Probablity of drawing all the red balls while blue and green are still left











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Suppose that a box contains 10 red balls, 20 green balls, and 30 blue balls.



Suppose also that balls are drawn from the box one at a time at random.



What is the probability that all the red balls are drawn before the blue or green balls are themselves exhausted. What is the probability that as the last red ball is drawn, there remains at least one blue and one green left in the box.



The answer I was given is $dfrac{7}{12}$ and a general equation is:
$$
dfrac{b g}{1-b}+dfrac{b g}{1-g}
$$ where
$$
g=dfrac{20}{60},b=dfrac{30}{60}
$$
but why?










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  • 2




    Your claimed answer makes no sense. Even if we draw only one ball out of the $60$ total, the probability that this ball is red will be only $10/60 = 1/6$, which is much smaller than $7/12$; and the probability of getting more than one red ball for multiple draws without replacement cannot possibly exceed $1/6$.
    – heropup
    Jun 19 '14 at 6:02






  • 1




    Perhaps he means the probability that all 10 red balls are selected before all 20 greens or all 30 blues? Not that the probability of that happening is necessarily 7/12.
    – Avraham
    Jun 19 '14 at 6:05

















up vote
3
down vote

favorite












Suppose that a box contains 10 red balls, 20 green balls, and 30 blue balls.



Suppose also that balls are drawn from the box one at a time at random.



What is the probability that all the red balls are drawn before the blue or green balls are themselves exhausted. What is the probability that as the last red ball is drawn, there remains at least one blue and one green left in the box.



The answer I was given is $dfrac{7}{12}$ and a general equation is:
$$
dfrac{b g}{1-b}+dfrac{b g}{1-g}
$$ where
$$
g=dfrac{20}{60},b=dfrac{30}{60}
$$
but why?










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 2




    Your claimed answer makes no sense. Even if we draw only one ball out of the $60$ total, the probability that this ball is red will be only $10/60 = 1/6$, which is much smaller than $7/12$; and the probability of getting more than one red ball for multiple draws without replacement cannot possibly exceed $1/6$.
    – heropup
    Jun 19 '14 at 6:02






  • 1




    Perhaps he means the probability that all 10 red balls are selected before all 20 greens or all 30 blues? Not that the probability of that happening is necessarily 7/12.
    – Avraham
    Jun 19 '14 at 6:05















up vote
3
down vote

favorite









up vote
3
down vote

favorite











Suppose that a box contains 10 red balls, 20 green balls, and 30 blue balls.



Suppose also that balls are drawn from the box one at a time at random.



What is the probability that all the red balls are drawn before the blue or green balls are themselves exhausted. What is the probability that as the last red ball is drawn, there remains at least one blue and one green left in the box.



The answer I was given is $dfrac{7}{12}$ and a general equation is:
$$
dfrac{b g}{1-b}+dfrac{b g}{1-g}
$$ where
$$
g=dfrac{20}{60},b=dfrac{30}{60}
$$
but why?










share|cite|improve this question















Suppose that a box contains 10 red balls, 20 green balls, and 30 blue balls.



Suppose also that balls are drawn from the box one at a time at random.



What is the probability that all the red balls are drawn before the blue or green balls are themselves exhausted. What is the probability that as the last red ball is drawn, there remains at least one blue and one green left in the box.



The answer I was given is $dfrac{7}{12}$ and a general equation is:
$$
dfrac{b g}{1-b}+dfrac{b g}{1-g}
$$ where
$$
g=dfrac{20}{60},b=dfrac{30}{60}
$$
but why?







probability probability-theory






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edited Jun 19 '14 at 15:22









Avraham

2,5071131




2,5071131










asked Jun 19 '14 at 5:55









LCFactorization

1,107618




1,107618








  • 2




    Your claimed answer makes no sense. Even if we draw only one ball out of the $60$ total, the probability that this ball is red will be only $10/60 = 1/6$, which is much smaller than $7/12$; and the probability of getting more than one red ball for multiple draws without replacement cannot possibly exceed $1/6$.
    – heropup
    Jun 19 '14 at 6:02






  • 1




    Perhaps he means the probability that all 10 red balls are selected before all 20 greens or all 30 blues? Not that the probability of that happening is necessarily 7/12.
    – Avraham
    Jun 19 '14 at 6:05
















  • 2




    Your claimed answer makes no sense. Even if we draw only one ball out of the $60$ total, the probability that this ball is red will be only $10/60 = 1/6$, which is much smaller than $7/12$; and the probability of getting more than one red ball for multiple draws without replacement cannot possibly exceed $1/6$.
    – heropup
    Jun 19 '14 at 6:02






