let's play a (continuous) probability game!
$begingroup$
Here's the description of the game.
We have a target number $x$ in mind and start by picking a number $c_1$ uniformly at random from $(0, 1)$. Then $c_2$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_1)$, and in general, $c_i$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_{i -1})$. The game stops when we pick a $c_i$ such that $c_i < x$.
What is the expected number of times we'll have to pick a number $c_i$?
Alternatively, what is the expected length of the sequence of $c_i$'s?
I am guessing that the solution will be in terms of our target $x$. How would one go about approaching this problem? I thought about conditioning in terms of $c_1$, but I couldn't work it out.
Edit: we have $x in (0, 1)$.
Edit 2: I am not hell-bent on using a conditional expectation approach. But if there exists some ridiculously simple solution, I am guessing it would involve it.
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Here's the description of the game.
We have a target number $x$ in mind and start by picking a number $c_1$ uniformly at random from $(0, 1)$. Then $c_2$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_1)$, and in general, $c_i$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_{i -1})$. The game stops when we pick a $c_i$ such that $c_i < x$.
What is the expected number of times we'll have to pick a number $c_i$?
Alternatively, what is the expected length of the sequence of $c_i$'s?
I am guessing that the solution will be in terms of our target $x$. How would one go about approaching this problem? I thought about conditioning in terms of $c_1$, but I couldn't work it out.
Edit: we have $x in (0, 1)$.
Edit 2: I am not hell-bent on using a conditional expectation approach. But if there exists some ridiculously simple solution, I am guessing it would involve it.
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Here's the description of the game.
We have a target number $x$ in mind and start by picking a number $c_1$ uniformly at random from $(0, 1)$. Then $c_2$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_1)$, and in general, $c_i$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_{i -1})$. The game stops when we pick a $c_i$ such that $c_i < x$.
What is the expected number of times we'll have to pick a number $c_i$?
Alternatively, what is the expected length of the sequence of $c_i$'s?
I am guessing that the solution will be in terms of our target $x$. How would one go about approaching this problem? I thought about conditioning in terms of $c_1$, but I couldn't work it out.
Edit: we have $x in (0, 1)$.
Edit 2: I am not hell-bent on using a conditional expectation approach. But if there exists some ridiculously simple solution, I am guessing it would involve it.
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
$endgroup$
Here's the description of the game.
We have a target number $x$ in mind and start by picking a number $c_1$ uniformly at random from $(0, 1)$. Then $c_2$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_1)$, and in general, $c_i$ is picked uniformly at random from $(0, c_{i -1})$. The game stops when we pick a $c_i$ such that $c_i < x$.
What is the expected number of times we'll have to pick a number $c_i$?
Alternatively, what is the expected length of the sequence of $c_i$'s?
I am guessing that the solution will be in terms of our target $x$. How would one go about approaching this problem? I thought about conditioning in terms of $c_1$, but I couldn't work it out.
Edit: we have $x in (0, 1)$.
Edit 2: I am not hell-bent on using a conditional expectation approach. But if there exists some ridiculously simple solution, I am guessing it would involve it.
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
probability probability-theory statistics probability-distributions conditional-probability
edited Dec 2 '18 at 20:45
0k33
asked Dec 2 '18 at 16:19
0k330k33
12010
12010
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3022835%2flets-play-a-continuous-probability-game%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
$endgroup$
Given $x$, let $f(x)$ be the expected length of the game. We'll show that $f(x) = 1 - ln x$.
The probability that we finish the game on the first step is $x$; the game continues with probability $1 - x$. We therefore have
$$f(x) = 1 + (1 - x)cdot(textrm{#future moves}).$$
Now, suppose we have to continue, i.e., $c_i in (x, 1)$. Rather than choosing the next number $c_{i+1}$ from $(0, c_i)$, we can instead scale $x$ appropriately so that $c_{i+1}$ is chosen from $(0, 1)$, effectively restarting the game with $x/c_i$ instead of $x$.
To account for the infinitely many ways to choose $c_i in (x, 1)$, we can take the following integral:
$$textrm{#future moves} = frac1{1-x}int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du$$
In other words,
$$f(x) = 1 + int_x^1fleft(frac xuright) du.tag{1}$$
The rest (I'm skipping a few steps here...) is a matter of manipulating this to eventually bring it into the form of a differential equation,
$$xf''(x) = -f'(x),$$
whose general solution is $f(x) = a + bln x$. From there, using $(1)$ we find $a=1, b=-1$, solving the problem.
