When does $Vert AB Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert$?
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Motivation
If $a$ and $b$ are vector, then thinking simply vector 2 norm, $Vert a cdot bVert = Vert bVert Vert aVert cos(a,b) $, we know the difference is simply a ratio between the angle of $a$ and $b$.
More generally, in a Hilbert space, Cauchy inequality holds so
$$|langle a,brangle|^2 le langle a,aranglelangle b,brangle$$
and we know the only when a, b are parallel, the equality is achieved.
Question
Given two square matrix $A$ and $B$,
when does this happen?
$$Vert AB Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert$$
Let's simply assume matrix 2-norm, so $Vert cdot Vert = Vert cdot Vert_2$.
matrices inequality norm matrix-norms
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Motivation
If $a$ and $b$ are vector, then thinking simply vector 2 norm, $Vert a cdot bVert = Vert bVert Vert aVert cos(a,b) $, we know the difference is simply a ratio between the angle of $a$ and $b$.
More generally, in a Hilbert space, Cauchy inequality holds so
$$|langle a,brangle|^2 le langle a,aranglelangle b,brangle$$
and we know the only when a, b are parallel, the equality is achieved.
Question
Given two square matrix $A$ and $B$,
when does this happen?
$$Vert AB Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert$$
Let's simply assume matrix 2-norm, so $Vert cdot Vert = Vert cdot Vert_2$.
matrices inequality norm matrix-norms
What is the 2-norm? The answer will change depending on the norm.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:23
2-norm is just matrix 2-norm or you can say it is an induced norm from the l2 normed vector space. It is the norm from operator sense, treating matrix as an operator.
– ArtificiallyIntelligence
Nov 15 at 23:24
It looks to me you have your definitions missmatched. Check again, you are around a solution, it looks like.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:26
Thank you for posting this question! It saved me from a bad mistake in an answer, where I had written (unnecessarily) $|BC| = |B||C|$, instead of $|BC| leqslant |B||C|$.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 16 at 1:00
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Motivation
If $a$ and $b$ are vector, then thinking simply vector 2 norm, $Vert a cdot bVert = Vert bVert Vert aVert cos(a,b) $, we know the difference is simply a ratio between the angle of $a$ and $b$.
More generally, in a Hilbert space, Cauchy inequality holds so
$$|langle a,brangle|^2 le langle a,aranglelangle b,brangle$$
and we know the only when a, b are parallel, the equality is achieved.
Question
Given two square matrix $A$ and $B$,
when does this happen?
$$Vert AB Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert$$
Let's simply assume matrix 2-norm, so $Vert cdot Vert = Vert cdot Vert_2$.
matrices inequality norm matrix-norms
Motivation
If $a$ and $b$ are vector, then thinking simply vector 2 norm, $Vert a cdot bVert = Vert bVert Vert aVert cos(a,b) $, we know the difference is simply a ratio between the angle of $a$ and $b$.
More generally, in a Hilbert space, Cauchy inequality holds so
$$|langle a,brangle|^2 le langle a,aranglelangle b,brangle$$
and we know the only when a, b are parallel, the equality is achieved.
Question
Given two square matrix $A$ and $B$,
when does this happen?
$$Vert AB Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert$$
Let's simply assume matrix 2-norm, so $Vert cdot Vert = Vert cdot Vert_2$.
matrices inequality norm matrix-norms
matrices inequality norm matrix-norms
asked Nov 15 at 23:11
ArtificiallyIntelligence
250110
250110
What is the 2-norm? The answer will change depending on the norm.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:23
2-norm is just matrix 2-norm or you can say it is an induced norm from the l2 normed vector space. It is the norm from operator sense, treating matrix as an operator.
– ArtificiallyIntelligence
Nov 15 at 23:24
It looks to me you have your definitions missmatched. Check again, you are around a solution, it looks like.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:26
Thank you for posting this question! It saved me from a bad mistake in an answer, where I had written (unnecessarily) $|BC| = |B||C|$, instead of $|BC| leqslant |B||C|$.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 16 at 1:00
add a comment |
What is the 2-norm? The answer will change depending on the norm.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:23
2-norm is just matrix 2-norm or you can say it is an induced norm from the l2 normed vector space. It is the norm from operator sense, treating matrix as an operator.
– ArtificiallyIntelligence
Nov 15 at 23:24
It looks to me you have your definitions missmatched. Check again, you are around a solution, it looks like.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:26
Thank you for posting this question! It saved me from a bad mistake in an answer, where I had written (unnecessarily) $|BC| = |B||C|$, instead of $|BC| leqslant |B||C|$.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 16 at 1:00
What is the 2-norm? The answer will change depending on the norm.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:23
What is the 2-norm? The answer will change depending on the norm.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:23
2-norm is just matrix 2-norm or you can say it is an induced norm from the l2 normed vector space. It is the norm from operator sense, treating matrix as an operator.
– ArtificiallyIntelligence
Nov 15 at 23:24
2-norm is just matrix 2-norm or you can say it is an induced norm from the l2 normed vector space. It is the norm from operator sense, treating matrix as an operator.
– ArtificiallyIntelligence
Nov 15 at 23:24
It looks to me you have your definitions missmatched. Check again, you are around a solution, it looks like.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:26
It looks to me you have your definitions missmatched. Check again, you are around a solution, it looks like.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:26
Thank you for posting this question! It saved me from a bad mistake in an answer, where I had written (unnecessarily) $|BC| = |B||C|$, instead of $|BC| leqslant |B||C|$.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 16 at 1:00
Thank you for posting this question! It saved me from a bad mistake in an answer, where I had written (unnecessarily) $|BC| = |B||C|$, instead of $|BC| leqslant |B||C|$.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 16 at 1:00
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
So given $Vert x Vert =1$, $$Vert AB x Vert le Vert A Vert Vert Bx Vert,$$ the equality holds when $Bx$ hit on the direction of first right singular vector of $A$.
