help with $;(x+3)^{1/3} = (x-1)^{1/2}$
Taking the 6th power of both sides leads to
$x^2 + 6x + 9 = x^3 - 3x^2 + 3x -1 ;Rightarrow;
0 = (x-5)(x^2 + x + 2).$
Therefore, the only possible solutions are
$;{5, frac{-1}{2} pm ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2} }.$
$x=5;$ can be manually verified as satisfying the equation in this posting's title, but what is the easiest way to determine whether either or both of the other two candidate solutions also satisfy the equation?
Can this be done without having to solve a cubic equation to determine (for example) all 3 cube roots of $; left(frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right)?$
Furthermore, assume that all 3 cube roots of $;left(frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right);$ are identified and that both square roots of $;left(frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right);$ are identified. In order to conclude that the equation in the title is satisfied, which of the 3 cube roots are you supposed to compare to which of the two square roots? Re-wording this last question, when $;(x+3);$ and/or $;(x-1);$ are complex, with at least one of the complex values having distinct roots, does this automatically render the equation ambiguous?
My Answer:
The interface won't allow me to post an answer, so I'm placing my conclusion
here.
Construing $;e^{itheta}$ as $cos(theta) + isin(theta),;$ and using
de Moivre's theorem, which is easily proven by induction,
$;left(e^{itheta}right)^n = e^{ntimes itheta}.;$
Therefore, for $;ninmathbb{Z+},;$ the equation $;z^n = 1;$ will have the n
distinct roots $xi_k = e^{itimes 2kpi/n} ;: ;k in {0,1,cdots,n-1}.$
Further, any fixed non-zero complex $z_1$ can be expressed in the form
$;re^{itheta},;$ where $;0<rinmathbb{R},;$ and $;thetain[0,2pi).$
Thus, the equation $;z^n - z_1 = 0,;$ which can have at most n roots will have
the root $;z_2 = r^{1/n}e^{i(theta/n)}.;$ Therefore the equation $;z^n - z_1 = 0,;$
will always have exactly n distinct roots, given by $;z_2xi_k, ;:
;k in {0,1,cdots,n-1}.$
In real analysis, $5$ is considered to be an answer to the equation
$;(x+3)^{1/3} = (x-1)^{1/2};$ However, in complex analysis,
8 has 3 cube roots, while 4 has 2 square roots, and exactly one of the 3
cube roots coincides with one of the two square roots.
Therefore, in complex analysis, it seems reasonable to construe
$;[f(z)]^{1/n} = [g(z)]^{1/m};:$ $;f(z),g(z)$ are two polynomials with integer
coefficients and $;n,m in mathbb{Z^+};$
as intending that
$z_1$ is a solution if and only if at least one of the $n^{th}$ roots of $f(z_1)$
coincides with one of the $m^{th}$ roots of $g(z_1).$
Let $;z_1 = frac{-1}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}.;$
From the analysis shown at the start of this question,
$;(z_1 + 3)^2 = (z_1 - 1)^3.;$
Therefore, the six roots of $;{(z_1 + 3)^2}^{1/6};$ exactly coincide with
the six roots of $;{(z_1 - 1)^3}^{1/6},;$ and the arguments (i.e. angles) of
these 6 roots will differ with
each other by $(2pi/6).;$ Further, 3 of these 6 roots
correspond to the 3 roots of $;(z_1 + 3)^{1/3};$ and these 3 roots
will have arguments that differ with each other by $(2pi/3).;$
Similarly, 2 of these 6
roots correspond to the 2 roots of $;(z_1 - 1)^{1/2};$
and these 2 roots
have arguments that differ with each other by $(2pi/2).;$
Therefore, one of the cube roots of $;(z_1 + 3);$ must coincide with one
of the square roots of $;(z_1 - 1).;$
complex-analysis algebra-precalculus complex-numbers radicals
|
show 1 more comment
Taking the 6th power of both sides leads to
$x^2 + 6x + 9 = x^3 - 3x^2 + 3x -1 ;Rightarrow;
0 = (x-5)(x^2 + x + 2).$
Therefore, the only possible solutions are
$;{5, frac{-1}{2} pm ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2} }.$
$x=5;$ can be manually verified as satisfying the equation in this posting's title, but what is the easiest way to determine whether either or both of the other two candidate solutions also satisfy the equation?
Can this be done without having to solve a cubic equation to determine (for example) all 3 cube roots of $; left(frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right)?$
Furthermore, assume that all 3 cube roots of $;left(frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right);$ are identified and that both square roots of $;left(frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right);$ are identified. In order to conclude that the equation in the title is satisfied, which of the 3 cube roots are you supposed to compare to which of the two square roots? Re-wording this last question, when $;(x+3);$ and/or $;(x-1);$ are complex, with at least one of the complex values having distinct roots, does this automatically render the equation ambiguous?
My Answer:
The interface won't allow me to post an answer, so I'm placing my conclusion
here.
