For $n,k in {mathbb{Z}}^{+}$ (excluding $n=1$), does $frac{(n+k)!}{n!}$ ever equal $n!$











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While investigating an integer sequence, I came across the following two OEIS entries:





  • A094331: Least k such that n! < (n+1)(n+2)(n+3)...(n+k).


  • A075357: a(n) = smallest k such that (n+1)(n+2)...(n+k) is just >= n!.


The generating rule for both of these sequences is basically identical, except A094331 uses $lt$ and A075357 uses $le$. This made me curious whether both sequences are actually identical (and I'm not the first; David Wasserman commented the same thing when he was adding more terms to A075357.) For the purposes of the OEIS, the sequences are technically different, because A094331(1) = 1 and A075357(1) = 0 (i.e. for $n=1$ and $k=0$, $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$.)



In approaching this problem, I first tried computational brute forcing. For values of $n$ from 2 to 1000000, $n ne k$. However, this approach is obviously limited. Since my ability in number theory is very weak, I was wondering if anyone with a greater knowledge of number theory may be able provide a definitive answer to this question.










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  • i'm confused. For $jne m$ then $frac {(n+j)!}{n!} ne frac {(n+m)!}{n1}$ so obviously that can't be true for all $k$ and furthermore $frac {(n+k)!}{n!} = n!implies (n+k)! = (n!)^2$ which can't ever be true for $n+k> 1$ as $m!$ is never a perfect square.
    – fleablood
    Nov 22 at 1:52










  • You mean $k = 0$ in your example, right?
    – anomaly
    Nov 22 at 1:53










  • Did you mean to ask does $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$ EVER true. As it stands it seems as though you are asking is it always true which of course it isn't.
    – fleablood
    Nov 22 at 2:03










  • @anomaly Yes, I've made an edit.
    – Graham
    Nov 22 at 3:11










  • @fleablood I've also made an edit regarding your comment.
    – Graham
    Nov 22 at 3:16















up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












While investigating an integer sequence, I came across the following two OEIS entries:





  • A094331: Least k such that n! < (n+1)(n+2)(n+3)...(n+k).


  • A075357: a(n) = smallest k such that (n+1)(n+2)...(n+k) is just >= n!.


The generating rule for both of these sequences is basically identical, except A094331 uses $lt$ and A075357 uses $le$. This made me curious whether both sequences are actually identical (and I'm not the first; David Wasserman commented the same thing when he was adding more terms to A075357.) For the purposes of the OEIS, the sequences are technically different, because A094331(1) = 1 and A075357(1) = 0 (i.e. for $n=1$ and $k=0$, $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$.)



In approaching this problem, I first tried computational brute forcing. For values of $n$ from 2 to 1000000, $n ne k$. However, this approach is obviously limited. Since my ability in number theory is very weak, I was wondering if anyone with a greater knowledge of number theory may be able provide a definitive answer to this question.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • i'm confused. For $jne m$ then $frac {(n+j)!}{n!} ne frac {(n+m)!}{n1}$ so obviously that can't be true for all $k$ and furthermore $frac {(n+k)!}{n!} = n!implies (n+k)! = (n!)^2$ which can't ever be true for $n+k> 1$ as $m!$ is never a perfect square.
    – fleablood
    Nov 22 at 1:52










  • You mean $k = 0$ in your example, right?
    – anomaly
    Nov 22 at 1:53










  • Did you mean to ask does $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$ EVER true. As it stands it seems as though you are asking is it always true which of course it isn't.
    – fleablood
    Nov 22 at 2:03










  • @anomaly Yes, I've made an edit.
    – Graham
    Nov 22 at 3:11










  • @fleablood I've also made an edit regarding your comment.
    – Graham
    Nov 22 at 3:16













up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1






1





While investigating an integer sequence, I came across the following two OEIS entries:





  • A094331: Least k such that n! < (n+1)(n+2)(n+3)...(n+k).


  • A075357: a(n) = smallest k such that (n+1)(n+2)...(n+k) is just >= n!.