  • 1




    Perhaps he means the probability that all 10 red balls are selected before all 20 greens or all 30 blues? Not that the probability of that happening is necessarily 7/12.
    – Avraham
    Jun 19 '14 at 6:05










2




2




Your claimed answer makes no sense. Even if we draw only one ball out of the $60$ total, the probability that this ball is red will be only $10/60 = 1/6$, which is much smaller than $7/12$; and the probability of getting more than one red ball for multiple draws without replacement cannot possibly exceed $1/6$.
– heropup
Jun 19 '14 at 6:02




Your claimed answer makes no sense. Even if we draw only one ball out of the $60$ total, the probability that this ball is red will be only $10/60 = 1/6$, which is much smaller than $7/12$; and the probability of getting more than one red ball for multiple draws without replacement cannot possibly exceed $1/6$.
– heropup
Jun 19 '14 at 6:02




1




1




Perhaps he means the probability that all 10 red balls are selected before all 20 greens or all 30 blues? Not that the probability of that happening is necessarily 7/12.
– Avraham
Jun 19 '14 at 6:05






Perhaps he means the probability that all 10 red balls are selected before all 20 greens or all 30 blues? Not that the probability of that happening is necessarily 7/12.
– Avraham
Jun 19 '14 at 6:05












3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
12
down vote



accepted










Looking at the final balls is the way to go, as you can regard drawing all $60$ balls as choosing one of the equally probable permutation. Working from the back, you can also ignore a colour once it has been drawn.



The probability that the last ball is blue and that the last green comes after the last red is $dfrac{30}{10+20+30}times dfrac{20}{10+20} =dfrac{1}{3}$ or more generally $b times dfrac{g}{1-b}$.



The probability that the last ball is green and that the last blue comes after the last red is $dfrac{20}{10+20+30}times dfrac{30}{10+30} =dfrac{1}{4}$ or more generally $g times dfrac{b}{1-g}$.



So the probability that all reds are drawn before the final blue and final green are drawn is $dfrac{1}{3}+dfrac{1}{4}=dfrac{7}{12}$ or more generally $ dfrac{bg}{1-b} + dfrac{bg}{1-g}$.






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    up vote
    3
    down vote













    Edit



    The following gives the probability of draw the all red balls before any ball of other colour. It is not the asked answer and it is due to a misunderstanding.



    There is only one possibility to choose all $10$ red balls if we draw $10$ ball. The number of possible ways to draw $10$ balls is $binom{60}{10}.$ Thus the probability is



    $$frac{1}{binom{60}{10}}approx 1.3263 cdot 10^{-11}.$$






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • this is not the right answer.
      – LCFactorization
      Jun 19 '14 at 7:58






    • 1




      It is the answer to a different question, answering "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before any blue balls or green balls are drawn". The original question is closer to "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before the last blue ball and last green ball are drawn".
      – Henry
      Jun 19 '14 at 8:41










    • You are right, I misunderstood the question.
      – mfl
      Jun 19 '14 at 12:25










    • I edited the question to make it clearer.
      – Avraham
      Jun 19 '14 at 16:30


















    up vote
    1
    down vote













    You might be able to prove it by induction. Let $P(R,B,G)$ be the probability that reds are the first to go given $R$ reds, $B$ blues and $G$ greens. It is easy to check your formula for $P(1,1,1)$. Note also that $P(R,B,0)=0$.



    Now suppose your formula is true for $P(R,B,G)$ whenever $R+B+Gle N$. Then $$P(R+1,B,G)=frac{R+1}{R+1+B+G}P(R,B,G)+frac{B}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B-1,G)+frac{G}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B,G-1)$$
    and now you can check the formula is true when $R+B+G=N+1$.






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • Your "note that $P(R, B, 0) = 0$" should start all alarms ringing: as OP isn't interested in blue/green balls, their colors are irrelevant, and $P(R, B, G) = P(R, B + G, 0)$
      – vonbrand
      Jun 19 '14 at 8:01






    • 1




      No, I think that if you have run out of green balls, then you didn't run out of red first. In the same way, I think $P(0,B,G)=1$
      – Empy2
      Jun 19 '14 at 9:32











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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






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    active

    oldest

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    active

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    up vote
    12
    down vote



    accepted










    Looking at the final balls is the way to go, as you can regard drawing all $60$ balls as choosing one of the equally probable permutation. Working from the back, you can also ignore a colour once it has been drawn.



