Prove that $(H,+,circ)$ is unital commutative ring.
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Suppose that $(H,+,.)$ is a unital commutative ring. Now for all $x,y in H$ define $$x circ y= xy+yx.$$
With this operation we have another ring which is also commutative. $(H,+,circ)$
Now I have to show that this ring is also unital under $circ$ operation.
My observation:
I have to find $ein H$ such that $xcirc e=x$
$xe+ex=x$ which gives $e=1/2$ but we don't know the elements of $H$ so we can't say $1/2in H$, can we?
Please guide me. Thank you.
abstract-algebra ring-theory
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Suppose that $(H,+,.)$ is a unital commutative ring. Now for all $x,y in H$ define $$x circ y= xy+yx.$$
With this operation we have another ring which is also commutative. $(H,+,circ)$
Now I have to show that this ring is also unital under $circ$ operation.
My observation:
I have to find $ein H$ such that $xcirc e=x$
$xe+ex=x$ which gives $e=1/2$ but we don't know the elements of $H$ so we can't say $1/2in H$, can we?
Please guide me. Thank you.
abstract-algebra ring-theory
1
I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 18:22
@RobertLewis Thank You.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:24
3
It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
– Berci
Nov 22 at 18:27
1
@Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:31
What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
– Qiaochu Yuan
Nov 22 at 22:01
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Suppose that $(H,+,.)$ is a unital commutative ring. Now for all $x,y in H$ define $$x circ y= xy+yx.$$
With this operation we have another ring which is also commutative. $(H,+,circ)$
Now I have to show that this ring is also unital under $circ$ operation.
My observation:
I have to find $ein H$ such that $xcirc e=x$
$xe+ex=x$ which gives $e=1/2$ but we don't know the elements of $H$ so we can't say $1/2in H$, can we?
Please guide me. Thank you.
abstract-algebra ring-theory
Suppose that $(H,+,.)$ is a unital commutative ring. Now for all $x,y in H$ define $$x circ y= xy+yx.$$
With this operation we have another ring which is also commutative. $(H,+,circ)$
Now I have to show that this ring is also unital under $circ$ operation.
My observation:
I have to find $ein H$ such that $xcirc e=x$
$xe+ex=x$ which gives $e=1/2$ but we don't know the elements of $H$ so we can't say $1/2in H$, can we?
Please guide me. Thank you.
abstract-algebra ring-theory
abstract-algebra ring-theory
edited Nov 22 at 21:38
user26857
39.2k123882
39.2k123882
asked Nov 22 at 18:17
Hitman
1649
1649
1
I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 18:22
@RobertLewis Thank You.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:24
3
It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
– Berci
Nov 22 at 18:27
1
@Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:31
What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
– Qiaochu Yuan
Nov 22 at 22:01
|
show 1 more comment
1
I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 18:22
@RobertLewis Thank You.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:24
3
It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
– Berci
Nov 22 at 18:27
1
@Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:31
What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
– Qiaochu Yuan
Nov 22 at 22:01
1
1
I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 18:22
I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 18:22
@RobertLewis Thank You.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:24
@RobertLewis Thank You.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:24
3
3
It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
– Berci
Nov 22 at 18:27
It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
– Berci
Nov 22 at 18:27
1
1
@Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:31
@Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:31
What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
– Qiaochu Yuan
Nov 22 at 22:01
What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
– Qiaochu Yuan
Nov 22 at 22:01
|
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.
Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.
Distributivity is obvious.
Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.
Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.
Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.
If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with
$x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$
will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
first we note that since $H$ is commutative,
$x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$
then if
$exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$
we would also have, via (2),
$x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$
but then from (3),
$2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$
since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain
$2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$
which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.
Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking
$e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$
we see that
$x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$
so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that
$e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$
so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.
Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.
As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 19:17
@Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 19:31
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.
Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.
Distributivity is obvious.
Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.
Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.
Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.
If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.
Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.
Distributivity is obvious.
Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.
Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.
Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.
If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.
Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.
Distributivity is obvious.
Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.
Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.
Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.
If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.
Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.
Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.
Distributivity is obvious.
Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.
Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.
Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.
If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.
answered Nov 22 at 21:59
egreg
176k1484198
176k1484198
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with
$x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$
will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
first we note that since $H$ is commutative,
$x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$
then if
$exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$
we would also have, via (2),
$x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$
but then from (3),
$2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$
since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain
$2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$
which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.
Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking
$e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$
we see that
$x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$
so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that
$e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$
so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.
Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.
As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 19:17
@Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 19:31
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with
$x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$
will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
first we note that since $H$ is commutative,
$x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$
then if
$exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$
we would also have, via (2),
$x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$
but then from (3),
$2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$
since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain
$2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$
which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.
Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking
$e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$
we see that
$x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$
so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that
$e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$
so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.
Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.
As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 19:17
@Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 19:31
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with
$x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$
will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
first we note that since $H$ is commutative,
$x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$
then if
$exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$
we would also have, via (2),
$x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$
but then from (3),
$2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$
since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain
$2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$
which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.
Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking
$e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$
we see that
$x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$
so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that
$e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$
so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.
Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.
As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with
$x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$
will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
first we note that since $H$ is commutative,
$x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$
then if
$exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$
we would also have, via (2),
$x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$
but then from (3),
$2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$
since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain
$2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$
which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.
Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking
$e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$
we see that
$x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$
so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that
$e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$
so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.
Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.
edited Nov 22 at 19:30
answered Nov 22 at 19:12
Robert Lewis
42.8k22863
42.8k22863
As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 19:17
@Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 19:31
add a comment |
As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 19:17
@Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 19:31
As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 19:17
As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 19:17
@Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 19:31
@Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 19:31
add a comment |
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1
I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 18:22
@RobertLewis Thank You.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:24
3
It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
– Berci
Nov 22 at 18:27
1
@Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:31
What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
– Qiaochu Yuan
Nov 22 at 22:01