Applying the Pigeonhole Principle to a Set of Subsets











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Let $A$ be a set of six positive integers each of which is less
than $15$. Show that there must be two distinct subsets of $A$ whose elements when added up give the same sum.




This is what I've tried so far.



There are $2 ^ 6 = 64$ subsets of $A$. We can also calculate the largest possible sum of a subset to be $14+13+12+11+10+9 = 69$. The smallest possible sum for a subset is $0$. Thus, there are $70$ possible sums, but only $63$ possible subsets $($assuming we exclude the empty set$)$. Is there something I am missing so that I can apply the pigeonhole principle?










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    up vote
    3
    down vote

    favorite













    Let $A$ be a set of six positive integers each of which is less
    than $15$. Show that there must be two distinct subsets of $A$ whose elements when added up give the same sum.




    This is what I've tried so far.



    There are $2 ^ 6 = 64$ subsets of $A$. We can also calculate the largest possible sum of a subset to be $14+13+12+11+10+9 = 69$. The smallest possible sum for a subset is $0$. Thus, there are $70$ possible sums, but only $63$ possible subsets $($assuming we exclude the empty set$)$. Is there something I am missing so that I can apply the pigeonhole principle?










    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite












      Let $A$ be a set of six positive integers each of which is less
      than $15$. Show that there must be two distinct subsets of $A$ whose elements when added up give the same sum.




      This is what I've tried so far.



      There are $2 ^ 6 = 64$ subsets of $A$. We can also calculate the largest possible sum of a subset to be $14+13+12+11+10+9 = 69$. The smallest possible sum for a subset is $0$. Thus, there are $70$ possible sums, but only $63$ possible subsets $($assuming we exclude the empty set$)$. Is there something I am missing so that I can apply the pigeonhole principle?










      share|cite|improve this question
















      Let $A$ be a set of six positive integers each of which is less
      than $15$. Show that there must be two distinct subsets of $A$ whose elements when added up give the same sum.




      This is what I've tried so far.



      There are $2 ^ 6 = 64$ subsets of $A$. We can also calculate the largest possible sum of a subset to be $14+13+12+11+10+9 = 69$. The smallest possible sum for a subset is $0$. Thus, there are $70$ possible sums, but only $63$ possible subsets $($assuming we exclude the empty set$)$. Is there something I am missing so that I can apply the pigeonhole principle?







      probability discrete-mathematics pigeonhole-principle






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      edited 2 days ago









      Key Flex

      6,68921128




      6,68921128










      asked Nov 18 at 2:29









      John Rolding

      12619




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          2 Answers
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          You're on the right track, but are indeed missing a few small things.



          First, note that you can only get that highest possible sum of $69$ if $A ={ 9,10,11,12,13,14 }$. But any non-empty subset of that set has a sum of at least $9$, meaning that for any non-empty subset of this particular set, the sum of its members is at least $9$, and at most $69$, meaning that there are only $61$ possible sums for this subset, rather than $69$. Hence, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set.



          OK, but how can we be sure the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$?



          Well, note that the key observation we made regarding the specific set above was that the difference between the highest sum and lowest sum of non-empty subsets was $60$, and that was because that set contained the numbers $10$ through $14$. And now note that for any set, this difference between the highest and lowest set can never be greater than that, and is for most sets smaller than that.



          So, we can say that for any set $A$, there are at most $61$ possible sums for the non-empty subsets of $A$, but there are $63$ non-empty subsets of $A$. So yes, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$ to show that there must always be two subsets with the same sum.






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • @ Bram 28 Just to clarify, is my mistake that I assumed that there are 70 possible sums for all of the subsets of all possible sets A when I should have been considering the number of possible sums for a given set A?
            – John Rolding
            Nov 18 at 2:51








          • 1




            @JohnRolding Exactly! Indeed, it is not enough show that the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set with numbers $9$ through $14$, but that it can be applied to any set $A$.
            – Bram28
            Nov 18 at 2:57




















          up vote
          2
          down vote













          Your approach is correct.



          The largest possible sum for any subset must be $69$ since $69 = 14+ 13+ 12 + 11 + 10 + 9$.



          The smallest possible sum is $0$ since all the integers are positive but we may take the empty set. Thus there are $70$ possible sums. We create a function from the subsets to the integers from $0$ to $69$. A subset gets mapped to the sum of its elements. There are $64$ possible subsets of a six element set.



          Thus, since $64 < 70$, there doesn't exists a number which has two subsets mapped to it.



          Therefore, there doesn't exists two subsets with the same sum.



          To prove that there must be two distinct subsets of $A$ by using pigeonhole principle, then the sum of the of six positive integers should be less than $2^6=64$






          share|cite|improve this answer























            Your Answer





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            2 Answers
            2






            active

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted










            You're on the right track, but are indeed missing a few small things.



