Prove that $(H,+,circ)$ is unital commutative ring.











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Suppose that $(H,+,.)$ is a unital commutative ring. Now for all $x,y in H$ define $$x circ y= xy+yx.$$



With this operation we have another ring which is also commutative. $(H,+,circ)$



Now I have to show that this ring is also unital under $circ$ operation.



My observation:



I have to find $ein H$ such that $xcirc e=x$



$xe+ex=x$ which gives $e=1/2$ but we don't know the elements of $H$ so we can't say $1/2in H$, can we?



Please guide me. Thank you.










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  • 1




    I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
    – Robert Lewis
    Nov 22 at 18:22










  • @RobertLewis Thank You.
    – Hitman
    Nov 22 at 18:24






  • 3




    It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
    – Berci
    Nov 22 at 18:27






  • 1




    @Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
    – Hitman
    Nov 22 at 18:31










  • What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Nov 22 at 22:01















up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1












Suppose that $(H,+,.)$ is a unital commutative ring. Now for all $x,y in H$ define $$x circ y= xy+yx.$$



With this operation we have another ring which is also commutative. $(H,+,circ)$



Now I have to show that this ring is also unital under $circ$ operation.



My observation:



I have to find $ein H$ such that $xcirc e=x$



$xe+ex=x$ which gives $e=1/2$ but we don't know the elements of $H$ so we can't say $1/2in H$, can we?



Please guide me. Thank you.










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
    – Robert Lewis
    Nov 22 at 18:22










  • @RobertLewis Thank You.
    – Hitman
    Nov 22 at 18:24






  • 3




    It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
    – Berci
    Nov 22 at 18:27






  • 1




    @Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
    – Hitman
    Nov 22 at 18:31










  • What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Nov 22 at 22:01













up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1






1





Suppose that $(H,+,.)$ is a unital commutative ring. Now for all $x,y in H$ define $$x circ y= xy+yx.$$



With this operation we have another ring which is also commutative. $(H,+,circ)$



Now I have to show that this ring is also unital under $circ$ operation.



My observation:



I have to find $ein H$ such that $xcirc e=x$



$xe+ex=x$ which gives $e=1/2$ but we don't know the elements of $H$ so we can't say $1/2in H$, can we?



Please guide me. Thank you.










share|cite|improve this question















Suppose that $(H,+,.)$ is a unital commutative ring. Now for all $x,y in H$ define $$x circ y= xy+yx.$$



With this operation we have another ring which is also commutative. $(H,+,circ)$



Now I have to show that this ring is also unital under $circ$ operation.



My observation:



I have to find $ein H$ such that $xcirc e=x$



$xe+ex=x$ which gives $e=1/2$ but we don't know the elements of $H$ so we can't say $1/2in H$, can we?



Please guide me. Thank you.







abstract-algebra ring-theory






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edited Nov 22 at 21:38









user26857

39.2k123882




39.2k123882










asked Nov 22 at 18:17









Hitman

1649




1649








  • 1




    I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
    – Robert Lewis
    Nov 22 at 18:22










  • @RobertLewis Thank You.
    – Hitman
    Nov 22 at 18:24






  • 3




    It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
    – Berci
    Nov 22 at 18:27






  • 1




    @Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
    – Hitman
    Nov 22 at 18:31










  • What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Nov 22 at 22:01














  • 1




    I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
    – Robert Lewis
    Nov 22 at 18:22










  • @RobertLewis Thank You.
    – Hitman
    Nov 22 at 18:24






  • 3




    It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
    – Berci
    Nov 22 at 18:27






  • 1




    @Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
    – Hitman
    Nov 22 at 18:31










  • What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Nov 22 at 22:01








1




1




I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 18:22




I added the "ring-theory" tag to your post. Cheers!
– Robert Lewis
Nov 22 at 18:22












@RobertLewis Thank You.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:24




@RobertLewis Thank You.
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:24




3




3




It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
– Berci
Nov 22 at 18:27




It's not true, exactly as you say, for the ring $H=Bbb Z$.
– Berci
Nov 22 at 18:27




1




1




@Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:31




@Berci But for $H=Q$ it is true. isnt it?
– Hitman
Nov 22 at 18:31












What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
– Qiaochu Yuan
Nov 22 at 22:01




What you have is not a ring, because this operation fails to be associative. But see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_algebra.
– Qiaochu Yuan
Nov 22 at 22:01










2 Answers
2






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oldest

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up vote
2
down vote



accepted










Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.



Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.



Distributivity is obvious.



Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.



Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.



Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.



If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with



    $x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$



    will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
    first we note that since $H$ is commutative,



    $x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$



    then if



    $exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$



    we would also have, via (2),



    $x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$



    but then from (3),



    $2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$



    since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain



    $2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$



    which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.



    Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking



    $e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$



    we see that



    $x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$



    so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that



    $e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$



    so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.



    Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
      – Hitman
      Nov 22 at 19:17












    • @Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
      – Robert Lewis
      Nov 22 at 19:31











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    2 Answers
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    accepted










    Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.



    Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.



    Distributivity is obvious.



    Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.



    Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.



    Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.



    If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      2
      down vote



      accepted










      Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.



      Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.



      Distributivity is obvious.



      Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.



      Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.



      Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.



      If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        2
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        2
        down vote



        accepted






        Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.



        Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.



        Distributivity is obvious.



        Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.



        Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.



        Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.



