Is sound the best way to transmit a signal under water?











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Could sound be used in transmitting sound waves under water digitally? Could the sound then be converted by a repeater to transit by radio waves? What other ways can a signal be transmitted other than sound over long distances under water?



https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32421/how-would-a-transmission-be-relayed-through-bottom-of-europa-ocean-to-earth










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    2 days ago






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    Do you care about marine life? The collection of answers that you'll get if you do will be a different to that if you don't.
    – UKMonkey
    yesterday






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    Visible light (especially blue but also green) can also be used: example paper
    – Chris H
    yesterday















up vote
4
down vote

favorite












Could sound be used in transmitting sound waves under water digitally? Could the sound then be converted by a repeater to transit by radio waves? What other ways can a signal be transmitted other than sound over long distances under water?



https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32421/how-would-a-transmission-be-relayed-through-bottom-of-europa-ocean-to-earth










share|improve this question




















  • 1




    This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
    – Carlos Danger
    2 days ago






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    the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
    – Carlos Danger
    2 days ago












  • Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
    – Peter K.
    2 days ago






  • 2




    Do you care about marine life? The collection of answers that you'll get if you do will be a different to that if you don't.
    – UKMonkey
    yesterday






  • 1




    Visible light (especially blue but also green) can also be used: example paper
    – Chris H
    yesterday













up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











Could sound be used in transmitting sound waves under water digitally? Could the sound then be converted by a repeater to transit by radio waves? What other ways can a signal be transmitted other than sound over long distances under water?



https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32421/how-would-a-transmission-be-relayed-through-bottom-of-europa-ocean-to-earth










share|improve this question















Could sound be used in transmitting sound waves under water digitally? Could the sound then be converted by a repeater to transit by radio waves? What other ways can a signal be transmitted other than sound over long distances under water?



https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32421/how-would-a-transmission-be-relayed-through-bottom-of-europa-ocean-to-earth







filter-design preprocessing






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edited yesterday

























asked 2 days ago









Muze

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1279








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    This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
    – Carlos Danger
    2 days ago






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    the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
    – Carlos Danger
    2 days ago












  • Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
    – Peter K.
    2 days ago






  • 2




    Do you care about marine life? The collection of answers that you'll get if you do will be a different to that if you don't.
    – UKMonkey
    yesterday






  • 1




    Visible light (especially blue but also green) can also be used: example paper
    – Chris H
    yesterday














  • 1




    This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
    – Carlos Danger
    2 days ago






  • 1




    the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
    – Carlos Danger
    2 days ago












  • Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
    – Peter K.
    2 days ago






  • 2




    Do you care about marine life? The collection of answers that you'll get if you do will be a different to that if you don't.
    – UKMonkey
    yesterday






  • 1




    Visible light (especially blue but also green) can also be used: example paper
    – Chris H
    yesterday








1




1




This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
– Carlos Danger
2 days ago




This might be a better fit for electronics.stackexchange.com, fyi
– Carlos Danger
2 days ago




1




1




the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
– Carlos Danger
2 days ago






the way to do that is flag your post as being in need of moderator attention
– Carlos Danger
2 days ago














Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
– Peter K.
2 days ago




Migration failed because Muze is currently suspended from the Electronics SE site. Reopening here.
– Peter K.
2 days ago




2




2




Do you care about marine life? The collection of answers that you'll get if you do will be a different to that if you don't.
– UKMonkey
yesterday




Do you care about marine life? The collection of answers that you'll get if you do will be a different to that if you don't.
– UKMonkey
yesterday




1




1




Visible light (especially blue but also green) can also be used: example paper
– Chris H
yesterday




Visible light (especially blue but also green) can also be used: example paper
– Chris H
yesterday










6 Answers
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7
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Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.



EDIT:



Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.



EDIT 2:



Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.






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  • Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
    – Muze
    2 days ago










  • @Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
    – Carlos Danger
    2 days ago






  • 3




    @Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
    – Carlos Danger
    2 days ago










  • There is a comment on how light could be used but I am not sure if it is the best way using blue light.
    – Muze
    yesterday


















up vote
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to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.



Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.



Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.



Fiber optic cables work well too.



Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.






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    up vote
    4
    down vote













    Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.



    EDIT: You have basically three options for wireless communication in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.



