Calculating a 20% discount by multiplying by 0.8333?











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I've been looking at some discounted prices of goods.



They are listed with a $20%$ discount, so to work this out I did:



$$ $25.45 cdot 0.8333 = $21.21. $$



But their total was $20.34$, which I presume they got by doing $25.42 cdot 0.8$.



To apply a $20%$ discount or to subtract $20%$, which of the above is correct?










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  • 2




    $25.42times (1 - 20/100)$
    – Éric Guirbal
    Jun 2 '17 at 15:58






  • 37




    why multiply by $5/6$?
    – Dando18
    Jun 2 '17 at 16:00






  • 11




    You tell us neither where the $25.45$ comes from, nor the $0.8333$.
    – Carsten S
    Jun 2 '17 at 17:39






  • 25




    @CarstenS It's blatantly obvious that the 25.45 is the original price of the goods...
    – The Great Duck
    Jun 2 '17 at 20:24






  • 11




    Care to check your figures. You quote 25.45 then 25.42. Can't both be accurate.
    – Tim
    Jun 3 '17 at 14:16















up vote
7
down vote

favorite
2












I've been looking at some discounted prices of goods.



They are listed with a $20%$ discount, so to work this out I did:



$$ $25.45 cdot 0.8333 = $21.21. $$



But their total was $20.34$, which I presume they got by doing $25.42 cdot 0.8$.



To apply a $20%$ discount or to subtract $20%$, which of the above is correct?










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 2




    $25.42times (1 - 20/100)$
    – Éric Guirbal
    Jun 2 '17 at 15:58






  • 37




    why multiply by $5/6$?
    – Dando18
    Jun 2 '17 at 16:00






  • 11




    You tell us neither where the $25.45$ comes from, nor the $0.8333$.
    – Carsten S
    Jun 2 '17 at 17:39






  • 25




    @CarstenS It's blatantly obvious that the 25.45 is the original price of the goods...
    – The Great Duck
    Jun 2 '17 at 20:24






  • 11




    Care to check your figures. You quote 25.45 then 25.42. Can't both be accurate.
    – Tim
    Jun 3 '17 at 14:16













up vote
7
down vote

favorite
2









up vote
7
down vote

favorite
2






2





I've been looking at some discounted prices of goods.



They are listed with a $20%$ discount, so to work this out I did:



$$ $25.45 cdot 0.8333 = $21.21. $$



But their total was $20.34$, which I presume they got by doing $25.42 cdot 0.8$.



To apply a $20%$ discount or to subtract $20%$, which of the above is correct?










share|cite|improve this question















I've been looking at some discounted prices of goods.



They are listed with a $20%$ discount, so to work this out I did:



$$ $25.45 cdot 0.8333 = $21.21. $$



But their total was $20.34$, which I presume they got by doing $25.42 cdot 0.8$.



To apply a $20%$ discount or to subtract $20%$, which of the above is correct?







percentages






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edited Jun 2 '17 at 19:04









Chappers

55.6k74192




55.6k74192










asked Jun 2 '17 at 15:55









sam

156115




156115








  • 2




    $25.42times (1 - 20/100)$
    – Éric Guirbal
    Jun 2 '17 at 15:58






  • 37




    why multiply by $5/6$?
    – Dando18
    Jun 2 '17 at 16:00






  • 11




    You tell us neither where the $25.45$ comes from, nor the $0.8333$.
    – Carsten S
    Jun 2 '17 at 17:39






  • 25




    @CarstenS It's blatantly obvious that the 25.45 is the original price of the goods...
    – The Great Duck
    Jun 2 '17 at 20:24






  • 11




    Care to check your figures. You quote 25.45 then 25.42. Can't both be accurate.
    – Tim
    Jun 3 '17 at 14:16














  • 2




    $25.42times (1 - 20/100)$
    – Éric Guirbal
    Jun 2 '17 at 15:58






  • 37




    why multiply by $5/6$?
    – Dando18
    Jun 2 '17 at 16:00






  • 11




    You tell us neither where the $25.45$ comes from, nor the $0.8333$.
    – Carsten S
    Jun 2 '17 at 17:39






  • 25




    @CarstenS It's blatantly obvious that the 25.45 is the original price of the goods...
    – The Great Duck
    Jun 2 '17 at 20:24






  • 11




    Care to check your figures. You quote 25.45 then 25.42. Can't both be accurate.
    – Tim
    Jun 3 '17 at 14:16








2




2




$25.42times (1 - 20/100)$
– Éric Guirbal
Jun 2 '17 at 15:58




$25.42times (1 - 20/100)$
– Éric Guirbal
Jun 2 '17 at 15:58




37




37




why multiply by $5/6$?
– Dando18
Jun 2 '17 at 16:00




why multiply by $5/6$?
– Dando18
Jun 2 '17 at 16:00




11




11




You tell us neither where the $25.45$ comes from, nor the $0.8333$.
– Carsten S
Jun 2 '17 at 17:39




You tell us neither where the $25.45$ comes from, nor the $0.8333$.
– Carsten S
Jun 2 '17 at 17:39




25




25




@CarstenS It's blatantly obvious that the 25.45 is the original price of the goods...
– The Great Duck
Jun 2 '17 at 20:24




@CarstenS It's blatantly obvious that the 25.45 is the original price of the goods...
– The Great Duck
Jun 2 '17 at 20:24




11




11




Care to check your figures. You quote 25.45 then 25.42. Can't both be accurate.
– Tim
Jun 3 '17 at 14:16




Care to check your figures. You quote 25.45 then 25.42. Can't both be accurate.
– Tim
Jun 3 '17 at 14:16










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

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up vote
73
down vote



accepted










A $20%$ discount means that the price is $80%$ of what it was originally, so you multiply by $1-0.2=0.8$.



$0.8dot{3}$ is $1/1.2$, which is used to find out the original price when you have been given $120%$ of it (if there's $20%$ tax included in it, for example)






share|cite|improve this answer

















  • 4




    So $1-r$ is not the same as $frac{1}{1+r}$. This is related to the fact that $(1-r)(1+r)$ is not one exactly (physicists would say it is $1$ only to the first order in $r$). Another well-known way of thinking of it is if you first remove $frac{r}{100}$ percent, then add $frac{r}{100}$ percent of the resulting amount, then you're not back where you started.
    – Jeppe Stig Nielsen
    Jun 4 '17 at 7:17


















up vote
17
down vote













Note that multiplying by $0.83bar3$ is really dividing by $1.2$. In order to know which one is right, you need to keep in mind which number represents $100%$, or the origin. Calculating percentages from the origin is done by multiplying, while recovering the origin from some given percentage is done by dividing.



