Prove that the product of a rational and irrational number is irrational
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Could you please confirm if this proof is correct?
Theorem: If $q neq 0$ is rational and $y$ is irrational, then $qy$ is irrational.
Proof: Proof by contradiction, we assume that $qy$ is rational. Therefore $qy=frac{a}{b}$ for integers $a$, $b neq 0$. Since $q$ is rational, we have $frac{x}{z}y=frac{a}{b}$ for integers $x neq 0$, $z neq 0$. Therefore, $xy = a$, and $y=frac{a}{x}$. Since both $a$ and $x$ are integers, $y$ is rational, leading to a contradiction.
analysis irrational-numbers
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show 1 more comment
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Could you please confirm if this proof is correct?
Theorem: If $q neq 0$ is rational and $y$ is irrational, then $qy$ is irrational.
Proof: Proof by contradiction, we assume that $qy$ is rational. Therefore $qy=frac{a}{b}$ for integers $a$, $b neq 0$. Since $q$ is rational, we have $frac{x}{z}y=frac{a}{b}$ for integers $x neq 0$, $z neq 0$. Therefore, $xy = a$, and $y=frac{a}{x}$. Since both $a$ and $x$ are integers, $y$ is rational, leading to a contradiction.
analysis irrational-numbers
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1
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Looks good but what happened to the $z$ and $b$ in the line $xy = a$?
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– Eric O. Korman
Jun 13 '11 at 12:59
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It's surely not quite correct. For example, you missed factors of $1/z$ and $1/b$ in evaluating or "simplifying" $xy/z=a/b$. Otherwise the logic is OK.
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– Luboš Motl
Jun 13 '11 at 13:01
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You just get the relation $y=frac{za}{xb}$ which is a ratio of integers and therefore rational.
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– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:17
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@Eric: Hm, I assumed that if $frac{a}{b}=frac{c}{d}$ then $a=c$. Which is not true...
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– persepolis
Jun 13 '11 at 13:24
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Minor point: this is not a proof by contradiction, you prove that qy is irrational by proving that it is not rational, this is just the definition of being irrational.
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– Guillaume Brunerie
Oct 28 '11 at 16:11
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Could you please confirm if this proof is correct?
Theorem: If $q neq 0$ is rational and $y$ is irrational, then $qy$ is irrational.
Proof: Proof by contradiction, we assume that $qy$ is rational. Therefore $qy=frac{a}{b}$ for integers $a$, $b neq 0$. Since $q$ is rational, we have $frac{x}{z}y=frac{a}{b}$ for integers $x neq 0$, $z neq 0$. Therefore, $xy = a$, and $y=frac{a}{x}$. Since both $a$ and $x$ are integers, $y$ is rational, leading to a contradiction.
analysis irrational-numbers
$endgroup$
Could you please confirm if this proof is correct?
Theorem: If $q neq 0$ is rational and $y$ is irrational, then $qy$ is irrational.
Proof: Proof by contradiction, we assume that $qy$ is rational. Therefore $qy=frac{a}{b}$ for integers $a$, $b neq 0$. Since $q$ is rational, we have $frac{x}{z}y=frac{a}{b}$ for integers $x neq 0$, $z neq 0$. Therefore, $xy = a$, and $y=frac{a}{x}$. Since both $a$ and $x$ are integers, $y$ is rational, leading to a contradiction.
analysis irrational-numbers
analysis irrational-numbers
edited Jun 14 '11 at 14:56
user9413
asked Jun 13 '11 at 12:56
persepolispersepolis
183126
183126
1
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Looks good but what happened to the $z$ and $b$ in the line $xy = a$?
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– Eric O. Korman
Jun 13 '11 at 12:59
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It's surely not quite correct. For example, you missed factors of $1/z$ and $1/b$ in evaluating or "simplifying" $xy/z=a/b$. Otherwise the logic is OK.
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– Luboš Motl
Jun 13 '11 at 13:01
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You just get the relation $y=frac{za}{xb}$ which is a ratio of integers and therefore rational.
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– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:17
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@Eric: Hm, I assumed that if $frac{a}{b}=frac{c}{d}$ then $a=c$. Which is not true...
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– persepolis
Jun 13 '11 at 13:24
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Minor point: this is not a proof by contradiction, you prove that qy is irrational by proving that it is not rational, this is just the definition of being irrational.
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– Guillaume Brunerie
Oct 28 '11 at 16:11
|
show 1 more comment
1
$begingroup$
Looks good but what happened to the $z$ and $b$ in the line $xy = a$?
