Q and Q, for a series resonant circuit, is also dictated by R, L and C using this formula: -



$$Q = dfrac{1}{R}sqrt{dfrac{L}{C}}$$



Plugging in your circuit values I get a Q of 413. If I considered the centre-frequency to bandwidth ratio, I get 65.75 so, it looks like you will be "sharper" in resonance than your specification demands and this can cause problems.




I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values




The ratio of R to L does give you the bandwidth but that bandwidth is in radians per second; you have assumed it is in hertz hence, the value of Q of 413 (gleaned from my formula and your values) is precisely $2pi$ times higher than 65.7 ($f_0$ to bandwidth ratio) and that is your only mistake. The formula for resonant frequency is correct.






share|improve this answer














The ratio of centre frequency to bandwidth is called Q and Q, for a series resonant circuit, is also dictated by R, L and C using this formula: -



$$Q = dfrac{1}{R}sqrt{dfrac{L}{C}}$$



Plugging in your circuit values I get a Q of 413. If I considered the centre-frequency to bandwidth ratio, I get 65.75 so, it looks like you will be "sharper" in resonance than your specification demands and this can cause problems.




I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values




The ratio of R to L does give you the bandwidth but that bandwidth is in radians per second; you have assumed it is in hertz hence, the value of Q of 413 (gleaned from my formula and your values) is precisely $2pi$ times higher than 65.7 ($f_0$ to bandwidth ratio) and that is your only mistake. The formula for resonant frequency is correct.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 22 at 19:53

























answered Nov 22 at 17:35









Andy aka

238k10174406




238k10174406








  • 1




    That's about what I get. I think this is totally a theoretical exercise for the OP and their Q seems excessive, just as you point out. I think this is the right kind of response, though.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:07










  • Yes this exercise is 100% theoretical.
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:37










  • I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values, and also that my graph is okay. Is my work accurate, or do I need to do something else?
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:41










  • Yes, your formula is correct, R/L is the bandwidth in radians per second and that is 2pi more in value than in Hz so the error you have made is assuming that R/L equated to Hz.
    – Andy aka
    Nov 22 at 19:45














  • 1




    That's about what I get. I think this is totally a theoretical exercise for the OP and their Q seems excessive, just as you point out. I think this is the right kind of response, though.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:07










  • Yes this exercise is 100% theoretical.
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:37










  • I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values, and also that my graph is okay. Is my work accurate, or do I need to do something else?
    – Austin Brown
    Nov 22 at 18:41










  • Yes, your formula is correct, R/L is the bandwidth in radians per second and that is 2pi more in value than in Hz so the error you have made is assuming that R/L equated to Hz.
    – Andy aka
    Nov 22 at 19:45








1




1




That's about what I get. I think this is totally a theoretical exercise for the OP and their Q seems excessive, just as you point out. I think this is the right kind of response, though.
– jonk
Nov 22 at 18:07




That's about what I get. I think this is totally a theoretical exercise for the OP and their Q seems excessive, just as you point out. I think this is the right kind of response, though.
– jonk
Nov 22 at 18:07












Yes this exercise is 100% theoretical.
– Austin Brown
Nov 22 at 18:37




Yes this exercise is 100% theoretical.
– Austin Brown
Nov 22 at 18:37












I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values, and also that my graph is okay. Is my work accurate, or do I need to do something else?
– Austin Brown
Nov 22 at 18:41




I need to know if the method (using the equations I listed) is the correct way to determine my RLC values, and also that my graph is okay. Is my work accurate, or do I need to do something else?
– Austin Brown
Nov 22 at 18:41












Yes, your formula is correct, R/L is the bandwidth in radians per second and that is 2pi more in value than in Hz so the error you have made is assuming that R/L equated to Hz.
– Andy aka
Nov 22 at 19:45




Yes, your formula is correct, R/L is the bandwidth in radians per second and that is 2pi more in value than in Hz so the error you have made is assuming that R/L equated to Hz.
– Andy aka
Nov 22 at 19:45












up vote
1
down vote













Where is the load, and what is the impedance of the load? Your filter will shift significantly based on what the output load actually is. Thus, you may want to buffer the output with a unity-gain opamp. Also, if your input isn't ideal (and it isn't,) it, too, may interact with your passive circuit, so you may need a buffer on that end, too.



Or you can design the entire circuit in context of its input/output stages, to figure out what the values should be as-used, if the input and output designs are fixed.






share|improve this answer

















  • 1




    I think this is homework and an "idealized" design situation. I believe the OP just needs to be able to demonstrate the ability to use Q and the value of some one part, perhaps, to calculate theoretical values.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:02















up vote
1
down vote













Where is the load, and what is the impedance of the load? Your filter will shift significantly based on what the output load actually is. Thus, you may want to buffer the output with a unity-gain opamp. Also, if your input isn't ideal (and it isn't,) it, too, may interact with your passive circuit, so you may need a buffer on that end, too.



Or you can design the entire circuit in context of its input/output stages, to figure out what the values should be as-used, if the input and output designs are fixed.






share|improve this answer

















  • 1




    I think this is homework and an "idealized" design situation. I believe the OP just needs to be able to demonstrate the ability to use Q and the value of some one part, perhaps, to calculate theoretical values.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:02













up vote
1
down vote










up vote
1
down vote









Where is the load, and what is the impedance of the load? Your filter will shift significantly based on what the output load actually is. Thus, you may want to buffer the output with a unity-gain opamp. Also, if your input isn't ideal (and it isn't,) it, too, may interact with your passive circuit, so you may need a buffer on that end, too.



Or you can design the entire circuit in context of its input/output stages, to figure out what the values should be as-used, if the input and output designs are fixed.






share|improve this answer












Where is the load, and what is the impedance of the load? Your filter will shift significantly based on what the output load actually is. Thus, you may want to buffer the output with a unity-gain opamp. Also, if your input isn't ideal (and it isn't,) it, too, may interact with your passive circuit, so you may need a buffer on that end, too.



Or you can design the entire circuit in context of its input/output stages, to figure out what the values should be as-used, if the input and output designs are fixed.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Nov 22 at 17:20









Jon Watte

4,7241534




4,7241534








  • 1




    I think this is homework and an "idealized" design situation. I believe the OP just needs to be able to demonstrate the ability to use Q and the value of some one part, perhaps, to calculate theoretical values.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:02














  • 1




    I think this is homework and an "idealized" design situation. I believe the OP just needs to be able to demonstrate the ability to use Q and the value of some one part, perhaps, to calculate theoretical values.
    – jonk
    Nov 22 at 18:02








1




1




I think this is homework and an "idealized" design situation. I believe the OP just needs to be able to demonstrate the ability to use Q and the value of some one part, perhaps, to calculate theoretical values.
– jonk
Nov 22 at 18:02




I think this is homework and an "idealized" design situation. I believe the OP just needs to be able to demonstrate the ability to use Q and the value of some one part, perhaps, to calculate theoretical values.
– jonk
Nov 22 at 18:02


















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