Why is this relation antisymmetric?
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$mathcal{R} = {(1,2), (2,3), (3,4)} :: mathcal{A} = {1, 2, 3, 4}$
The definition of antisymmetric states if $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ are both elements of $mathcal{R} implies a = b$. However, $(b,a)$ is not an element and yet it is considered antisymmetrical. What is the reasoning behind this?
discrete-mathematics
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$mathcal{R} = {(1,2), (2,3), (3,4)} :: mathcal{A} = {1, 2, 3, 4}$
The definition of antisymmetric states if $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ are both elements of $mathcal{R} implies a = b$. However, $(b,a)$ is not an element and yet it is considered antisymmetrical. What is the reasoning behind this?
discrete-mathematics
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
$mathcal{R} = {(1,2), (2,3), (3,4)} :: mathcal{A} = {1, 2, 3, 4}$
The definition of antisymmetric states if $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ are both elements of $mathcal{R} implies a = b$. However, $(b,a)$ is not an element and yet it is considered antisymmetrical. What is the reasoning behind this?
discrete-mathematics
$mathcal{R} = {(1,2), (2,3), (3,4)} :: mathcal{A} = {1, 2, 3, 4}$
The definition of antisymmetric states if $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ are both elements of $mathcal{R} implies a = b$. However, $(b,a)$ is not an element and yet it is considered antisymmetrical. What is the reasoning behind this?
discrete-mathematics
discrete-mathematics
edited Nov 22 at 18:18
Yadati Kiran
1,350418
1,350418
asked Nov 22 at 18:06
VLD
112
112
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3 Answers
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2
down vote
You are confused with the definition of symmetric relation here, for symmetric relation we need $(b,a)$ if we have $(a,b)$ in $R$. In other hand, we call a relation anti-symmetric, if it contains $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ then $a=b$. That means- if there exist some pair $(a,b)$ and also $(b,a)$ with $aneq b$, then the relation is not anti-symmetric. More simply,in anti-symmetric relation we can't have $(a,b)$ with unequal elements $a$ and $b$ such that both $(a,b),(b,a)in R$.
For visual aid, you can think of a $ntimes n$ table, with $n$ elements of the set(on which you are defining the relation) on top and $n$ in left. We will write $1$ in $(i,j)$ position if $i$ is related to $j$ and $0$ otherwise. Observe that, for anti-symmetric relation, if you have $1$ in $(h,k)$ for some $h$ and $k$ with $hneq k$ then you can't have $1$ at $(k,h)$(though entries at $(i,i)$ will be $1$). But for symmetric relation, if you have $1$ at $(a,b)$ then you must have $1$ at $(b,a)$.
For the given relation follow the tables below:
$$
begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig I} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \
hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0
end{array}~~~~~~begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig II} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 1 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0
end{array}
$$
Observe that, $text{Fig I}$ doesn't contain the $1$ at the diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed. Hence, is the anti-symmetric relation. $text{Fig II}$ contains $1$ for every diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed above the diagonal-this type of table corresponds to symmetric relation.
Both may contain $1$ at the diagonal, means $(i,i)$ position for $iin{1,2,3,4}$.
Hope it will help to distinguish between different kind of relations. (Can you work out how the table will look like reflexive or say asymmetric?)
The table for reflexive would have 1s only along the main diagonal (i,i) and asymmetrical would have 0s along the main diagonal as well as underneath the main diagonal because (j,i) is not part of R.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:43
Great! have you got my explanation?
– tarit goswami
Nov 22 at 19:44
Yes! It was very useful. I missed the part about the definition being an implication.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:52
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The definition of an anti-symmetric relation can be thought of as follows:
$$forall a, b in mathcal{A} ,, left[((a neq b) longrightarrow ((a,b) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((b,a) notin mathcal{R}))right].$$
So the implication is false ONLY when we have $a,b in mathcal{A}$ such that $a neq b$ and BOTH $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ are in the relation $mathcal{R}$.
Consider $a=1,b=2$. Here $a neq b$ is true, so the hypothesis of the implication is true. Now $(1,2) in mathcal{R}$ and $(2,1) notin mathcal{R}$. This means the conclusion of the (above) implication
$$((1,2) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((2,1) notin mathcal{R})$$
is true. So the whole implication is true. Now you can check the remaining pairs as well.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
When the statement does not say anything about what happens when both are not elements of $R$ as in this case, we can say that this statement is true because for a statement $p$, $F implies p$ is always $T$ (For $p = F$, $F implies F = T$ and for $p = T$, $F implies T = T$).
