Smallest prime of the form 41033333333…?











up vote
7
down vote

favorite
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What is the smallest prime of the form $410333333333...$ ?
It should have more than $10,000$ digits.





[added from answer posted 2013 May 26 at 20:52 by Peter]



I thought it would be clear, but it seems not to be.
Of course, after $410$, only $3$'s should follow.
Otherwise, it would be very easy to find primes.
I checked the numbers up to about $10,000$ digits,
but of course, I would be glad if someone checks
this, too.



I do not understand the question, WHY this number
is interesting for me. Mersenne primes are not so
much more interesting, but recently a prize of
$100,000$ $was payed for a community finding a
$17$-million-digit mersenne prime. I would have
better ideas what to do with all this money ...










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 8




    What evidence do you have that there is a such a prime?
    – Thomas Andrews
    May 26 '13 at 20:01






  • 4




    Do you mean $41033333333cdot 10^k<p<41033333334cdot 10^k$ or $3p=1231cdot 10^k-1$?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    May 26 '13 at 20:14








  • 6




    Why are you interested? What have you tried?
    – draks ...
    May 26 '13 at 20:19






  • 3




    I assume the number you are interested in is of the form $$41 cdot 10^{n+1} + dfrac{10^n-1}3$$ If so, note that for odd $n$, $11$ divides the number. Hence, $n$ has to be even, for the number to be a prime.
    – user17762
    May 26 '13 at 20:57








  • 4




    Also @user17762, since $37mid41033$, $13mid4103333$ and $13cdot37mid333333$ it follows that $n$ has to be a multiple of $6$, for the number to be prime.
    – P..
    May 26 '13 at 21:12

















up vote
7
down vote

favorite
6












What is the smallest prime of the form $410333333333...$ ?
It should have more than $10,000$ digits.





[added from answer posted 2013 May 26 at 20:52 by Peter]



I thought it would be clear, but it seems not to be.
Of course, after $410$, only $3$'s should follow.
Otherwise, it would be very easy to find primes.
I checked the numbers up to about $10,000$ digits,
but of course, I would be glad if someone checks
this, too.



I do not understand the question, WHY this number
is interesting for me. Mersenne primes are not so
much more interesting, but recently a prize of
$100,000$ $was payed for a community finding a
$17$-million-digit mersenne prime. I would have
better ideas what to do with all this money ...










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 8




    What evidence do you have that there is a such a prime?
    – Thomas Andrews
    May 26 '13 at 20:01






  • 4




    Do you mean $41033333333cdot 10^k<p<41033333334cdot 10^k$ or $3p=1231cdot 10^k-1$?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    May 26 '13 at 20:14








  • 6




    Why are you interested? What have you tried?
    – draks ...
    May 26 '13 at 20:19






  • 3




    I assume the number you are interested in is of the form $$41 cdot 10^{n+1} + dfrac{10^n-1}3$$ If so, note that for odd $n$, $11$ divides the number. Hence, $n$ has to be even, for the number to be a prime.
    – user17762
    May 26 '13 at 20:57








  • 4




    Also @user17762, since $37mid41033$, $13mid4103333$ and $13cdot37mid333333$ it follows that $n$ has to be a multiple of $6$, for the number to be prime.
    – P..
    May 26 '13 at 21:12















up vote
7
down vote

favorite
6









up vote
7
down vote

favorite
6






6





What is the smallest prime of the form $410333333333...$ ?
It should have more than $10,000$ digits.





[added from answer posted 2013 May 26 at 20:52 by Peter]



I thought it would be clear, but it seems not to be.
Of course, after $410$, only $3$'s should follow.
Otherwise, it would be very easy to find primes.
I checked the numbers up to about $10,000$ digits,
but of course, I would be glad if someone checks
this, too.



I do not understand the question, WHY this number
is interesting for me. Mersenne primes are not so
much more interesting, but recently a prize of
$100,000$ $was payed for a community finding a
$17$-million-digit mersenne prime. I would have
better ideas what to do with all this money ...










share|cite|improve this question















What is the smallest prime of the form $410333333333...$ ?
It should have more than $10,000$ digits.





[added from answer posted 2013 May 26 at 20:52 by Peter]



I thought it would be clear, but it seems not to be.
Of course, after $410$, only $3$'s should follow.
Otherwise, it would be very easy to find primes.
I checked the numbers up to about $10,000$ digits,
but of course, I would be glad if someone checks
this, too.