    The probability that the last ball is blue and that the last green comes after the last red is $dfrac{30}{10+20+30}times dfrac{20}{10+20} =dfrac{1}{3}$ or more generally $b times dfrac{g}{1-b}$.



    The probability that the last ball is green and that the last blue comes after the last red is $dfrac{20}{10+20+30}times dfrac{30}{10+30} =dfrac{1}{4}$ or more generally $g times dfrac{b}{1-g}$.



    So the probability that all reds are drawn before the final blue and final green are drawn is $dfrac{1}{3}+dfrac{1}{4}=dfrac{7}{12}$ or more generally $ dfrac{bg}{1-b} + dfrac{bg}{1-g}$.






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      12
      down vote



      accepted










      Looking at the final balls is the way to go, as you can regard drawing all $60$ balls as choosing one of the equally probable permutation. Working from the back, you can also ignore a colour once it has been drawn.



      The probability that the last ball is blue and that the last green comes after the last red is $dfrac{30}{10+20+30}times dfrac{20}{10+20} =dfrac{1}{3}$ or more generally $b times dfrac{g}{1-b}$.



      The probability that the last ball is green and that the last blue comes after the last red is $dfrac{20}{10+20+30}times dfrac{30}{10+30} =dfrac{1}{4}$ or more generally $g times dfrac{b}{1-g}$.



      So the probability that all reds are drawn before the final blue and final green are drawn is $dfrac{1}{3}+dfrac{1}{4}=dfrac{7}{12}$ or more generally $ dfrac{bg}{1-b} + dfrac{bg}{1-g}$.






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        12
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        12
        down vote



        accepted






        Looking at the final balls is the way to go, as you can regard drawing all $60$ balls as choosing one of the equally probable permutation. Working from the back, you can also ignore a colour once it has been drawn.



        The probability that the last ball is blue and that the last green comes after the last red is $dfrac{30}{10+20+30}times dfrac{20}{10+20} =dfrac{1}{3}$ or more generally $b times dfrac{g}{1-b}$.



        The probability that the last ball is green and that the last blue comes after the last red is $dfrac{20}{10+20+30}times dfrac{30}{10+30} =dfrac{1}{4}$ or more generally $g times dfrac{b}{1-g}$.



        So the probability that all reds are drawn before the final blue and final green are drawn is $dfrac{1}{3}+dfrac{1}{4}=dfrac{7}{12}$ or more generally $ dfrac{bg}{1-b} + dfrac{bg}{1-g}$.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        Looking at the final balls is the way to go, as you can regard drawing all $60$ balls as choosing one of the equally probable permutation. Working from the back, you can also ignore a colour once it has been drawn.



        The probability that the last ball is blue and that the last green comes after the last red is $dfrac{30}{10+20+30}times dfrac{20}{10+20} =dfrac{1}{3}$ or more generally $b times dfrac{g}{1-b}$.



        The probability that the last ball is green and that the last blue comes after the last red is $dfrac{20}{10+20+30}times dfrac{30}{10+30} =dfrac{1}{4}$ or more generally $g times dfrac{b}{1-g}$.



        So the probability that all reds are drawn before the final blue and final green are drawn is $dfrac{1}{3}+dfrac{1}{4}=dfrac{7}{12}$ or more generally $ dfrac{bg}{1-b} + dfrac{bg}{1-g}$.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Jun 19 '14 at 8:29









        Henry

        97k474154




        97k474154






















            up vote
            3
            down vote













            Edit



            The following gives the probability of draw the all red balls before any ball of other colour. It is not the asked answer and it is due to a misunderstanding.



            There is only one possibility to choose all $10$ red balls if we draw $10$ ball. The number of possible ways to draw $10$ balls is $binom{60}{10}.$ Thus the probability is



            $$frac{1}{binom{60}{10}}approx 1.3263 cdot 10^{-11}.$$






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • this is not the right answer.
              – LCFactorization
              Jun 19 '14 at 7:58






            • 1




              It is the answer to a different question, answering "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before any blue balls or green balls are drawn". The original question is closer to "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before the last blue ball and last green ball are drawn".
              – Henry
              Jun 19 '14 at 8:41










            • You are right, I misunderstood the question.
              – mfl
              Jun 19 '14 at 12:25










            • I edited the question to make it clearer.
              – Avraham
              Jun 19 '14 at 16:30















            up vote
            3
            down vote













            Edit



            The following gives the probability of draw the all red balls before any ball of other colour. It is not the asked answer and it is due to a misunderstanding.