Construing $;e^{itheta}$ as $cos(theta) + isin(theta),;$ and using
de Moivre's theorem, which is easily proven by induction,
$;left(e^{itheta}right)^n = e^{ntimes itheta}.;$
Therefore, for $;ninmathbb{Z+},;$ the equation $;z^n = 1;$ will have the n
distinct roots $xi_k = e^{itimes 2kpi/n} ;: ;k in {0,1,cdots,n-1}.$
Further, any fixed non-zero complex $z_1$ can be expressed in the form
$;re^{itheta},;$ where $;0<rinmathbb{R},;$ and $;thetain[0,2pi).$
Thus, the equation $;z^n - z_1 = 0,;$ which can have at most n roots will have
the root $;z_2 = r^{1/n}e^{i(theta/n)}.;$ Therefore the equation $;z^n - z_1 = 0,;$
will always have exactly n distinct roots, given by $;z_2xi_k, ;:
;k in {0,1,cdots,n-1}.$
In real analysis, $5$ is considered to be an answer to the equation
$;(x+3)^{1/3} = (x-1)^{1/2};$ However, in complex analysis,
8 has 3 cube roots, while 4 has 2 square roots, and exactly one of the 3
cube roots coincides with one of the two square roots.
Therefore, in complex analysis, it seems reasonable to construe
$;[f(z)]^{1/n} = [g(z)]^{1/m};:$ $;f(z),g(z)$ are two polynomials with integer
coefficients and $;n,m in mathbb{Z^+};$
as intending that
$z_1$ is a solution if and only if at least one of the $n^{th}$ roots of $f(z_1)$
coincides with one of the $m^{th}$ roots of $g(z_1).$
Let $;z_1 = frac{-1}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}.;$
From the analysis shown at the start of this question,
$;(z_1 + 3)^2 = (z_1 - 1)^3.;$
Therefore, the six roots of $;{(z_1 + 3)^2}^{1/6};$ exactly coincide with
the six roots of $;{(z_1 - 1)^3}^{1/6},;$ and the arguments (i.e. angles) of
these 6 roots will differ with
each other by $(2pi/6).;$ Further, 3 of these 6 roots
correspond to the 3 roots of $;(z_1 + 3)^{1/3};$ and these 3 roots
will have arguments that differ with each other by $(2pi/3).;$
Similarly, 2 of these 6
roots correspond to the 2 roots of $;(z_1 - 1)^{1/2};$
and these 2 roots
have arguments that differ with each other by $(2pi/2).;$
Therefore, one of the cube roots of $;(z_1 + 3);$ must coincide with one
of the square roots of $;(z_1 - 1).;$
complex-analysis algebra-precalculus complex-numbers radicals
Are you sure you're supposed to consider the complex solutions?
– Joel Pereira
Nov 24 at 2:39
@JoelPereira Actually, I found the problem on a foreign language youtube, where I followed the math but couldn't understand what the teacher was saying. My impression is that the intent was to not consider complex solutions. However, I am regarding the intent as irrelevant. I intend that my question does focus on complex solutions. I understand that if $;(z_1)^n = z_2,;$ then so does $;(z_1epsilon)^n,;$ where $epsilon$ is any of the n roots of unity. What I am asking is how do professional mathematicians untangle this mess?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 3:42
The question cannot be answered if you don't specify precisely what is meant by $z^{1/2}$ and $z^{1/3}$ in the complex. (Please don't answer square and cubic roots.)
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:09
@YvesDaoust agreed, but in the answer that I posted at the end of my question, I offer what I regard as a reasonable construance which resolves your issue.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:11
This information belongs to the question, we shouldn't have to dig the answer.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:14
|
show 1 more comment
Taking the 6th power of both sides leads to
$x^2 + 6x + 9 = x^3 - 3x^2 + 3x -1 ;Rightarrow;
0 = (x-5)(x^2 + x + 2).$
Therefore, the only possible solutions are
$;{5, frac{-1}{2} pm ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2} }.$
$x=5;$ can be manually verified as satisfying the equation in this posting's title, but what is the easiest way to determine whether either or both of the other two candidate solutions also satisfy the equation?
Can this be done without having to solve a cubic equation to determine (for example) all 3 cube roots of $; left(frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right)?$
Furthermore, assume that all 3 cube roots of $;left(frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right);$ are identified and that both square roots of $;left(frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right);$ are identified. In order to conclude that the equation in the title is satisfied, which of the 3 cube roots are you supposed to compare to which of the two square roots? Re-wording this last question, when $;(x+3);$ and/or $;(x-1);$ are complex, with at least one of the complex values having distinct roots, does this automatically render the equation ambiguous?
My Answer:
The interface won't allow me to post an answer, so I'm placing my conclusion
here.
Construing $;e^{itheta}$ as $cos(theta) + isin(theta),;$ and using
de Moivre's theorem, which is easily proven by induction,
$;left(e^{itheta}right)^n = e^{ntimes itheta}.;$
Therefore, for $;ninmathbb{Z+},;$ the equation $;z^n = 1;$ will have the n
distinct roots $xi_k = e^{itimes 2kpi/n} ;: ;k in {0,1,cdots,n-1}.$
Further, any fixed non-zero complex $z_1$ can be expressed in the form
$;re^{itheta},;$ where $;0<rinmathbb{R},;$ and $;thetain[0,2pi).$
Thus, the equation $;z^n - z_1 = 0,;$ which can have at most n roots will have
the root $;z_2 = r^{1/n}e^{i(theta/n)}.;$ Therefore the equation $;z^n - z_1 = 0,;$
will always have exactly n distinct roots, given by $;z_2xi_k, ;:
;k in {0,1,cdots,n-1}.$
In real analysis, $5$ is considered to be an answer to the equation
$;(x+3)^{1/3} = (x-1)^{1/2};$ However, in complex analysis,
8 has 3 cube roots, while 4 has 2 square roots, and exactly one of the 3
cube roots coincides with one of the two square roots.
