Which form(s) does the Shadow's Strength Drain attack affect when cast on a Wild Shaped, Shapechanged,...
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
The Shadow's Strength Drain attack states:
Strength Drain. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target’s Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest.
For a character that is in their true form this effect is straight forward, it reduces the strength score of the character's true form.
There is an ambiguity over which form the strength drain will apply to if it is applied to a character that is in some form other than their true form.
The most common way for this to occur is if the character is under the effect of Wild Shape, Shapechange, Polymorph or True Polymorph, as these change the character into another creature.
Let's say a Wild Shaped character is affected by the Strength Drain attack while in their beast form. Does the Strength Drain carry over to their true form when they drop their Wild Shape, or does it only affect the specific instance of Wild Shape?
Similar questions also arise for the Shapechange, Polymorph and True Polymorph spells.
dnd-5e spells monsters wild-shape ability-scores
add a comment |
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
The Shadow's Strength Drain attack states:
Strength Drain. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target’s Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest.
For a character that is in their true form this effect is straight forward, it reduces the strength score of the character's true form.
There is an ambiguity over which form the strength drain will apply to if it is applied to a character that is in some form other than their true form.
The most common way for this to occur is if the character is under the effect of Wild Shape, Shapechange, Polymorph or True Polymorph, as these change the character into another creature.
Let's say a Wild Shaped character is affected by the Strength Drain attack while in their beast form. Does the Strength Drain carry over to their true form when they drop their Wild Shape, or does it only affect the specific instance of Wild Shape?
Similar questions also arise for the Shapechange, Polymorph and True Polymorph spells.
dnd-5e spells monsters wild-shape ability-scores
It might be better to ask multiple separate questions about Beast Shape and Polymorph spells. Otherwise, this question could be considered too broad, although it does both concern the Shadow's Strength Drain.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
3
@PixelMaster The question is about the effect of the Strength Drain attack on PCs in a form other than their own. The most common ways for that to happen are via the four listed ways. I don't see why asking about it specifically in relation to those four in a single question would make it too broad.
– illustro
2 days ago
The question being about Strength Drain instead of directly about Polymorph or Wild Shape (not "Beast" Shape, I mistyped that earlier), is why I added the latter part to my second sentence. I personally wouldn't close the question as "too broad", but since Polymorph and Wild Shape sometimes differ, I figured it could be split up. Considering nobody voted to close so far, though, I guess it's fine as-is.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
Yeah, I think it's fine as long as you're not asking about any feature that lowers ability scores and about any way in which their form could be changed, which would make it too broad.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
The Shadow's Strength Drain attack states:
Strength Drain. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target’s Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest.
For a character that is in their true form this effect is straight forward, it reduces the strength score of the character's true form.
There is an ambiguity over which form the strength drain will apply to if it is applied to a character that is in some form other than their true form.
The most common way for this to occur is if the character is under the effect of Wild Shape, Shapechange, Polymorph or True Polymorph, as these change the character into another creature.
Let's say a Wild Shaped character is affected by the Strength Drain attack while in their beast form. Does the Strength Drain carry over to their true form when they drop their Wild Shape, or does it only affect the specific instance of Wild Shape?
Similar questions also arise for the Shapechange, Polymorph and True Polymorph spells.
dnd-5e spells monsters wild-shape ability-scores
The Shadow's Strength Drain attack states:
Strength Drain. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target’s Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest.
For a character that is in their true form this effect is straight forward, it reduces the strength score of the character's true form.
There is an ambiguity over which form the strength drain will apply to if it is applied to a character that is in some form other than their true form.
The most common way for this to occur is if the character is under the effect of Wild Shape, Shapechange, Polymorph or True Polymorph, as these change the character into another creature.
Let's say a Wild Shaped character is affected by the Strength Drain attack while in their beast form. Does the Strength Drain carry over to their true form when they drop their Wild Shape, or does it only affect the specific instance of Wild Shape?
Similar questions also arise for the Shapechange, Polymorph and True Polymorph spells.
dnd-5e spells monsters wild-shape ability-scores
dnd-5e spells monsters wild-shape ability-scores
edited 2 days ago
SevenSidedDie♦
202k27643923
202k27643923
asked 2 days ago
illustro
5,19021245
5,19021245
It might be better to ask multiple separate questions about Beast Shape and Polymorph spells. Otherwise, this question could be considered too broad, although it does both concern the Shadow's Strength Drain.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
3
@PixelMaster The question is about the effect of the Strength Drain attack on PCs in a form other than their own. The most common ways for that to happen are via the four listed ways. I don't see why asking about it specifically in relation to those four in a single question would make it too broad.