Then
$$Vert Bx Vert le Vert B Vert Vert x Vert$$ the equality holds when $x$ hit the first right singular vector of $B$. However, now the $Bx$ aligned with first left singular vector of $B$ and it must match the first right singular vector of $A$.
Note that $$Vert A B xVert le Vert A Vert Vert BVert Vert x Vert$$
When both equality conditions are holds, that is to say,
the largest left singular vector of $B$ is parallel to the largest right singular vector of $A$
we have
$$
Vert A BVert = sup Vert AB xVert/Vert x Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert
$$
OP is using 2-norm. I think that signifies $|A| = left( sumlimits_{p,q} A(p,q)^2 right)^{frac{1}{2}}.$
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
Oh, you are OP.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
So given $Vert x Vert =1$, $$Vert AB x Vert le Vert A Vert Vert Bx Vert,$$ the equality holds when $Bx$ hit on the direction of first right singular vector of $A$.
Then
$$Vert Bx Vert le Vert B Vert Vert x Vert$$ the equality holds when $x$ hit the first right singular vector of $B$. However, now the $Bx$ aligned with first left singular vector of $B$ and it must match the first right singular vector of $A$.
Note that $$Vert A B xVert le Vert A Vert Vert BVert Vert x Vert$$
When both equality conditions are holds, that is to say,
the largest left singular vector of $B$ is parallel to the largest right singular vector of $A$
we have
$$
Vert A BVert = sup Vert AB xVert/Vert x Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert
$$
OP is using 2-norm. I think that signifies $|A| = left( sumlimits_{p,q} A(p,q)^2 right)^{frac{1}{2}}.$
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
Oh, you are OP.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
So given $Vert x Vert =1$, $$Vert AB x Vert le Vert A Vert Vert Bx Vert,$$ the equality holds when $Bx$ hit on the direction of first right singular vector of $A$.
Then
$$Vert Bx Vert le Vert B Vert Vert x Vert$$ the equality holds when $x$ hit the first right singular vector of $B$. However, now the $Bx$ aligned with first left singular vector of $B$ and it must match the first right singular vector of $A$.
Note that $$Vert A B xVert le Vert A Vert Vert BVert Vert x Vert$$
When both equality conditions are holds, that is to say,
the largest left singular vector of $B$ is parallel to the largest right singular vector of $A$
we have
$$
Vert A BVert = sup Vert AB xVert/Vert x Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert
$$
OP is using 2-norm. I think that signifies $|A| = left( sumlimits_{p,q} A(p,q)^2 right)^{frac{1}{2}}.$
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
Oh, you are OP.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
So given $Vert x Vert =1$, $$Vert AB x Vert le Vert A Vert Vert Bx Vert,$$ the equality holds when $Bx$ hit on the direction of first right singular vector of $A$.
Then
$$Vert Bx Vert le Vert B Vert Vert x Vert$$ the equality holds when $x$ hit the first right singular vector of $B$. However, now the $Bx$ aligned with first left singular vector of $B$ and it must match the first right singular vector of $A$.
Note that $$Vert A B xVert le Vert A Vert Vert BVert Vert x Vert$$
When both equality conditions are holds, that is to say,
the largest left singular vector of $B$ is parallel to the largest right singular vector of $A$
we have
$$
Vert A BVert = sup Vert AB xVert/Vert x Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert
$$
So given $Vert x Vert =1$, $$Vert AB x Vert le Vert A Vert Vert Bx Vert,$$ the equality holds when $Bx$ hit on the direction of first right singular vector of $A$.
Then
$$Vert Bx Vert le Vert B Vert Vert x Vert$$ the equality holds when $x$ hit the first right singular vector of $B$. However, now the $Bx$ aligned with first left singular vector of $B$ and it must match the first right singular vector of $A$.
Note that $$Vert A B xVert le Vert A Vert Vert BVert Vert x Vert$$
When both equality conditions are holds, that is to say,
the largest left singular vector of $B$ is parallel to the largest right singular vector of $A$
we have
$$
Vert A BVert = sup Vert AB xVert/Vert x Vert = Vert A Vert Vert B Vert
$$
edited Nov 16 at 5:47
answered Nov 15 at 23:19
ArtificiallyIntelligence
250110
250110
OP is using 2-norm. I think that signifies $|A| = left( sumlimits_{p,q} A(p,q)^2 right)^{frac{1}{2}}.$
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
Oh, you are OP.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
add a comment |
OP is using 2-norm. I think that signifies $|A| = left( sumlimits_{p,q} A(p,q)^2 right)^{frac{1}{2}}.$
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
Oh, you are OP.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
OP is using 2-norm. I think that signifies $|A| = left( sumlimits_{p,q} A(p,q)^2 right)^{frac{1}{2}}.$
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
OP is using 2-norm. I think that signifies $|A| = left( sumlimits_{p,q} A(p,q)^2 right)^{frac{1}{2}}.$
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
Oh, you are OP.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
Oh, you are OP.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:22
add a comment |
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What is the 2-norm? The answer will change depending on the norm.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:23
2-norm is just matrix 2-norm or you can say it is an induced norm from the l2 normed vector space. It is the norm from operator sense, treating matrix as an operator.
– ArtificiallyIntelligence
Nov 15 at 23:24
It looks to me you have your definitions missmatched. Check again, you are around a solution, it looks like.
– Will M.
Nov 15 at 23:26
Thank you for posting this question! It saved me from a bad mistake in an answer, where I had written (unnecessarily) $|BC| = |B||C|$, instead of $|BC| leqslant |B||C|$.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 16 at 1:00