    After a quick search, it seems that sonobuoys seem to have antennas that are kept above the surface to communicate with an aircraft or a ship. This is not an underwater wireless communication. The goal of underwater acoustic systems is to exchange information "wirelessly" between nodes underwater, and then with a central node at the surface that uses RF signals to communication with a center for further analysis/decisions.






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    • but is the best method?
      – Muze
      2 days ago










    • Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
      – BlackMath
      2 days ago






    • 1




      @Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
      – BlackMath
      2 days ago








    • 1




      sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
      – Stanley Pawlukiewicz
      2 days ago






    • 1




      I certainly was not suggesting that- my point was to show that that can’t be done underwater specifically (if wavelength was the only issue and not the loss factors irregardless of wavelength then we could do that as we do in air.
      – Dan Boschen
      2 days ago


















    up vote
    3
    down vote













    You have 3 ways of communicating underwater



    1) Acoustic : Most popular means of communication. Has high latency but good range



    2) Low frequency RF. To increase the range you have to lower the frequency, which means small bandwidth, so you can't transmit a lot of information.



    3) Optical: Low latency + High bandwidth but the range is limited to less than ~100 meters






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    • Your optical is really quite wrong. Fibre optic cables are the goto for communications across the Atlantic; and while they do have repeaters, the range is quite a lot more than 100m.
      – UKMonkey
      yesterday






    • 2




      @UKMonkey these are the methods that use water as the transmission medium , I assumed OP was interested in wireless underwater communication
      – Spatula
      yesterday




















    up vote
    2
    down vote













    This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.






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      up vote
      1
      down vote













      From a data transference point of view, yes; RF signals don't last well in salt water, whereas sound travels considerably better.



      But...



      If you're planning to try this on Earth, be aware that oceanic noise pollution is a problem, and if you need to communicate over large distances you'll need to make a loud noise. Consider using RF first; you'll get a low bit-rate, but it might be a better way to transfer the signal if the acoustic bands are already being used by marine life.






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        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

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        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

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        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        7
        down vote













        Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.



        EDIT:



        Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.



        EDIT 2:



        Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.






        share|improve this answer























        • Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
          – Muze
          2 days ago










        • @Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
          – Carlos Danger
          2 days ago






        • 3




          @Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
          – Carlos Danger
          2 days ago










        • There is a comment on how light could be used but I am not sure if it is the best way using blue light.
          – Muze
          yesterday















        up vote
        7
        down vote













        Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.



        EDIT:



        Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.



        EDIT 2:



        Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.






        share|improve this answer























        • Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
          – Muze
          2 days ago










        • @Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
          – Carlos Danger
          2 days ago






        • 3




          @Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
          – Carlos Danger
          2 days ago










        • There is a comment on how light could be used but I am not sure if it is the best way using blue light.
          – Muze
          yesterday













        up vote
        7
        down vote










        up vote
        7
        down vote









        Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.



        EDIT:



        Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.



        EDIT 2:



        Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.






        share|improve this answer














        Yes, it is called acoustic communications. Here is an example of a paper that uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) in an underwater acoustic channel.



        EDIT:



        Note that you wouldn't call it a SONAR any more because SONAR stands for SOund Navigation And Ranging, whereas this is a communication system, just like you wouldn't call your cell phone a radar.



        EDIT 2:



        Yes, the signal could be converted to a radio signal at a repeater. The repeater would ideally be floating in the surface and have a transducer (which is basically a microphone or array of microphones) on the underwater side to receive the sound waves. The transducer converts the sound waves into an electrical signal, which can be filtered and/or amplified, and then sent to an antenna for radio transmission. The antenna would likely need to be above water because radio waves don't propagate very far through water.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 2 days ago

























        answered 2 days ago









        Carlos Danger

        1,368316




        1,368316












        • Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
          – Muze
          2 days ago










        • @Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
          – Carlos Danger
          2 days ago






        • 3




          @Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
          – Carlos Danger
          2 days ago










        • There is a comment on how light could be used but I am not sure if it is the best way using blue light.
          – Muze
          yesterday


















        • Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
          – Muze
          2 days ago










        • @Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
          – Carlos Danger
          2 days ago






        • 3




          @Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
          – Carlos Danger
          2 days ago










        • There is a comment on how light could be used but I am not sure if it is the best way using blue light.
          – Muze
          yesterday
















        Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
        – Muze
        2 days ago




        Thank you if Ok I may add illustration of this?
        – Muze
        2 days ago