The generating rule for both of these sequences is basically identical, except A094331 uses $lt$ and A075357 uses $le$. This made me curious whether both sequences are actually identical (and I'm not the first; David Wasserman commented the same thing when he was adding more terms to A075357.) For the purposes of the OEIS, the sequences are technically different, because A094331(1) = 1 and A075357(1) = 0 (i.e. for $n=1$ and $k=0$, $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$.)



In approaching this problem, I first tried computational brute forcing. For values of $n$ from 2 to 1000000, $n ne k$. However, this approach is obviously limited. Since my ability in number theory is very weak, I was wondering if anyone with a greater knowledge of number theory may be able provide a definitive answer to this question.










share|cite|improve this question















While investigating an integer sequence, I came across the following two OEIS entries:





  • A094331: Least k such that n! < (n+1)(n+2)(n+3)...(n+k).


  • A075357: a(n) = smallest k such that (n+1)(n+2)...(n+k) is just >= n!.


The generating rule for both of these sequences is basically identical, except A094331 uses $lt$ and A075357 uses $le$. This made me curious whether both sequences are actually identical (and I'm not the first; David Wasserman commented the same thing when he was adding more terms to A075357.) For the purposes of the OEIS, the sequences are technically different, because A094331(1) = 1 and A075357(1) = 0 (i.e. for $n=1$ and $k=0$, $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$.)



In approaching this problem, I first tried computational brute forcing. For values of $n$ from 2 to 1000000, $n ne k$. However, this approach is obviously limited. Since my ability in number theory is very weak, I was wondering if anyone with a greater knowledge of number theory may be able provide a definitive answer to this question.







number-theory oeis






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edited Nov 22 at 3:11

























asked Nov 22 at 1:25









Graham

1157




1157












  • i'm confused. For $jne m$ then $frac {(n+j)!}{n!} ne frac {(n+m)!}{n1}$ so obviously that can't be true for all $k$ and furthermore $frac {(n+k)!}{n!} = n!implies (n+k)! = (n!)^2$ which can't ever be true for $n+k> 1$ as $m!$ is never a perfect square.
    – fleablood
    Nov 22 at 1:52










  • You mean $k = 0$ in your example, right?
    – anomaly
    Nov 22 at 1:53










  • Did you mean to ask does $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$ EVER true. As it stands it seems as though you are asking is it always true which of course it isn't.
    – fleablood
    Nov 22 at 2:03










  • @anomaly Yes, I've made an edit.
    – Graham
    Nov 22 at 3:11










  • @fleablood I've also made an edit regarding your comment.
    – Graham
    Nov 22 at 3:16


















  • i'm confused. For $jne m$ then $frac {(n+j)!}{n!} ne frac {(n+m)!}{n1}$ so obviously that can't be true for all $k$ and furthermore $frac {(n+k)!}{n!} = n!implies (n+k)! = (n!)^2$ which can't ever be true for $n+k> 1$ as $m!$ is never a perfect square.
    – fleablood
    Nov 22 at 1:52










  • You mean $k = 0$ in your example, right?
    – anomaly
    Nov 22 at 1:53










  • Did you mean to ask does $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$ EVER true. As it stands it seems as though you are asking is it always true which of course it isn't.
    – fleablood
    Nov 22 at 2:03










  • @anomaly Yes, I've made an edit.
    – Graham
    Nov 22 at 3:11










  • @fleablood I've also made an edit regarding your comment.
    – Graham
    Nov 22 at 3:16
















i'm confused. For $jne m$ then $frac {(n+j)!}{n!} ne frac {(n+m)!}{n1}$ so obviously that can't be true for all $k$ and furthermore $frac {(n+k)!}{n!} = n!implies (n+k)! = (n!)^2$ which can't ever be true for $n+k> 1$ as $m!$ is never a perfect square.
– fleablood
Nov 22 at 1:52




i'm confused. For $jne m$ then $frac {(n+j)!}{n!} ne frac {(n+m)!}{n1}$ so obviously that can't be true for all $k$ and furthermore $frac {(n+k)!}{n!} = n!implies (n+k)! = (n!)^2$ which can't ever be true for $n+k> 1$ as $m!$ is never a perfect square.
– fleablood
Nov 22 at 1:52