So finding $80%$ of a price is done by multiplying with $0.8$. If you have the $80%$ price and want to find the original price, you divide by $0.8$ (which becomes multiplying by $1.25$).



So multiplying with $0.83bar3$, when we're talking about $20%$ and not $16.6bar6%$, is, as mentioned above, really dividing by $1.2$. That means that what we find is the original price when we're given the new price after a $20%$ price increase. That's not the same as finding $80%$.






share|cite|improve this answer






























    up vote
    14
    down vote













    An $x %$ discount normally means you subtract $x %$ of the original price.






    share|cite|improve this answer

















    • 2




      This does not at all answer the question that was asked.
      – The Great Duck
      Jun 2 '17 at 20:25








    • 28




      @TheGreatDuck I disagree.
      – Dan Henderson
      Jun 2 '17 at 22:46






    • 3




      @TheGreatDuck What don't you understand about my answer?
      – Robert Israel
      Jun 3 '17 at 2:13






    • 4




      @TheGreatDuck Not an ounce of multiplication is even mentioned here Well, "x% of the original price" counts as a multiplication in my books. You take the "original price", then multiply it by "x%" which is in this case "a 20% discount" according to the OP, meaning you multiply by $20% = 0.2,$. Once you subtract that from the original price $,x,$, what's left to pay is $,x - 0.2 x = 0.8 x,$. Not sure what your problem was with this answer.
      – dxiv
      Jun 3 '17 at 6:20








    • 2




      @TheGreatDuck I would expect the OP to very easily connect the x% discount from this answer to a 20% discount from the posted question, as to reckon that $x=20,$.
      – dxiv
      Jun 3 '17 at 6:26


















    up vote
    9
    down vote













    A $20%$ increase in price can be computed by dividing by $0.83333ldots$ (with $3$ repeating), but that does not mean a $20%$ decrease results from multiplying by that number. The reason is that in the latter problem we're dealing with $20%$ of a different quantity. A $20%$ decrease is computed by multiplying by $1-0.2 = 0.8.$



    For example, if you cut a $$100$ price by $50%$ and then increase it by $50%,$ you don't get back $$100,$ but rather $$75.$



    (Multiplying by $1.2$ is simpler than dividing by $0.83333ldots$ and is more accurate unless you know how to take the infinite repetition of the $3$ into account (and calculators that I've seen do not know how to do that).



    Postscript:



    begin{align}
    80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times 0.8 = $20.36 \[10pt]
    80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times frac 4 5 = $5.09times 4 = $20.36 \[10pt]
    $25.45 & = frac 5 4 times $20.36 = 5times$5.09 \[10pt]
    $25.45 & = 1.25 times $20.36 = 125% text{ of } $20.36
    end{align}






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    • Whatcha mean infinite? You'd only need enough precision to figure out the partial penny (e.g., a tenth of a penny). Even the partial penny only affects rounding, if you do that. If you know the tenth-of-a-penny, there's no reason to figure out the hundredth or thousandth (or infinitth)
      – TOOGAM
      Jun 3 '17 at 6:18






    • 3




      @TOOGAM Not necessarily, you might be buying a thousand units. Your suggestion could mean that you end up paying £833.00 for a thousand one pound items discounted by a sixth, where the correct amount would be £833.33. It's not a big difference, but it's a difference, and that kind of thing tends to make accountants unhappy.
      – Mike Scott
      Jun 3 '17 at 12:14








    • 1




      This is a simple explanation, and makes good sense. +1 Lots of folk (in real life) seem to not have grasped your middle para.
      – Tim
      Jun 3 '17 at 14:15










    • @TOOGAM : Rounding before the last step is far more hazardous than you seem to realize.
      – Michael Hardy
      Jun 4 '17 at 23:38










    • @MikeScott and Michael Hardy: Obviously rounding too early can affect things. Why'd both of you think there's another step, such as multiplying the $25.45 by a thousand? Both of you seem to indicate there is at least one more step, but the question didn't say anything about a thousand units, nor did the question specify that the 20% discount is per final order (instead of per item). The question didn't say $25.45 "each unit". After discussing "the goods", it says "their total was 20.34", suggesting that we've already added (to handle quantities), and are looking at the more final totals.
      – TOOGAM
      Jun 5 '17 at 2:07


















    up vote
    3
    down vote













    The trouble with percentages (and a major source of math anxiety when people are doing mental arithmetic) is that they are inherently ambiguous. The question most people are not trained to ask is percent of what. Most of the problems occur because when percentages are use the percent of what is not explicitly specified.



    In this question a 20% discount probably means deduct 20% from the stated price. But, unless this is stated very explicitly there is still room for confusion. If it really is 20% off the stated price then the correct result is price*0.8.



    But it is a little ambiguous. Here is an example. In the UK we have a sales tax called VAT levied at 20%. But 20% of what? Legally it is 20% of the pre-tax price but shops have to quote the total price after tax has been applied (something the USA ought to mandate to avoid confusion for foreigners if not locals as well). So if a discount is described as "we pay your VAT" it sounds like a 20% discount to many but is actually a reduction of ~16.7% on the stated price (1/1.2 since the stated price is pre-tax price*1.2).



    So, if you want to avoid confusion with percentages, always ask percent of what?



    And, if you are going to be a good scientist always specify explicitly what your percentages mean. If your drug "reduces deaths by 20%" be very explicit in saying from what base (and tell us what percentage of people die without the drug so we can judge the absolute risk: 10 deaths reduced to 8 is a significant result when only 100 people were in the trial but not much when there are 10,000 people in the trial).






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      You cannot multiply anything by 0.8333 to arrive at 80% of the original. All you end up with is 83.33% of the original. So to get a discount of 20%, you need to calculate 80% 0f that figure. Don't know where '.8333' came from! That only gives a discount of 16.7%. X times 0.8 does it right. To get that discounted figure back to its original, multiply by 1.25.



      Please explain why you thought 0.8333 was a good idea, and also edit the question with one start point value - you wrote two different ones.



      Basic answer, the 'less 20%' - aka times 0.8 can be the only way. Even if tax was applied to the item before and after discount, it would make no difference.