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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You are confused with the definition of symmetric relation here, for symmetric relation we need $(b,a)$ if we have $(a,b)$ in $R$. In other hand, we call a relation anti-symmetric, if it contains $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ then $a=b$. That means- if there exist some pair $(a,b)$ and also $(b,a)$ with $aneq b$, then the relation is not anti-symmetric. More simply,in anti-symmetric relation we can't have $(a,b)$ with unequal elements $a$ and $b$ such that both $(a,b),(b,a)in R$.
For visual aid, you can think of a $ntimes n$ table, with $n$ elements of the set(on which you are defining the relation) on top and $n$ in left. We will write $1$ in $(i,j)$ position if $i$ is related to $j$ and $0$ otherwise. Observe that, for anti-symmetric relation, if you have $1$ in $(h,k)$ for some $h$ and $k$ with $hneq k$ then you can't have $1$ at $(k,h)$(though entries at $(i,i)$ will be $1$). But for symmetric relation, if you have $1$ at $(a,b)$ then you must have $1$ at $(b,a)$.
For the given relation follow the tables below:
$$
begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig I} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \
hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0
end{array}~~~~~~begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig II} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 1 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0
end{array}
$$
Observe that, $text{Fig I}$ doesn't contain the $1$ at the diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed. Hence, is the anti-symmetric relation. $text{Fig II}$ contains $1$ for every diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed above the diagonal-this type of table corresponds to symmetric relation.
Both may contain $1$ at the diagonal, means $(i,i)$ position for $iin{1,2,3,4}$.
Hope it will help to distinguish between different kind of relations. (Can you work out how the table will look like reflexive or say asymmetric?)
The table for reflexive would have 1s only along the main diagonal (i,i) and asymmetrical would have 0s along the main diagonal as well as underneath the main diagonal because (j,i) is not part of R.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:43
Great! have you got my explanation?
– tarit goswami
Nov 22 at 19:44
Yes! It was very useful. I missed the part about the definition being an implication.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:52
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
You are confused with the definition of symmetric relation here, for symmetric relation we need $(b,a)$ if we have $(a,b)$ in $R$. In other hand, we call a relation anti-symmetric, if it contains $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ then $a=b$. That means- if there exist some pair $(a,b)$ and also $(b,a)$ with $aneq b$, then the relation is not anti-symmetric. More simply,in anti-symmetric relation we can't have $(a,b)$ with unequal elements $a$ and $b$ such that both $(a,b),(b,a)in R$.
For visual aid, you can think of a $ntimes n$ table, with $n$ elements of the set(on which you are defining the relation) on top and $n$ in left. We will write $1$ in $(i,j)$ position if $i$ is related to $j$ and $0$ otherwise. Observe that, for anti-symmetric relation, if you have $1$ in $(h,k)$ for some $h$ and $k$ with $hneq k$ then you can't have $1$ at $(k,h)$(though entries at $(i,i)$ will be $1$). But for symmetric relation, if you have $1$ at $(a,b)$ then you must have $1$ at $(b,a)$.
For the given relation follow the tables below:
$$
begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig I} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \
hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0
end{array}~~~~~~begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig II} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 1 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0
end{array}
$$
Observe that, $text{Fig I}$ doesn't contain the $1$ at the diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed. Hence, is the anti-symmetric relation. $text{Fig II}$ contains $1$ for every diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed above the diagonal-this type of table corresponds to symmetric relation.
Both may contain $1$ at the diagonal, means $(i,i)$ position for $iin{1,2,3,4}$.
Hope it will help to distinguish between different kind of relations. (Can you work out how the table will look like reflexive or say asymmetric?)
The table for reflexive would have 1s only along the main diagonal (i,i) and asymmetrical would have 0s along the main diagonal as well as underneath the main diagonal because (j,i) is not part of R.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:43
Great! have you got my explanation?
– tarit goswami
Nov 22 at 19:44
Yes! It was very useful. I missed the part about the definition being an implication.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:52
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
You are confused with the definition of symmetric relation here, for symmetric relation we need $(b,a)$ if we have $(a,b)$ in $R$. In other hand, we call a relation anti-symmetric, if it contains $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ then $a=b$. That means- if there exist some pair $(a,b)$ and also $(b,a)$ with $aneq b$, then the relation is not anti-symmetric. More simply,in anti-symmetric relation we can't have $(a,b)$ with unequal elements $a$ and $b$ such that both $(a,b),(b,a)in R$.