You mean $k = 0$ in your example, right?
– anomaly
Nov 22 at 1:53




You mean $k = 0$ in your example, right?
– anomaly
Nov 22 at 1:53












Did you mean to ask does $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$ EVER true. As it stands it seems as though you are asking is it always true which of course it isn't.
– fleablood
Nov 22 at 2:03




Did you mean to ask does $frac{(n+k)!}{n!} = n!$ EVER true. As it stands it seems as though you are asking is it always true which of course it isn't.
– fleablood
Nov 22 at 2:03












@anomaly Yes, I've made an edit.
– Graham
Nov 22 at 3:11




@anomaly Yes, I've made an edit.
– Graham
Nov 22 at 3:11












@fleablood I've also made an edit regarding your comment.
– Graham
Nov 22 at 3:16




@fleablood I've also made an edit regarding your comment.
– Graham
Nov 22 at 3:16










3 Answers
3






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accepted










By a theorem of Chebyshev, there exists for any integer $n > 1$ a prime $p$ with $n < p < 2n$. Hence $(2n)!$ and $(2n+1)$! are not perfect squares, since they're divisible by $p$ but not $p^2$. It follows that $(n+k)!/n! not = n!$ for any integers $n, k > 0$.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
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    With the exception of $N=1$, $N!$ is never a square. This is because, by Bertrand's Postulate, there is always a prime between $N$ and $lfloor N/2rfloor$ (to be precise, a prime $p$ satisfying $lfloor N/2rfloorlt ple N$), and such a prime can only divide $N!$ once. So if we take $N=n+k$ with positive integers $n$ and $k$, we have $Ngt1$ and so $N!=(n+k)!$ is not a square. In particular, it cannot be the case that $(n+k)!=(n!)^2$. Thus it is never the case that $(n+k)!/n!=n!$.



    It might be of interest to see if there is a proof that $N!$ is never the square of a factorial that doesn't rely on Bertrand's Postulate.






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      The only cases where those two sequences would differ would be when $n! = frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ or $(n+k)! = (n!)^2$ and that is the only time you can have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and $n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ not both be true or not both be false.



      anomaly's answer explains why that can never for $n > 1$.



      I just want to add that if $n = 1$ then this is $(k+1)! = 1$ which is true only if $k =0$.



      Hence the sequences do differ at $n=1$. The first term of A075357 is $0$ while the term of A094331 is $1$. Otherwise the sequences are identical. But they do differ and $n=1$



      So for A075357 you want the least $k$ so that $1! < frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and that is $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ and $1! < frac {2!}{1!}$ and that is when $1+ k = 2$ or $k =1$. But of A094331 you want the least $k$ so that $1! le frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and because $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ that is $1+k =1$ or $k = 0$.



      As for any other $n > 1$ we have $frac {(n+k)!}{n!}ne n!$ we have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!} iff n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and the sequences are equal.






      share|cite|improve this answer























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        3 Answers
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        3 Answers
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        active

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        up vote
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        down vote



        accepted










        By a theorem of Chebyshev, there exists for any integer $n > 1$ a prime $p$ with $n < p < 2n$. Hence $(2n)!$ and $(2n+1)$! are not perfect squares, since they're divisible by $p$ but not $p^2$. It follows that $(n+k)!/n! not = n!$ for any integers $n, k > 0$.