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • We have phantom downvoters on this site too! I need to know what the reason is, please!
        – Tim
        Jun 4 '17 at 16:44






      • 1




        I didn't downvote, though my guess would be that downvoters didn't feel that this answer added anything beyond what's already been covered in prior answers. Repetition makes for clutter and consumes readers' time for no return. You'd probably have gotten a lot of upvotes if this were the first answer.
        – Nat
        Jun 4 '17 at 21:53













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      6 Answers
      6






      active

      oldest

      votes








      6 Answers
      6






      active

      oldest

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      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      73
      down vote



      accepted










      A $20%$ discount means that the price is $80%$ of what it was originally, so you multiply by $1-0.2=0.8$.



      $0.8dot{3}$ is $1/1.2$, which is used to find out the original price when you have been given $120%$ of it (if there's $20%$ tax included in it, for example)






      share|cite|improve this answer

















      • 4




        So $1-r$ is not the same as $frac{1}{1+r}$. This is related to the fact that $(1-r)(1+r)$ is not one exactly (physicists would say it is $1$ only to the first order in $r$). Another well-known way of thinking of it is if you first remove $frac{r}{100}$ percent, then add $frac{r}{100}$ percent of the resulting amount, then you're not back where you started.
        – Jeppe Stig Nielsen
        Jun 4 '17 at 7:17















      up vote
      73
      down vote



      accepted










      A $20%$ discount means that the price is $80%$ of what it was originally, so you multiply by $1-0.2=0.8$.



      $0.8dot{3}$ is $1/1.2$, which is used to find out the original price when you have been given $120%$ of it (if there's $20%$ tax included in it, for example)






      share|cite|improve this answer

















      • 4




        So $1-r$ is not the same as $frac{1}{1+r}$. This is related to the fact that $(1-r)(1+r)$ is not one exactly (physicists would say it is $1$ only to the first order in $r$). Another well-known way of thinking of it is if you first remove $frac{r}{100}$ percent, then add $frac{r}{100}$ percent of the resulting amount, then you're not back where you started.
        – Jeppe Stig Nielsen
        Jun 4 '17 at 7:17













      up vote
      73
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      73
      down vote



      accepted






      A $20%$ discount means that the price is $80%$ of what it was originally, so you multiply by $1-0.2=0.8$.



      $0.8dot{3}$ is $1/1.2$, which is used to find out the original price when you have been given $120%$ of it (if there's $20%$ tax included in it, for example)






      share|cite|improve this answer












      A $20%$ discount means that the price is $80%$ of what it was originally, so you multiply by $1-0.2=0.8$.



      $0.8dot{3}$ is $1/1.2$, which is used to find out the original price when you have been given $120%$ of it (if there's $20%$ tax included in it, for example)







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Jun 2 '17 at 16:00









      Chappers

      55.6k74192




      55.6k74192








      • 4




        So $1-r$ is not the same as $frac{1}{1+r}$. This is related to the fact that $(1-r)(1+r)$ is not one exactly (physicists would say it is $1$ only to the first order in $r$). Another well-known way of thinking of it is if you first remove $frac{r}{100}$ percent, then add $frac{r}{100}$ percent of the resulting amount, then you're not back where you started.
        – Jeppe Stig Nielsen
        Jun 4 '17 at 7:17














      • 4




        So $1-r$ is not the same as $frac{1}{1+r}$. This is related to the fact that $(1-r)(1+r)$ is not one exactly (physicists would say it is $1$ only to the first order in $r$). Another well-known way of thinking of it is if you first remove $frac{r}{100}$ percent, then add $frac{r}{100}$ percent of the resulting amount, then you're not back where you started.
        – Jeppe Stig Nielsen
        Jun 4 '17 at 7:17








      4




      4




      So $1-r$ is not the same as $frac{1}{1+r}$. This is related to the fact that $(1-r)(1+r)$ is not one exactly (physicists would say it is $1$ only to the first order in $r$). Another well-known way of thinking of it is if you first remove $frac{r}{100}$ percent, then add $frac{r}{100}$ percent of the resulting amount, then you're not back where you started.
      – Jeppe Stig Nielsen
      Jun 4 '17 at 7:17




      So $1-r$ is not the same as $frac{1}{1+r}$. This is related to the fact that $(1-r)(1+r)$ is not one exactly (physicists would say it is $1$ only to the first order in $r$). Another well-known way of thinking of it is if you first remove $frac{r}{100}$ percent, then add $frac{r}{100}$ percent of the resulting amount, then you're not back where you started.
      – Jeppe Stig Nielsen
      Jun 4 '17 at 7:17










      up vote
      17
      down vote













      Note that multiplying by $0.83bar3$ is really dividing by $1.2$. In order to know which one is right, you need to keep in mind which number represents $100%$, or the origin. Calculating percentages from the origin is done by multiplying, while recovering the origin from some given percentage is done by dividing.



      So finding $80%$ of a price is done by multiplying with $0.8$. If you have the $80%$ price and want to find the original price, you divide by $0.8$ (which becomes multiplying by $1.25$).



      So multiplying with $0.83bar3$, when we're talking about $20%$ and not $16.6bar6%$, is, as mentioned above, really dividing by $1.2$. That means that what we find is the original price when we're given the new price after a $20%$ price increase. That's not the same as finding $80%$.






      share|cite|improve this answer



























        up vote
        17
        down vote













        Note that multiplying by $0.83bar3$ is really dividing by $1.2$. In order to know which one is right, you need to keep in mind which number represents $100%$, or the origin. Calculating percentages from the origin is done by multiplying, while recovering the origin from some given percentage is done by dividing.



        So finding $80%$ of a price is done by multiplying with $0.8$. If you have the $80%$ price and want to find the original price, you divide by $0.8$ (which becomes multiplying by $1.25$).



        So multiplying with $0.83bar3$, when we're talking about $20%$ and not $16.6bar6%$, is, as mentioned above, really dividing by $1.2$. That means that what we find is the original price when we're given the new price after a $20%$ price increase. That's not the same as finding $80%$.






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          17
          down vote










          up vote
          17
          down vote









          Note that multiplying by $0.83bar3$ is really dividing by $1.2$. In order to know which one is right, you need to keep in mind which number represents $100%$, or the origin. Calculating percentages from the origin is done by multiplying, while recovering the origin from some given percentage is done by dividing.