Therefore, in complex analysis, it seems reasonable to construe
$;[f(z)]^{1/n} = [g(z)]^{1/m};:$ $;f(z),g(z)$ are two polynomials with integer
coefficients and $;n,m in mathbb{Z^+};$
as intending that
$z_1$ is a solution if and only if at least one of the $n^{th}$ roots of $f(z_1)$
coincides with one of the $m^{th}$ roots of $g(z_1).$
Let $;z_1 = frac{-1}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}.;$
From the analysis shown at the start of this question,
$;(z_1 + 3)^2 = (z_1 - 1)^3.;$
Therefore, the six roots of $;{(z_1 + 3)^2}^{1/6};$ exactly coincide with
the six roots of $;{(z_1 - 1)^3}^{1/6},;$ and the arguments (i.e. angles) of
these 6 roots will differ with
each other by $(2pi/6).;$ Further, 3 of these 6 roots
correspond to the 3 roots of $;(z_1 + 3)^{1/3};$ and these 3 roots
will have arguments that differ with each other by $(2pi/3).;$
Similarly, 2 of these 6
roots correspond to the 2 roots of $;(z_1 - 1)^{1/2};$
and these 2 roots
have arguments that differ with each other by $(2pi/2).;$
Therefore, one of the cube roots of $;(z_1 + 3);$ must coincide with one
of the square roots of $;(z_1 - 1).;$
complex-analysis algebra-precalculus complex-numbers radicals
Taking the 6th power of both sides leads to
$x^2 + 6x + 9 = x^3 - 3x^2 + 3x -1 ;Rightarrow;
0 = (x-5)(x^2 + x + 2).$
Therefore, the only possible solutions are
$;{5, frac{-1}{2} pm ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2} }.$
$x=5;$ can be manually verified as satisfying the equation in this posting's title, but what is the easiest way to determine whether either or both of the other two candidate solutions also satisfy the equation?
Can this be done without having to solve a cubic equation to determine (for example) all 3 cube roots of $; left(frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right)?$
Furthermore, assume that all 3 cube roots of $;left(frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right);$ are identified and that both square roots of $;left(frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}right);$ are identified. In order to conclude that the equation in the title is satisfied, which of the 3 cube roots are you supposed to compare to which of the two square roots? Re-wording this last question, when $;(x+3);$ and/or $;(x-1);$ are complex, with at least one of the complex values having distinct roots, does this automatically render the equation ambiguous?
My Answer:
The interface won't allow me to post an answer, so I'm placing my conclusion
here.
Construing $;e^{itheta}$ as $cos(theta) + isin(theta),;$ and using
de Moivre's theorem, which is easily proven by induction,
$;left(e^{itheta}right)^n = e^{ntimes itheta}.;$
Therefore, for $;ninmathbb{Z+},;$ the equation $;z^n = 1;$ will have the n
distinct roots $xi_k = e^{itimes 2kpi/n} ;: ;k in {0,1,cdots,n-1}.$
Further, any fixed non-zero complex $z_1$ can be expressed in the form
$;re^{itheta},;$ where $;0<rinmathbb{R},;$ and $;thetain[0,2pi).$
Thus, the equation $;z^n - z_1 = 0,;$ which can have at most n roots will have
the root $;z_2 = r^{1/n}e^{i(theta/n)}.;$ Therefore the equation $;z^n - z_1 = 0,;$
will always have exactly n distinct roots, given by $;z_2xi_k, ;:
;k in {0,1,cdots,n-1}.$
In real analysis, $5$ is considered to be an answer to the equation
$;(x+3)^{1/3} = (x-1)^{1/2};$ However, in complex analysis,
8 has 3 cube roots, while 4 has 2 square roots, and exactly one of the 3
cube roots coincides with one of the two square roots.
Therefore, in complex analysis, it seems reasonable to construe
$;[f(z)]^{1/n} = [g(z)]^{1/m};:$ $;f(z),g(z)$ are two polynomials with integer
coefficients and $;n,m in mathbb{Z^+};$
as intending that
$z_1$ is a solution if and only if at least one of the $n^{th}$ roots of $f(z_1)$
coincides with one of the $m^{th}$ roots of $g(z_1).$
Let $;z_1 = frac{-1}{2} + ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}.;$
From the analysis shown at the start of this question,
$;(z_1 + 3)^2 = (z_1 - 1)^3.;$
Therefore, the six roots of $;{(z_1 + 3)^2}^{1/6};$ exactly coincide with
the six roots of $;{(z_1 - 1)^3}^{1/6},;$ and the arguments (i.e. angles) of
these 6 roots will differ with
each other by $(2pi/6).;$ Further, 3 of these 6 roots
correspond to the 3 roots of $;(z_1 + 3)^{1/3};$ and these 3 roots
will have arguments that differ with each other by $(2pi/3).;$
Similarly, 2 of these 6
roots correspond to the 2 roots of $;(z_1 - 1)^{1/2};$
and these 2 roots
have arguments that differ with each other by $(2pi/2).;$
Therefore, one of the cube roots of $;(z_1 + 3);$ must coincide with one
of the square roots of $;(z_1 - 1).;$
complex-analysis algebra-precalculus complex-numbers radicals
complex-analysis algebra-precalculus complex-numbers radicals
edited Nov 24 at 17:28
asked Nov 24 at 1:52
user2661923
465112
465112
Are you sure you're supposed to consider the complex solutions?