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted










          By a theorem of Chebyshev, there exists for any integer $n > 1$ a prime $p$ with $n < p < 2n$. Hence $(2n)!$ and $(2n+1)$! are not perfect squares, since they're divisible by $p$ but not $p^2$. It follows that $(n+k)!/n! not = n!$ for any integers $n, k > 0$.






          share|cite|improve this answer























            up vote
            5
            down vote



            accepted







            up vote
            5
            down vote



            accepted






            By a theorem of Chebyshev, there exists for any integer $n > 1$ a prime $p$ with $n < p < 2n$. Hence $(2n)!$ and $(2n+1)$! are not perfect squares, since they're divisible by $p$ but not $p^2$. It follows that $(n+k)!/n! not = n!$ for any integers $n, k > 0$.






            share|cite|improve this answer












            By a theorem of Chebyshev, there exists for any integer $n > 1$ a prime $p$ with $n < p < 2n$. Hence $(2n)!$ and $(2n+1)$! are not perfect squares, since they're divisible by $p$ but not $p^2$. It follows that $(n+k)!/n! not = n!$ for any integers $n, k > 0$.







            share|cite|improve this answer












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            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Nov 22 at 1:48









            anomaly

            17.2k42662




            17.2k42662






















                up vote
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                down vote













                With the exception of $N=1$, $N!$ is never a square. This is because, by Bertrand's Postulate, there is always a prime between $N$ and $lfloor N/2rfloor$ (to be precise, a prime $p$ satisfying $lfloor N/2rfloorlt ple N$), and such a prime can only divide $N!$ once. So if we take $N=n+k$ with positive integers $n$ and $k$, we have $Ngt1$ and so $N!=(n+k)!$ is not a square. In particular, it cannot be the case that $(n+k)!=(n!)^2$. Thus it is never the case that $(n+k)!/n!=n!$.



                It might be of interest to see if there is a proof that $N!$ is never the square of a factorial that doesn't rely on Bertrand's Postulate.






                share|cite|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote













                  With the exception of $N=1$, $N!$ is never a square. This is because, by Bertrand's Postulate, there is always a prime between $N$ and $lfloor N/2rfloor$ (to be precise, a prime $p$ satisfying $lfloor N/2rfloorlt ple N$), and such a prime can only divide $N!$ once. So if we take $N=n+k$ with positive integers $n$ and $k$, we have $Ngt1$ and so $N!=(n+k)!$ is not a square. In particular, it cannot be the case that $(n+k)!=(n!)^2$. Thus it is never the case that $(n+k)!/n!=n!$.



                  It might be of interest to see if there is a proof that $N!$ is never the square of a factorial that doesn't rely on Bertrand's Postulate.






                  share|cite|improve this answer























                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote









                    With the exception of $N=1$, $N!$ is never a square. This is because, by Bertrand's Postulate, there is always a prime between $N$ and $lfloor N/2rfloor$ (to be precise, a prime $p$ satisfying $lfloor N/2rfloorlt ple N$), and such a prime can only divide $N!$ once. So if we take $N=n+k$ with positive integers $n$ and $k$, we have $Ngt1$ and so $N!=(n+k)!$ is not a square. In particular, it cannot be the case that $(n+k)!=(n!)^2$. Thus it is never the case that $(n+k)!/n!=n!$.



                    It might be of interest to see if there is a proof that $N!$ is never the square of a factorial that doesn't rely on Bertrand's Postulate.






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    With the exception of $N=1$, $N!$ is never a square. This is because, by Bertrand's Postulate, there is always a prime between $N$ and $lfloor N/2rfloor$ (to be precise, a prime $p$ satisfying $lfloor N/2rfloorlt ple N$), and such a prime can only divide $N!$ once. So if we take $N=n+k$ with positive integers $n$ and $k$, we have $Ngt1$ and so $N!=(n+k)!$ is not a square. In particular, it cannot be the case that $(n+k)!=(n!)^2$. Thus it is never the case that $(n+k)!/n!=n!$.



                    It might be of interest to see if there is a proof that $N!$ is never the square of a factorial that doesn't rely on Bertrand's Postulate.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Nov 22 at 2:16









                    Barry Cipra

                    58.6k653122




                    58.6k653122






















                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        The only cases where those two sequences would differ would be when $n! = frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ or $(n+k)! = (n!)^2$ and that is the only time you can have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and $n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ not both be true or not both be false.