I do not understand the question, WHY this number
is interesting for me. Mersenne primes are not so
much more interesting, but recently a prize of
$100,000$ $was payed for a community finding a
$17$-million-digit mersenne prime. I would have
better ideas what to do with all this money ...







number-theory prime-numbers






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Nov 21 at 12:32









amWhy

191k28223439




191k28223439










asked May 26 '13 at 19:52









Peter

411




411








  • 8




    What evidence do you have that there is a such a prime?
    – Thomas Andrews
    May 26 '13 at 20:01






  • 4




    Do you mean $41033333333cdot 10^k<p<41033333334cdot 10^k$ or $3p=1231cdot 10^k-1$?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    May 26 '13 at 20:14








  • 6




    Why are you interested? What have you tried?
    – draks ...
    May 26 '13 at 20:19






  • 3




    I assume the number you are interested in is of the form $$41 cdot 10^{n+1} + dfrac{10^n-1}3$$ If so, note that for odd $n$, $11$ divides the number. Hence, $n$ has to be even, for the number to be a prime.
    – user17762
    May 26 '13 at 20:57








  • 4




    Also @user17762, since $37mid41033$, $13mid4103333$ and $13cdot37mid333333$ it follows that $n$ has to be a multiple of $6$, for the number to be prime.
    – P..
    May 26 '13 at 21:12
















  • 8




    What evidence do you have that there is a such a prime?
    – Thomas Andrews
    May 26 '13 at 20:01






  • 4




    Do you mean $41033333333cdot 10^k<p<41033333334cdot 10^k$ or $3p=1231cdot 10^k-1$?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    May 26 '13 at 20:14








  • 6




    Why are you interested? What have you tried?
    – draks ...
    May 26 '13 at 20:19






  • 3




    I assume the number you are interested in is of the form $$41 cdot 10^{n+1} + dfrac{10^n-1}3$$ If so, note that for odd $n$, $11$ divides the number. Hence, $n$ has to be even, for the number to be a prime.
    – user17762
    May 26 '13 at 20:57








  • 4




    Also @user17762, since $37mid41033$, $13mid4103333$ and $13cdot37mid333333$ it follows that $n$ has to be a multiple of $6$, for the number to be prime.
    – P..
    May 26 '13 at 21:12










8




8




What evidence do you have that there is a such a prime?
– Thomas Andrews
May 26 '13 at 20:01




What evidence do you have that there is a such a prime?
– Thomas Andrews
May 26 '13 at 20:01




4




4




Do you mean $41033333333cdot 10^k<p<41033333334cdot 10^k$ or $3p=1231cdot 10^k-1$?
– Hagen von Eitzen
May 26 '13 at 20:14






Do you mean $41033333333cdot 10^k<p<41033333334cdot 10^k$ or $3p=1231cdot 10^k-1$?
– Hagen von Eitzen
May 26 '13 at 20:14






6




6




Why are you interested? What have you tried?
– draks ...
May 26 '13 at 20:19




Why are you interested? What have you tried?
– draks ...
May 26 '13 at 20:19




3




3




I assume the number you are interested in is of the form $$41 cdot 10^{n+1} + dfrac{10^n-1}3$$ If so, note that for odd $n$, $11$ divides the number. Hence, $n$ has to be even, for the number to be a prime.
– user17762
May 26 '13 at 20:57






I assume the number you are interested in is of the form $$41 cdot 10^{n+1} + dfrac{10^n-1}3$$ If so, note that for odd $n$, $11$ divides the number. Hence, $n$ has to be even, for the number to be a prime.
– user17762
May 26 '13 at 20:57






4




4




Also @user17762, since $37mid41033$, $13mid4103333$ and $13cdot37mid333333$ it follows that $n$ has to be a multiple of $6$, for the number to be prime.
– P..
May 26 '13 at 21:12






Also @user17762, since $37mid41033$, $13mid4103333$ and $13cdot37mid333333$ it follows that $n$ has to be a multiple of $6$, for the number to be prime.
– P..
May 26 '13 at 21:12












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
9
down vote













I guess $(1231times 10^{6times 6233}-1)/3$, that is with 37,398 threes. (PFGW calls it a probable prime to base 2,3,5,7.)



Let $a(n)=(1231times 10^n-1)/3$. Then if a prime $p$ divides $a(n)$, then
$$
10^n equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
10^{n+kcdotmathrm{ord}_p10} equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
p mid a(n+kcdot mathrm{ord}_p10)
$$
where $mathrm{ord}_p10$ is the smallest exponent $i$ for which $10^iequiv 1pmod{p}$.
So for example
$$
11 mid a(2k+1) \
41 mid a(5k) \
35 mid a(3k+2) \
47 mid a(46k+10)
$$
and so forth.