– illustro
2 days ago
The question being about Strength Drain instead of directly about Polymorph or Wild Shape (not "Beast" Shape, I mistyped that earlier), is why I added the latter part to my second sentence. I personally wouldn't close the question as "too broad", but since Polymorph and Wild Shape sometimes differ, I figured it could be split up. Considering nobody voted to close so far, though, I guess it's fine as-is.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
Yeah, I think it's fine as long as you're not asking about any feature that lowers ability scores and about any way in which their form could be changed, which would make it too broad.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
add a comment |
It might be better to ask multiple separate questions about Beast Shape and Polymorph spells. Otherwise, this question could be considered too broad, although it does both concern the Shadow's Strength Drain.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
3
@PixelMaster The question is about the effect of the Strength Drain attack on PCs in a form other than their own. The most common ways for that to happen are via the four listed ways. I don't see why asking about it specifically in relation to those four in a single question would make it too broad.
– illustro
2 days ago
The question being about Strength Drain instead of directly about Polymorph or Wild Shape (not "Beast" Shape, I mistyped that earlier), is why I added the latter part to my second sentence. I personally wouldn't close the question as "too broad", but since Polymorph and Wild Shape sometimes differ, I figured it could be split up. Considering nobody voted to close so far, though, I guess it's fine as-is.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
Yeah, I think it's fine as long as you're not asking about any feature that lowers ability scores and about any way in which their form could be changed, which would make it too broad.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
It might be better to ask multiple separate questions about Beast Shape and Polymorph spells. Otherwise, this question could be considered too broad, although it does both concern the Shadow's Strength Drain.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
It might be better to ask multiple separate questions about Beast Shape and Polymorph spells. Otherwise, this question could be considered too broad, although it does both concern the Shadow's Strength Drain.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
3
3
@PixelMaster The question is about the effect of the Strength Drain attack on PCs in a form other than their own. The most common ways for that to happen are via the four listed ways. I don't see why asking about it specifically in relation to those four in a single question would make it too broad.
– illustro
2 days ago
@PixelMaster The question is about the effect of the Strength Drain attack on PCs in a form other than their own. The most common ways for that to happen are via the four listed ways. I don't see why asking about it specifically in relation to those four in a single question would make it too broad.
– illustro
2 days ago
The question being about Strength Drain instead of directly about Polymorph or Wild Shape (not "Beast" Shape, I mistyped that earlier), is why I added the latter part to my second sentence. I personally wouldn't close the question as "too broad", but since Polymorph and Wild Shape sometimes differ, I figured it could be split up. Considering nobody voted to close so far, though, I guess it's fine as-is.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
The question being about Strength Drain instead of directly about Polymorph or Wild Shape (not "Beast" Shape, I mistyped that earlier), is why I added the latter part to my second sentence. I personally wouldn't close the question as "too broad", but since Polymorph and Wild Shape sometimes differ, I figured it could be split up. Considering nobody voted to close so far, though, I guess it's fine as-is.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
Yeah, I think it's fine as long as you're not asking about any feature that lowers ability scores and about any way in which their form could be changed, which would make it too broad.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
Yeah, I think it's fine as long as you're not asking about any feature that lowers ability scores and about any way in which their form could be changed, which would make it too broad.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
13
down vote
The Strength reduction would likely only affect your beast form
Jeremy Crawford has said this regarding maximum hit point reduction (borrowed from this answer to a question about maximum hit point reduction):
Jonathan Longstaff
@pukunui81
@JeremyECrawford What happens when a wildshaped druid that has had its HP max reduced reverts back to normal? Does the reduction carry over?
Jeremy Crawford
@JeremyECrawford
Wild Shape—a reduction to hp maximum doesn't carry over from your beast form to your true form or vice versa.
Although they are different effects (strength reduction and maximum hit points reduction), the reasoning for one would apply to the other, given that they are both reductions that end on a long rest. However, I cannot find anything published in their Sage Advice publication to confirm JC's ruling.
Taking from the description of Wild Shape (PHB, pg. 67):
While you are transformed, the following rules apply:
- Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores.
And:
- When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.
That part only discusses hit points reverting back to what you had before, and doesn't explicitly mention your maximum hit points or ability scores returning back to normal, it is only implies by the "While you are transformed" part at the start of this bullet list. Without anything explicit to go on, applying the same reasoning as JC seems consistent with current hit points, at least.
1
Do you have any rules text to back this up, or has this clarification been included in a published Sage Advice? While Jeremy can give authoritative rulings, he has been known to give conflicting answers to the same question asked at different points in time (the Coffeelock related tweets being prime examples of this). As such I'd prefer if answers could also be backed up with rules/published WotC rulings (via their Sage Advice publication).
– illustro
2 days ago
3
@illustro That's fair. Unfortunately I am unable to find much more than what I've found. I've weakened my answer's point of view (included "likely" in title) to show that this is just JC's ruling rather than official rules.
– NathanS
2 days ago
@Illustro what has your research uncovered? (No, I didn't find it in published SA).