                        anomaly's answer explains why that can never for $n > 1$.



                        I just want to add that if $n = 1$ then this is $(k+1)! = 1$ which is true only if $k =0$.



                        Hence the sequences do differ at $n=1$. The first term of A075357 is $0$ while the term of A094331 is $1$. Otherwise the sequences are identical. But they do differ and $n=1$



                        So for A075357 you want the least $k$ so that $1! < frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and that is $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ and $1! < frac {2!}{1!}$ and that is when $1+ k = 2$ or $k =1$. But of A094331 you want the least $k$ so that $1! le frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and because $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ that is $1+k =1$ or $k = 0$.



                        As for any other $n > 1$ we have $frac {(n+k)!}{n!}ne n!$ we have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!} iff n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and the sequences are equal.






                        share|cite|improve this answer



























                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          The only cases where those two sequences would differ would be when $n! = frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ or $(n+k)! = (n!)^2$ and that is the only time you can have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and $n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ not both be true or not both be false.



                          anomaly's answer explains why that can never for $n > 1$.



                          I just want to add that if $n = 1$ then this is $(k+1)! = 1$ which is true only if $k =0$.



                          Hence the sequences do differ at $n=1$. The first term of A075357 is $0$ while the term of A094331 is $1$. Otherwise the sequences are identical. But they do differ and $n=1$



                          So for A075357 you want the least $k$ so that $1! < frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and that is $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ and $1! < frac {2!}{1!}$ and that is when $1+ k = 2$ or $k =1$. But of A094331 you want the least $k$ so that $1! le frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and because $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ that is $1+k =1$ or $k = 0$.



                          As for any other $n > 1$ we have $frac {(n+k)!}{n!}ne n!$ we have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!} iff n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and the sequences are equal.






                          share|cite|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote









                            The only cases where those two sequences would differ would be when $n! = frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ or $(n+k)! = (n!)^2$ and that is the only time you can have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and $n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ not both be true or not both be false.



                            anomaly's answer explains why that can never for $n > 1$.



                            I just want to add that if $n = 1$ then this is $(k+1)! = 1$ which is true only if $k =0$.



                            Hence the sequences do differ at $n=1$. The first term of A075357 is $0$ while the term of A094331 is $1$. Otherwise the sequences are identical. But they do differ and $n=1$



                            So for A075357 you want the least $k$ so that $1! < frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and that is $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ and $1! < frac {2!}{1!}$ and that is when $1+ k = 2$ or $k =1$. But of A094331 you want the least $k$ so that $1! le frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and because $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ that is $1+k =1$ or $k = 0$.



                            As for any other $n > 1$ we have $frac {(n+k)!}{n!}ne n!$ we have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!} iff n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and the sequences are equal.






                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            The only cases where those two sequences would differ would be when $n! = frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ or $(n+k)! = (n!)^2$ and that is the only time you can have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and $n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ not both be true or not both be false.



                            anomaly's answer explains why that can never for $n > 1$.



                            I just want to add that if $n = 1$ then this is $(k+1)! = 1$ which is true only if $k =0$.



                            Hence the sequences do differ at $n=1$. The first term of A075357 is $0$ while the term of A094331 is $1$. Otherwise the sequences are identical. But they do differ and $n=1$



                            So for A075357 you want the least $k$ so that $1! < frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and that is $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ and $1! < frac {2!}{1!}$ and that is when $1+ k = 2$ or $k =1$. But of A094331 you want the least $k$ so that $1! le frac {(1+k)!}{1!}$ and because $1! = frac {1!}{1!}$ that is $1+k =1$ or $k = 0$.



                            As for any other $n > 1$ we have $frac {(n+k)!}{n!}ne n!$ we have $n! le frac {(n+k)!}{n!} iff n! < frac {(n+k)!}{n!}$ and the sequences are equal.







                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            edited Nov 22 at 2:33

























                            answered Nov 22 at 2:10









                            fleablood

                            67.5k22684




                            67.5k22684






























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