          So finding $80%$ of a price is done by multiplying with $0.8$. If you have the $80%$ price and want to find the original price, you divide by $0.8$ (which becomes multiplying by $1.25$).



          So multiplying with $0.83bar3$, when we're talking about $20%$ and not $16.6bar6%$, is, as mentioned above, really dividing by $1.2$. That means that what we find is the original price when we're given the new price after a $20%$ price increase. That's not the same as finding $80%$.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          Note that multiplying by $0.83bar3$ is really dividing by $1.2$. In order to know which one is right, you need to keep in mind which number represents $100%$, or the origin. Calculating percentages from the origin is done by multiplying, while recovering the origin from some given percentage is done by dividing.



          So finding $80%$ of a price is done by multiplying with $0.8$. If you have the $80%$ price and want to find the original price, you divide by $0.8$ (which becomes multiplying by $1.25$).



          So multiplying with $0.83bar3$, when we're talking about $20%$ and not $16.6bar6%$, is, as mentioned above, really dividing by $1.2$. That means that what we find is the original price when we're given the new price after a $20%$ price increase. That's not the same as finding $80%$.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Jun 2 '17 at 16:06

























          answered Jun 2 '17 at 16:01









          Arthur

          110k7104186




          110k7104186






















              up vote
              14
              down vote













              An $x %$ discount normally means you subtract $x %$ of the original price.






              share|cite|improve this answer

















              • 2




                This does not at all answer the question that was asked.
                – The Great Duck
                Jun 2 '17 at 20:25








              • 28




                @TheGreatDuck I disagree.
                – Dan Henderson
                Jun 2 '17 at 22:46






              • 3




                @TheGreatDuck What don't you understand about my answer?
                – Robert Israel
                Jun 3 '17 at 2:13






              • 4




                @TheGreatDuck Not an ounce of multiplication is even mentioned here Well, "x% of the original price" counts as a multiplication in my books. You take the "original price", then multiply it by "x%" which is in this case "a 20% discount" according to the OP, meaning you multiply by $20% = 0.2,$. Once you subtract that from the original price $,x,$, what's left to pay is $,x - 0.2 x = 0.8 x,$. Not sure what your problem was with this answer.
                – dxiv
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:20








              • 2




                @TheGreatDuck I would expect the OP to very easily connect the x% discount from this answer to a 20% discount from the posted question, as to reckon that $x=20,$.
                – dxiv
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:26















              up vote
              14
              down vote













              An $x %$ discount normally means you subtract $x %$ of the original price.






              share|cite|improve this answer

















              • 2




                This does not at all answer the question that was asked.
                – The Great Duck
                Jun 2 '17 at 20:25








              • 28




                @TheGreatDuck I disagree.
                – Dan Henderson
                Jun 2 '17 at 22:46






              • 3




                @TheGreatDuck What don't you understand about my answer?
                – Robert Israel
                Jun 3 '17 at 2:13






              • 4




                @TheGreatDuck Not an ounce of multiplication is even mentioned here Well, "x% of the original price" counts as a multiplication in my books. You take the "original price", then multiply it by "x%" which is in this case "a 20% discount" according to the OP, meaning you multiply by $20% = 0.2,$. Once you subtract that from the original price $,x,$, what's left to pay is $,x - 0.2 x = 0.8 x,$. Not sure what your problem was with this answer.
                – dxiv
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:20








              • 2




                @TheGreatDuck I would expect the OP to very easily connect the x% discount from this answer to a 20% discount from the posted question, as to reckon that $x=20,$.
                – dxiv
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:26













              up vote
              14
              down vote










              up vote
              14
              down vote









              An $x %$ discount normally means you subtract $x %$ of the original price.






              share|cite|improve this answer












              An $x %$ discount normally means you subtract $x %$ of the original price.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Jun 2 '17 at 15:59









              Robert Israel

              316k23206457




              316k23206457








              • 2




                This does not at all answer the question that was asked.
                – The Great Duck
                Jun 2 '17 at 20:25








              • 28




                @TheGreatDuck I disagree.
                – Dan Henderson
                Jun 2 '17 at 22:46






              • 3




                @TheGreatDuck What don't you understand about my answer?
                – Robert Israel
                Jun 3 '17 at 2:13






              • 4




                @TheGreatDuck Not an ounce of multiplication is even mentioned here Well, "x% of the original price" counts as a multiplication in my books. You take the "original price", then multiply it by "x%" which is in this case "a 20% discount" according to the OP, meaning you multiply by $20% = 0.2,$. Once you subtract that from the original price $,x,$, what's left to pay is $,x - 0.2 x = 0.8 x,$. Not sure what your problem was with this answer.
                – dxiv
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:20








              • 2




                @TheGreatDuck I would expect the OP to very easily connect the x% discount from this answer to a 20% discount from the posted question, as to reckon that $x=20,$.
                – dxiv
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:26














              • 2




                This does not at all answer the question that was asked.
                – The Great Duck
                Jun 2 '17 at 20:25








              • 28




                @TheGreatDuck I disagree.
                – Dan Henderson
                Jun 2 '17 at 22:46






              • 3




                @TheGreatDuck What don't you understand about my answer?
                – Robert Israel
                Jun 3 '17 at 2:13






              • 4




                @TheGreatDuck Not an ounce of multiplication is even mentioned here Well, "x% of the original price" counts as a multiplication in my books. You take the "original price", then multiply it by "x%" which is in this case "a 20% discount" according to the OP, meaning you multiply by $20% = 0.2,$. Once you subtract that from the original price $,x,$, what's left to pay is $,x - 0.2 x = 0.8 x,$. Not sure what your problem was with this answer.
                – dxiv
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:20








              • 2




                @TheGreatDuck I would expect the OP to very easily connect the x% discount from this answer to a 20% discount from the posted question, as to reckon that $x=20,$.
                – dxiv
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:26








              2




              2




              This does not at all answer the question that was asked.
              – The Great Duck
              Jun 2 '17 at 20:25






              This does not at all answer the question that was asked.
              – The Great Duck
              Jun 2 '17 at 20:25






              28




              28




              @TheGreatDuck I disagree.
              – Dan Henderson
              Jun 2 '17 at 22:46




              @TheGreatDuck I disagree.
              – Dan Henderson
              Jun 2 '17 at 22:46




              3




              3




              @TheGreatDuck What don't you understand about my answer?
              – Robert Israel
              Jun 3 '17 at 2:13