$endgroup$
– Eric O. Korman
Jun 13 '11 at 12:59
$begingroup$
It's surely not quite correct. For example, you missed factors of $1/z$ and $1/b$ in evaluating or "simplifying" $xy/z=a/b$. Otherwise the logic is OK.
$endgroup$
– Luboš Motl
Jun 13 '11 at 13:01
$begingroup$
You just get the relation $y=frac{za}{xb}$ which is a ratio of integers and therefore rational.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:17
$begingroup$
@Eric: Hm, I assumed that if $frac{a}{b}=frac{c}{d}$ then $a=c$. Which is not true...
$endgroup$
– persepolis
Jun 13 '11 at 13:24
$begingroup$
Minor point: this is not a proof by contradiction, you prove that qy is irrational by proving that it is not rational, this is just the definition of being irrational.
$endgroup$
– Guillaume Brunerie
Oct 28 '11 at 16:11
1
1
$begingroup$
Looks good but what happened to the $z$ and $b$ in the line $xy = a$?
$endgroup$
– Eric O. Korman
Jun 13 '11 at 12:59
$begingroup$
Looks good but what happened to the $z$ and $b$ in the line $xy = a$?
$endgroup$
– Eric O. Korman
Jun 13 '11 at 12:59
$begingroup$
It's surely not quite correct. For example, you missed factors of $1/z$ and $1/b$ in evaluating or "simplifying" $xy/z=a/b$. Otherwise the logic is OK.
$endgroup$
– Luboš Motl
Jun 13 '11 at 13:01
$begingroup$
It's surely not quite correct. For example, you missed factors of $1/z$ and $1/b$ in evaluating or "simplifying" $xy/z=a/b$. Otherwise the logic is OK.
$endgroup$
– Luboš Motl
Jun 13 '11 at 13:01
$begingroup$
You just get the relation $y=frac{za}{xb}$ which is a ratio of integers and therefore rational.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:17
$begingroup$
You just get the relation $y=frac{za}{xb}$ which is a ratio of integers and therefore rational.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:17
$begingroup$
@Eric: Hm, I assumed that if $frac{a}{b}=frac{c}{d}$ then $a=c$. Which is not true...
$endgroup$
– persepolis
Jun 13 '11 at 13:24
$begingroup$
@Eric: Hm, I assumed that if $frac{a}{b}=frac{c}{d}$ then $a=c$. Which is not true...
$endgroup$
– persepolis
Jun 13 '11 at 13:24
$begingroup$
Minor point: this is not a proof by contradiction, you prove that qy is irrational by proving that it is not rational, this is just the definition of being irrational.
$endgroup$
– Guillaume Brunerie
Oct 28 '11 at 16:11
$begingroup$
Minor point: this is not a proof by contradiction, you prove that qy is irrational by proving that it is not rational, this is just the definition of being irrational.
$endgroup$
– Guillaume Brunerie
Oct 28 '11 at 16:11
|
show 1 more comment
8 Answers
8
active
oldest
votes
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It's wrong. You wrote $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$. That is correct. Then you said "Therefore $xy = a$. That is wrong.
You need to solve $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$ for $y$. You get $y = frac{a}{b} cdot frac{z}{x}$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As I mention here frequently, this ubiquitous property is simply an instance of complementary view of the subgroup property, i.e.
THEOREM $ $ A nonempty subset $rm:S:$ of abelian group $rm:G:$
comprises a subgroup $rmiff S + bar S = bar S $ where $rm: bar S:$ is the complement of $rm:S:$ in $rm:G$
Instances of this are ubiquitous in concrete number systems, e.g.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can directly divide by $q$ assuming the fact that $q neq 0$.
Suppose $qy$ is rational then, you have $qy = frac{m}{n}$ for some $n neq 0$. This says that $y = frac{m}{nq}$ which says that $text{y is rational}$ contradiction.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
A group theoretic proof: You know that if $G$ is a group and $Hneq G$ is one of its subgroups then $h in H$ and $y in Gsetminus H$ implies that $hy in Gsetminus H$. Proof: suppose $hy in H$. You know that $h^{-1} in H$, and therefore $y=h^{-1}(hy) in H$. Contradiction.