– Joel Pereira
Nov 24 at 2:39
@JoelPereira Actually, I found the problem on a foreign language youtube, where I followed the math but couldn't understand what the teacher was saying. My impression is that the intent was to not consider complex solutions. However, I am regarding the intent as irrelevant. I intend that my question does focus on complex solutions. I understand that if $;(z_1)^n = z_2,;$ then so does $;(z_1epsilon)^n,;$ where $epsilon$ is any of the n roots of unity. What I am asking is how do professional mathematicians untangle this mess?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 3:42
The question cannot be answered if you don't specify precisely what is meant by $z^{1/2}$ and $z^{1/3}$ in the complex. (Please don't answer square and cubic roots.)
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:09
@YvesDaoust agreed, but in the answer that I posted at the end of my question, I offer what I regard as a reasonable construance which resolves your issue.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:11
This information belongs to the question, we shouldn't have to dig the answer.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:14
|
show 1 more comment
Are you sure you're supposed to consider the complex solutions?
– Joel Pereira
Nov 24 at 2:39
@JoelPereira Actually, I found the problem on a foreign language youtube, where I followed the math but couldn't understand what the teacher was saying. My impression is that the intent was to not consider complex solutions. However, I am regarding the intent as irrelevant. I intend that my question does focus on complex solutions. I understand that if $;(z_1)^n = z_2,;$ then so does $;(z_1epsilon)^n,;$ where $epsilon$ is any of the n roots of unity. What I am asking is how do professional mathematicians untangle this mess?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 3:42
The question cannot be answered if you don't specify precisely what is meant by $z^{1/2}$ and $z^{1/3}$ in the complex. (Please don't answer square and cubic roots.)
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:09
@YvesDaoust agreed, but in the answer that I posted at the end of my question, I offer what I regard as a reasonable construance which resolves your issue.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:11
This information belongs to the question, we shouldn't have to dig the answer.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:14
Are you sure you're supposed to consider the complex solutions?
– Joel Pereira
Nov 24 at 2:39
Are you sure you're supposed to consider the complex solutions?
– Joel Pereira
Nov 24 at 2:39
@JoelPereira Actually, I found the problem on a foreign language youtube, where I followed the math but couldn't understand what the teacher was saying. My impression is that the intent was to not consider complex solutions. However, I am regarding the intent as irrelevant. I intend that my question does focus on complex solutions. I understand that if $;(z_1)^n = z_2,;$ then so does $;(z_1epsilon)^n,;$ where $epsilon$ is any of the n roots of unity. What I am asking is how do professional mathematicians untangle this mess?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 3:42
@JoelPereira Actually, I found the problem on a foreign language youtube, where I followed the math but couldn't understand what the teacher was saying. My impression is that the intent was to not consider complex solutions. However, I am regarding the intent as irrelevant. I intend that my question does focus on complex solutions. I understand that if $;(z_1)^n = z_2,;$ then so does $;(z_1epsilon)^n,;$ where $epsilon$ is any of the n roots of unity. What I am asking is how do professional mathematicians untangle this mess?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 3:42
The question cannot be answered if you don't specify precisely what is meant by $z^{1/2}$ and $z^{1/3}$ in the complex. (Please don't answer square and cubic roots.)
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:09
The question cannot be answered if you don't specify precisely what is meant by $z^{1/2}$ and $z^{1/3}$ in the complex. (Please don't answer square and cubic roots.)
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:09
@YvesDaoust agreed, but in the answer that I posted at the end of my question, I offer what I regard as a reasonable construance which resolves your issue.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:11
@YvesDaoust agreed, but in the answer that I posted at the end of my question, I offer what I regard as a reasonable construance which resolves your issue.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:11
This information belongs to the question, we shouldn't have to dig the answer.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:14
This information belongs to the question, we shouldn't have to dig the answer.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:14
|
show 1 more comment
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
You want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that the set
$$(x+3)^{1/3}cap (x-1)^{1/2}subset{mathbb C}$$
is nonempty. In other words, you want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that there is an $uin{mathbb C}$ with
$$u^3=x+3,qquad u^2=x-1 .tag{1}$$
You already have established that necessarily $$xinleft{5,-{1over2}+i{sqrt{7}over2}, -{1over2}-i{sqrt{7}over2}right} .tag{2}$$ Now $(1)$ implies that, given $x$, the value of $u$ is determined by
$$u={u^3over u^2}={x+3over x-1} .tag{3}$$
The procedure is then clear: For each $x$ in the candidate list $(2)$ compute the corresponding $u$ by means of $(3)$; then check whether $u^2=x-1$. (This will automatically guarantee $u^3=x+3$ as well.) The candidates $x$ that pass this test can be considered as solutions to the original equation under the chosen interpretation.
nice elegant solution.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:02
add a comment |
The answer depends in part on the meaning you give to fractional powers of complex numbers. If you think of $z^{1/n}$ as any complex number whose $n$th power is $z$, then you can get $(x+3)^{1/3}$ to equal $(x-1)^{1/2}$ with $x=(-1pm isqrt7)/2$. But if you want $z^{1/n}$ to be a single-valued function, then the answer will depend on the convention you use for picking the $n$th root.