              @TheGreatDuck What don't you understand about my answer?
              – Robert Israel
              Jun 3 '17 at 2:13




              4




              4




              @TheGreatDuck Not an ounce of multiplication is even mentioned here Well, "x% of the original price" counts as a multiplication in my books. You take the "original price", then multiply it by "x%" which is in this case "a 20% discount" according to the OP, meaning you multiply by $20% = 0.2,$. Once you subtract that from the original price $,x,$, what's left to pay is $,x - 0.2 x = 0.8 x,$. Not sure what your problem was with this answer.
              – dxiv
              Jun 3 '17 at 6:20






              @TheGreatDuck Not an ounce of multiplication is even mentioned here Well, "x% of the original price" counts as a multiplication in my books. You take the "original price", then multiply it by "x%" which is in this case "a 20% discount" according to the OP, meaning you multiply by $20% = 0.2,$. Once you subtract that from the original price $,x,$, what's left to pay is $,x - 0.2 x = 0.8 x,$. Not sure what your problem was with this answer.
              – dxiv
              Jun 3 '17 at 6:20






              2




              2




              @TheGreatDuck I would expect the OP to very easily connect the x% discount from this answer to a 20% discount from the posted question, as to reckon that $x=20,$.
              – dxiv
              Jun 3 '17 at 6:26




              @TheGreatDuck I would expect the OP to very easily connect the x% discount from this answer to a 20% discount from the posted question, as to reckon that $x=20,$.
              – dxiv
              Jun 3 '17 at 6:26










              up vote
              9
              down vote













              A $20%$ increase in price can be computed by dividing by $0.83333ldots$ (with $3$ repeating), but that does not mean a $20%$ decrease results from multiplying by that number. The reason is that in the latter problem we're dealing with $20%$ of a different quantity. A $20%$ decrease is computed by multiplying by $1-0.2 = 0.8.$



              For example, if you cut a $$100$ price by $50%$ and then increase it by $50%,$ you don't get back $$100,$ but rather $$75.$



              (Multiplying by $1.2$ is simpler than dividing by $0.83333ldots$ and is more accurate unless you know how to take the infinite repetition of the $3$ into account (and calculators that I've seen do not know how to do that).



              Postscript:



              begin{align}
              80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times 0.8 = $20.36 \[10pt]
              80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times frac 4 5 = $5.09times 4 = $20.36 \[10pt]
              $25.45 & = frac 5 4 times $20.36 = 5times$5.09 \[10pt]
              $25.45 & = 1.25 times $20.36 = 125% text{ of } $20.36
              end{align}






              share|cite|improve this answer























              • Whatcha mean infinite? You'd only need enough precision to figure out the partial penny (e.g., a tenth of a penny). Even the partial penny only affects rounding, if you do that. If you know the tenth-of-a-penny, there's no reason to figure out the hundredth or thousandth (or infinitth)
                – TOOGAM
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:18






              • 3




                @TOOGAM Not necessarily, you might be buying a thousand units. Your suggestion could mean that you end up paying £833.00 for a thousand one pound items discounted by a sixth, where the correct amount would be £833.33. It's not a big difference, but it's a difference, and that kind of thing tends to make accountants unhappy.
                – Mike Scott
                Jun 3 '17 at 12:14








              • 1




                This is a simple explanation, and makes good sense. +1 Lots of folk (in real life) seem to not have grasped your middle para.
                – Tim
                Jun 3 '17 at 14:15










              • @TOOGAM : Rounding before the last step is far more hazardous than you seem to realize.
                – Michael Hardy
                Jun 4 '17 at 23:38










              • @MikeScott and Michael Hardy: Obviously rounding too early can affect things. Why'd both of you think there's another step, such as multiplying the $25.45 by a thousand? Both of you seem to indicate there is at least one more step, but the question didn't say anything about a thousand units, nor did the question specify that the 20% discount is per final order (instead of per item). The question didn't say $25.45 "each unit". After discussing "the goods", it says "their total was 20.34", suggesting that we've already added (to handle quantities), and are looking at the more final totals.
                – TOOGAM
                Jun 5 '17 at 2:07















              up vote
              9
              down vote













              A $20%$ increase in price can be computed by dividing by $0.83333ldots$ (with $3$ repeating), but that does not mean a $20%$ decrease results from multiplying by that number. The reason is that in the latter problem we're dealing with $20%$ of a different quantity. A $20%$ decrease is computed by multiplying by $1-0.2 = 0.8.$



              For example, if you cut a $$100$ price by $50%$ and then increase it by $50%,$ you don't get back $$100,$ but rather $$75.$



              (Multiplying by $1.2$ is simpler than dividing by $0.83333ldots$ and is more accurate unless you know how to take the infinite repetition of the $3$ into account (and calculators that I've seen do not know how to do that).



              Postscript:



              begin{align}
              80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times 0.8 = $20.36 \[10pt]
              80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times frac 4 5 = $5.09times 4 = $20.36 \[10pt]
              $25.45 & = frac 5 4 times $20.36 = 5times$5.09 \[10pt]
              $25.45 & = 1.25 times $20.36 = 125% text{ of } $20.36
              end{align}






              share|cite|improve this answer























              • Whatcha mean infinite? You'd only need enough precision to figure out the partial penny (e.g., a tenth of a penny). Even the partial penny only affects rounding, if you do that. If you know the tenth-of-a-penny, there's no reason to figure out the hundredth or thousandth (or infinitth)
                – TOOGAM
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:18






              • 3




                @TOOGAM Not necessarily, you might be buying a thousand units. Your suggestion could mean that you end up paying £833.00 for a thousand one pound items discounted by a sixth, where the correct amount would be £833.33. It's not a big difference, but it's a difference, and that kind of thing tends to make accountants unhappy.
                – Mike Scott
                Jun 3 '17 at 12:14








              • 1




                This is a simple explanation, and makes good sense. +1 Lots of folk (in real life) seem to not have grasped your middle para.
                – Tim
                Jun 3 '17 at 14:15










              • @TOOGAM : Rounding before the last step is far more hazardous than you seem to realize.
                – Michael Hardy
                Jun 4 '17 at 23:38










