Few group theory questions












2














I am trying to solve the following;



First, given $G$ is a group and $H$ a subgroup of $G$, what can we say about the relation $a cong b$ if $b^{-1}a in H$



I can show that it is reflexive as the identity is always in the subgroup.



if $a cong b$ then $b^{-1}a in H$ and so $(b^{-1}a)^{-1}=a^{-1}b in H$ so $b cong c$.



Now I must determine if $G$ being abelian is required for this to be transitive.



My thought would be that if $ a cong b $ then $b^{-1}a in H $ and if $b cong c$ then $c^{-1}b in H$ and by properties of subgroups so to is $c^{-1}bb^{-1}a=c^{-1}a$ which would seem to imply $a cong c$, but I don't know if I am somehow doing something that couldn't be done if $G$ was not abelian. What do you guys think?



And second part asks to discuss the possible homomorphism (group) from $mathbb{Z}/nmathbb{Z}$ to $mathbb{Z}$ and it says for $n ge 1$, is every homomorphism the zero one. Either yes, no, or it depends on $n$.



My thoughts are that only the zero homomorphism is possible, since if $phi$ was a homomorphism then $phi(ab)=phi(a)phi(b)$ and this would quickly result in having $ab=n=0$ but $phi(a)$ and $phi(b)$ not being $0$.
If $n$ was prime, then I am not so sure, but wouldn't this still end up mapping many things to the identity etc?



Thank you all










share|cite|improve this question
























  • I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
    – fleablood
    Dec 8 '15 at 21:32
















2














I am trying to solve the following;



First, given $G$ is a group and $H$ a subgroup of $G$, what can we say about the relation $a cong b$ if $b^{-1}a in H$



I can show that it is reflexive as the identity is always in the subgroup.



if $a cong b$ then $b^{-1}a in H$ and so $(b^{-1}a)^{-1}=a^{-1}b in H$ so $b cong c$.



Now I must determine if $G$ being abelian is required for this to be transitive.



My thought would be that if $ a cong b $ then $b^{-1}a in H $ and if $b cong c$ then $c^{-1}b in H$ and by properties of subgroups so to is $c^{-1}bb^{-1}a=c^{-1}a$ which would seem to imply $a cong c$, but I don't know if I am somehow doing something that couldn't be done if $G$ was not abelian. What do you guys think?



And second part asks to discuss the possible homomorphism (group) from $mathbb{Z}/nmathbb{Z}$ to $mathbb{Z}$ and it says for $n ge 1$, is every homomorphism the zero one. Either yes, no, or it depends on $n$.



My thoughts are that only the zero homomorphism is possible, since if $phi$ was a homomorphism then $phi(ab)=phi(a)phi(b)$ and this would quickly result in having $ab=n=0$ but $phi(a)$ and $phi(b)$ not being $0$.
If $n$ was prime, then I am not so sure, but wouldn't this still end up mapping many things to the identity etc?



Thank you all










share|cite|improve this question
























  • I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
    – fleablood
    Dec 8 '15 at 21:32














2












2








2







I am trying to solve the following;



First, given $G$ is a group and $H$ a subgroup of $G$, what can we say about the relation $a cong b$ if $b^{-1}a in H$



I can show that it is reflexive as the identity is always in the subgroup.



if $a cong b$ then $b^{-1}a in H$ and so $(b^{-1}a)^{-1}=a^{-1}b in H$ so $b cong c$.



Now I must determine if $G$ being abelian is required for this to be transitive.



My thought would be that if $ a cong b $ then $b^{-1}a in H $ and if $b cong c$ then $c^{-1}b in H$ and by properties of subgroups so to is $c^{-1}bb^{-1}a=c^{-1}a$ which would seem to imply $a cong c$, but I don't know if I am somehow doing something that couldn't be done if $G$ was not abelian. What do you guys think?



And second part asks to discuss the possible homomorphism (group) from $mathbb{Z}/nmathbb{Z}$ to $mathbb{Z}$ and it says for $n ge 1$, is every homomorphism the zero one. Either yes, no, or it depends on $n$.



