My proof that $S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability
I'm given a sequence $(X_n)$ of i.i.d. random variables with mean $0$ and finite variance $sigma^2$. Let $S_n=X_1 + ... + X_n$. I have to show that $S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability. Here's what I did.
Since $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in distribution to a normal random variable $Z$ with mean zero, if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$. But
$$P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n} - Z| > epsilon) geq P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon, |Z|>2epsilon)$$
Now I get to the main point I'm not sure of. Can I say that the random variables $S_nsqrt n$ (for any $n$) and $Z$ are independant? It seems like they might be, since in some sense we can't tell what the limit of a sequence will be from any initial segment of it.
If so, then I can continue (this all seems correct to me)
$$begin{align}
&P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon, |Z|>2epsilon) \
=&P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon)P(|Z|>2epsilon) \
geq&(1 - frac {sigma^2} {nepsilon^2})P(|Z|>2epsilon) to P(|Z|>2epsilon) > 0
end{align}$$
probability-theory proof-verification
add a comment |
I'm given a sequence $(X_n)$ of i.i.d. random variables with mean $0$ and finite variance $sigma^2$. Let $S_n=X_1 + ... + X_n$. I have to show that $S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability. Here's what I did.
Since $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in distribution to a normal random variable $Z$ with mean zero, if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$. But
$$P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n} - Z| > epsilon) geq P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon, |Z|>2epsilon)$$
Now I get to the main point I'm not sure of. Can I say that the random variables $S_nsqrt n$ (for any $n$) and $Z$ are independant? It seems like they might be, since in some sense we can't tell what the limit of a sequence will be from any initial segment of it.
If so, then I can continue (this all seems correct to me)
$$begin{align}
&P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon, |Z|>2epsilon) \
=&P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon)P(|Z|>2epsilon) \
geq&(1 - frac {sigma^2} {nepsilon^2})P(|Z|>2epsilon) to P(|Z|>2epsilon) > 0
end{align}$$
probability-theory proof-verification
I would suppose that $S_n$ converges in probability for some $X_j$ (e.g., when they are normal distributed). It is only not true that it converges for all $X_j$. So it feels like there is something wrong with your proof.
– Fabian
Jan 2 '16 at 22:03
Possible duplicate of A sequence of random variables that does not converge in probability.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:31
@Winther I don't think that really answers the question - my question is specifically about whether the approach I used is valid or can be modified to be valid.
– Jack M
Jan 2 '16 at 22:34
OK, I removed the vote! I'll keep the link above as it might be useful for others.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:35
2
If (in a different question) $Y_n$ converges in probability to a non-constant $V$, and $W$ has the same distribution as $V$ but is not almost surely identical, then $Y_n$ might be said to converge in distribution to $V$ and to $W$ but cannot be said to converge in probability to $W$. So your assertion that "if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$" looks difficult to justify
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:31
add a comment |
I'm given a sequence $(X_n)$ of i.i.d. random variables with mean $0$ and finite variance $sigma^2$. Let $S_n=X_1 + ... + X_n$. I have to show that $S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability. Here's what I did.
Since $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in distribution to a normal random variable $Z$ with mean zero, if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$. But
$$P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n} - Z| > epsilon) geq P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon, |Z|>2epsilon)$$
Now I get to the main point I'm not sure of. Can I say that the random variables $S_nsqrt n$ (for any $n$) and $Z$ are independant? It seems like they might be, since in some sense we can't tell what the limit of a sequence will be from any initial segment of it.
If so, then I can continue (this all seems correct to me)
$$begin{align}
&P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon, |Z|>2epsilon) \
=&P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon)P(|Z|>2epsilon) \
geq&(1 - frac {sigma^2} {nepsilon^2})P(|Z|>2epsilon) to P(|Z|>2epsilon) > 0
end{align}$$
probability-theory proof-verification
I'm given a sequence $(X_n)$ of i.i.d. random variables with mean $0$ and finite variance $sigma^2$. Let $S_n=X_1 + ... + X_n$. I have to show that $S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability. Here's what I did.
Since $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in distribution to a normal random variable $Z$ with mean zero, if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$. But
$$P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n} - Z| > epsilon) geq P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon, |Z|>2epsilon)$$
Now I get to the main point I'm not sure of. Can I say that the random variables $S_nsqrt n$ (for any $n$) and $Z$ are independant? It seems like they might be, since in some sense we can't tell what the limit of a sequence will be from any initial segment of it.