Given the simplicity of the final expression there may be a much more direct solution, but at the moment I don't see one.
answered Dec 2 '18 at 19:12
ThéophileThéophile
19.5k12946
19.5k12946
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
$endgroup$
This answer uses the following statements:
Lemma 1: Let $U_1,ldots,U_n$ be independent and identically distributed uniform random variables on the interval $(0,1)$. Then the probability density function of the product $U_1 ldots U_n$ is given by $$ f_n(z) = frac{(-1)^{n-1}}{(n-1)!} log^{n-1}(z) 1_{(0,1)}(z).$$
Lemma 2: $$int log^{n}(z) , dz = z sum_{k=0}^n (-1)^{n-k} frac{n!}{k!} (log z)^k, qquad n in mathbb{N}$$
Hints: Let $(U_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ be a sequence of independent random variables which are uniformly distributed on $(0,1)$.
- Define iteratively $$C_1 := U_1 qquad C_i := U_i C_{i-1}, qquad i geq 2.$$ Check that $(C_i)_{i in mathbb{N}}$ can be used to model the outcome of your probability. Show that $$C_i = prod_{j=1}^i U_j$$ for any $i in mathbb{N}$.
- Define $$tau := inf{i in mathbb{N}; C_i < x}.$$ Use the fact that the sequence $C_i$ is strictly increasing in $i$ to show that $$mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1) = mathbb{P}(C_i geq x).$$
By Step 1 and Lemma 1, we have $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = frac{(-1)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} int_x^1 log^{i-1}(z) , dz$$ Use Lemma 2 to conclude that $$mathbb{P}(C_i geq x) = 1- x sum_{k=0}^{i-1} (-1)^k frac{1}{k!} (log x)^k quad text{for $i geq 2$}.$$
Since $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = mathbb{P}(tau geq i)-mathbb{P}(tau geq i+1)$$ it follows from Step 2 and 3 that $$mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x (-1)^{i-1} frac{(log x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} quad text{for $i geq 3$}.$$ Show that $$mathbb{P}(tau=1) = x qquad mathbb{P}(tau=2) = -x log x$$
Deduce from Step 4 that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = sum_{i in mathbb{N}} i mathbb{P}(tau=i) = x +x sum_{i geq 2} i (-1)^{i-1} frac{log(x)^{i-1}}{(i-1)!}$$
Using $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = frac{d}{dz} sum_{i geq 2} frac{z^i}{(i-1)!}$$ prove that $$ sum_{i geq 2} i frac{z^{i-1}}{(i-1)!} = exp(z) (z+1)-1 $$
- Conclude that $$mathbb{E}(tau) = 1- log(x).$$
edited Dec 3 '18 at 7:49
answered Dec 2 '18 at 19:59
sazsaz
79k858123
79k858123
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
$begingroup$
thank you so much for your answer and detailed explanation :) I just wanted to let you know that I am interested in collecting other types of solutions, too, which is why I haven't marked any answer as accepted yet.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 3 '18 at 18:44
1
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yeah, sure, no problem. (I doubt that there is much more to collect but perhaps I'm wrong. )
$endgroup$
– saz
Dec 3 '18 at 19:33
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3022835%2flets-play-a-continuous-probability-game%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
How far have you gotten with this?
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:34
$begingroup$
@saulspatz the only idea I have is trying to apply some form of conditional expectation based on the first number picked (I've seen a somewhat similar, but much easier, problem before that used that approach). I couldn't flesh it out much less provide an equation for what that would look like. The question is very unintuitive to me.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 16:35
$begingroup$
Same here. It seems like it shouldn't be hard, but I can't get a handle on it. somehow.
$endgroup$
– saulspatz
Dec 2 '18 at 16:42
1
$begingroup$
@0k33 Yes, certainly the derivation is the interesting part (I've added mine below)... I wonder if there is an easier way though?
$endgroup$
– Théophile
Dec 2 '18 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
@Théophile thank you so much for your explanation! I was able to follow all of it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I do think the easier solution would have to do with conditional expectation (in fact I was suggested to use that approach). I have been beating my head on this problem all morning and cannot for the life of me see how, though.
$endgroup$
– 0k33
Dec 2 '18 at 20:18