In particular, most $n$th-root conventions map the upper half plane into the first quadrant (if $ngt1$). Under any such convention, the argument of $left({5over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/3}$ is less than $pi/6$, while the argument of $left({-3over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/2}$ is greater than $pi/4$, hence we do not have $(x+3)^{1/3}=(x-1)^{1/2}$ for $x={-1over2}+i{sqrt7over2}$ for those conventions.
Interesting, thanks. Does this mean that in complex analysis, the convention is for the argument of $z^{1/n}$ to be minimized in the $[0,2pi)$ interval?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:43
@user2661923, there is no such thing as "the" convention for $z^{1/n}$. But yes, that is one way to describe one convention.
– Barry Cipra
Nov 24 at 22:31
add a comment |
Clearly, $5$ is a solution.
$left|frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 13}$ and $left|frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 12}$ are respectively $(sqrt 8)^{frac 13}$ and $2^frac 12,$ so they are equal.
Thus the three cube roots of $;color{red}{a=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ and the two square roots of $;color{blue}{b=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ are located on the same $color{violet}{text{circle}}$ centered in $O,$ with radius $sqrt 2.$
Due to the relative position of cube/square roots of a complex number, there can be at most one common root. The picture [drawn with GeoGebra] whispers $color{violet}{w=-frac 12 - i frac{sqrt 7}{2}}.$
Since $w$ verifies $$w^2=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}quad text{and} quad w^3=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2},$$ it is solution of the given equation.
EDIT
One can proceed similarly with $color{red}{overline{a}}$ and $color{blue}{overline{b}}$ and conclude that $color{violet}{overline{w}}$ is a solution as well.
Conclusion
The set of solutions is $;{5, -frac{1}{2} pm ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}$}.
I just edited my question with an answer that disagrees with yours. Therefore, if your conclusion is correct, there must be a flaw in my analysis.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:08
You're right! I like your question even more :) I am going to edit my solution. The approach was right, but the conclusion (wrong) was based on the wrong starting point.
– user376343
Nov 24 at 18:34
@user2661923 Ordinarily, I would accept your answer, but Christian Blatter's answer is very slick, and I can only accept one answer. Two questions: 1. What graphing software did you use? and 2. Shouldn't there be 3 elements in your solution set, rather than 2? If the analysis in my answer is correct then all 3 candidates are actually solutions.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:01
add a comment |
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You want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that the set
$$(x+3)^{1/3}cap (x-1)^{1/2}subset{mathbb C}$$
is nonempty. In other words, you want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that there is an $uin{mathbb C}$ with
$$u^3=x+3,qquad u^2=x-1 .tag{1}$$
You already have established that necessarily $$xinleft{5,-{1over2}+i{sqrt{7}over2}, -{1over2}-i{sqrt{7}over2}right} .tag{2}$$ Now $(1)$ implies that, given $x$, the value of $u$ is determined by
$$u={u^3over u^2}={x+3over x-1} .tag{3}$$
The procedure is then clear: For each $x$ in the candidate list $(2)$ compute the corresponding $u$ by means of $(3)$; then check whether $u^2=x-1$. (This will automatically guarantee $u^3=x+3$ as well.) The candidates $x$ that pass this test can be considered as solutions to the original equation under the chosen interpretation.
nice elegant solution.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:02
add a comment |
You want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that the set
$$(x+3)^{1/3}cap (x-1)^{1/2}subset{mathbb C}$$
is nonempty. In other words, you want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that there is an $uin{mathbb C}$ with
$$u^3=x+3,qquad u^2=x-1 .tag{1}$$
You already have established that necessarily $$xinleft{5,-{1over2}+i{sqrt{7}over2}, -{1over2}-i{sqrt{7}over2}right} .tag{2}$$ Now $(1)$ implies that, given $x$, the value of $u$ is determined by
$$u={u^3over u^2}={x+3over x-1} .tag{3}$$
The procedure is then clear: For each $x$ in the candidate list $(2)$ compute the corresponding $u$ by means of $(3)$; then check whether $u^2=x-1$. (This will automatically guarantee $u^3=x+3$ as well.) The candidates $x$ that pass this test can be considered as solutions to the original equation under the chosen interpretation.
nice elegant solution.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:02
add a comment |
You want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that the set
$$(x+3)^{1/3}cap (x-1)^{1/2}subset{mathbb C}$$
is nonempty. In other words, you want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that there is an $uin{mathbb C}$ with
$$u^3=x+3,qquad u^2=x-1 .tag{1}$$
You already have established that necessarily $$xinleft{5,-{1over2}+i{sqrt{7}over2}, -{1over2}-i{sqrt{7}over2}right} .tag{2}$$ Now $(1)$ implies that, given $x$, the value of $u$ is determined by
$$u={u^3over u^2}={x+3over x-1} .tag{3}$$
The procedure is then clear: For each $x$ in the candidate list $(2)$ compute the corresponding $u$ by means of $(3)$; then check whether $u^2=x-1$. (This will automatically guarantee $u^3=x+3$ as well.) The candidates $x$ that pass this test can be considered as solutions to the original equation under the chosen interpretation.