If so, then I can continue (this all seems correct to me)
$$begin{align}
&P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon, |Z|>2epsilon) \
=&P(|frac {S_n} {sqrt n}|<epsilon)P(|Z|>2epsilon) \
geq&(1 - frac {sigma^2} {nepsilon^2})P(|Z|>2epsilon) to P(|Z|>2epsilon) > 0
end{align}$$
probability-theory proof-verification
probability-theory proof-verification
asked Jan 2 '16 at 21:37
Jack MJack M
18.6k33880
18.6k33880
I would suppose that $S_n$ converges in probability for some $X_j$ (e.g., when they are normal distributed). It is only not true that it converges for all $X_j$. So it feels like there is something wrong with your proof.
– Fabian
Jan 2 '16 at 22:03
Possible duplicate of A sequence of random variables that does not converge in probability.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:31
@Winther I don't think that really answers the question - my question is specifically about whether the approach I used is valid or can be modified to be valid.
– Jack M
Jan 2 '16 at 22:34
OK, I removed the vote! I'll keep the link above as it might be useful for others.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:35
2
If (in a different question) $Y_n$ converges in probability to a non-constant $V$, and $W$ has the same distribution as $V$ but is not almost surely identical, then $Y_n$ might be said to converge in distribution to $V$ and to $W$ but cannot be said to converge in probability to $W$. So your assertion that "if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$" looks difficult to justify
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:31
add a comment |
I would suppose that $S_n$ converges in probability for some $X_j$ (e.g., when they are normal distributed). It is only not true that it converges for all $X_j$. So it feels like there is something wrong with your proof.
– Fabian
Jan 2 '16 at 22:03
Possible duplicate of A sequence of random variables that does not converge in probability.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:31
@Winther I don't think that really answers the question - my question is specifically about whether the approach I used is valid or can be modified to be valid.
– Jack M
Jan 2 '16 at 22:34
OK, I removed the vote! I'll keep the link above as it might be useful for others.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:35
2
If (in a different question) $Y_n$ converges in probability to a non-constant $V$, and $W$ has the same distribution as $V$ but is not almost surely identical, then $Y_n$ might be said to converge in distribution to $V$ and to $W$ but cannot be said to converge in probability to $W$. So your assertion that "if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$" looks difficult to justify
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:31
I would suppose that $S_n$ converges in probability for some $X_j$ (e.g., when they are normal distributed). It is only not true that it converges for all $X_j$. So it feels like there is something wrong with your proof.
– Fabian
Jan 2 '16 at 22:03
I would suppose that $S_n$ converges in probability for some $X_j$ (e.g., when they are normal distributed). It is only not true that it converges for all $X_j$. So it feels like there is something wrong with your proof.
– Fabian
Jan 2 '16 at 22:03
Possible duplicate of A sequence of random variables that does not converge in probability.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:31
Possible duplicate of A sequence of random variables that does not converge in probability.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:31
@Winther I don't think that really answers the question - my question is specifically about whether the approach I used is valid or can be modified to be valid.
– Jack M
Jan 2 '16 at 22:34
@Winther I don't think that really answers the question - my question is specifically about whether the approach I used is valid or can be modified to be valid.
– Jack M
Jan 2 '16 at 22:34
OK, I removed the vote! I'll keep the link above as it might be useful for others.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:35
OK, I removed the vote! I'll keep the link above as it might be useful for others.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:35
2
2
If (in a different question) $Y_n$ converges in probability to a non-constant $V$, and $W$ has the same distribution as $V$ but is not almost surely identical, then $Y_n$ might be said to converge in distribution to $V$ and to $W$ but cannot be said to converge in probability to $W$. So your assertion that "if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$" looks difficult to justify
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:31
If (in a different question) $Y_n$ converges in probability to a non-constant $V$, and $W$ has the same distribution as $V$ but is not almost surely identical, then $Y_n$ might be said to converge in distribution to $V$ and to $W$ but cannot be said to converge in probability to $W$. So your assertion that "if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$" looks difficult to justify
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:31
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Let see if this works.
Set $sigma^2=1$ (if sigma is 0 the statment is true) and assume $V_n=S_n/sqrt{n}$ converges in probability to a r.v. Z.
By the CLT, Z has standard normal distribution.
Define $W_n=frac{S_{2n}}{sqrt{2n}}$. These variables converge to Z in probability too.
Finally, take $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$.
T converges in distribution to a standard normal, but in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$, because $T_n=sqrt{2}W_n-V_n$, that has not standard normal distribution.