For visual aid, you can think of a $ntimes n$ table, with $n$ elements of the set(on which you are defining the relation) on top and $n$ in left. We will write $1$ in $(i,j)$ position if $i$ is related to $j$ and $0$ otherwise. Observe that, for anti-symmetric relation, if you have $1$ in $(h,k)$ for some $h$ and $k$ with $hneq k$ then you can't have $1$ at $(k,h)$(though entries at $(i,i)$ will be $1$). But for symmetric relation, if you have $1$ at $(a,b)$ then you must have $1$ at $(b,a)$.
For the given relation follow the tables below:
$$
begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig I} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \
hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0
end{array}~~~~~~begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig II} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 1 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0
end{array}
$$
Observe that, $text{Fig I}$ doesn't contain the $1$ at the diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed. Hence, is the anti-symmetric relation. $text{Fig II}$ contains $1$ for every diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed above the diagonal-this type of table corresponds to symmetric relation.
Both may contain $1$ at the diagonal, means $(i,i)$ position for $iin{1,2,3,4}$.
Hope it will help to distinguish between different kind of relations. (Can you work out how the table will look like reflexive or say asymmetric?)
You are confused with the definition of symmetric relation here, for symmetric relation we need $(b,a)$ if we have $(a,b)$ in $R$. In other hand, we call a relation anti-symmetric, if it contains $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ then $a=b$. That means- if there exist some pair $(a,b)$ and also $(b,a)$ with $aneq b$, then the relation is not anti-symmetric. More simply,in anti-symmetric relation we can't have $(a,b)$ with unequal elements $a$ and $b$ such that both $(a,b),(b,a)in R$.
For visual aid, you can think of a $ntimes n$ table, with $n$ elements of the set(on which you are defining the relation) on top and $n$ in left. We will write $1$ in $(i,j)$ position if $i$ is related to $j$ and $0$ otherwise. Observe that, for anti-symmetric relation, if you have $1$ in $(h,k)$ for some $h$ and $k$ with $hneq k$ then you can't have $1$ at $(k,h)$(though entries at $(i,i)$ will be $1$). But for symmetric relation, if you have $1$ at $(a,b)$ then you must have $1$ at $(b,a)$.
For the given relation follow the tables below:
$$
begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig I} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \
hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0
end{array}~~~~~~begin{array}{c|lcr}
text{Fig II} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 \hline
1 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
2 & 1 & 0 & 1 & 0 \
3 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 1\
4 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0
end{array}
$$
Observe that, $text{Fig I}$ doesn't contain the $1$ at the diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed. Hence, is the anti-symmetric relation. $text{Fig II}$ contains $1$ for every diagonally opposite position where $1$ is placed above the diagonal-this type of table corresponds to symmetric relation.
Both may contain $1$ at the diagonal, means $(i,i)$ position for $iin{1,2,3,4}$.
Hope it will help to distinguish between different kind of relations. (Can you work out how the table will look like reflexive or say asymmetric?)
edited Nov 22 at 19:23
answered Nov 22 at 18:14
tarit goswami
1,7001421
1,7001421
The table for reflexive would have 1s only along the main diagonal (i,i) and asymmetrical would have 0s along the main diagonal as well as underneath the main diagonal because (j,i) is not part of R.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:43
Great! have you got my explanation?
– tarit goswami
Nov 22 at 19:44
Yes! It was very useful. I missed the part about the definition being an implication.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:52
add a comment |
The table for reflexive would have 1s only along the main diagonal (i,i) and asymmetrical would have 0s along the main diagonal as well as underneath the main diagonal because (j,i) is not part of R.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:43
Great! have you got my explanation?
– tarit goswami
Nov 22 at 19:44
Yes! It was very useful. I missed the part about the definition being an implication.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:52
The table for reflexive would have 1s only along the main diagonal (i,i) and asymmetrical would have 0s along the main diagonal as well as underneath the main diagonal because (j,i) is not part of R.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:43
The table for reflexive would have 1s only along the main diagonal (i,i) and asymmetrical would have 0s along the main diagonal as well as underneath the main diagonal because (j,i) is not part of R.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:43
Great! have you got my explanation?
– tarit goswami
Nov 22 at 19:44
Great! have you got my explanation?