              • @MikeScott and Michael Hardy: Obviously rounding too early can affect things. Why'd both of you think there's another step, such as multiplying the $25.45 by a thousand? Both of you seem to indicate there is at least one more step, but the question didn't say anything about a thousand units, nor did the question specify that the 20% discount is per final order (instead of per item). The question didn't say $25.45 "each unit". After discussing "the goods", it says "their total was 20.34", suggesting that we've already added (to handle quantities), and are looking at the more final totals.
                – TOOGAM
                Jun 5 '17 at 2:07













              up vote
              9
              down vote










              up vote
              9
              down vote









              A $20%$ increase in price can be computed by dividing by $0.83333ldots$ (with $3$ repeating), but that does not mean a $20%$ decrease results from multiplying by that number. The reason is that in the latter problem we're dealing with $20%$ of a different quantity. A $20%$ decrease is computed by multiplying by $1-0.2 = 0.8.$



              For example, if you cut a $$100$ price by $50%$ and then increase it by $50%,$ you don't get back $$100,$ but rather $$75.$



              (Multiplying by $1.2$ is simpler than dividing by $0.83333ldots$ and is more accurate unless you know how to take the infinite repetition of the $3$ into account (and calculators that I've seen do not know how to do that).



              Postscript:



              begin{align}
              80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times 0.8 = $20.36 \[10pt]
              80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times frac 4 5 = $5.09times 4 = $20.36 \[10pt]
              $25.45 & = frac 5 4 times $20.36 = 5times$5.09 \[10pt]
              $25.45 & = 1.25 times $20.36 = 125% text{ of } $20.36
              end{align}






              share|cite|improve this answer














              A $20%$ increase in price can be computed by dividing by $0.83333ldots$ (with $3$ repeating), but that does not mean a $20%$ decrease results from multiplying by that number. The reason is that in the latter problem we're dealing with $20%$ of a different quantity. A $20%$ decrease is computed by multiplying by $1-0.2 = 0.8.$



              For example, if you cut a $$100$ price by $50%$ and then increase it by $50%,$ you don't get back $$100,$ but rather $$75.$



              (Multiplying by $1.2$ is simpler than dividing by $0.83333ldots$ and is more accurate unless you know how to take the infinite repetition of the $3$ into account (and calculators that I've seen do not know how to do that).



              Postscript:



              begin{align}
              80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times 0.8 = $20.36 \[10pt]
              80% text{ of } $25.45 & = $25.45 times frac 4 5 = $5.09times 4 = $20.36 \[10pt]
              $25.45 & = frac 5 4 times $20.36 = 5times$5.09 \[10pt]
              $25.45 & = 1.25 times $20.36 = 125% text{ of } $20.36
              end{align}







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited Jun 5 '17 at 16:49

























              answered Jun 2 '17 at 16:19









              Michael Hardy

              1




              1












              • Whatcha mean infinite? You'd only need enough precision to figure out the partial penny (e.g., a tenth of a penny). Even the partial penny only affects rounding, if you do that. If you know the tenth-of-a-penny, there's no reason to figure out the hundredth or thousandth (or infinitth)
                – TOOGAM
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:18






              • 3




                @TOOGAM Not necessarily, you might be buying a thousand units. Your suggestion could mean that you end up paying £833.00 for a thousand one pound items discounted by a sixth, where the correct amount would be £833.33. It's not a big difference, but it's a difference, and that kind of thing tends to make accountants unhappy.
                – Mike Scott
                Jun 3 '17 at 12:14








              • 1




                This is a simple explanation, and makes good sense. +1 Lots of folk (in real life) seem to not have grasped your middle para.
                – Tim
                Jun 3 '17 at 14:15










              • @TOOGAM : Rounding before the last step is far more hazardous than you seem to realize.
                – Michael Hardy
                Jun 4 '17 at 23:38










              • @MikeScott and Michael Hardy: Obviously rounding too early can affect things. Why'd both of you think there's another step, such as multiplying the $25.45 by a thousand? Both of you seem to indicate there is at least one more step, but the question didn't say anything about a thousand units, nor did the question specify that the 20% discount is per final order (instead of per item). The question didn't say $25.45 "each unit". After discussing "the goods", it says "their total was 20.34", suggesting that we've already added (to handle quantities), and are looking at the more final totals.
                – TOOGAM
                Jun 5 '17 at 2:07


















              • Whatcha mean infinite? You'd only need enough precision to figure out the partial penny (e.g., a tenth of a penny). Even the partial penny only affects rounding, if you do that. If you know the tenth-of-a-penny, there's no reason to figure out the hundredth or thousandth (or infinitth)
                – TOOGAM
                Jun 3 '17 at 6:18






              • 3




                @TOOGAM Not necessarily, you might be buying a thousand units. Your suggestion could mean that you end up paying £833.00 for a thousand one pound items discounted by a sixth, where the correct amount would be £833.33. It's not a big difference, but it's a difference, and that kind of thing tends to make accountants unhappy.
                – Mike Scott
                Jun 3 '17 at 12:14








              • 1




                This is a simple explanation, and makes good sense. +1 Lots of folk (in real life) seem to not have grasped your middle para.
                – Tim
                Jun 3 '17 at 14:15










              • @TOOGAM : Rounding before the last step is far more hazardous than you seem to realize.
                – Michael Hardy
                Jun 4 '17 at 23:38










              • @MikeScott and Michael Hardy: Obviously rounding too early can affect things. Why'd both of you think there's another step, such as multiplying the $25.45 by a thousand? Both of you seem to indicate there is at least one more step, but the question didn't say anything about a thousand units, nor did the question specify that the 20% discount is per final order (instead of per item). The question didn't say $25.45 "each unit". After discussing "the goods", it says "their total was 20.34", suggesting that we've already added (to handle quantities), and are looking at the more final totals.
                – TOOGAM
                Jun 5 '17 at 2:07
















              Whatcha mean infinite? You'd only need enough precision to figure out the partial penny (e.g., a tenth of a penny). Even the partial penny only affects rounding, if you do that. If you know the tenth-of-a-penny, there's no reason to figure out the hundredth or thousandth (or infinitth)
              – TOOGAM
              Jun 3 '17 at 6:18




              Whatcha mean infinite? You'd only need enough precision to figure out the partial penny (e.g., a tenth of a penny). Even the partial penny only affects rounding, if you do that. If you know the tenth-of-a-penny, there's no reason to figure out the hundredth or thousandth (or infinitth)
              – TOOGAM
              Jun 3 '17 at 6:18