            First, note that you can only get that highest possible sum of $69$ if $A ={ 9,10,11,12,13,14 }$. But any non-empty subset of that set has a sum of at least $9$, meaning that for any non-empty subset of this particular set, the sum of its members is at least $9$, and at most $69$, meaning that there are only $61$ possible sums for this subset, rather than $69$. Hence, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set.



            OK, but how can we be sure the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$?



            Well, note that the key observation we made regarding the specific set above was that the difference between the highest sum and lowest sum of non-empty subsets was $60$, and that was because that set contained the numbers $10$ through $14$. And now note that for any set, this difference between the highest and lowest set can never be greater than that, and is for most sets smaller than that.



            So, we can say that for any set $A$, there are at most $61$ possible sums for the non-empty subsets of $A$, but there are $63$ non-empty subsets of $A$. So yes, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$ to show that there must always be two subsets with the same sum.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • @ Bram 28 Just to clarify, is my mistake that I assumed that there are 70 possible sums for all of the subsets of all possible sets A when I should have been considering the number of possible sums for a given set A?
              – John Rolding
              Nov 18 at 2:51








            • 1




              @JohnRolding Exactly! Indeed, it is not enough show that the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set with numbers $9$ through $14$, but that it can be applied to any set $A$.
              – Bram28
              Nov 18 at 2:57

















            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted










            You're on the right track, but are indeed missing a few small things.



            First, note that you can only get that highest possible sum of $69$ if $A ={ 9,10,11,12,13,14 }$. But any non-empty subset of that set has a sum of at least $9$, meaning that for any non-empty subset of this particular set, the sum of its members is at least $9$, and at most $69$, meaning that there are only $61$ possible sums for this subset, rather than $69$. Hence, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set.



            OK, but how can we be sure the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$?



            Well, note that the key observation we made regarding the specific set above was that the difference between the highest sum and lowest sum of non-empty subsets was $60$, and that was because that set contained the numbers $10$ through $14$. And now note that for any set, this difference between the highest and lowest set can never be greater than that, and is for most sets smaller than that.



            So, we can say that for any set $A$, there are at most $61$ possible sums for the non-empty subsets of $A$, but there are $63$ non-empty subsets of $A$. So yes, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$ to show that there must always be two subsets with the same sum.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • @ Bram 28 Just to clarify, is my mistake that I assumed that there are 70 possible sums for all of the subsets of all possible sets A when I should have been considering the number of possible sums for a given set A?
              – John Rolding
              Nov 18 at 2:51








            • 1




              @JohnRolding Exactly! Indeed, it is not enough show that the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set with numbers $9$ through $14$, but that it can be applied to any set $A$.
              – Bram28
              Nov 18 at 2:57















            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted







            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted






            You're on the right track, but are indeed missing a few small things.



            First, note that you can only get that highest possible sum of $69$ if $A ={ 9,10,11,12,13,14 }$. But any non-empty subset of that set has a sum of at least $9$, meaning that for any non-empty subset of this particular set, the sum of its members is at least $9$, and at most $69$, meaning that there are only $61$ possible sums for this subset, rather than $69$. Hence, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set.



            OK, but how can we be sure the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$?



            Well, note that the key observation we made regarding the specific set above was that the difference between the highest sum and lowest sum of non-empty subsets was $60$, and that was because that set contained the numbers $10$ through $14$. And now note that for any set, this difference between the highest and lowest set can never be greater than that, and is for most sets smaller than that.



            So, we can say that for any set $A$, there are at most $61$ possible sums for the non-empty subsets of $A$, but there are $63$ non-empty subsets of $A$. So yes, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$ to show that there must always be two subsets with the same sum.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            You're on the right track, but are indeed missing a few small things.



            First, note that you can only get that highest possible sum of $69$ if $A ={ 9,10,11,12,13,14 }$. But any non-empty subset of that set has a sum of at least $9$, meaning that for any non-empty subset of this particular set, the sum of its members is at least $9$, and at most $69$, meaning that there are only $61$ possible sums for this subset, rather than $69$. Hence, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set.



            OK, but how can we be sure the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$?



            Well, note that the key observation we made regarding the specific set above was that the difference between the highest sum and lowest sum of non-empty subsets was $60$, and that was because that set contained the numbers $10$ through $14$. And now note that for any set, this difference between the highest and lowest set can never be greater than that, and is for most sets smaller than that.



