Stuck with Euclidean space geometry exercise
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$ABCD$ is a tetrahedron. $E$ is a point on segment $AD$. $Δ$ is a line of plane $(BCD)$ parallel to $(BC)$.
Line $Δ$ intersects $(BD)$ at $I$ and $(CD)$ at $J$.
Plane $(ABC)$ intersects line $(EI)$ at $M$ and line $(EJ)$ at $N$.
Show that lines $(MN)$ and $(BC)$ are parallel.
I am 15 years old (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade) and I am stuck. We get that
$M$ is on line $(AB)$ and $N$ on line $(AC)$
$frac{DB}{DI}=frac{DC}{DJ}=frac{BC}{IJ}$ since $(BC)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (per Thales)- we'd get the desired result by showing $frac{AM}{AB}=frac{AN}{AC}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{BC}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)
- we'd get the desired result by showing that lines $(MN)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (since two lines parallel to a third one are parallel)
- we'd get the above by showing $frac{EM}{EI}=frac{EN}{EJ}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{IJ}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)
euclidean-geometry
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up vote
1
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$ABCD$ is a tetrahedron. $E$ is a point on segment $AD$. $Δ$ is a line of plane $(BCD)$ parallel to $(BC)$.
Line $Δ$ intersects $(BD)$ at $I$ and $(CD)$ at $J$.
Plane $(ABC)$ intersects line $(EI)$ at $M$ and line $(EJ)$ at $N$.
Show that lines $(MN)$ and $(BC)$ are parallel.
I am 15 years old (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade) and I am stuck. We get that
$M$ is on line $(AB)$ and $N$ on line $(AC)$
$frac{DB}{DI}=frac{DC}{DJ}=frac{BC}{IJ}$ since $(BC)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (per Thales)- we'd get the desired result by showing $frac{AM}{AB}=frac{AN}{AC}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{BC}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)
- we'd get the desired result by showing that lines $(MN)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (since two lines parallel to a third one are parallel)
- we'd get the above by showing $frac{EM}{EI}=frac{EN}{EJ}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{IJ}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)
euclidean-geometry
@Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 17:49
I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 17:57
I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 18:30
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
$ABCD$ is a tetrahedron. $E$ is a point on segment $AD$. $Δ$ is a line of plane $(BCD)$ parallel to $(BC)$.
Line $Δ$ intersects $(BD)$ at $I$ and $(CD)$ at $J$.
Plane $(ABC)$ intersects line $(EI)$ at $M$ and line $(EJ)$ at $N$.
Show that lines $(MN)$ and $(BC)$ are parallel.
I am 15 years old (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade) and I am stuck. We get that
$M$ is on line $(AB)$ and $N$ on line $(AC)$
$frac{DB}{DI}=frac{DC}{DJ}=frac{BC}{IJ}$ since $(BC)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (per Thales)- we'd get the desired result by showing $frac{AM}{AB}=frac{AN}{AC}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{BC}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)
- we'd get the desired result by showing that lines $(MN)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (since two lines parallel to a third one are parallel)
- we'd get the above by showing $frac{EM}{EI}=frac{EN}{EJ}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{IJ}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)
euclidean-geometry
$ABCD$ is a tetrahedron. $E$ is a point on segment $AD$. $Δ$ is a line of plane $(BCD)$ parallel to $(BC)$.
Line $Δ$ intersects $(BD)$ at $I$ and $(CD)$ at $J$.
Plane $(ABC)$ intersects line $(EI)$ at $M$ and line $(EJ)$ at $N$.
Show that lines $(MN)$ and $(BC)$ are parallel.
I am 15 years old (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade) and I am stuck. We get that
$M$ is on line $(AB)$ and $N$ on line $(AC)$
$frac{DB}{DI}=frac{DC}{DJ}=frac{BC}{IJ}$ since $(BC)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (per Thales)- we'd get the desired result by showing $frac{AM}{AB}=frac{AN}{AC}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{BC}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)
- we'd get the desired result by showing that lines $(MN)$ and $(IJ)$ are parallel (since two lines parallel to a third one are parallel)
- we'd get the above by showing $frac{EM}{EI}=frac{EN}{EJ}$ or either term is $frac{MN}{IJ}$ (using reciprocal of Thales)
euclidean-geometry
euclidean-geometry
edited Nov 18 at 17:45
Jean Marie
28.2k41848
28.2k41848
asked Nov 18 at 13:40
fgrieu
541319
541319
@Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 17:49
I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 17:57
I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 18:30
add a comment |
@Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 17:49
I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 17:57
I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 18:30
@Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 17:49
@Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 17:49
I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 17:57
I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 17:57
I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 18:30
I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 18:30
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.
Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.
Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal
That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 14:48
The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
– Sorin Tirc
Nov 18 at 15:48
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.
Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.
Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal
That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 14:48
The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
– Sorin Tirc
Nov 18 at 15:48
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.
Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.
Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal
That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 14:48
The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
– Sorin Tirc
Nov 18 at 15:48
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.
Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.
Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal
You are right in using the recipeocal of Thales. To continue the proof, you need to invoke another Greek guy’s result.
Consider $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$.
We’d like to show that the two are equal. Where could we get these values from? Well, N is the intersection of a line with another line in a triangle so Menelaus’ Theorem is your friend here.
Applying Menelaus in triangle ABD with the line E-M-I we obtain that $frac{AM}{MB}frac{EA}{AD}frac{IB}{BD} = 1$ and we obtain a value for $frac{AM}{MB}$ and similarly for $frac{AN}{NC}$ applying Menelaus in triangle ACD with the line E-N-J you get that $frac{AN}{NC}frac{EA}{AD}frac{JC}{CD} = 1$. Since $frac{JC}{CD} =frac{IB}{BD}$ you have all the ingredients to show that $frac{AM}{MB}$ and $frac{AN}{NC}$ are equal
edited Nov 18 at 20:48
fgrieu
541319
541319
answered Nov 18 at 14:07
Sorin Tirc
66210
66210
That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 14:48
The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
– Sorin Tirc
Nov 18 at 15:48
add a comment |
That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 14:48
The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
– Sorin Tirc
Nov 18 at 15:48
That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 14:48
That's helpful. It would be perfectly fine if Menelaus’ Theorem was part of the teaching to a 15yo (classe de seconde in France ≈ 10th grade). It's not, and we'll have to adjust that reasoning to use Thales; it does seems within reach.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 14:48
The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
– Sorin Tirc
Nov 18 at 15:48
The proof of Menelaus does involve “just” Thales but also some cleverly constructed parallels so I am not quite sure whether such a solution, proving Menelaus, would be “easier” in any way, than just learning Menelaus...
– Sorin Tirc
Nov 18 at 15:48
add a comment |
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@Jean Marie: thanks for the fixes and simplification. I'm really the father ! See here if in doubt.
– fgrieu
Nov 18 at 17:49
I understand. I have been in the same situation some years ago with my son...
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 17:57
I have no solution, but maybe one could turn this 3D question into a seemingly equivalent 2D issue by proving the fact that the projected line segment B'C' onto the base plane BCD is parallel to IJ ?
– Jean Marie
Nov 18 at 18:30