              3




              3




              @TOOGAM Not necessarily, you might be buying a thousand units. Your suggestion could mean that you end up paying £833.00 for a thousand one pound items discounted by a sixth, where the correct amount would be £833.33. It's not a big difference, but it's a difference, and that kind of thing tends to make accountants unhappy.
              – Mike Scott
              Jun 3 '17 at 12:14






              @TOOGAM Not necessarily, you might be buying a thousand units. Your suggestion could mean that you end up paying £833.00 for a thousand one pound items discounted by a sixth, where the correct amount would be £833.33. It's not a big difference, but it's a difference, and that kind of thing tends to make accountants unhappy.
              – Mike Scott
              Jun 3 '17 at 12:14






              1




              1




              This is a simple explanation, and makes good sense. +1 Lots of folk (in real life) seem to not have grasped your middle para.
              – Tim
              Jun 3 '17 at 14:15




              This is a simple explanation, and makes good sense. +1 Lots of folk (in real life) seem to not have grasped your middle para.
              – Tim
              Jun 3 '17 at 14:15












              @TOOGAM : Rounding before the last step is far more hazardous than you seem to realize.
              – Michael Hardy
              Jun 4 '17 at 23:38




              @TOOGAM : Rounding before the last step is far more hazardous than you seem to realize.
              – Michael Hardy
              Jun 4 '17 at 23:38












              @MikeScott and Michael Hardy: Obviously rounding too early can affect things. Why'd both of you think there's another step, such as multiplying the $25.45 by a thousand? Both of you seem to indicate there is at least one more step, but the question didn't say anything about a thousand units, nor did the question specify that the 20% discount is per final order (instead of per item). The question didn't say $25.45 "each unit". After discussing "the goods", it says "their total was 20.34", suggesting that we've already added (to handle quantities), and are looking at the more final totals.
              – TOOGAM
              Jun 5 '17 at 2:07




              @MikeScott and Michael Hardy: Obviously rounding too early can affect things. Why'd both of you think there's another step, such as multiplying the $25.45 by a thousand? Both of you seem to indicate there is at least one more step, but the question didn't say anything about a thousand units, nor did the question specify that the 20% discount is per final order (instead of per item). The question didn't say $25.45 "each unit". After discussing "the goods", it says "their total was 20.34", suggesting that we've already added (to handle quantities), and are looking at the more final totals.
              – TOOGAM
              Jun 5 '17 at 2:07










              up vote
              3
              down vote













              The trouble with percentages (and a major source of math anxiety when people are doing mental arithmetic) is that they are inherently ambiguous. The question most people are not trained to ask is percent of what. Most of the problems occur because when percentages are use the percent of what is not explicitly specified.



              In this question a 20% discount probably means deduct 20% from the stated price. But, unless this is stated very explicitly there is still room for confusion. If it really is 20% off the stated price then the correct result is price*0.8.



              But it is a little ambiguous. Here is an example. In the UK we have a sales tax called VAT levied at 20%. But 20% of what? Legally it is 20% of the pre-tax price but shops have to quote the total price after tax has been applied (something the USA ought to mandate to avoid confusion for foreigners if not locals as well). So if a discount is described as "we pay your VAT" it sounds like a 20% discount to many but is actually a reduction of ~16.7% on the stated price (1/1.2 since the stated price is pre-tax price*1.2).



              So, if you want to avoid confusion with percentages, always ask percent of what?



              And, if you are going to be a good scientist always specify explicitly what your percentages mean. If your drug "reduces deaths by 20%" be very explicit in saying from what base (and tell us what percentage of people die without the drug so we can judge the absolute risk: 10 deaths reduced to 8 is a significant result when only 100 people were in the trial but not much when there are 10,000 people in the trial).






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                3
                down vote













                The trouble with percentages (and a major source of math anxiety when people are doing mental arithmetic) is that they are inherently ambiguous. The question most people are not trained to ask is percent of what. Most of the problems occur because when percentages are use the percent of what is not explicitly specified.



                In this question a 20% discount probably means deduct 20% from the stated price. But, unless this is stated very explicitly there is still room for confusion. If it really is 20% off the stated price then the correct result is price*0.8.



                But it is a little ambiguous. Here is an example. In the UK we have a sales tax called VAT levied at 20%. But 20% of what? Legally it is 20% of the pre-tax price but shops have to quote the total price after tax has been applied (something the USA ought to mandate to avoid confusion for foreigners if not locals as well). So if a discount is described as "we pay your VAT" it sounds like a 20% discount to many but is actually a reduction of ~16.7% on the stated price (1/1.2 since the stated price is pre-tax price*1.2).



                So, if you want to avoid confusion with percentages, always ask percent of what?



                And, if you are going to be a good scientist always specify explicitly what your percentages mean. If your drug "reduces deaths by 20%" be very explicit in saying from what base (and tell us what percentage of people die without the drug so we can judge the absolute risk: 10 deaths reduced to 8 is a significant result when only 100 people were in the trial but not much when there are 10,000 people in the trial).






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote









                  The trouble with percentages (and a major source of math anxiety when people are doing mental arithmetic) is that they are inherently ambiguous. The question most people are not trained to ask is percent of what. Most of the problems occur because when percentages are use the percent of what is not explicitly specified.



                  In this question a 20% discount probably means deduct 20% from the stated price. But, unless this is stated very explicitly there is still room for confusion. If it really is 20% off the stated price then the correct result is price*0.8.



                  But it is a little ambiguous. Here is an example. In the UK we have a sales tax called VAT levied at 20%. But 20% of what? Legally it is 20% of the pre-tax price but shops have to quote the total price after tax has been applied (something the USA ought to mandate to avoid confusion for foreigners if not locals as well). So if a discount is described as "we pay your VAT" it sounds like a 20% discount to many but is actually a reduction of ~16.7% on the stated price (1/1.2 since the stated price is pre-tax price*1.2).



                  So, if you want to avoid confusion with percentages, always ask percent of what?



                  And, if you are going to be a good scientist always specify explicitly what your percentages mean. If your drug "reduces deaths by 20%" be very explicit in saying from what base (and tell us what percentage of people die without the drug so we can judge the absolute risk: 10 deaths reduced to 8 is a significant result when only 100 people were in the trial but not much when there are 10,000 people in the trial).






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  The trouble with percentages (and a major source of math anxiety when people are doing mental arithmetic) is that they are inherently ambiguous. The question most people are not trained to ask is percent of what. Most of the problems occur because when percentages are use the percent of what is not explicitly specified.