In our case, we have the group $(Bbb{R}^*,cdot)$ and its proper subgroup $(Bbb{Q}^*,cdot)$. By the arguments above $q in Bbb{Q}^*$ and $y in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$ implies $qy in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Shouldn't it be $mathbb{R}^{ast} setminusmathbb{Q}^{*}$
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– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 13:29
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yes, but you can see that $Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}=Bbb{R}^*setminus Bbb{Q}^*$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:59
$begingroup$
You are right, great answer :)
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 14:02
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's see how we can modify your argument to make it perfect.
First of all, a minor picky point. You wrote
$$qy=frac{a}{b} qquadtext{where $a$ and $b$ are integers, with $b ne 0$}$$
So far, fine.
Then come your $x$ and $z$. For completeness, you should have said "Let $x$, $z$ be integers such that $q=frac{x}{z}$. Note that neither $x$ nor $z$ is $0$." Basically, you did not say what connection $x/z$ had with $q$, though admittedly any reasonable person would know what you meant. By the way, I probably would have chosen the letters $c$ and $d$ instead of $x$ and $z$.
Now for the non-picky point. You reached
$$frac{x}{z}y=frac{a}{b}$$
From that you should have concluded directly that
$$y=frac{za}{xb}$$
which ends things, since $za$ and $xb$ are integers.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't think it correct. It seems like a good idea to indicate both x as an integer, and z as a non-zero integer. Then you also want to "solve for" y, which as Eric points out, you didn't quite do.
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add a comment |
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$$ainmathbb{Q},binmathbb{R}setminusmathbb{Q},abinmathbb{Q}implies binmathbb{Q}impliestext{Contradiction}therefore abnotinmathbb{Q}.$$
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add a comment |
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a is irrational, whereas b is rational.(both > 0)
Q: does the multiplication of a and b result in a rational or irrational number?:
Proof:
because b is rational:
b = u/j where u and j are integers
Assume ab is rational:
ab = k/n, where k and n are integers.
a = k/bn
a = k/(n(u/j))
a = jk/un
before we declared a as irrational, but now it is rational; a contradiction. Therefore ab must be irrational.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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8 Answers
8
active
oldest
votes
8 Answers
8
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It's wrong. You wrote $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$. That is correct. Then you said "Therefore $xy = a$. That is wrong.
You need to solve $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$ for $y$. You get $y = frac{a}{b} cdot frac{z}{x}$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's wrong. You wrote $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$. That is correct. Then you said "Therefore $xy = a$. That is wrong.
You need to solve $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$ for $y$. You get $y = frac{a}{b} cdot frac{z}{x}$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's wrong. You wrote $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$. That is correct. Then you said "Therefore $xy = a$. That is wrong.
You need to solve $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$ for $y$. You get $y = frac{a}{b} cdot frac{z}{x}$.
$endgroup$
It's wrong. You wrote $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$. That is correct. Then you said "Therefore $xy = a$. That is wrong.
You need to solve $frac{x}{z}y = frac{a}{b}$ for $y$. You get $y = frac{a}{b} cdot frac{z}{x}$.
answered Jun 13 '11 at 14:47
Michael HardyMichael Hardy
1
1
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As I mention here frequently, this ubiquitous property is simply an instance of complementary view of the subgroup property, i.e.
THEOREM $ $ A nonempty subset $rm:S:$ of abelian group $rm:G:$
comprises a subgroup $rmiff S + bar S = bar S $ where $rm: bar S:$ is the complement of $rm:S:$ in $rm:G$
Instances of this are ubiquitous in concrete number systems, e.g.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As I mention here frequently, this ubiquitous property is simply an instance of complementary view of the subgroup property, i.e.
THEOREM $ $ A nonempty subset $rm:S:$ of abelian group $rm:G:$
comprises a subgroup $rmiff S + bar S = bar S $ where $rm: bar S:$ is the complement of $rm:S:$ in $rm:G$
Instances of this are ubiquitous in concrete number systems, e.g.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As I mention here frequently, this ubiquitous property is simply an instance of complementary view of the subgroup property, i.e.
THEOREM $ $ A nonempty subset $rm:S:$ of abelian group $rm:G:$
comprises a subgroup $rmiff S + bar S = bar S $ where $rm: bar S:$ is the complement of $rm:S:$ in $rm:G$
Instances of this are ubiquitous in concrete number systems, e.g.
$endgroup$
As I mention here frequently, this ubiquitous property is simply an instance of complementary view of the subgroup property, i.e.