        @Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
        – Carlos Danger
        2 days ago




        @Muze are you talking about taking a figure from the paper? If so, you'd need copyright permission from IEEE
        – Carlos Danger
        2 days ago




        3




        3




        @Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
        – Carlos Danger
        2 days ago




        @Muze just go to scholar.google.com and search "underwater acoustic communications". You will find a lot of papers on the subject
        – Carlos Danger
        2 days ago












        There is a comment on how light could be used but I am not sure if it is the best way using blue light.
        – Muze
        yesterday




        There is a comment on how light could be used but I am not sure if it is the best way using blue light.
        – Muze
        yesterday










        up vote
        5
        down vote













        to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.



        Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.



        Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.



        Fiber optic cables work well too.



        Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.






        share|improve this answer



























          up vote
          5
          down vote













          to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.



          Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.



          Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.



          Fiber optic cables work well too.



          Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.






          share|improve this answer

























            up vote
            5
            down vote










            up vote
            5
            down vote









            to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.



            Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.



            Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.



            Fiber optic cables work well too.



            Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.






            share|improve this answer














            to be picky, RF is strongly attenuated is salt water.



            Fresh water is much less attenuated. During WW2 submerged submarines could use their radios in Lake Michigan.



            Very low frequency RF communications is possible in salt water. The bit rate is very low.



            Fiber optic cables work well too.



            Acoustics tend to be attenuated as well.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 2 days ago

























            answered 2 days ago









            Stanley Pawlukiewicz

            5,8632421




            5,8632421






















                up vote
                4
                down vote













                Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.



                EDIT: You have basically three options for wireless communication in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.



                After a quick search, it seems that sonobuoys seem to have antennas that are kept above the surface to communicate with an aircraft or a ship. This is not an underwater wireless communication. The goal of underwater acoustic systems is to exchange information "wirelessly" between nodes underwater, and then with a central node at the surface that uses RF signals to communication with a center for further analysis/decisions.






                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                BlackMath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                • but is the best method?
                  – Muze
                  2 days ago










                • Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
                  – BlackMath
                  2 days ago






                • 1




                  @Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
                  – BlackMath
                  2 days ago








                • 1




                  sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
                  – Stanley Pawlukiewicz
                  2 days ago






                • 1




                  I certainly was not suggesting that- my point was to show that that can’t be done underwater specifically (if wavelength was the only issue and not the loss factors irregardless of wavelength then we could do that as we do in air.
                  – Dan Boschen
                  2 days ago















                up vote
                4
                down vote













                Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.



                EDIT: You have basically three options for wireless communication in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.



                After a quick search, it seems that sonobuoys seem to have antennas that are kept above the surface to communicate with an aircraft or a ship. This is not an underwater wireless communication. The goal of underwater acoustic systems is to exchange information "wirelessly" between nodes underwater, and then with a central node at the surface that uses RF signals to communication with a center for further analysis/decisions.






                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                BlackMath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                • but is the best method?
                  – Muze
                  2 days ago










                • Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
                  – BlackMath
                  2 days ago






                • 1




                  @Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
                  – BlackMath
                  2 days ago








                • 1




                  sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
                  – Stanley Pawlukiewicz
                  2 days ago






                • 1




                  I certainly was not suggesting that- my point was to show that that can’t be done underwater specifically (if wavelength was the only issue and not the loss factors irregardless of wavelength then we could do that as we do in air.
                  – Dan Boschen
                  2 days ago













                up vote
                4
                down vote










                up vote
                4
                down vote









                Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.



                EDIT: You have basically three options for wireless communication in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.



                After a quick search, it seems that sonobuoys seem to have antennas that are kept above the surface to communicate with an aircraft or a ship. This is not an underwater wireless communication. The goal of underwater acoustic systems is to exchange information "wirelessly" between nodes underwater, and then with a central node at the surface that uses RF signals to communication with a center for further analysis/decisions.






                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                BlackMath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                Yes, actually sound waves are better than RF signal in underwater, because of the low frequency requirement. We don't covert sound waves to radio signals. The transceiver in this case is called transducer.



                EDIT: You have basically three options for wireless communication in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.



                After a quick search, it seems that sonobuoys seem to have antennas that are kept above the surface to communicate with an aircraft or a ship. This is not an underwater wireless communication. The goal of underwater acoustic systems is to exchange information "wirelessly" between nodes underwater, and then with a central node at the surface that uses RF signals to communication with a center for further analysis/decisions.