You want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that the set
$$(x+3)^{1/3}cap (x-1)^{1/2}subset{mathbb C}$$
is nonempty. In other words, you want to find all $xin{mathbb C}$ such that there is an $uin{mathbb C}$ with
$$u^3=x+3,qquad u^2=x-1 .tag{1}$$
You already have established that necessarily $$xinleft{5,-{1over2}+i{sqrt{7}over2}, -{1over2}-i{sqrt{7}over2}right} .tag{2}$$ Now $(1)$ implies that, given $x$, the value of $u$ is determined by
$$u={u^3over u^2}={x+3over x-1} .tag{3}$$
The procedure is then clear: For each $x$ in the candidate list $(2)$ compute the corresponding $u$ by means of $(3)$; then check whether $u^2=x-1$. (This will automatically guarantee $u^3=x+3$ as well.) The candidates $x$ that pass this test can be considered as solutions to the original equation under the chosen interpretation.
edited Nov 26 at 8:16
answered Nov 24 at 19:16
Christian Blatter
172k7112325
172k7112325
nice elegant solution.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:02
add a comment |
nice elegant solution.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:02
nice elegant solution.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:02
nice elegant solution.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:02
add a comment |
The answer depends in part on the meaning you give to fractional powers of complex numbers. If you think of $z^{1/n}$ as any complex number whose $n$th power is $z$, then you can get $(x+3)^{1/3}$ to equal $(x-1)^{1/2}$ with $x=(-1pm isqrt7)/2$. But if you want $z^{1/n}$ to be a single-valued function, then the answer will depend on the convention you use for picking the $n$th root.
In particular, most $n$th-root conventions map the upper half plane into the first quadrant (if $ngt1$). Under any such convention, the argument of $left({5over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/3}$ is less than $pi/6$, while the argument of $left({-3over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/2}$ is greater than $pi/4$, hence we do not have $(x+3)^{1/3}=(x-1)^{1/2}$ for $x={-1over2}+i{sqrt7over2}$ for those conventions.
Interesting, thanks. Does this mean that in complex analysis, the convention is for the argument of $z^{1/n}$ to be minimized in the $[0,2pi)$ interval?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:43
@user2661923, there is no such thing as "the" convention for $z^{1/n}$. But yes, that is one way to describe one convention.
– Barry Cipra
Nov 24 at 22:31
add a comment |
The answer depends in part on the meaning you give to fractional powers of complex numbers. If you think of $z^{1/n}$ as any complex number whose $n$th power is $z$, then you can get $(x+3)^{1/3}$ to equal $(x-1)^{1/2}$ with $x=(-1pm isqrt7)/2$. But if you want $z^{1/n}$ to be a single-valued function, then the answer will depend on the convention you use for picking the $n$th root.
In particular, most $n$th-root conventions map the upper half plane into the first quadrant (if $ngt1$). Under any such convention, the argument of $left({5over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/3}$ is less than $pi/6$, while the argument of $left({-3over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/2}$ is greater than $pi/4$, hence we do not have $(x+3)^{1/3}=(x-1)^{1/2}$ for $x={-1over2}+i{sqrt7over2}$ for those conventions.
Interesting, thanks. Does this mean that in complex analysis, the convention is for the argument of $z^{1/n}$ to be minimized in the $[0,2pi)$ interval?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:43
@user2661923, there is no such thing as "the" convention for $z^{1/n}$. But yes, that is one way to describe one convention.
– Barry Cipra
Nov 24 at 22:31
add a comment |
The answer depends in part on the meaning you give to fractional powers of complex numbers. If you think of $z^{1/n}$ as any complex number whose $n$th power is $z$, then you can get $(x+3)^{1/3}$ to equal $(x-1)^{1/2}$ with $x=(-1pm isqrt7)/2$. But if you want $z^{1/n}$ to be a single-valued function, then the answer will depend on the convention you use for picking the $n$th root.
In particular, most $n$th-root conventions map the upper half plane into the first quadrant (if $ngt1$). Under any such convention, the argument of $left({5over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/3}$ is less than $pi/6$, while the argument of $left({-3over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/2}$ is greater than $pi/4$, hence we do not have $(x+3)^{1/3}=(x-1)^{1/2}$ for $x={-1over2}+i{sqrt7over2}$ for those conventions.
The answer depends in part on the meaning you give to fractional powers of complex numbers. If you think of $z^{1/n}$ as any complex number whose $n$th power is $z$, then you can get $(x+3)^{1/3}$ to equal $(x-1)^{1/2}$ with $x=(-1pm isqrt7)/2$. But if you want $z^{1/n}$ to be a single-valued function, then the answer will depend on the convention you use for picking the $n$th root.