My thoughts are that only the zero homomorphism is possible, since if $phi$ was a homomorphism then $phi(ab)=phi(a)phi(b)$ and this would quickly result in having $ab=n=0$ but $phi(a)$ and $phi(b)$ not being $0$.
If $n$ was prime, then I am not so sure, but wouldn't this still end up mapping many things to the identity etc?



Thank you all










share|cite|improve this question















I am trying to solve the following;



First, given $G$ is a group and $H$ a subgroup of $G$, what can we say about the relation $a cong b$ if $b^{-1}a in H$



I can show that it is reflexive as the identity is always in the subgroup.



if $a cong b$ then $b^{-1}a in H$ and so $(b^{-1}a)^{-1}=a^{-1}b in H$ so $b cong c$.



Now I must determine if $G$ being abelian is required for this to be transitive.



My thought would be that if $ a cong b $ then $b^{-1}a in H $ and if $b cong c$ then $c^{-1}b in H$ and by properties of subgroups so to is $c^{-1}bb^{-1}a=c^{-1}a$ which would seem to imply $a cong c$, but I don't know if I am somehow doing something that couldn't be done if $G$ was not abelian. What do you guys think?



And second part asks to discuss the possible homomorphism (group) from $mathbb{Z}/nmathbb{Z}$ to $mathbb{Z}$ and it says for $n ge 1$, is every homomorphism the zero one. Either yes, no, or it depends on $n$.



My thoughts are that only the zero homomorphism is possible, since if $phi$ was a homomorphism then $phi(ab)=phi(a)phi(b)$ and this would quickly result in having $ab=n=0$ but $phi(a)$ and $phi(b)$ not being $0$.
If $n$ was prime, then I am not so sure, but wouldn't this still end up mapping many things to the identity etc?



Thank you all







group-theory relations group-homomorphism






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edited Nov 28 '18 at 22:43









the_fox

2,50711431




2,50711431










asked Dec 8 '15 at 21:17









PersonaAPersonaA

329617




329617












  • I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
    – fleablood
    Dec 8 '15 at 21:32


















  • I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
    – fleablood
    Dec 8 '15 at 21:32
















I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
– fleablood
Dec 8 '15 at 21:32




I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
– fleablood
Dec 8 '15 at 21:32










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1














Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.






share|cite|improve this answer































    0















    1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

    2. The group operation is rather addition.
      Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
      – PersonaA
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










    • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
      – fleablood
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










    • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
      – PersonaA
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












    • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
      – fleablood
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










    • Only a=0 then ?
      – PersonaA
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:48











    Your Answer





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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
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    1














    Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



    So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



    Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



    And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



    So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



    So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      1














      Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



      So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



      Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



      And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



      So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



      So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.






      share|cite|improve this answer


























        1












        1








        1






        Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



        So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



        Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



        And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



        So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



        So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.






        share|cite|improve this answer














        Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



        So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



        Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



        And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



        So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



        So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Nov 28 '18 at 22:21









        Shaun

        8,820113681




        8,820113681










        answered Dec 8 '15 at 21:53









        fleabloodfleablood

        68.6k22685




        68.6k22685























            0















            1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

            2. The group operation is rather addition.
              Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










            • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










            • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












            • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










            • Only a=0 then ?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48
















            0















            1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

            2. The group operation is rather addition.
              Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










            • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










            • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












            • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










            • Only a=0 then ?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48














            0












            0








            0







            1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

            2. The group operation is rather addition.
              Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?






            share|cite|improve this answer













            1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

            2. The group operation is rather addition.
              Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Dec 8 '15 at 21:23









            BerciBerci

            59.8k23672




            59.8k23672












            • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










            • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










            • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












            • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










            • Only a=0 then ?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48


















            • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










            • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










            • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












            • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










            • Only a=0 then ?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48
















            So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:35




            So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:35












            The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
            – fleablood
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:43




            The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
            – fleablood
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:43












            Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:47






            Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:47














            But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
            – fleablood
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:48




            But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
            – fleablood
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:48












            Only a=0 then ?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:48




            Only a=0 then ?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:48


















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