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                edited 2 days ago





















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                answered 2 days ago









                BlackMath

                472




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                • but is the best method?
                  – Muze
                  2 days ago










                • Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
                  – BlackMath
                  2 days ago






                • 1




                  @Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
                  – BlackMath
                  2 days ago








                • 1




                  sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
                  – Stanley Pawlukiewicz
                  2 days ago






                • 1




                  I certainly was not suggesting that- my point was to show that that can’t be done underwater specifically (if wavelength was the only issue and not the loss factors irregardless of wavelength then we could do that as we do in air.
                  – Dan Boschen
                  2 days ago


















                • but is the best method?
                  – Muze
                  2 days ago










                • Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
                  – BlackMath
                  2 days ago






                • 1




                  @Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
                  – BlackMath
                  2 days ago








                • 1




                  sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
                  – Stanley Pawlukiewicz
                  2 days ago






                • 1




                  I certainly was not suggesting that- my point was to show that that can’t be done underwater specifically (if wavelength was the only issue and not the loss factors irregardless of wavelength then we could do that as we do in air.
                  – Dan Boschen
                  2 days ago
















                but is the best method?
                – Muze
                2 days ago




                but is the best method?
                – Muze
                2 days ago












                Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
                – BlackMath
                2 days ago




                Yes, because RF signals have high path loss in underwater, and low frequency signals mean very large antennas, which require more space and more power.
                – BlackMath
                2 days ago




                1




                1




                @Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
                – BlackMath
                2 days ago






                @Muze You have basically three options in underwater: RF signals, acoustic signals, and optical signals. RF signals suffer from large path loss, and the range of transmission is in meters. Optical signals suffer from scattering. Acoustic signals suffer from low propagation speed (~1500 m/s), but the transmission range is better than RF signals. Also, you don't need large antennas when transmitting low frequency acoustic signals, which is the case for RF signals. The bandwidth can be increased by using relay-assisted systems.
                – BlackMath
                2 days ago






                1




                1




                sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
                – Stanley Pawlukiewicz
                2 days ago




                sonobuoys convert sound to rf.
                – Stanley Pawlukiewicz
                2 days ago




                1




                1




                I certainly was not suggesting that- my point was to show that that can’t be done underwater specifically (if wavelength was the only issue and not the loss factors irregardless of wavelength then we could do that as we do in air.
                – Dan Boschen
                2 days ago




                I certainly was not suggesting that- my point was to show that that can’t be done underwater specifically (if wavelength was the only issue and not the loss factors irregardless of wavelength then we could do that as we do in air.
                – Dan Boschen
                2 days ago










                up vote
                3
                down vote













                You have 3 ways of communicating underwater



                1) Acoustic : Most popular means of communication. Has high latency but good range



                2) Low frequency RF. To increase the range you have to lower the frequency, which means small bandwidth, so you can't transmit a lot of information.



                3) Optical: Low latency + High bandwidth but the range is limited to less than ~100 meters






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                • Your optical is really quite wrong. Fibre optic cables are the goto for communications across the Atlantic; and while they do have repeaters, the range is quite a lot more than 100m.
                  – UKMonkey
                  yesterday






                • 2




                  @UKMonkey these are the methods that use water as the transmission medium , I assumed OP was interested in wireless underwater communication
                  – Spatula
                  yesterday

















                up vote
                3
                down vote













                You have 3 ways of communicating underwater



                1) Acoustic : Most popular means of communication. Has high latency but good range



                2) Low frequency RF. To increase the range you have to lower the frequency, which means small bandwidth, so you can't transmit a lot of information.



                3) Optical: Low latency + High bandwidth but the range is limited to less than ~100 meters






                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Spatula is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                • Your optical is really quite wrong. Fibre optic cables are the goto for communications across the Atlantic; and while they do have repeaters, the range is quite a lot more than 100m.
                  – UKMonkey
                  yesterday






                • 2




                  @UKMonkey these are the methods that use water as the transmission medium , I assumed OP was interested in wireless underwater communication
                  – Spatula
                  yesterday















                up vote
                3
                down vote










                up vote
                3
                down vote









                You have 3 ways of communicating underwater



                1) Acoustic : Most popular means of communication. Has high latency but good range



                2) Low frequency RF. To increase the range you have to lower the frequency, which means small bandwidth, so you can't transmit a lot of information.