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
13
down vote
The Strength reduction would likely only affect your beast form
Jeremy Crawford has said this regarding maximum hit point reduction (borrowed from this answer to a question about maximum hit point reduction):
Jonathan Longstaff
@pukunui81
@JeremyECrawford What happens when a wildshaped druid that has had its HP max reduced reverts back to normal? Does the reduction carry over?
Jeremy Crawford
@JeremyECrawford
Wild Shape—a reduction to hp maximum doesn't carry over from your beast form to your true form or vice versa.
Although they are different effects (strength reduction and maximum hit points reduction), the reasoning for one would apply to the other, given that they are both reductions that end on a long rest. However, I cannot find anything published in their Sage Advice publication to confirm JC's ruling.
Taking from the description of Wild Shape (PHB, pg. 67):
While you are transformed, the following rules apply:
- Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores.
And:
- When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.
That part only discusses hit points reverting back to what you had before, and doesn't explicitly mention your maximum hit points or ability scores returning back to normal, it is only implies by the "While you are transformed" part at the start of this bullet list. Without anything explicit to go on, applying the same reasoning as JC seems consistent with current hit points, at least.
1
Do you have any rules text to back this up, or has this clarification been included in a published Sage Advice? While Jeremy can give authoritative rulings, he has been known to give conflicting answers to the same question asked at different points in time (the Coffeelock related tweets being prime examples of this). As such I'd prefer if answers could also be backed up with rules/published WotC rulings (via their Sage Advice publication).
– illustro
2 days ago
3
@illustro That's fair. Unfortunately I am unable to find much more than what I've found. I've weakened my answer's point of view (included "likely" in title) to show that this is just JC's ruling rather than official rules.
– NathanS
2 days ago
@Illustro what has your research uncovered? (No, I didn't find it in published SA).
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
The Strength reduction would likely only affect your beast form
Jeremy Crawford has said this regarding maximum hit point reduction (borrowed from this answer to a question about maximum hit point reduction):
Jonathan Longstaff
@pukunui81
@JeremyECrawford What happens when a wildshaped druid that has had its HP max reduced reverts back to normal? Does the reduction carry over?
Jeremy Crawford
@JeremyECrawford
Wild Shape—a reduction to hp maximum doesn't carry over from your beast form to your true form or vice versa.
Although they are different effects (strength reduction and maximum hit points reduction), the reasoning for one would apply to the other, given that they are both reductions that end on a long rest. However, I cannot find anything published in their Sage Advice publication to confirm JC's ruling.
Taking from the description of Wild Shape (PHB, pg. 67):
While you are transformed, the following rules apply:
- Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores.
And:
- When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.
That part only discusses hit points reverting back to what you had before, and doesn't explicitly mention your maximum hit points or ability scores returning back to normal, it is only implies by the "While you are transformed" part at the start of this bullet list. Without anything explicit to go on, applying the same reasoning as JC seems consistent with current hit points, at least.
1
Do you have any rules text to back this up, or has this clarification been included in a published Sage Advice? While Jeremy can give authoritative rulings, he has been known to give conflicting answers to the same question asked at different points in time (the Coffeelock related tweets being prime examples of this). As such I'd prefer if answers could also be backed up with rules/published WotC rulings (via their Sage Advice publication).
– illustro
2 days ago
3
@illustro That's fair. Unfortunately I am unable to find much more than what I've found. I've weakened my answer's point of view (included "likely" in title) to show that this is just JC's ruling rather than official rules.
– NathanS
2 days ago
@Illustro what has your research uncovered? (No, I didn't find it in published SA).
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
up vote
13
down vote
The Strength reduction would likely only affect your beast form
Jeremy Crawford has said this regarding maximum hit point reduction (borrowed from this answer to a question about maximum hit point reduction):
Jonathan Longstaff
@pukunui81
@JeremyECrawford What happens when a wildshaped druid that has had its HP max reduced reverts back to normal? Does the reduction carry over?
Jeremy Crawford
@JeremyECrawford
Wild Shape—a reduction to hp maximum doesn't carry over from your beast form to your true form or vice versa.
Although they are different effects (strength reduction and maximum hit points reduction), the reasoning for one would apply to the other, given that they are both reductions that end on a long rest. However, I cannot find anything published in their Sage Advice publication to confirm JC's ruling.
Taking from the description of Wild Shape (PHB, pg. 67):
While you are transformed, the following rules apply:
- Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores.
And:
- When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.
That part only discusses hit points reverting back to what you had before, and doesn't explicitly mention your maximum hit points or ability scores returning back to normal, it is only implies by the "While you are transformed" part at the start of this bullet list. Without anything explicit to go on, applying the same reasoning as JC seems consistent with current hit points, at least.