            So, we can say that for any set $A$, there are at most $61$ possible sums for the non-empty subsets of $A$, but there are $63$ non-empty subsets of $A$. So yes, the pigeonhole principle can be applied to any set $A$ to show that there must always be two subsets with the same sum.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited 2 days ago

























            answered Nov 18 at 2:45









            Bram28

            58.1k44185




            58.1k44185












            • @ Bram 28 Just to clarify, is my mistake that I assumed that there are 70 possible sums for all of the subsets of all possible sets A when I should have been considering the number of possible sums for a given set A?
              – John Rolding
              Nov 18 at 2:51








            • 1




              @JohnRolding Exactly! Indeed, it is not enough show that the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set with numbers $9$ through $14$, but that it can be applied to any set $A$.
              – Bram28
              Nov 18 at 2:57




















            • @ Bram 28 Just to clarify, is my mistake that I assumed that there are 70 possible sums for all of the subsets of all possible sets A when I should have been considering the number of possible sums for a given set A?
              – John Rolding
              Nov 18 at 2:51








            • 1




              @JohnRolding Exactly! Indeed, it is not enough show that the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set with numbers $9$ through $14$, but that it can be applied to any set $A$.
              – Bram28
              Nov 18 at 2:57


















            @ Bram 28 Just to clarify, is my mistake that I assumed that there are 70 possible sums for all of the subsets of all possible sets A when I should have been considering the number of possible sums for a given set A?
            – John Rolding
            Nov 18 at 2:51






            @ Bram 28 Just to clarify, is my mistake that I assumed that there are 70 possible sums for all of the subsets of all possible sets A when I should have been considering the number of possible sums for a given set A?
            – John Rolding
            Nov 18 at 2:51






            1




            1




            @JohnRolding Exactly! Indeed, it is not enough show that the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set with numbers $9$ through $14$, but that it can be applied to any set $A$.
            – Bram28
            Nov 18 at 2:57






            @JohnRolding Exactly! Indeed, it is not enough show that the pigeonhole principle can be applied to this particular set with numbers $9$ through $14$, but that it can be applied to any set $A$.
            – Bram28
            Nov 18 at 2:57












            up vote
            2
            down vote













            Your approach is correct.



            The largest possible sum for any subset must be $69$ since $69 = 14+ 13+ 12 + 11 + 10 + 9$.



            The smallest possible sum is $0$ since all the integers are positive but we may take the empty set. Thus there are $70$ possible sums. We create a function from the subsets to the integers from $0$ to $69$. A subset gets mapped to the sum of its elements. There are $64$ possible subsets of a six element set.



            Thus, since $64 < 70$, there doesn't exists a number which has two subsets mapped to it.



            Therefore, there doesn't exists two subsets with the same sum.



            To prove that there must be two distinct subsets of $A$ by using pigeonhole principle, then the sum of the of six positive integers should be less than $2^6=64$






            share|cite|improve this answer



























              up vote
              2
              down vote













              Your approach is correct.



              The largest possible sum for any subset must be $69$ since $69 = 14+ 13+ 12 + 11 + 10 + 9$.



              The smallest possible sum is $0$ since all the integers are positive but we may take the empty set. Thus there are $70$ possible sums. We create a function from the subsets to the integers from $0$ to $69$. A subset gets mapped to the sum of its elements. There are $64$ possible subsets of a six element set.



              Thus, since $64 < 70$, there doesn't exists a number which has two subsets mapped to it.



              Therefore, there doesn't exists two subsets with the same sum.



              To prove that there must be two distinct subsets of $A$ by using pigeonhole principle, then the sum of the of six positive integers should be less than $2^6=64$






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                2
                down vote










                up vote
                2
                down vote









                Your approach is correct.



                The largest possible sum for any subset must be $69$ since $69 = 14+ 13+ 12 + 11 + 10 + 9$.



                The smallest possible sum is $0$ since all the integers are positive but we may take the empty set. Thus there are $70$ possible sums. We create a function from the subsets to the integers from $0$ to $69$. A subset gets mapped to the sum of its elements. There are $64$ possible subsets of a six element set.



                Thus, since $64 < 70$, there doesn't exists a number which has two subsets mapped to it.



                Therefore, there doesn't exists two subsets with the same sum.



                To prove that there must be two distinct subsets of $A$ by using pigeonhole principle, then the sum of the of six positive integers should be less than $2^6=64$






                share|cite|improve this answer














                Your approach is correct.



                The largest possible sum for any subset must be $69$ since $69 = 14+ 13+ 12 + 11 + 10 + 9$.



                The smallest possible sum is $0$ since all the integers are positive but we may take the empty set. Thus there are $70$ possible sums. We create a function from the subsets to the integers from $0$ to $69$. A subset gets mapped to the sum of its elements. There are $64$ possible subsets of a six element set.



                Thus, since $64 < 70$, there doesn't exists a number which has two subsets mapped to it.



                Therefore, there doesn't exists two subsets with the same sum.



                To prove that there must be two distinct subsets of $A$ by using pigeonhole principle, then the sum of the of six positive integers should be less than $2^6=64$







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited Nov 18 at 3:06

























                answered Nov 18 at 2:41









                Key Flex

                6,68921128




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