        If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        Since $H$ is commutative, $xcirc y=xy+yx=2xy$. This new multiplication is obviously commutative, but need not have a neutral element. For instance, if $H$ has characteristic $2$, we have $xcirc y=0$ for every $x,yin H$.



        Is the operation associative? $(xcirc y)circ z=(2xy)circ z=4xyz$ and $xcirc(ycirc z)=2x(ycirc z)=2x(2yz)=4xyz$.



        Distributivity is obvious.



        Note. If $n$ is an integer and $xin H$, $nx$ is the standard multiple.



        Under what condition does the circle operation have a neutral element $e$? We need it satisfies $2ex=x$, for every $x$, in particular for $mathbf{1}$ (the neutral element of $H$), so $2e=mathbf{1}$. This condition is also easily seen to be sufficient: indeed, if $2e=mathbf{1}$, then $ecirc x=2ex=mathbf{1}x=x$.



        Thus the ring $(H,+circ)$ is unital if and only if $2mathbf{1}=mathbf{1}+mathbf{1}$ is invertible in $(H,+,cdot)$. This is granted if the characteristic of $H$ is finite and coprime with $2$. It is false whenever the characteristic is divisible by $2$: if the characteristic is $2k$, then $kmathbf{1}=(kmathbf{1})circ e=2ke=0$ gives a contradiction.



        If the characteristic is $0$, it may happen or not: the identity doesn't exist for $H=mathbb{Z}$, it obviously exists for $H=mathbb{Q}$.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Nov 22 at 21:59









        egreg

        176k1484198




        176k1484198






















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with



            $x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$



            will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
            first we note that since $H$ is commutative,



            $x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$



            then if



            $exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$



            we would also have, via (2),



            $x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$



            but then from (3),



            $2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$



            since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain



            $2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$



            which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.



            Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking



            $e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$



            we see that



            $x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$



            so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that



            $e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$



            so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.



            Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
              – Hitman
              Nov 22 at 19:17












            • @Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
              – Robert Lewis
              Nov 22 at 19:31















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with



            $x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$



            will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
            first we note that since $H$ is commutative,



            $x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$



            then if



            $exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$



            we would also have, via (2),



            $x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$



            but then from (3),



            $2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$



            since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain



            $2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$



            which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.



            Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking



            $e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$



            we see that



            $x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$



            so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that



            $e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$



            so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.



            Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
              – Hitman
              Nov 22 at 19:17












            • @Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
              – Robert Lewis
              Nov 22 at 19:31













            up vote
            1
            down vote










            up vote
            1
            down vote









            As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with



            $x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$



            will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
            first we note that since $H$ is commutative,



            $x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$



            then if



            $exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$



            we would also have, via (2),



            $x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$



            but then from (3),



            $2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$



            since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain



            $2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$



            which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.



            Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking



            $e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$



            we see that



            $x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$



            so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that



            $e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$



            so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.



            Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            As is pointed out in the comments, the construction which replaces $xy$ with



            $x circ y = xy + yx tag 1$



            will leave the ring $Bbb Z$ unitless under the multiplication operation "$circ$";
            first we note that since $H$ is commutative,



            $x circ y = xy + yx = xy + xy = 2xy; tag 2$



            then if



            $exists e in Bbb Z, ; x circ e = e circ x = x, tag 3$



            we would also have, via (2),



            $x circ e = 2xe; tag 4$



            but then from (3),



            $2xe = x Longrightarrow 2xe - x = 0 Longrightarrow x(2e - 1) = 0; tag 5$



            since $Bbb Z$ is an integral domain, if $x ne 0$ we obtain



            $2e - 1 = 0, tag 6$



            which has no solution in $Bbb Z$.



            Will this construction work in $Bbb Q$? In this case, we still find that (2) binds; therefore so do (4)-(6), and taking



            $e = dfrac{1}{2}, tag 7$



            we see that



            $x circ e = x circ dfrac{1}{2} = 2 dfrac{1}{2} x = x, tag 8$



            so apparently $e = 1/2$ is indeed the unit of $(H, +, circ) = (Bbb Q, +, circ)$. As a check, we observe that



            $e circ e = 2 left ( dfrac{1}{2} right )^2 = 2 dfrac{1}{4} = dfrac{1}{2} = e, tag 9$



            so $e$ is idempotent with respect to $circ$, as should be true of any unit.



            Nota Bene: Caveat Emptor!!! I have confined my remarks here to the specific questions surrounding $e$; I have granted our OP Hitman's (perhaps tacit) assertion that indeed $(H, +, circ)$ does indeed satisfy all the ring axioms, such as associativity, distributivity, etc, without checking them myself. End of Note.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Nov 22 at 19:30

























            answered Nov 22 at 19:12









            Robert Lewis

            42.8k22863




            42.8k22863












            • As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
              – Hitman
              Nov 22 at 19:17












            • @Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
              – Robert Lewis
              Nov 22 at 19:31


















            • As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
              – Hitman
              Nov 22 at 19:17












            • @Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
              – Robert Lewis
              Nov 22 at 19:31
















            As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
            – Hitman
            Nov 22 at 19:17






            As stated in my comment above I know that for $Q$ it is true. But how can we prove it for any ring $H$? as the ring given in the question is $H$.
            – Hitman
            Nov 22 at 19:17














            @Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
            – Robert Lewis
            Nov 22 at 19:31




            @Hitman: I'll add a few words to my answer. Stay tuned.
            – Robert Lewis
            Nov 22 at 19:31


















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