– tarit goswami
Nov 22 at 19:44
Yes! It was very useful. I missed the part about the definition being an implication.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:52
Yes! It was very useful. I missed the part about the definition being an implication.
– VLD
Nov 22 at 19:52
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The definition of an anti-symmetric relation can be thought of as follows:
$$forall a, b in mathcal{A} ,, left[((a neq b) longrightarrow ((a,b) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((b,a) notin mathcal{R}))right].$$
So the implication is false ONLY when we have $a,b in mathcal{A}$ such that $a neq b$ and BOTH $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ are in the relation $mathcal{R}$.
Consider $a=1,b=2$. Here $a neq b$ is true, so the hypothesis of the implication is true. Now $(1,2) in mathcal{R}$ and $(2,1) notin mathcal{R}$. This means the conclusion of the (above) implication
$$((1,2) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((2,1) notin mathcal{R})$$
is true. So the whole implication is true. Now you can check the remaining pairs as well.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The definition of an anti-symmetric relation can be thought of as follows:
$$forall a, b in mathcal{A} ,, left[((a neq b) longrightarrow ((a,b) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((b,a) notin mathcal{R}))right].$$
So the implication is false ONLY when we have $a,b in mathcal{A}$ such that $a neq b$ and BOTH $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ are in the relation $mathcal{R}$.
Consider $a=1,b=2$. Here $a neq b$ is true, so the hypothesis of the implication is true. Now $(1,2) in mathcal{R}$ and $(2,1) notin mathcal{R}$. This means the conclusion of the (above) implication
$$((1,2) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((2,1) notin mathcal{R})$$
is true. So the whole implication is true. Now you can check the remaining pairs as well.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The definition of an anti-symmetric relation can be thought of as follows:
$$forall a, b in mathcal{A} ,, left[((a neq b) longrightarrow ((a,b) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((b,a) notin mathcal{R}))right].$$
So the implication is false ONLY when we have $a,b in mathcal{A}$ such that $a neq b$ and BOTH $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ are in the relation $mathcal{R}$.
Consider $a=1,b=2$. Here $a neq b$ is true, so the hypothesis of the implication is true. Now $(1,2) in mathcal{R}$ and $(2,1) notin mathcal{R}$. This means the conclusion of the (above) implication
$$((1,2) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((2,1) notin mathcal{R})$$
is true. So the whole implication is true. Now you can check the remaining pairs as well.
The definition of an anti-symmetric relation can be thought of as follows:
$$forall a, b in mathcal{A} ,, left[((a neq b) longrightarrow ((a,b) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((b,a) notin mathcal{R}))right].$$
So the implication is false ONLY when we have $a,b in mathcal{A}$ such that $a neq b$ and BOTH $(a,b)$ and $(b,a)$ are in the relation $mathcal{R}$.
Consider $a=1,b=2$. Here $a neq b$ is true, so the hypothesis of the implication is true. Now $(1,2) in mathcal{R}$ and $(2,1) notin mathcal{R}$. This means the conclusion of the (above) implication
$$((1,2) notin mathcal{R}) vee ((2,1) notin mathcal{R})$$
is true. So the whole implication is true. Now you can check the remaining pairs as well.
edited Nov 22 at 20:03
answered Nov 22 at 19:31
Anurag A
25.4k12249
25.4k12249
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
When the statement does not say anything about what happens when both are not elements of $R$ as in this case, we can say that this statement is true because for a statement $p$, $F implies p$ is always $T$ (For $p = F$, $F implies F = T$ and for $p = T$, $F implies T = T$).
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
When the statement does not say anything about what happens when both are not elements of $R$ as in this case, we can say that this statement is true because for a statement $p$, $F implies p$ is always $T$ (For $p = F$, $F implies F = T$ and for $p = T$, $F implies T = T$).
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
When the statement does not say anything about what happens when both are not elements of $R$ as in this case, we can say that this statement is true because for a statement $p$, $F implies p$ is always $T$ (For $p = F$, $F implies F = T$ and for $p = T$, $F implies T = T$).
When the statement does not say anything about what happens when both are not elements of $R$ as in this case, we can say that this statement is true because for a statement $p$, $F implies p$ is always $T$ (For $p = F$, $F implies F = T$ and for $p = T$, $F implies T = T$).
answered Nov 22 at 18:11
ArsenBerk
7,55831338
7,55831338
add a comment |
add a comment |
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