If $n_2$ satisfies one or more of these for a prime $p$ with $k>1$, then there must be a smaller $n_1$ with $k=0$ with $p mid gcd(a(n_2),a(n_1))$. Since GCD can be computed quickly, for $n>10368$ and divisible by 6 I identified candidates where $gcd(a(n),a(i))=1$ for several choices of $i<n$. This eliminated about 95% of cases, I made a list of the rest and tested about 1000 before finding one that reported as a probable prime.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    41033333333323 = 41033333333300 + 23 is prime.
    So is 4103333333333333333333000159.



    Set $x= 4103333333333333333333...$ ($k$ times a 3). Then $log x approx 6 + 2.3 cdot k$. By the Prime Number Theorem, you'll find a prime of the form $10^nx + r, , r < 10^n$ with high probability (let's say 0.999999) if $10^n > 100 + 30k$ or so. That is, $n ge 3 + log_{10} k$ should be enough.






    share|cite|improve this answer



















    • 6




      Yes, with the "weak" interopretation of the ellipsis, the existence of small examples is no surprise.
      – Hagen von Eitzen
      May 26 '13 at 20:23











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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    9
    down vote













    I guess $(1231times 10^{6times 6233}-1)/3$, that is with 37,398 threes. (PFGW calls it a probable prime to base 2,3,5,7.)



    Let $a(n)=(1231times 10^n-1)/3$. Then if a prime $p$ divides $a(n)$, then
    $$
    10^n equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
    10^{n+kcdotmathrm{ord}_p10} equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
    p mid a(n+kcdot mathrm{ord}_p10)
    $$
    where $mathrm{ord}_p10$ is the smallest exponent $i$ for which $10^iequiv 1pmod{p}$.
    So for example
    $$
    11 mid a(2k+1) \
    41 mid a(5k) \
    35 mid a(3k+2) \
    47 mid a(46k+10)
    $$
    and so forth.



    If $n_2$ satisfies one or more of these for a prime $p$ with $k>1$, then there must be a smaller $n_1$ with $k=0$ with $p mid gcd(a(n_2),a(n_1))$. Since GCD can be computed quickly, for $n>10368$ and divisible by 6 I identified candidates where $gcd(a(n),a(i))=1$ for several choices of $i<n$. This eliminated about 95% of cases, I made a list of the rest and tested about 1000 before finding one that reported as a probable prime.






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      9
      down vote













      I guess $(1231times 10^{6times 6233}-1)/3$, that is with 37,398 threes. (PFGW calls it a probable prime to base 2,3,5,7.)



      Let $a(n)=(1231times 10^n-1)/3$. Then if a prime $p$ divides $a(n)$, then
      $$
      10^n equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
      10^{n+kcdotmathrm{ord}_p10} equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
      p mid a(n+kcdot mathrm{ord}_p10)
      $$
      where $mathrm{ord}_p10$ is the smallest exponent $i$ for which $10^iequiv 1pmod{p}$.
      So for example
      $$
      11 mid a(2k+1) \
      41 mid a(5k) \
      35 mid a(3k+2) \
      47 mid a(46k+10)
      $$
      and so forth.



      If $n_2$ satisfies one or more of these for a prime $p$ with $k>1$, then there must be a smaller $n_1$ with $k=0$ with $p mid gcd(a(n_2),a(n_1))$. Since GCD can be computed quickly, for $n>10368$ and divisible by 6 I identified candidates where $gcd(a(n),a(i))=1$ for several choices of $i<n$. This eliminated about 95% of cases, I made a list of the rest and tested about 1000 before finding one that reported as a probable prime.






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        9
        down vote










        up vote
        9
        down vote









        I guess $(1231times 10^{6times 6233}-1)/3$, that is with 37,398 threes. (PFGW calls it a probable prime to base 2,3,5,7.)



        Let $a(n)=(1231times 10^n-1)/3$. Then if a prime $p$ divides $a(n)$, then
        $$
        10^n equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
        10^{n+kcdotmathrm{ord}_p10} equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
        p mid a(n+kcdot mathrm{ord}_p10)
        $$
        where $mathrm{ord}_p10$ is the smallest exponent $i$ for which $10^iequiv 1pmod{p}$.
        So for example
        $$
        11 mid a(2k+1) \
        41 mid a(5k) \
        35 mid a(3k+2) \
        47 mid a(46k+10)
        $$
        and so forth.



        If $n_2$ satisfies one or more of these for a prime $p$ with $k>1$, then there must be a smaller $n_1$ with $k=0$ with $p mid gcd(a(n_2),a(n_1))$. Since GCD can be computed quickly, for $n>10368$ and divisible by 6 I identified candidates where $gcd(a(n),a(i))=1$ for several choices of $i<n$. This eliminated about 95% of cases, I made a list of the rest and tested about 1000 before finding one that reported as a probable prime.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        I guess $(1231times 10^{6times 6233}-1)/3$, that is with 37,398 threes. (PFGW calls it a probable prime to base 2,3,5,7.)