THEOREM $ $ A nonempty subset $rm:S:$ of abelian group $rm:G:$
comprises a subgroup $rmiff S + bar S = bar S $ where $rm: bar S:$ is the complement of $rm:S:$ in $rm:G$
Instances of this are ubiquitous in concrete number systems, e.g.
edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:21
Community♦
1
1
answered Jun 13 '11 at 18:28
Bill DubuqueBill Dubuque
210k29192640
210k29192640
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can directly divide by $q$ assuming the fact that $q neq 0$.
Suppose $qy$ is rational then, you have $qy = frac{m}{n}$ for some $n neq 0$. This says that $y = frac{m}{nq}$ which says that $text{y is rational}$ contradiction.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can directly divide by $q$ assuming the fact that $q neq 0$.
Suppose $qy$ is rational then, you have $qy = frac{m}{n}$ for some $n neq 0$. This says that $y = frac{m}{nq}$ which says that $text{y is rational}$ contradiction.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can directly divide by $q$ assuming the fact that $q neq 0$.
Suppose $qy$ is rational then, you have $qy = frac{m}{n}$ for some $n neq 0$. This says that $y = frac{m}{nq}$ which says that $text{y is rational}$ contradiction.
$endgroup$
You can directly divide by $q$ assuming the fact that $q neq 0$.
Suppose $qy$ is rational then, you have $qy = frac{m}{n}$ for some $n neq 0$. This says that $y = frac{m}{nq}$ which says that $text{y is rational}$ contradiction.
answered Jun 13 '11 at 13:06
user9413
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A group theoretic proof: You know that if $G$ is a group and $Hneq G$ is one of its subgroups then $h in H$ and $y in Gsetminus H$ implies that $hy in Gsetminus H$. Proof: suppose $hy in H$. You know that $h^{-1} in H$, and therefore $y=h^{-1}(hy) in H$. Contradiction.
In our case, we have the group $(Bbb{R}^*,cdot)$ and its proper subgroup $(Bbb{Q}^*,cdot)$. By the arguments above $q in Bbb{Q}^*$ and $y in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$ implies $qy in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Shouldn't it be $mathbb{R}^{ast} setminusmathbb{Q}^{*}$
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 13:29
$begingroup$
yes, but you can see that $Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}=Bbb{R}^*setminus Bbb{Q}^*$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:59
$begingroup$
You are right, great answer :)
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 14:02
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A group theoretic proof: You know that if $G$ is a group and $Hneq G$ is one of its subgroups then $h in H$ and $y in Gsetminus H$ implies that $hy in Gsetminus H$. Proof: suppose $hy in H$. You know that $h^{-1} in H$, and therefore $y=h^{-1}(hy) in H$. Contradiction.
In our case, we have the group $(Bbb{R}^*,cdot)$ and its proper subgroup $(Bbb{Q}^*,cdot)$. By the arguments above $q in Bbb{Q}^*$ and $y in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$ implies $qy in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Shouldn't it be $mathbb{R}^{ast} setminusmathbb{Q}^{*}$
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 13:29
$begingroup$
yes, but you can see that $Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}=Bbb{R}^*setminus Bbb{Q}^*$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:59
$begingroup$
You are right, great answer :)
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 14:02
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A group theoretic proof: You know that if $G$ is a group and $Hneq G$ is one of its subgroups then $h in H$ and $y in Gsetminus H$ implies that $hy in Gsetminus H$. Proof: suppose $hy in H$. You know that $h^{-1} in H$, and therefore $y=h^{-1}(hy) in H$. Contradiction.
In our case, we have the group $(Bbb{R}^*,cdot)$ and its proper subgroup $(Bbb{Q}^*,cdot)$. By the arguments above $q in Bbb{Q}^*$ and $y in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$ implies $qy in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
A group theoretic proof: You know that if $G$ is a group and $Hneq G$ is one of its subgroups then $h in H$ and $y in Gsetminus H$ implies that $hy in Gsetminus H$. Proof: suppose $hy in H$. You know that $h^{-1} in H$, and therefore $y=h^{-1}(hy) in H$. Contradiction.