            There is only one possibility to choose all $10$ red balls if we draw $10$ ball. The number of possible ways to draw $10$ balls is $binom{60}{10}.$ Thus the probability is



            $$frac{1}{binom{60}{10}}approx 1.3263 cdot 10^{-11}.$$






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • this is not the right answer.
              – LCFactorization
              Jun 19 '14 at 7:58






            • 1




              It is the answer to a different question, answering "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before any blue balls or green balls are drawn". The original question is closer to "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before the last blue ball and last green ball are drawn".
              – Henry
              Jun 19 '14 at 8:41










            • You are right, I misunderstood the question.
              – mfl
              Jun 19 '14 at 12:25










            • I edited the question to make it clearer.
              – Avraham
              Jun 19 '14 at 16:30













            up vote
            3
            down vote










            up vote
            3
            down vote









            Edit



            The following gives the probability of draw the all red balls before any ball of other colour. It is not the asked answer and it is due to a misunderstanding.



            There is only one possibility to choose all $10$ red balls if we draw $10$ ball. The number of possible ways to draw $10$ balls is $binom{60}{10}.$ Thus the probability is



            $$frac{1}{binom{60}{10}}approx 1.3263 cdot 10^{-11}.$$






            share|cite|improve this answer














            Edit



            The following gives the probability of draw the all red balls before any ball of other colour. It is not the asked answer and it is due to a misunderstanding.



            There is only one possibility to choose all $10$ red balls if we draw $10$ ball. The number of possible ways to draw $10$ balls is $binom{60}{10}.$ Thus the probability is



            $$frac{1}{binom{60}{10}}approx 1.3263 cdot 10^{-11}.$$







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Jun 19 '14 at 12:28

























            answered Jun 19 '14 at 6:09









            mfl

            26k12141




            26k12141












            • this is not the right answer.
              – LCFactorization
              Jun 19 '14 at 7:58






            • 1




              It is the answer to a different question, answering "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before any blue balls or green balls are drawn". The original question is closer to "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before the last blue ball and last green ball are drawn".
              – Henry
              Jun 19 '14 at 8:41










            • You are right, I misunderstood the question.
              – mfl
              Jun 19 '14 at 12:25










            • I edited the question to make it clearer.
              – Avraham
              Jun 19 '14 at 16:30


















            • this is not the right answer.
              – LCFactorization
              Jun 19 '14 at 7:58






            • 1




              It is the answer to a different question, answering "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before any blue balls or green balls are drawn". The original question is closer to "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before the last blue ball and last green ball are drawn".
              – Henry
              Jun 19 '14 at 8:41










            • You are right, I misunderstood the question.
              – mfl
              Jun 19 '14 at 12:25










            • I edited the question to make it clearer.
              – Avraham
              Jun 19 '14 at 16:30
















            this is not the right answer.
            – LCFactorization
            Jun 19 '14 at 7:58




            this is not the right answer.
            – LCFactorization
            Jun 19 '14 at 7:58




            1




            1




            It is the answer to a different question, answering "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before any blue balls or green balls are drawn". The original question is closer to "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before the last blue ball and last green ball are drawn".
            – Henry
            Jun 19 '14 at 8:41




            It is the answer to a different question, answering "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before any blue balls or green balls are drawn". The original question is closer to "what is the probability that the last red ball is drawn before the last blue ball and last green ball are drawn".
            – Henry
            Jun 19 '14 at 8:41












            You are right, I misunderstood the question.
            – mfl
            Jun 19 '14 at 12:25




            You are right, I misunderstood the question.
            – mfl
            Jun 19 '14 at 12:25












            I edited the question to make it clearer.
            – Avraham
            Jun 19 '14 at 16:30




            I edited the question to make it clearer.
            – Avraham
            Jun 19 '14 at 16:30










            up vote
            1
            down vote













            You might be able to prove it by induction. Let $P(R,B,G)$ be the probability that reds are the first to go given $R$ reds, $B$ blues and $G$ greens. It is easy to check your formula for $P(1,1,1)$. Note also that $P(R,B,0)=0$.



