RoS is a equivalence relation iff RoS = SoR











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Let R and S be two equivalence relation on X.



I wanna prove that $Rcirc S$ is an equivalence relation, but I can't prove that it is reflexive and transitive.



For transitivity:



There are arbitrary $x$ and $y$ with $(x,y)in Rcirc S iff$ there is $z$ with $(x,z)in R$ and $(z,y)in S$ ...?



And where I have to use the $Rcirc S=Scirc R$?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • What does "o" mean here?
    – Jean-Claude Arbaut
    Nov 21 at 13:06










  • @Jean-ClaudeArbaut The composition of relatios. look at the definition here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_relations
    – Yahya
    Nov 21 at 13:09










  • I didn't know (or remember) this one. Thanks.
    – Jean-Claude Arbaut
    Nov 21 at 13:10

















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












Let R and S be two equivalence relation on X.



I wanna prove that $Rcirc S$ is an equivalence relation, but I can't prove that it is reflexive and transitive.



For transitivity:



There are arbitrary $x$ and $y$ with $(x,y)in Rcirc S iff$ there is $z$ with $(x,z)in R$ and $(z,y)in S$ ...?



And where I have to use the $Rcirc S=Scirc R$?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • What does "o" mean here?
    – Jean-Claude Arbaut
    Nov 21 at 13:06










  • @Jean-ClaudeArbaut The composition of relatios. look at the definition here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_relations
    – Yahya
    Nov 21 at 13:09










  • I didn't know (or remember) this one. Thanks.
    – Jean-Claude Arbaut
    Nov 21 at 13:10















up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











Let R and S be two equivalence relation on X.



I wanna prove that $Rcirc S$ is an equivalence relation, but I can't prove that it is reflexive and transitive.



For transitivity:



There are arbitrary $x$ and $y$ with $(x,y)in Rcirc S iff$ there is $z$ with $(x,z)in R$ and $(z,y)in S$ ...?



And where I have to use the $Rcirc S=Scirc R$?










share|cite|improve this question















Let R and S be two equivalence relation on X.



I wanna prove that $Rcirc S$ is an equivalence relation, but I can't prove that it is reflexive and transitive.



For transitivity:



There are arbitrary $x$ and $y$ with $(x,y)in Rcirc S iff$ there is $z$ with $(x,z)in R$ and $(z,y)in S$ ...?



And where I have to use the $Rcirc S=Scirc R$?







elementary-set-theory equivalence-relations






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share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 21 at 13:35









Fumera

235




235










asked Nov 21 at 12:55









Yahya

175




175












  • What does "o" mean here?
    – Jean-Claude Arbaut
    Nov 21 at 13:06










  • @Jean-ClaudeArbaut The composition of relatios. look at the definition here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_relations
    – Yahya
    Nov 21 at 13:09










  • I didn't know (or remember) this one. Thanks.
    – Jean-Claude Arbaut
    Nov 21 at 13:10




















  • What does "o" mean here?
    – Jean-Claude Arbaut
    Nov 21 at 13:06










  • @Jean-ClaudeArbaut The composition of relatios. look at the definition here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_relations
    – Yahya
    Nov 21 at 13:09










  • I didn't know (or remember) this one. Thanks.
    – Jean-Claude Arbaut
    Nov 21 at 13:10


















What does "o" mean here?
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:06




What does "o" mean here?
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:06












@Jean-ClaudeArbaut The composition of relatios. look at the definition here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_relations
– Yahya
Nov 21 at 13:09




@Jean-ClaudeArbaut The composition of relatios. look at the definition here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_relations
– Yahya
Nov 21 at 13:09












I didn't know (or remember) this one. Thanks.
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:10






I didn't know (or remember) this one. Thanks.
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:10












1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote













I use the notation $xRy$ instead of $(x,y)in R$. In particular, $xRSy$ means $xRaSy$ for some $a$. It is also convenient to write $xRySz$ instead of ($xRy$ and $yRz$). In general I would advise you do draw such relations as graphs, with vertices representing points, and edges denoting the relationship.



Assumption $Rcirc S=Scirc R$.



Transitivity: Suppose $xRSy$ and $yRSz$, i.e. $xRaSy$ and $yRbSz$ for some $a,b$.
Then $aSyRb$, or short, $aSRb$. Since $SR=RS$, we get $aRSb$, let's say $aRcSb$ for some $c$. But then
$xRaRcSbSz$, and since $R,S$ are equivalence relations, $xRcSz$, so $xRSz$.



I am confident that you can now prove reflexivity by yourself.



Assumption $Rcirc S$ is an equivalence relation.



This direction is very similar to the proof above, you should give it a try.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • The end of line 2: "But then xRaRcSbSz" I can't understand here. And I have tried to prove reflexivity but I couldn't prove it.
    – Yahya
    Nov 21 at 13:45











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1 Answer
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active

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up vote
1
down vote













I use the notation $xRy$ instead of $(x,y)in R$. In particular, $xRSy$ means $xRaSy$ for some $a$. It is also convenient to write $xRySz$ instead of ($xRy$ and $yRz$). In general I would advise you do draw such relations as graphs, with vertices representing points, and edges denoting the relationship.