In our case, we have the group $(Bbb{R}^*,cdot)$ and its proper subgroup $(Bbb{Q}^*,cdot)$. By the arguments above $q in Bbb{Q}^*$ and $y in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$ implies $qy in Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}$.
answered Jun 13 '11 at 13:13
Beni BogoselBeni Bogosel
17.5k346111
17.5k346111
$begingroup$
Shouldn't it be $mathbb{R}^{ast} setminusmathbb{Q}^{*}$
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 13:29
$begingroup$
yes, but you can see that $Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}=Bbb{R}^*setminus Bbb{Q}^*$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:59
$begingroup$
You are right, great answer :)
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 14:02
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Shouldn't it be $mathbb{R}^{ast} setminusmathbb{Q}^{*}$
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 13:29
$begingroup$
yes, but you can see that $Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}=Bbb{R}^*setminus Bbb{Q}^*$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:59
$begingroup$
You are right, great answer :)
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 14:02
$begingroup$
Shouldn't it be $mathbb{R}^{ast} setminusmathbb{Q}^{*}$
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 13:29
$begingroup$
Shouldn't it be $mathbb{R}^{ast} setminusmathbb{Q}^{*}$
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 13:29
$begingroup$
yes, but you can see that $Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}=Bbb{R}^*setminus Bbb{Q}^*$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:59
$begingroup$
yes, but you can see that $Bbb{R}setminus Bbb{Q}=Bbb{R}^*setminus Bbb{Q}^*$.
$endgroup$
– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:59
$begingroup$
You are right, great answer :)
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 14:02
$begingroup$
You are right, great answer :)
$endgroup$
– user9413
Jun 13 '11 at 14:02
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's see how we can modify your argument to make it perfect.
First of all, a minor picky point. You wrote
$$qy=frac{a}{b} qquadtext{where $a$ and $b$ are integers, with $b ne 0$}$$
So far, fine.
Then come your $x$ and $z$. For completeness, you should have said "Let $x$, $z$ be integers such that $q=frac{x}{z}$. Note that neither $x$ nor $z$ is $0$." Basically, you did not say what connection $x/z$ had with $q$, though admittedly any reasonable person would know what you meant. By the way, I probably would have chosen the letters $c$ and $d$ instead of $x$ and $z$.
Now for the non-picky point. You reached
$$frac{x}{z}y=frac{a}{b}$$
From that you should have concluded directly that
$$y=frac{za}{xb}$$
which ends things, since $za$ and $xb$ are integers.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's see how we can modify your argument to make it perfect.
First of all, a minor picky point. You wrote
$$qy=frac{a}{b} qquadtext{where $a$ and $b$ are integers, with $b ne 0$}$$
So far, fine.
Then come your $x$ and $z$. For completeness, you should have said "Let $x$, $z$ be integers such that $q=frac{x}{z}$. Note that neither $x$ nor $z$ is $0$." Basically, you did not say what connection $x/z$ had with $q$, though admittedly any reasonable person would know what you meant. By the way, I probably would have chosen the letters $c$ and $d$ instead of $x$ and $z$.
Now for the non-picky point. You reached
$$frac{x}{z}y=frac{a}{b}$$
From that you should have concluded directly that
$$y=frac{za}{xb}$$
which ends things, since $za$ and $xb$ are integers.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's see how we can modify your argument to make it perfect.
First of all, a minor picky point. You wrote
$$qy=frac{a}{b} qquadtext{where $a$ and $b$ are integers, with $b ne 0$}$$
So far, fine.
Then come your $x$ and $z$. For completeness, you should have said "Let $x$, $z$ be integers such that $q=frac{x}{z}$. Note that neither $x$ nor $z$ is $0$." Basically, you did not say what connection $x/z$ had with $q$, though admittedly any reasonable person would know what you meant. By the way, I probably would have chosen the letters $c$ and $d$ instead of $x$ and $z$.
Now for the non-picky point. You reached
$$frac{x}{z}y=frac{a}{b}$$
From that you should have concluded directly that
$$y=frac{za}{xb}$$
which ends things, since $za$ and $xb$ are integers.
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Let's see how we can modify your argument to make it perfect.
First of all, a minor picky point. You wrote
$$qy=frac{a}{b} qquadtext{where $a$ and $b$ are integers, with $b ne 0$}$$
So far, fine.
Then come your $x$ and $z$. For completeness, you should have said "Let $x$, $z$ be integers such that $q=frac{x}{z}$. Note that neither $x$ nor $z$ is $0$." Basically, you did not say what connection $x/z$ had with $q$, though admittedly any reasonable person would know what you meant. By the way, I probably would have chosen the letters $c$ and $d$ instead of $x$ and $z$.
Now for the non-picky point. You reached
$$frac{x}{z}y=frac{a}{b}$$
From that you should have concluded directly that
$$y=frac{za}{xb}$$
which ends things, since $za$ and $xb$ are integers.
answered Jun 13 '11 at 14:38
André NicolasAndré Nicolas
452k36425810
452k36425810
add a comment |
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I don't think it correct. It seems like a good idea to indicate both x as an integer, and z as a non-zero integer. Then you also want to "solve for" y, which as Eric points out, you didn't quite do.