In particular, most $n$th-root conventions map the upper half plane into the first quadrant (if $ngt1$). Under any such convention, the argument of $left({5over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/3}$ is less than $pi/6$, while the argument of $left({-3over2}+i{sqrt7over2} right)^{1/2}$ is greater than $pi/4$, hence we do not have $(x+3)^{1/3}=(x-1)^{1/2}$ for $x={-1over2}+i{sqrt7over2}$ for those conventions.
answered Nov 24 at 20:23
Barry Cipra
58.8k653123
58.8k653123
Interesting, thanks. Does this mean that in complex analysis, the convention is for the argument of $z^{1/n}$ to be minimized in the $[0,2pi)$ interval?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:43
@user2661923, there is no such thing as "the" convention for $z^{1/n}$. But yes, that is one way to describe one convention.
– Barry Cipra
Nov 24 at 22:31
add a comment |
Interesting, thanks. Does this mean that in complex analysis, the convention is for the argument of $z^{1/n}$ to be minimized in the $[0,2pi)$ interval?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:43
@user2661923, there is no such thing as "the" convention for $z^{1/n}$. But yes, that is one way to describe one convention.
– Barry Cipra
Nov 24 at 22:31
Interesting, thanks. Does this mean that in complex analysis, the convention is for the argument of $z^{1/n}$ to be minimized in the $[0,2pi)$ interval?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:43
Interesting, thanks. Does this mean that in complex analysis, the convention is for the argument of $z^{1/n}$ to be minimized in the $[0,2pi)$ interval?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:43
@user2661923, there is no such thing as "the" convention for $z^{1/n}$. But yes, that is one way to describe one convention.
– Barry Cipra
Nov 24 at 22:31
@user2661923, there is no such thing as "the" convention for $z^{1/n}$. But yes, that is one way to describe one convention.
– Barry Cipra
Nov 24 at 22:31
add a comment |
Clearly, $5$ is a solution.
$left|frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 13}$ and $left|frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 12}$ are respectively $(sqrt 8)^{frac 13}$ and $2^frac 12,$ so they are equal.
Thus the three cube roots of $;color{red}{a=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ and the two square roots of $;color{blue}{b=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ are located on the same $color{violet}{text{circle}}$ centered in $O,$ with radius $sqrt 2.$
Due to the relative position of cube/square roots of a complex number, there can be at most one common root. The picture [drawn with GeoGebra] whispers $color{violet}{w=-frac 12 - i frac{sqrt 7}{2}}.$
Since $w$ verifies $$w^2=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}quad text{and} quad w^3=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2},$$ it is solution of the given equation.
EDIT
One can proceed similarly with $color{red}{overline{a}}$ and $color{blue}{overline{b}}$ and conclude that $color{violet}{overline{w}}$ is a solution as well.
Conclusion
The set of solutions is $;{5, -frac{1}{2} pm ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}$}.
I just edited my question with an answer that disagrees with yours. Therefore, if your conclusion is correct, there must be a flaw in my analysis.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:08
You're right! I like your question even more :) I am going to edit my solution. The approach was right, but the conclusion (wrong) was based on the wrong starting point.
– user376343
Nov 24 at 18:34
@user2661923 Ordinarily, I would accept your answer, but Christian Blatter's answer is very slick, and I can only accept one answer. Two questions: 1. What graphing software did you use? and 2. Shouldn't there be 3 elements in your solution set, rather than 2? If the analysis in my answer is correct then all 3 candidates are actually solutions.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:01
add a comment |
Clearly, $5$ is a solution.
$left|frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 13}$ and $left|frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 12}$ are respectively $(sqrt 8)^{frac 13}$ and $2^frac 12,$ so they are equal.
Thus the three cube roots of $;color{red}{a=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ and the two square roots of $;color{blue}{b=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ are located on the same $color{violet}{text{circle}}$ centered in $O,$ with radius $sqrt 2.$
Due to the relative position of cube/square roots of a complex number, there can be at most one common root. The picture [drawn with GeoGebra] whispers $color{violet}{w=-frac 12 - i frac{sqrt 7}{2}}.$
Since $w$ verifies $$w^2=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}quad text{and} quad w^3=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2},$$ it is solution of the given equation.
EDIT
One can proceed similarly with $color{red}{overline{a}}$ and $color{blue}{overline{b}}$ and conclude that $color{violet}{overline{w}}$ is a solution as well.
Conclusion
The set of solutions is $;{5, -frac{1}{2} pm ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}$}.
I just edited my question with an answer that disagrees with yours. Therefore, if your conclusion is correct, there must be a flaw in my analysis.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:08
You're right! I like your question even more :) I am going to edit my solution. The approach was right, but the conclusion (wrong) was based on the wrong starting point.
– user376343
Nov 24 at 18:34
@user2661923 Ordinarily, I would accept your answer, but Christian Blatter's answer is very slick, and I can only accept one answer. Two questions: 1. What graphing software did you use? and 2. Shouldn't there be 3 elements in your solution set, rather than 2? If the analysis in my answer is correct then all 3 candidates are actually solutions.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:01
add a comment |
Clearly, $5$ is a solution.
$left|frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 13}$ and $left|frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 12}$ are respectively $(sqrt 8)^{frac 13}$ and $2^frac 12,$ so they are equal.