                3) Optical: Low latency + High bandwidth but the range is limited to less than ~100 meters






                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Spatula is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                You have 3 ways of communicating underwater



                1) Acoustic : Most popular means of communication. Has high latency but good range



                2) Low frequency RF. To increase the range you have to lower the frequency, which means small bandwidth, so you can't transmit a lot of information.



                3) Optical: Low latency + High bandwidth but the range is limited to less than ~100 meters







                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Spatula is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer






                New contributor




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                answered yesterday









                Spatula

                311




                311




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                New contributor





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                • Your optical is really quite wrong. Fibre optic cables are the goto for communications across the Atlantic; and while they do have repeaters, the range is quite a lot more than 100m.
                  – UKMonkey
                  yesterday






                • 2




                  @UKMonkey these are the methods that use water as the transmission medium , I assumed OP was interested in wireless underwater communication
                  – Spatula
                  yesterday




















                • Your optical is really quite wrong. Fibre optic cables are the goto for communications across the Atlantic; and while they do have repeaters, the range is quite a lot more than 100m.
                  – UKMonkey
                  yesterday






                • 2




                  @UKMonkey these are the methods that use water as the transmission medium , I assumed OP was interested in wireless underwater communication
                  – Spatula
                  yesterday


















                Your optical is really quite wrong. Fibre optic cables are the goto for communications across the Atlantic; and while they do have repeaters, the range is quite a lot more than 100m.
                – UKMonkey
                yesterday




                Your optical is really quite wrong. Fibre optic cables are the goto for communications across the Atlantic; and while they do have repeaters, the range is quite a lot more than 100m.
                – UKMonkey
                yesterday




                2




                2




                @UKMonkey these are the methods that use water as the transmission medium , I assumed OP was interested in wireless underwater communication
                – Spatula
                yesterday






                @UKMonkey these are the methods that use water as the transmission medium , I assumed OP was interested in wireless underwater communication
                – Spatula
                yesterday












                up vote
                2
                down vote













                This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.






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                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.






                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




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                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote









                    This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.






                    share|improve this answer








                    New contributor




                    Octopuscabbage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                    This is incredibly common in aquatic robotics. There are multiple uses for underwater acoustic communication such as data transfer, localization to a surface vessel, mission control etc.







                    share|improve this answer








                    New contributor




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                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer






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                    answered 2 days ago









                    Octopuscabbage

                    211




                    211




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                    New contributor





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                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        From a data transference point of view, yes; RF signals don't last well in salt water, whereas sound travels considerably better.



                        But...



                        If you're planning to try this on Earth, be aware that oceanic noise pollution is a problem, and if you need to communicate over large distances you'll need to make a loud noise. Consider using RF first; you'll get a low bit-rate, but it might be a better way to transfer the signal if the acoustic bands are already being used by marine life.






                        share|improve this answer

























                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          From a data transference point of view, yes; RF signals don't last well in salt water, whereas sound travels considerably better.



                          But...



                          If you're planning to try this on Earth, be aware that oceanic noise pollution is a problem, and if you need to communicate over large distances you'll need to make a loud noise. Consider using RF first; you'll get a low bit-rate, but it might be a better way to transfer the signal if the acoustic bands are already being used by marine life.






                          share|improve this answer























                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote









                            From a data transference point of view, yes; RF signals don't last well in salt water, whereas sound travels considerably better.



                            But...



                            If you're planning to try this on Earth, be aware that oceanic noise pollution is a problem, and if you need to communicate over large distances you'll need to make a loud noise. Consider using RF first; you'll get a low bit-rate, but it might be a better way to transfer the signal if the acoustic bands are already being used by marine life.






                            share|improve this answer












                            From a data transference point of view, yes; RF signals don't last well in salt water, whereas sound travels considerably better.



                            But...



                            If you're planning to try this on Earth, be aware that oceanic noise pollution is a problem, and if you need to communicate over large distances you'll need to make a loud noise. Consider using RF first; you'll get a low bit-rate, but it might be a better way to transfer the signal if the acoustic bands are already being used by marine life.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered yesterday









                            wizzwizz4

                            1114




                            1114






























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