                  In this question a 20% discount probably means deduct 20% from the stated price. But, unless this is stated very explicitly there is still room for confusion. If it really is 20% off the stated price then the correct result is price*0.8.



                  But it is a little ambiguous. Here is an example. In the UK we have a sales tax called VAT levied at 20%. But 20% of what? Legally it is 20% of the pre-tax price but shops have to quote the total price after tax has been applied (something the USA ought to mandate to avoid confusion for foreigners if not locals as well). So if a discount is described as "we pay your VAT" it sounds like a 20% discount to many but is actually a reduction of ~16.7% on the stated price (1/1.2 since the stated price is pre-tax price*1.2).



                  So, if you want to avoid confusion with percentages, always ask percent of what?



                  And, if you are going to be a good scientist always specify explicitly what your percentages mean. If your drug "reduces deaths by 20%" be very explicit in saying from what base (and tell us what percentage of people die without the drug so we can judge the absolute risk: 10 deaths reduced to 8 is a significant result when only 100 people were in the trial but not much when there are 10,000 people in the trial).







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Jun 4 '17 at 10:34









                  matt_black

                  20315




                  20315






















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      You cannot multiply anything by 0.8333 to arrive at 80% of the original. All you end up with is 83.33% of the original. So to get a discount of 20%, you need to calculate 80% 0f that figure. Don't know where '.8333' came from! That only gives a discount of 16.7%. X times 0.8 does it right. To get that discounted figure back to its original, multiply by 1.25.



                      Please explain why you thought 0.8333 was a good idea, and also edit the question with one start point value - you wrote two different ones.



                      Basic answer, the 'less 20%' - aka times 0.8 can be the only way. Even if tax was applied to the item before and after discount, it would make no difference.






                      share|cite|improve this answer





















                      • We have phantom downvoters on this site too! I need to know what the reason is, please!
                        – Tim
                        Jun 4 '17 at 16:44






                      • 1




                        I didn't downvote, though my guess would be that downvoters didn't feel that this answer added anything beyond what's already been covered in prior answers. Repetition makes for clutter and consumes readers' time for no return. You'd probably have gotten a lot of upvotes if this were the first answer.
                        – Nat
                        Jun 4 '17 at 21:53

















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      You cannot multiply anything by 0.8333 to arrive at 80% of the original. All you end up with is 83.33% of the original. So to get a discount of 20%, you need to calculate 80% 0f that figure. Don't know where '.8333' came from! That only gives a discount of 16.7%. X times 0.8 does it right. To get that discounted figure back to its original, multiply by 1.25.



                      Please explain why you thought 0.8333 was a good idea, and also edit the question with one start point value - you wrote two different ones.



                      Basic answer, the 'less 20%' - aka times 0.8 can be the only way. Even if tax was applied to the item before and after discount, it would make no difference.






                      share|cite|improve this answer





















                      • We have phantom downvoters on this site too! I need to know what the reason is, please!
                        – Tim
                        Jun 4 '17 at 16:44






                      • 1




                        I didn't downvote, though my guess would be that downvoters didn't feel that this answer added anything beyond what's already been covered in prior answers. Repetition makes for clutter and consumes readers' time for no return. You'd probably have gotten a lot of upvotes if this were the first answer.
                        – Nat
                        Jun 4 '17 at 21:53















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote









                      You cannot multiply anything by 0.8333 to arrive at 80% of the original. All you end up with is 83.33% of the original. So to get a discount of 20%, you need to calculate 80% 0f that figure. Don't know where '.8333' came from! That only gives a discount of 16.7%. X times 0.8 does it right. To get that discounted figure back to its original, multiply by 1.25.



                      Please explain why you thought 0.8333 was a good idea, and also edit the question with one start point value - you wrote two different ones.



                      Basic answer, the 'less 20%' - aka times 0.8 can be the only way. Even if tax was applied to the item before and after discount, it would make no difference.






                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      You cannot multiply anything by 0.8333 to arrive at 80% of the original. All you end up with is 83.33% of the original. So to get a discount of 20%, you need to calculate 80% 0f that figure. Don't know where '.8333' came from! That only gives a discount of 16.7%. X times 0.8 does it right. To get that discounted figure back to its original, multiply by 1.25.



                      Please explain why you thought 0.8333 was a good idea, and also edit the question with one start point value - you wrote two different ones.



                      Basic answer, the 'less 20%' - aka times 0.8 can be the only way. Even if tax was applied to the item before and after discount, it would make no difference.







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered Jun 4 '17 at 12:37









                      Tim

                      1094




                      1094












                      • We have phantom downvoters on this site too! I need to know what the reason is, please!
                        – Tim
                        Jun 4 '17 at 16:44






                      • 1




                        I didn't downvote, though my guess would be that downvoters didn't feel that this answer added anything beyond what's already been covered in prior answers. Repetition makes for clutter and consumes readers' time for no return. You'd probably have gotten a lot of upvotes if this were the first answer.
                        – Nat
                        Jun 4 '17 at 21:53




















                      • We have phantom downvoters on this site too! I need to know what the reason is, please!
                        – Tim
                        Jun 4 '17 at 16:44






                      • 1




                        I didn't downvote, though my guess would be that downvoters didn't feel that this answer added anything beyond what's already been covered in prior answers. Repetition makes for clutter and consumes readers' time for no return. You'd probably have gotten a lot of upvotes if this were the first answer.
                        – Nat
                        Jun 4 '17 at 21:53


















                      We have phantom downvoters on this site too! I need to know what the reason is, please!
                      – Tim
                      Jun 4 '17 at 16:44




                      We have phantom downvoters on this site too! I need to know what the reason is, please!
                      – Tim
                      Jun 4 '17 at 16:44




                      1




                      1




                      I didn't downvote, though my guess would be that downvoters didn't feel that this answer added anything beyond what's already been covered in prior answers. Repetition makes for clutter and consumes readers' time for no return. You'd probably have gotten a lot of upvotes if this were the first answer.
                      – Nat
                      Jun 4 '17 at 21:53






                      I didn't downvote, though my guess would be that downvoters didn't feel that this answer added anything beyond what's already been covered in prior answers. Repetition makes for clutter and consumes readers' time for no return. You'd probably have gotten a lot of upvotes if this were the first answer.
                      – Nat
                      Jun 4 '17 at 21:53




















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