$S_{2n}$ and $S_n$ are not independent so I do not see why you can say that $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$ converges in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:42
@Henry: if $X_n$ converges to X in probability and $Y_n$ converges to Y in probability too, the sum converges in probability to X+Y regerdless of the relation between the variables
– Kolmo
Dec 5 '17 at 21:23
add a comment |
I have a partial answer. I think what you need is the Cauchy criterion for convergence in probability, which says:
The sequence $left(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}right)_{ngeq 1}$ converges in probability if and only if
begin{align}
Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow} 0quad text{for every }epsilon>0.
end{align}
However, notice that
begin{align}
&Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)=Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}<-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)-2\
&stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow}2left(Q(2epsilon)+Q(-epsilon)-1right),
end{align}
where $Q(x)=intlimits_{x}^{infty} mathcal{N}(0,1),dx$.
I do not know how to find an $epsilon>0$ such that the term inside the brackets is strictly positive. I am not quite sure if we can find one at all. As I said, this is just a partial solution that I have worked out.
Please feel free to suggest any more additions, or strengthening of arguments.
add a comment |
One can easily construct an entity to which we can say that "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability".
Take for example $W_n = -X_1+X_2+X_3+...+X_n$
Then
$$lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {S_n}{sqrt n} - frac {W_n}{sqrt n}right|> epsilonright) = lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {2X_1}{sqrt n} right|> epsilonright) = 0$$
and the criterion for convergence in probability is satisfied.
So I suspect that "$S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability" must have a more specific and narrow sense in the OP's case.
On another front, the established phrase "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in distribution to a random variable Z" sometimes makes us forget that the phenomenon described by "convergence in distribution" is that the sequence of distribution functions $F_n$ of $S_n/sqrt n$ converges to a certain distribution function $F$. There is really no $Z$ "at the end of the journey" waiting to "become one" with $S_n/sqrt n$ . $Z$ is a random variable, a separate entity from the distribution that characterizes it (which characterizes also an infinite number of other such $Z$'s). If there is no random variable, the question "is $S_n/sqrt n$ independent of $Z$?" cannot even be posed.
In response to your last paragraph: Yes, I think for this reason this proof (were it valid) would necessarily have to be posed as a proof by contradiction (unlike many proofs by contradiction which can be rephrased as direct proofs of contrapositives). You have to assume the sequence converges in probability to $Z$ in order to even be able to say what $Z$ is.
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:47
1
I don't understand your construction though. To what are you claiming your $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability?
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:50
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Let see if this works.
Set $sigma^2=1$ (if sigma is 0 the statment is true) and assume $V_n=S_n/sqrt{n}$ converges in probability to a r.v. Z.
By the CLT, Z has standard normal distribution.
Define $W_n=frac{S_{2n}}{sqrt{2n}}$. These variables converge to Z in probability too.
Finally, take $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$.
T converges in distribution to a standard normal, but in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$, because $T_n=sqrt{2}W_n-V_n$, that has not standard normal distribution.
$S_{2n}$ and $S_n$ are not independent so I do not see why you can say that $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$ converges in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:42
@Henry: if $X_n$ converges to X in probability and $Y_n$ converges to Y in probability too, the sum converges in probability to X+Y regerdless of the relation between the variables
– Kolmo
Dec 5 '17 at 21:23
add a comment |
Let see if this works.
Set $sigma^2=1$ (if sigma is 0 the statment is true) and assume $V_n=S_n/sqrt{n}$ converges in probability to a r.v. Z.
By the CLT, Z has standard normal distribution.
Define $W_n=frac{S_{2n}}{sqrt{2n}}$. These variables converge to Z in probability too.
Finally, take $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$.
T converges in distribution to a standard normal, but in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$, because $T_n=sqrt{2}W_n-V_n$, that has not standard normal distribution.
$S_{2n}$ and $S_n$ are not independent so I do not see why you can say that $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$ converges in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:42
@Henry: if $X_n$ converges to X in probability and $Y_n$ converges to Y in probability too, the sum converges in probability to X+Y regerdless of the relation between the variables
– Kolmo
Dec 5 '17 at 21:23
add a comment |
Let see if this works.
Set $sigma^2=1$ (if sigma is 0 the statment is true) and assume $V_n=S_n/sqrt{n}$ converges in probability to a r.v. Z.
By the CLT, Z has standard normal distribution.