The Strength reduction would likely only affect your beast form
Jeremy Crawford has said this regarding maximum hit point reduction (borrowed from this answer to a question about maximum hit point reduction):
Jonathan Longstaff
@pukunui81
@JeremyECrawford What happens when a wildshaped druid that has had its HP max reduced reverts back to normal? Does the reduction carry over?
Jeremy Crawford
@JeremyECrawford
Wild Shape—a reduction to hp maximum doesn't carry over from your beast form to your true form or vice versa.
Although they are different effects (strength reduction and maximum hit points reduction), the reasoning for one would apply to the other, given that they are both reductions that end on a long rest. However, I cannot find anything published in their Sage Advice publication to confirm JC's ruling.
Taking from the description of Wild Shape (PHB, pg. 67):
While you are transformed, the following rules apply:
- Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, but you retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores.
And:
- When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.
That part only discusses hit points reverting back to what you had before, and doesn't explicitly mention your maximum hit points or ability scores returning back to normal, it is only implies by the "While you are transformed" part at the start of this bullet list. Without anything explicit to go on, applying the same reasoning as JC seems consistent with current hit points, at least.
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
NathanS
20.1k686212
20.1k686212
1
Do you have any rules text to back this up, or has this clarification been included in a published Sage Advice? While Jeremy can give authoritative rulings, he has been known to give conflicting answers to the same question asked at different points in time (the Coffeelock related tweets being prime examples of this). As such I'd prefer if answers could also be backed up with rules/published WotC rulings (via their Sage Advice publication).
– illustro
2 days ago
3
@illustro That's fair. Unfortunately I am unable to find much more than what I've found. I've weakened my answer's point of view (included "likely" in title) to show that this is just JC's ruling rather than official rules.
– NathanS
2 days ago
@Illustro what has your research uncovered? (No, I didn't find it in published SA).
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
add a comment |
1
Do you have any rules text to back this up, or has this clarification been included in a published Sage Advice? While Jeremy can give authoritative rulings, he has been known to give conflicting answers to the same question asked at different points in time (the Coffeelock related tweets being prime examples of this). As such I'd prefer if answers could also be backed up with rules/published WotC rulings (via their Sage Advice publication).
– illustro
2 days ago
3
@illustro That's fair. Unfortunately I am unable to find much more than what I've found. I've weakened my answer's point of view (included "likely" in title) to show that this is just JC's ruling rather than official rules.
– NathanS
2 days ago
@Illustro what has your research uncovered? (No, I didn't find it in published SA).
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
1
1
Do you have any rules text to back this up, or has this clarification been included in a published Sage Advice? While Jeremy can give authoritative rulings, he has been known to give conflicting answers to the same question asked at different points in time (the Coffeelock related tweets being prime examples of this). As such I'd prefer if answers could also be backed up with rules/published WotC rulings (via their Sage Advice publication).
– illustro
2 days ago
Do you have any rules text to back this up, or has this clarification been included in a published Sage Advice? While Jeremy can give authoritative rulings, he has been known to give conflicting answers to the same question asked at different points in time (the Coffeelock related tweets being prime examples of this). As such I'd prefer if answers could also be backed up with rules/published WotC rulings (via their Sage Advice publication).
– illustro
2 days ago
3
3
@illustro That's fair. Unfortunately I am unable to find much more than what I've found. I've weakened my answer's point of view (included "likely" in title) to show that this is just JC's ruling rather than official rules.
– NathanS
2 days ago
@illustro That's fair. Unfortunately I am unable to find much more than what I've found. I've weakened my answer's point of view (included "likely" in title) to show that this is just JC's ruling rather than official rules.
– NathanS
2 days ago
@Illustro what has your research uncovered? (No, I didn't find it in published SA).
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
@Illustro what has your research uncovered? (No, I didn't find it in published SA).
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
add a comment |
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f136112%2fwhich-forms-does-the-shadows-strength-drain-attack-affect-when-cast-on-a-wild%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
It might be better to ask multiple separate questions about Beast Shape and Polymorph spells. Otherwise, this question could be considered too broad, although it does both concern the Shadow's Strength Drain.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
3
@PixelMaster The question is about the effect of the Strength Drain attack on PCs in a form other than their own. The most common ways for that to happen are via the four listed ways. I don't see why asking about it specifically in relation to those four in a single question would make it too broad.
– illustro
2 days ago
The question being about Strength Drain instead of directly about Polymorph or Wild Shape (not "Beast" Shape, I mistyped that earlier), is why I added the latter part to my second sentence. I personally wouldn't close the question as "too broad", but since Polymorph and Wild Shape sometimes differ, I figured it could be split up. Considering nobody voted to close so far, though, I guess it's fine as-is.
– PixelMaster
2 days ago
Yeah, I think it's fine as long as you're not asking about any feature that lowers ability scores and about any way in which their form could be changed, which would make it too broad.
– V2Blast
2 days ago