        Let $a(n)=(1231times 10^n-1)/3$. Then if a prime $p$ divides $a(n)$, then
        $$
        10^n equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
        10^{n+kcdotmathrm{ord}_p10} equiv 1231^{-1} pmod{p} \
        p mid a(n+kcdot mathrm{ord}_p10)
        $$
        where $mathrm{ord}_p10$ is the smallest exponent $i$ for which $10^iequiv 1pmod{p}$.
        So for example
        $$
        11 mid a(2k+1) \
        41 mid a(5k) \
        35 mid a(3k+2) \
        47 mid a(46k+10)
        $$
        and so forth.



        If $n_2$ satisfies one or more of these for a prime $p$ with $k>1$, then there must be a smaller $n_1$ with $k=0$ with $p mid gcd(a(n_2),a(n_1))$. Since GCD can be computed quickly, for $n>10368$ and divisible by 6 I identified candidates where $gcd(a(n),a(i))=1$ for several choices of $i<n$. This eliminated about 95% of cases, I made a list of the rest and tested about 1000 before finding one that reported as a probable prime.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered May 30 '13 at 4:03









        Zander

        9,78511547




        9,78511547






















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            41033333333323 = 41033333333300 + 23 is prime.
            So is 4103333333333333333333000159.



            Set $x= 4103333333333333333333...$ ($k$ times a 3). Then $log x approx 6 + 2.3 cdot k$. By the Prime Number Theorem, you'll find a prime of the form $10^nx + r, , r < 10^n$ with high probability (let's say 0.999999) if $10^n > 100 + 30k$ or so. That is, $n ge 3 + log_{10} k$ should be enough.






            share|cite|improve this answer



















            • 6




              Yes, with the "weak" interopretation of the ellipsis, the existence of small examples is no surprise.
              – Hagen von Eitzen
              May 26 '13 at 20:23















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            41033333333323 = 41033333333300 + 23 is prime.
            So is 4103333333333333333333000159.



            Set $x= 4103333333333333333333...$ ($k$ times a 3). Then $log x approx 6 + 2.3 cdot k$. By the Prime Number Theorem, you'll find a prime of the form $10^nx + r, , r < 10^n$ with high probability (let's say 0.999999) if $10^n > 100 + 30k$ or so. That is, $n ge 3 + log_{10} k$ should be enough.






            share|cite|improve this answer



















            • 6




              Yes, with the "weak" interopretation of the ellipsis, the existence of small examples is no surprise.
              – Hagen von Eitzen
              May 26 '13 at 20:23













            up vote
            1
            down vote










            up vote
            1
            down vote









            41033333333323 = 41033333333300 + 23 is prime.
            So is 4103333333333333333333000159.



            Set $x= 4103333333333333333333...$ ($k$ times a 3). Then $log x approx 6 + 2.3 cdot k$. By the Prime Number Theorem, you'll find a prime of the form $10^nx + r, , r < 10^n$ with high probability (let's say 0.999999) if $10^n > 100 + 30k$ or so. That is, $n ge 3 + log_{10} k$ should be enough.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            41033333333323 = 41033333333300 + 23 is prime.
            So is 4103333333333333333333000159.



            Set $x= 4103333333333333333333...$ ($k$ times a 3). Then $log x approx 6 + 2.3 cdot k$. By the Prime Number Theorem, you'll find a prime of the form $10^nx + r, , r < 10^n$ with high probability (let's say 0.999999) if $10^n > 100 + 30k$ or so. That is, $n ge 3 + log_{10} k$ should be enough.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited May 26 '13 at 20:35

























            answered May 26 '13 at 20:20









            Hans Engler

            9,98411836




            9,98411836








            • 6




              Yes, with the "weak" interopretation of the ellipsis, the existence of small examples is no surprise.
              – Hagen von Eitzen
              May 26 '13 at 20:23














            • 6




              Yes, with the "weak" interopretation of the ellipsis, the existence of small examples is no surprise.
              – Hagen von Eitzen
              May 26 '13 at 20:23








            6




            6




            Yes, with the "weak" interopretation of the ellipsis, the existence of small examples is no surprise.
            – Hagen von Eitzen
            May 26 '13 at 20:23




            Yes, with the "weak" interopretation of the ellipsis, the existence of small examples is no surprise.
            – Hagen von Eitzen
            May 26 '13 at 20:23


















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