Define $W_n=frac{S_{2n}}{sqrt{2n}}$. These variables converge to Z in probability too.
Finally, take $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$.
T converges in distribution to a standard normal, but in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$, because $T_n=sqrt{2}W_n-V_n$, that has not standard normal distribution.
Let see if this works.
Set $sigma^2=1$ (if sigma is 0 the statment is true) and assume $V_n=S_n/sqrt{n}$ converges in probability to a r.v. Z.
By the CLT, Z has standard normal distribution.
Define $W_n=frac{S_{2n}}{sqrt{2n}}$. These variables converge to Z in probability too.
Finally, take $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$.
T converges in distribution to a standard normal, but in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$, because $T_n=sqrt{2}W_n-V_n$, that has not standard normal distribution.
answered Jan 5 '16 at 18:56
KolmoKolmo
909614
909614
$S_{2n}$ and $S_n$ are not independent so I do not see why you can say that $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$ converges in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:42
@Henry: if $X_n$ converges to X in probability and $Y_n$ converges to Y in probability too, the sum converges in probability to X+Y regerdless of the relation between the variables
– Kolmo
Dec 5 '17 at 21:23
add a comment |
$S_{2n}$ and $S_n$ are not independent so I do not see why you can say that $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$ converges in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:42
@Henry: if $X_n$ converges to X in probability and $Y_n$ converges to Y in probability too, the sum converges in probability to X+Y regerdless of the relation between the variables
– Kolmo
Dec 5 '17 at 21:23
$S_{2n}$ and $S_n$ are not independent so I do not see why you can say that $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$ converges in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:42
$S_{2n}$ and $S_n$ are not independent so I do not see why you can say that $T_n=frac{S_{2n}-S_n}{sqrt{n}}$ converges in probability to $(sqrt{2}-1) Z$
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:42
@Henry: if $X_n$ converges to X in probability and $Y_n$ converges to Y in probability too, the sum converges in probability to X+Y regerdless of the relation between the variables
– Kolmo
Dec 5 '17 at 21:23
@Henry: if $X_n$ converges to X in probability and $Y_n$ converges to Y in probability too, the sum converges in probability to X+Y regerdless of the relation between the variables
– Kolmo
Dec 5 '17 at 21:23
add a comment |
I have a partial answer. I think what you need is the Cauchy criterion for convergence in probability, which says:
The sequence $left(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}right)_{ngeq 1}$ converges in probability if and only if
begin{align}
Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow} 0quad text{for every }epsilon>0.
end{align}
However, notice that
begin{align}
&Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)=Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}<-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)-2\
&stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow}2left(Q(2epsilon)+Q(-epsilon)-1right),
end{align}
where $Q(x)=intlimits_{x}^{infty} mathcal{N}(0,1),dx$.
I do not know how to find an $epsilon>0$ such that the term inside the brackets is strictly positive. I am not quite sure if we can find one at all. As I said, this is just a partial solution that I have worked out.
Please feel free to suggest any more additions, or strengthening of arguments.
add a comment |
I have a partial answer. I think what you need is the Cauchy criterion for convergence in probability, which says:
The sequence $left(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}right)_{ngeq 1}$ converges in probability if and only if
begin{align}
Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow} 0quad text{for every }epsilon>0.
end{align}
However, notice that
begin{align}
&Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)=Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}<-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)-2\
&stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow}2left(Q(2epsilon)+Q(-epsilon)-1right),
end{align}
where $Q(x)=intlimits_{x}^{infty} mathcal{N}(0,1),dx$.
I do not know how to find an $epsilon>0$ such that the term inside the brackets is strictly positive. I am not quite sure if we can find one at all. As I said, this is just a partial solution that I have worked out.
Please feel free to suggest any more additions, or strengthening of arguments.
add a comment |
I have a partial answer. I think what you need is the Cauchy criterion for convergence in probability, which says:
The sequence $left(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}right)_{ngeq 1}$ converges in probability if and only if
begin{align}
Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow} 0quad text{for every }epsilon>0.
end{align}
However, notice that
begin{align}
&Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)=Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}<-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)-2\
&stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow}2left(Q(2epsilon)+Q(-epsilon)-1right),
end{align}
where $Q(x)=intlimits_{x}^{infty} mathcal{N}(0,1),dx$.
I do not know how to find an $epsilon>0$ such that the term inside the brackets is strictly positive. I am not quite sure if we can find one at all. As I said, this is just a partial solution that I have worked out.
Please feel free to suggest any more additions, or strengthening of arguments.