Assumption $Rcirc S=Scirc R$.



Transitivity: Suppose $xRSy$ and $yRSz$, i.e. $xRaSy$ and $yRbSz$ for some $a,b$.
Then $aSyRb$, or short, $aSRb$. Since $SR=RS$, we get $aRSb$, let's say $aRcSb$ for some $c$. But then
$xRaRcSbSz$, and since $R,S$ are equivalence relations, $xRcSz$, so $xRSz$.



I am confident that you can now prove reflexivity by yourself.



Assumption $Rcirc S$ is an equivalence relation.



This direction is very similar to the proof above, you should give it a try.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • The end of line 2: "But then xRaRcSbSz" I can't understand here. And I have tried to prove reflexivity but I couldn't prove it.
    – Yahya
    Nov 21 at 13:45















up vote
1
down vote













I use the notation $xRy$ instead of $(x,y)in R$. In particular, $xRSy$ means $xRaSy$ for some $a$. It is also convenient to write $xRySz$ instead of ($xRy$ and $yRz$). In general I would advise you do draw such relations as graphs, with vertices representing points, and edges denoting the relationship.



Assumption $Rcirc S=Scirc R$.



Transitivity: Suppose $xRSy$ and $yRSz$, i.e. $xRaSy$ and $yRbSz$ for some $a,b$.
Then $aSyRb$, or short, $aSRb$. Since $SR=RS$, we get $aRSb$, let's say $aRcSb$ for some $c$. But then
$xRaRcSbSz$, and since $R,S$ are equivalence relations, $xRcSz$, so $xRSz$.



I am confident that you can now prove reflexivity by yourself.



Assumption $Rcirc S$ is an equivalence relation.



This direction is very similar to the proof above, you should give it a try.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • The end of line 2: "But then xRaRcSbSz" I can't understand here. And I have tried to prove reflexivity but I couldn't prove it.
    – Yahya
    Nov 21 at 13:45













up vote
1
down vote










up vote
1
down vote









I use the notation $xRy$ instead of $(x,y)in R$. In particular, $xRSy$ means $xRaSy$ for some $a$. It is also convenient to write $xRySz$ instead of ($xRy$ and $yRz$). In general I would advise you do draw such relations as graphs, with vertices representing points, and edges denoting the relationship.



Assumption $Rcirc S=Scirc R$.



Transitivity: Suppose $xRSy$ and $yRSz$, i.e. $xRaSy$ and $yRbSz$ for some $a,b$.
Then $aSyRb$, or short, $aSRb$. Since $SR=RS$, we get $aRSb$, let's say $aRcSb$ for some $c$. But then
$xRaRcSbSz$, and since $R,S$ are equivalence relations, $xRcSz$, so $xRSz$.



I am confident that you can now prove reflexivity by yourself.



Assumption $Rcirc S$ is an equivalence relation.



This direction is very similar to the proof above, you should give it a try.






share|cite|improve this answer














I use the notation $xRy$ instead of $(x,y)in R$. In particular, $xRSy$ means $xRaSy$ for some $a$. It is also convenient to write $xRySz$ instead of ($xRy$ and $yRz$). In general I would advise you do draw such relations as graphs, with vertices representing points, and edges denoting the relationship.



Assumption $Rcirc S=Scirc R$.



Transitivity: Suppose $xRSy$ and $yRSz$, i.e. $xRaSy$ and $yRbSz$ for some $a,b$.
Then $aSyRb$, or short, $aSRb$. Since $SR=RS$, we get $aRSb$, let's say $aRcSb$ for some $c$. But then
$xRaRcSbSz$, and since $R,S$ are equivalence relations, $xRcSz$, so $xRSz$.



I am confident that you can now prove reflexivity by yourself.



Assumption $Rcirc S$ is an equivalence relation.



This direction is very similar to the proof above, you should give it a try.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 21 at 13:26

























answered Nov 21 at 13:21









Fumera

235




235












  • The end of line 2: "But then xRaRcSbSz" I can't understand here. And I have tried to prove reflexivity but I couldn't prove it.
    – Yahya
    Nov 21 at 13:45


















  • The end of line 2: "But then xRaRcSbSz" I can't understand here. And I have tried to prove reflexivity but I couldn't prove it.
    – Yahya
    Nov 21 at 13:45
















The end of line 2: "But then xRaRcSbSz" I can't understand here. And I have tried to prove reflexivity but I couldn't prove it.
– Yahya
Nov 21 at 13:45




The end of line 2: "But then xRaRcSbSz" I can't understand here. And I have tried to prove reflexivity but I couldn't prove it.
– Yahya
Nov 21 at 13:45


















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