Few group theory questions












2














I am trying to solve the following;



First, given $G$ is a group and $H$ a subgroup of $G$, what can we say about the relation $a cong b$ if $b^{-1}a in H$



I can show that it is reflexive as the identity is always in the subgroup.



if $a cong b$ then $b^{-1}a in H$ and so $(b^{-1}a)^{-1}=a^{-1}b in H$ so $b cong c$.



Now I must determine if $G$ being abelian is required for this to be transitive.



My thought would be that if $ a cong b $ then $b^{-1}a in H $ and if $b cong c$ then $c^{-1}b in H$ and by properties of subgroups so to is $c^{-1}bb^{-1}a=c^{-1}a$ which would seem to imply $a cong c$, but I don't know if I am somehow doing something that couldn't be done if $G$ was not abelian. What do you guys think?



And second part asks to discuss the possible homomorphism (group) from $mathbb{Z}/nmathbb{Z}$ to $mathbb{Z}$ and it says for $n ge 1$, is every homomorphism the zero one. Either yes, no, or it depends on $n$.



My thoughts are that only the zero homomorphism is possible, since if $phi$ was a homomorphism then $phi(ab)=phi(a)phi(b)$ and this would quickly result in having $ab=n=0$ but $phi(a)$ and $phi(b)$ not being $0$.
If $n$ was prime, then I am not so sure, but wouldn't this still end up mapping many things to the identity etc?



Thank you all










share|cite|improve this question
























  • I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
    – fleablood
    Dec 8 '15 at 21:32
















2














I am trying to solve the following;



First, given $G$ is a group and $H$ a subgroup of $G$, what can we say about the relation $a cong b$ if $b^{-1}a in H$



I can show that it is reflexive as the identity is always in the subgroup.



if $a cong b$ then $b^{-1}a in H$ and so $(b^{-1}a)^{-1}=a^{-1}b in H$ so $b cong c$.



Now I must determine if $G$ being abelian is required for this to be transitive.



My thought would be that if $ a cong b $ then $b^{-1}a in H $ and if $b cong c$ then $c^{-1}b in H$ and by properties of subgroups so to is $c^{-1}bb^{-1}a=c^{-1}a$ which would seem to imply $a cong c$, but I don't know if I am somehow doing something that couldn't be done if $G$ was not abelian. What do you guys think?



And second part asks to discuss the possible homomorphism (group) from $mathbb{Z}/nmathbb{Z}$ to $mathbb{Z}$ and it says for $n ge 1$, is every homomorphism the zero one. Either yes, no, or it depends on $n$.



My thoughts are that only the zero homomorphism is possible, since if $phi$ was a homomorphism then $phi(ab)=phi(a)phi(b)$ and this would quickly result in having $ab=n=0$ but $phi(a)$ and $phi(b)$ not being $0$.
If $n$ was prime, then I am not so sure, but wouldn't this still end up mapping many things to the identity etc?



Thank you all










share|cite|improve this question
























  • I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
    – fleablood
    Dec 8 '15 at 21:32














2












2








2







I am trying to solve the following;



First, given $G$ is a group and $H$ a subgroup of $G$, what can we say about the relation $a cong b$ if $b^{-1}a in H$



I can show that it is reflexive as the identity is always in the subgroup.



if $a cong b$ then $b^{-1}a in H$ and so $(b^{-1}a)^{-1}=a^{-1}b in H$ so $b cong c$.



Now I must determine if $G$ being abelian is required for this to be transitive.



My thought would be that if $ a cong b $ then $b^{-1}a in H $ and if $b cong c$ then $c^{-1}b in H$ and by properties of subgroups so to is $c^{-1}bb^{-1}a=c^{-1}a$ which would seem to imply $a cong c$, but I don't know if I am somehow doing something that couldn't be done if $G$ was not abelian. What do you guys think?



And second part asks to discuss the possible homomorphism (group) from $mathbb{Z}/nmathbb{Z}$ to $mathbb{Z}$ and it says for $n ge 1$, is every homomorphism the zero one. Either yes, no, or it depends on $n$.



My thoughts are that only the zero homomorphism is possible, since if $phi$ was a homomorphism then $phi(ab)=phi(a)phi(b)$ and this would quickly result in having $ab=n=0$ but $phi(a)$ and $phi(b)$ not being $0$.
If $n$ was prime, then I am not so sure, but wouldn't this still end up mapping many things to the identity etc?



Thank you all










share|cite|improve this question















I am trying to solve the following;



First, given $G$ is a group and $H$ a subgroup of $G$, what can we say about the relation $a cong b$ if $b^{-1}a in H$



I can show that it is reflexive as the identity is always in the subgroup.



if $a cong b$ then $b^{-1}a in H$ and so $(b^{-1}a)^{-1}=a^{-1}b in H$ so $b cong c$.



Now I must determine if $G$ being abelian is required for this to be transitive.



My thought would be that if $ a cong b $ then $b^{-1}a in H $ and if $b cong c$ then $c^{-1}b in H$ and by properties of subgroups so to is $c^{-1}bb^{-1}a=c^{-1}a$ which would seem to imply $a cong c$, but I don't know if I am somehow doing something that couldn't be done if $G$ was not abelian. What do you guys think?