I have a partial answer. I think what you need is the Cauchy criterion for convergence in probability, which says:
The sequence $left(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}right)_{ngeq 1}$ converges in probability if and only if
begin{align}
Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow} 0quad text{for every }epsilon>0.
end{align}
However, notice that
begin{align}
&Pleft(biggvertfrac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}biggvert>epsilonright)=Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}-frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}<-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilon,frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)\
&geq Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}>2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_n}{sqrt{n}}le-2epsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}leepsilonright)+Pleft(frac{S_m}{sqrt{m}}>-epsilonright)-2\
&stackrel{n,mtoinfty}{longrightarrow}2left(Q(2epsilon)+Q(-epsilon)-1right),
end{align}
where $Q(x)=intlimits_{x}^{infty} mathcal{N}(0,1),dx$.
I do not know how to find an $epsilon>0$ such that the term inside the brackets is strictly positive. I am not quite sure if we can find one at all. As I said, this is just a partial solution that I have worked out.
Please feel free to suggest any more additions, or strengthening of arguments.
answered Nov 29 '18 at 5:01
KarthikKarthik
977218
977218
add a comment |
add a comment |
One can easily construct an entity to which we can say that "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability".
Take for example $W_n = -X_1+X_2+X_3+...+X_n$
Then
$$lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {S_n}{sqrt n} - frac {W_n}{sqrt n}right|> epsilonright) = lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {2X_1}{sqrt n} right|> epsilonright) = 0$$
and the criterion for convergence in probability is satisfied.
So I suspect that "$S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability" must have a more specific and narrow sense in the OP's case.
On another front, the established phrase "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in distribution to a random variable Z" sometimes makes us forget that the phenomenon described by "convergence in distribution" is that the sequence of distribution functions $F_n$ of $S_n/sqrt n$ converges to a certain distribution function $F$. There is really no $Z$ "at the end of the journey" waiting to "become one" with $S_n/sqrt n$ . $Z$ is a random variable, a separate entity from the distribution that characterizes it (which characterizes also an infinite number of other such $Z$'s). If there is no random variable, the question "is $S_n/sqrt n$ independent of $Z$?" cannot even be posed.
In response to your last paragraph: Yes, I think for this reason this proof (were it valid) would necessarily have to be posed as a proof by contradiction (unlike many proofs by contradiction which can be rephrased as direct proofs of contrapositives). You have to assume the sequence converges in probability to $Z$ in order to even be able to say what $Z$ is.
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:47
1
I don't understand your construction though. To what are you claiming your $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability?
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:50
add a comment |
One can easily construct an entity to which we can say that "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability".
Take for example $W_n = -X_1+X_2+X_3+...+X_n$
Then
$$lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {S_n}{sqrt n} - frac {W_n}{sqrt n}right|> epsilonright) = lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {2X_1}{sqrt n} right|> epsilonright) = 0$$
and the criterion for convergence in probability is satisfied.
So I suspect that "$S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability" must have a more specific and narrow sense in the OP's case.
On another front, the established phrase "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in distribution to a random variable Z" sometimes makes us forget that the phenomenon described by "convergence in distribution" is that the sequence of distribution functions $F_n$ of $S_n/sqrt n$ converges to a certain distribution function $F$. There is really no $Z$ "at the end of the journey" waiting to "become one" with $S_n/sqrt n$ . $Z$ is a random variable, a separate entity from the distribution that characterizes it (which characterizes also an infinite number of other such $Z$'s). If there is no random variable, the question "is $S_n/sqrt n$ independent of $Z$?" cannot even be posed.
In response to your last paragraph: Yes, I think for this reason this proof (were it valid) would necessarily have to be posed as a proof by contradiction (unlike many proofs by contradiction which can be rephrased as direct proofs of contrapositives). You have to assume the sequence converges in probability to $Z$ in order to even be able to say what $Z$ is.
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:47
1
I don't understand your construction though. To what are you claiming your $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability?
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:50
add a comment |
One can easily construct an entity to which we can say that "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability".
Take for example $W_n = -X_1+X_2+X_3+...+X_n$
Then
$$lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {S_n}{sqrt n} - frac {W_n}{sqrt n}right|> epsilonright) = lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {2X_1}{sqrt n} right|> epsilonright) = 0$$
and the criterion for convergence in probability is satisfied.
So I suspect that "$S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability" must have a more specific and narrow sense in the OP's case.