            Now suppose your formula is true for $P(R,B,G)$ whenever $R+B+Gle N$. Then $$P(R+1,B,G)=frac{R+1}{R+1+B+G}P(R,B,G)+frac{B}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B-1,G)+frac{G}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B,G-1)$$
            and now you can check the formula is true when $R+B+G=N+1$.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • Your "note that $P(R, B, 0) = 0$" should start all alarms ringing: as OP isn't interested in blue/green balls, their colors are irrelevant, and $P(R, B, G) = P(R, B + G, 0)$
              – vonbrand
              Jun 19 '14 at 8:01






            • 1




              No, I think that if you have run out of green balls, then you didn't run out of red first. In the same way, I think $P(0,B,G)=1$
              – Empy2
              Jun 19 '14 at 9:32















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            You might be able to prove it by induction. Let $P(R,B,G)$ be the probability that reds are the first to go given $R$ reds, $B$ blues and $G$ greens. It is easy to check your formula for $P(1,1,1)$. Note also that $P(R,B,0)=0$.



            Now suppose your formula is true for $P(R,B,G)$ whenever $R+B+Gle N$. Then $$P(R+1,B,G)=frac{R+1}{R+1+B+G}P(R,B,G)+frac{B}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B-1,G)+frac{G}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B,G-1)$$
            and now you can check the formula is true when $R+B+G=N+1$.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • Your "note that $P(R, B, 0) = 0$" should start all alarms ringing: as OP isn't interested in blue/green balls, their colors are irrelevant, and $P(R, B, G) = P(R, B + G, 0)$
              – vonbrand
              Jun 19 '14 at 8:01






            • 1




              No, I think that if you have run out of green balls, then you didn't run out of red first. In the same way, I think $P(0,B,G)=1$
              – Empy2
              Jun 19 '14 at 9:32













            up vote
            1
            down vote










            up vote
            1
            down vote









            You might be able to prove it by induction. Let $P(R,B,G)$ be the probability that reds are the first to go given $R$ reds, $B$ blues and $G$ greens. It is easy to check your formula for $P(1,1,1)$. Note also that $P(R,B,0)=0$.



            Now suppose your formula is true for $P(R,B,G)$ whenever $R+B+Gle N$. Then $$P(R+1,B,G)=frac{R+1}{R+1+B+G}P(R,B,G)+frac{B}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B-1,G)+frac{G}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B,G-1)$$
            and now you can check the formula is true when $R+B+G=N+1$.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            You might be able to prove it by induction. Let $P(R,B,G)$ be the probability that reds are the first to go given $R$ reds, $B$ blues and $G$ greens. It is easy to check your formula for $P(1,1,1)$. Note also that $P(R,B,0)=0$.



            Now suppose your formula is true for $P(R,B,G)$ whenever $R+B+Gle N$. Then $$P(R+1,B,G)=frac{R+1}{R+1+B+G}P(R,B,G)+frac{B}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B-1,G)+frac{G}{R+1+B+G}P(R+1,B,G-1)$$
            and now you can check the formula is true when $R+B+G=N+1$.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Jun 19 '14 at 6:45

























            answered Jun 19 '14 at 6:25









            Empy2

            33.3k12261




            33.3k12261












            • Your "note that $P(R, B, 0) = 0$" should start all alarms ringing: as OP isn't interested in blue/green balls, their colors are irrelevant, and $P(R, B, G) = P(R, B + G, 0)$
              – vonbrand
              Jun 19 '14 at 8:01






            • 1




              No, I think that if you have run out of green balls, then you didn't run out of red first. In the same way, I think $P(0,B,G)=1$
              – Empy2
              Jun 19 '14 at 9:32


















            • Your "note that $P(R, B, 0) = 0$" should start all alarms ringing: as OP isn't interested in blue/green balls, their colors are irrelevant, and $P(R, B, G) = P(R, B + G, 0)$
              – vonbrand
              Jun 19 '14 at 8:01






            • 1




              No, I think that if you have run out of green balls, then you didn't run out of red first. In the same way, I think $P(0,B,G)=1$
              – Empy2
              Jun 19 '14 at 9:32
















            Your "note that $P(R, B, 0) = 0$" should start all alarms ringing: as OP isn't interested in blue/green balls, their colors are irrelevant, and $P(R, B, G) = P(R, B + G, 0)$
            – vonbrand
            Jun 19 '14 at 8:01




            Your "note that $P(R, B, 0) = 0$" should start all alarms ringing: as OP isn't interested in blue/green balls, their colors are irrelevant, and $P(R, B, G) = P(R, B + G, 0)$
            – vonbrand
            Jun 19 '14 at 8:01




            1




            1




            No, I think that if you have run out of green balls, then you didn't run out of red first. In the same way, I think $P(0,B,G)=1$
            – Empy2
            Jun 19 '14 at 9:32




            No, I think that if you have run out of green balls, then you didn't run out of red first. In the same way, I think $P(0,B,G)=1$
            – Empy2
            Jun 19 '14 at 9:32


















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