And second part asks to discuss the possible homomorphism (group) from $mathbb{Z}/nmathbb{Z}$ to $mathbb{Z}$ and it says for $n ge 1$, is every homomorphism the zero one. Either yes, no, or it depends on $n$.



My thoughts are that only the zero homomorphism is possible, since if $phi$ was a homomorphism then $phi(ab)=phi(a)phi(b)$ and this would quickly result in having $ab=n=0$ but $phi(a)$ and $phi(b)$ not being $0$.
If $n$ was prime, then I am not so sure, but wouldn't this still end up mapping many things to the identity etc?



Thank you all







group-theory relations group-homomorphism






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 28 '18 at 22:43









the_fox

2,50711431




2,50711431










asked Dec 8 '15 at 21:17









PersonaAPersonaA

329617




329617












  • I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
    – fleablood
    Dec 8 '15 at 21:32


















  • I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
    – fleablood
    Dec 8 '15 at 21:32
















I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
– fleablood
Dec 8 '15 at 21:32




I see nothing wrong with your transitivity proof and it doesn't require commutativity. In part 2 you seem to be confabulating addition with multiplication. This is group, not field theory. ab = n = e means a and b are inverses. Not that one or the other is 0.
– fleablood
Dec 8 '15 at 21:32










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1














Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.






share|cite|improve this answer































    0















    1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

    2. The group operation is rather addition.
      Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
      – PersonaA
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










    • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
      – fleablood
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










    • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
      – PersonaA
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












    • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
      – fleablood
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










    • Only a=0 then ?
      – PersonaA
      Dec 8 '15 at 21:48











    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    });
    });
    }, "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function() {
    var channelOptions = {
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "69"
    };
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
    createEditor();
    });
    }
    else {
    createEditor();
    }
    });

    function createEditor() {
    StackExchange.prepareEditor({
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: true,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: 10,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader: {
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    },
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    });


    }
    });














    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function () {
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1566521%2ffew-group-theory-questions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
    }
    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    1














    Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



    So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



    Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



    And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



    So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



    So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      1














      Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



      So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



      Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



      And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



      So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



      So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.






      share|cite|improve this answer


























        1












        1








        1






        Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



        So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



        Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



        And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



        So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



        So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.






        share|cite|improve this answer














        Let $phi:Bbb Z/nto Bbb Z$ be a homomorphism.



        So $phi(a + b) = phi(a) + phi(b)$ so $phi(a) = phi(0 + a) = phi(0) + phi(a)$ so $phi(0) = 0$.



        Now $$begin{align}phi(am) &= phileft(underbrace{a + a + dots + a}_{mtext{ times.}}right) \ &= underbrace{phi(a) + phi(a) + dots + phi(a)}_{mtext{ times.}} \ &= phi(a)times m.end{align}$$



        And $an = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



        So $phi(an) = phi(a)times n = 0$ for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$. But in $phi(a) in Bbb Z$. $phi(a)times n = 0 implies phi(a) = 0$. This is true for all $a$ in $Bbb Z/n$.



        So $phi$ is the zero homomorphism. It's the only possible homomorphism.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Nov 28 '18 at 22:21









        Shaun

        8,820113681




        8,820113681










        answered Dec 8 '15 at 21:53









        fleabloodfleablood

        68.6k22685




        68.6k22685























            0















            1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

            2. The group operation is rather addition.
              Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










            • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










            • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












            • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










            • Only a=0 then ?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48
















            0















            1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

            2. The group operation is rather addition.
              Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










            • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










            • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












            • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










            • Only a=0 then ?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48














            0












            0








            0







            1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

            2. The group operation is rather addition.
              Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?






            share|cite|improve this answer













            1. Correct, commutativity is not needed and not used in your proof.

            2. The group operation is rather addition.
              Hint: Where can the equivalence class $[1]_{nBbb Z}$ be mapped by a homomorphism to $Bbb Z$?







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Dec 8 '15 at 21:23









            BerciBerci

            59.8k23672




            59.8k23672












            • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










            • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










            • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












            • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










            • Only a=0 then ?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48


















            • So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:35










            • The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:43










            • Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:47












            • But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
              – fleablood
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48










            • Only a=0 then ?
              – PersonaA
              Dec 8 '15 at 21:48
















            So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:35




            So if it is addition, then the identity element is zero correct? so it would have to be mapped to zero in Z, no?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:35












            The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
            – fleablood
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:43




            The identity gets mapped to the identity under all homomorphisms to any group. Were can 1, the generator of Z/n, get mapped to, is what is being asked. Hint: 1n = 0 in Z/n. So which a $in$ Z have the property an = 0?
            – fleablood
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:43












            Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:47






            Wouldn't it be all of them relatively ptime?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:47














            But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
            – fleablood
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:48




            But what elements a in Z (not Z/n) have the property an = 0? In Z. Not Z/n
            – fleablood
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:48












            Only a=0 then ?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:48




            Only a=0 then ?
            – PersonaA
            Dec 8 '15 at 21:48


















            draft saved

            draft discarded




















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





            Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


            Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1566521%2ffew-group-theory-questions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Ellipse (mathématiques)

            Quarter-circle Tiles

            Mont Emei