On another front, the established phrase "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in distribution to a random variable Z" sometimes makes us forget that the phenomenon described by "convergence in distribution" is that the sequence of distribution functions $F_n$ of $S_n/sqrt n$ converges to a certain distribution function $F$. There is really no $Z$ "at the end of the journey" waiting to "become one" with $S_n/sqrt n$ . $Z$ is a random variable, a separate entity from the distribution that characterizes it (which characterizes also an infinite number of other such $Z$'s). If there is no random variable, the question "is $S_n/sqrt n$ independent of $Z$?" cannot even be posed.
One can easily construct an entity to which we can say that "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability".
Take for example $W_n = -X_1+X_2+X_3+...+X_n$
Then
$$lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {S_n}{sqrt n} - frac {W_n}{sqrt n}right|> epsilonright) = lim_{nrightarrow infty} Pleft(left|frac {2X_1}{sqrt n} right|> epsilonright) = 0$$
and the criterion for convergence in probability is satisfied.
So I suspect that "$S_n/sqrt n$ does not converge in probability" must have a more specific and narrow sense in the OP's case.
On another front, the established phrase "$S_n/sqrt n$ converges in distribution to a random variable Z" sometimes makes us forget that the phenomenon described by "convergence in distribution" is that the sequence of distribution functions $F_n$ of $S_n/sqrt n$ converges to a certain distribution function $F$. There is really no $Z$ "at the end of the journey" waiting to "become one" with $S_n/sqrt n$ . $Z$ is a random variable, a separate entity from the distribution that characterizes it (which characterizes also an infinite number of other such $Z$'s). If there is no random variable, the question "is $S_n/sqrt n$ independent of $Z$?" cannot even be posed.
edited Apr 11 '18 at 9:22
answered Jan 3 '16 at 6:15
Alecos PapadopoulosAlecos Papadopoulos
8,20811535
8,20811535
In response to your last paragraph: Yes, I think for this reason this proof (were it valid) would necessarily have to be posed as a proof by contradiction (unlike many proofs by contradiction which can be rephrased as direct proofs of contrapositives). You have to assume the sequence converges in probability to $Z$ in order to even be able to say what $Z$ is.
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:47
1
I don't understand your construction though. To what are you claiming your $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability?
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:50
add a comment |
In response to your last paragraph: Yes, I think for this reason this proof (were it valid) would necessarily have to be posed as a proof by contradiction (unlike many proofs by contradiction which can be rephrased as direct proofs of contrapositives). You have to assume the sequence converges in probability to $Z$ in order to even be able to say what $Z$ is.
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:47
1
I don't understand your construction though. To what are you claiming your $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability?
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:50
In response to your last paragraph: Yes, I think for this reason this proof (were it valid) would necessarily have to be posed as a proof by contradiction (unlike many proofs by contradiction which can be rephrased as direct proofs of contrapositives). You have to assume the sequence converges in probability to $Z$ in order to even be able to say what $Z$ is.
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:47
In response to your last paragraph: Yes, I think for this reason this proof (were it valid) would necessarily have to be posed as a proof by contradiction (unlike many proofs by contradiction which can be rephrased as direct proofs of contrapositives). You have to assume the sequence converges in probability to $Z$ in order to even be able to say what $Z$ is.
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:47
1
1
I don't understand your construction though. To what are you claiming your $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability?
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:50
I don't understand your construction though. To what are you claiming your $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability?
– Jack M
Jan 3 '16 at 7:50
add a comment |
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I would suppose that $S_n$ converges in probability for some $X_j$ (e.g., when they are normal distributed). It is only not true that it converges for all $X_j$. So it feels like there is something wrong with your proof.
– Fabian
Jan 2 '16 at 22:03
Possible duplicate of A sequence of random variables that does not converge in probability.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:31
@Winther I don't think that really answers the question - my question is specifically about whether the approach I used is valid or can be modified to be valid.
– Jack M
Jan 2 '16 at 22:34
OK, I removed the vote! I'll keep the link above as it might be useful for others.
– Winther
Jan 2 '16 at 22:35
2
If (in a different question) $Y_n$ converges in probability to a non-constant $V$, and $W$ has the same distribution as $V$ but is not almost surely identical, then $Y_n$ might be said to converge in distribution to $V$ and to $W$ but cannot be said to converge in probability to $W$. So your assertion that "if $S_n/sqrt n$ converges in probability at all it must be to $Z$" looks difficult to justify
– Henry
Dec 5 '17 at 11:31