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add a comment |
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I don't think it correct. It seems like a good idea to indicate both x as an integer, and z as a non-zero integer. Then you also want to "solve for" y, which as Eric points out, you didn't quite do.
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add a comment |
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I don't think it correct. It seems like a good idea to indicate both x as an integer, and z as a non-zero integer. Then you also want to "solve for" y, which as Eric points out, you didn't quite do.
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I don't think it correct. It seems like a good idea to indicate both x as an integer, and z as a non-zero integer. Then you also want to "solve for" y, which as Eric points out, you didn't quite do.
answered Jun 13 '11 at 13:08
Doug SpoonwoodDoug Spoonwood
8,00212144
8,00212144
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$$ainmathbb{Q},binmathbb{R}setminusmathbb{Q},abinmathbb{Q}implies binmathbb{Q}impliestext{Contradiction}therefore abnotinmathbb{Q}.$$
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add a comment |
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$$ainmathbb{Q},binmathbb{R}setminusmathbb{Q},abinmathbb{Q}implies binmathbb{Q}impliestext{Contradiction}therefore abnotinmathbb{Q}.$$
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
$$ainmathbb{Q},binmathbb{R}setminusmathbb{Q},abinmathbb{Q}implies binmathbb{Q}impliestext{Contradiction}therefore abnotinmathbb{Q}.$$
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$$ainmathbb{Q},binmathbb{R}setminusmathbb{Q},abinmathbb{Q}implies binmathbb{Q}impliestext{Contradiction}therefore abnotinmathbb{Q}.$$
answered Dec 9 '18 at 16:34
AntinousAntinous
5,72542451
5,72542451
add a comment |
add a comment |
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a is irrational, whereas b is rational.(both > 0)
Q: does the multiplication of a and b result in a rational or irrational number?:
Proof:
because b is rational:
b = u/j where u and j are integers
Assume ab is rational:
ab = k/n, where k and n are integers.
a = k/bn
a = k/(n(u/j))
a = jk/un
before we declared a as irrational, but now it is rational; a contradiction. Therefore ab must be irrational.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
a is irrational, whereas b is rational.(both > 0)
Q: does the multiplication of a and b result in a rational or irrational number?:
Proof:
because b is rational:
b = u/j where u and j are integers
Assume ab is rational:
ab = k/n, where k and n are integers.
a = k/bn
a = k/(n(u/j))
a = jk/un
before we declared a as irrational, but now it is rational; a contradiction. Therefore ab must be irrational.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
a is irrational, whereas b is rational.(both > 0)
Q: does the multiplication of a and b result in a rational or irrational number?:
Proof:
because b is rational:
b = u/j where u and j are integers
Assume ab is rational:
ab = k/n, where k and n are integers.
a = k/bn
a = k/(n(u/j))
a = jk/un
before we declared a as irrational, but now it is rational; a contradiction. Therefore ab must be irrational.
$endgroup$
a is irrational, whereas b is rational.(both > 0)
Q: does the multiplication of a and b result in a rational or irrational number?:
Proof:
because b is rational:
b = u/j where u and j are integers
Assume ab is rational:
ab = k/n, where k and n are integers.
a = k/bn
a = k/(n(u/j))
a = jk/un
before we declared a as irrational, but now it is rational; a contradiction. Therefore ab must be irrational.
answered Sep 16 '15 at 17:33
Brendan HardyBrendan Hardy
1
1
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Looks good but what happened to the $z$ and $b$ in the line $xy = a$?
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– Eric O. Korman
Jun 13 '11 at 12:59
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It's surely not quite correct. For example, you missed factors of $1/z$ and $1/b$ in evaluating or "simplifying" $xy/z=a/b$. Otherwise the logic is OK.
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– Luboš Motl
Jun 13 '11 at 13:01
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You just get the relation $y=frac{za}{xb}$ which is a ratio of integers and therefore rational.
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– Beni Bogosel
Jun 13 '11 at 13:17
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@Eric: Hm, I assumed that if $frac{a}{b}=frac{c}{d}$ then $a=c$. Which is not true...
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– persepolis
Jun 13 '11 at 13:24
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Minor point: this is not a proof by contradiction, you prove that qy is irrational by proving that it is not rational, this is just the definition of being irrational.
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– Guillaume Brunerie
Oct 28 '11 at 16:11