Thus the three cube roots of $;color{red}{a=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ and the two square roots of $;color{blue}{b=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ are located on the same $color{violet}{text{circle}}$ centered in $O,$ with radius $sqrt 2.$
Due to the relative position of cube/square roots of a complex number, there can be at most one common root. The picture [drawn with GeoGebra] whispers $color{violet}{w=-frac 12 - i frac{sqrt 7}{2}}.$
Since $w$ verifies $$w^2=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}quad text{and} quad w^3=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2},$$ it is solution of the given equation.
EDIT
One can proceed similarly with $color{red}{overline{a}}$ and $color{blue}{overline{b}}$ and conclude that $color{violet}{overline{w}}$ is a solution as well.
Conclusion
The set of solutions is $;{5, -frac{1}{2} pm ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}$}.
Clearly, $5$ is a solution.
$left|frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 13}$ and $left|frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}right|^{frac 12}$ are respectively $(sqrt 8)^{frac 13}$ and $2^frac 12,$ so they are equal.
Thus the three cube roots of $;color{red}{a=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ and the two square roots of $;color{blue}{b=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}};$ are located on the same $color{violet}{text{circle}}$ centered in $O,$ with radius $sqrt 2.$
Due to the relative position of cube/square roots of a complex number, there can be at most one common root. The picture [drawn with GeoGebra] whispers $color{violet}{w=-frac 12 - i frac{sqrt 7}{2}}.$
Since $w$ verifies $$w^2=frac{-3}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2}quad text{and} quad w^3=frac{5}{2} + ifrac{sqrt 7}{2},$$ it is solution of the given equation.
EDIT
One can proceed similarly with $color{red}{overline{a}}$ and $color{blue}{overline{b}}$ and conclude that $color{violet}{overline{w}}$ is a solution as well.
Conclusion
The set of solutions is $;{5, -frac{1}{2} pm ifrac{sqrt{7}}{2}$}.
edited Nov 24 at 20:38
answered Nov 24 at 15:27
user376343
2,7782822
2,7782822
I just edited my question with an answer that disagrees with yours. Therefore, if your conclusion is correct, there must be a flaw in my analysis.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:08
You're right! I like your question even more :) I am going to edit my solution. The approach was right, but the conclusion (wrong) was based on the wrong starting point.
– user376343
Nov 24 at 18:34
@user2661923 Ordinarily, I would accept your answer, but Christian Blatter's answer is very slick, and I can only accept one answer. Two questions: 1. What graphing software did you use? and 2. Shouldn't there be 3 elements in your solution set, rather than 2? If the analysis in my answer is correct then all 3 candidates are actually solutions.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:01
add a comment |
I just edited my question with an answer that disagrees with yours. Therefore, if your conclusion is correct, there must be a flaw in my analysis.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:08
You're right! I like your question even more :) I am going to edit my solution. The approach was right, but the conclusion (wrong) was based on the wrong starting point.
– user376343
Nov 24 at 18:34
@user2661923 Ordinarily, I would accept your answer, but Christian Blatter's answer is very slick, and I can only accept one answer. Two questions: 1. What graphing software did you use? and 2. Shouldn't there be 3 elements in your solution set, rather than 2? If the analysis in my answer is correct then all 3 candidates are actually solutions.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:01
I just edited my question with an answer that disagrees with yours. Therefore, if your conclusion is correct, there must be a flaw in my analysis.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:08
I just edited my question with an answer that disagrees with yours. Therefore, if your conclusion is correct, there must be a flaw in my analysis.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:08
You're right! I like your question even more :) I am going to edit my solution. The approach was right, but the conclusion (wrong) was based on the wrong starting point.
– user376343
Nov 24 at 18:34
You're right! I like your question even more :) I am going to edit my solution. The approach was right, but the conclusion (wrong) was based on the wrong starting point.
– user376343
Nov 24 at 18:34
@user2661923 Ordinarily, I would accept your answer, but Christian Blatter's answer is very slick, and I can only accept one answer. Two questions: 1. What graphing software did you use? and 2. Shouldn't there be 3 elements in your solution set, rather than 2? If the analysis in my answer is correct then all 3 candidates are actually solutions.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:01
@user2661923 Ordinarily, I would accept your answer, but Christian Blatter's answer is very slick, and I can only accept one answer. Two questions: 1. What graphing software did you use? and 2. Shouldn't there be 3 elements in your solution set, rather than 2? If the analysis in my answer is correct then all 3 candidates are actually solutions.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 20:01
add a comment |
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Are you sure you're supposed to consider the complex solutions?
– Joel Pereira
Nov 24 at 2:39
@JoelPereira Actually, I found the problem on a foreign language youtube, where I followed the math but couldn't understand what the teacher was saying. My impression is that the intent was to not consider complex solutions. However, I am regarding the intent as irrelevant. I intend that my question does focus on complex solutions. I understand that if $;(z_1)^n = z_2,;$ then so does $;(z_1epsilon)^n,;$ where $epsilon$ is any of the n roots of unity. What I am asking is how do professional mathematicians untangle this mess?
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 3:42
The question cannot be answered if you don't specify precisely what is meant by $z^{1/2}$ and $z^{1/3}$ in the complex. (Please don't answer square and cubic roots.)
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:09
@YvesDaoust agreed, but in the answer that I posted at the end of my question, I offer what I regard as a reasonable construance which resolves your issue.
– user2661923
Nov 24 at 17:11
This information belongs to the question, we shouldn't have to dig the answer.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 24 at 17:14