Is there any counterexample to show that $X,Y$ are two random variables and $E(Xmid Y)=E(X)$, but $X$ and $Y$...
$begingroup$
Is there any counterexample to show that $X,Y$ are two random variables and $E(Xmid Y)=E(X)$, but $X$ and $Y$ are not independent.
I already know that if $X,Y$ are independent, then $E(Xmid Y)=E(X)$.
probability probability-theory expectation conditional-expectation
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is there any counterexample to show that $X,Y$ are two random variables and $E(Xmid Y)=E(X)$, but $X$ and $Y$ are not independent.
I already know that if $X,Y$ are independent, then $E(Xmid Y)=E(X)$.
probability probability-theory expectation conditional-expectation
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Uncorrelated random varriables
$endgroup$
– Key Flex
Jun 11 '18 at 0:59
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is there any counterexample to show that $X,Y$ are two random variables and $E(Xmid Y)=E(X)$, but $X$ and $Y$ are not independent.
I already know that if $X,Y$ are independent, then $E(Xmid Y)=E(X)$.
probability probability-theory expectation conditional-expectation
$endgroup$
Is there any counterexample to show that $X,Y$ are two random variables and $E(Xmid Y)=E(X)$, but $X$ and $Y$ are not independent.
I already know that if $X,Y$ are independent, then $E(Xmid Y)=E(X)$.
probability probability-theory expectation conditional-expectation
probability probability-theory expectation conditional-expectation
edited Jun 11 '18 at 3:18
Michael Hardy
1
1
asked Jun 11 '18 at 0:53
NYRAHHHNYRAHHH
35629
35629
$begingroup$
Uncorrelated random varriables
$endgroup$
– Key Flex
Jun 11 '18 at 0:59
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Uncorrelated random varriables
$endgroup$
– Key Flex
Jun 11 '18 at 0:59
$begingroup$
Uncorrelated random varriables
$endgroup$
– Key Flex
Jun 11 '18 at 0:59
$begingroup$
Uncorrelated random varriables
$endgroup$
– Key Flex
Jun 11 '18 at 0:59
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
begin{align}
X & = begin{cases} -1 \ phantom{-}0 & text{each with probability } 1/3 \ +1 end{cases} \[10pt]
Y & = X^2
end{align}
Then $operatorname E(Xmid Y=0) = 0$ and $operatorname E(Xmid Y=1) = 0,$ so $operatorname E(Xmid Y) = 0$ with probability $1.$ But $X$ and $Y$ are very far from independent.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
This is also a simple example for 'uncorrelated does not imply independence'.
$endgroup$
– StubbornAtom
Jun 11 '18 at 5:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider a two-component mixture Gaussian model with
begin{align}
& X mid Y = 0 sim N(0, 1), \
& X mid Y = 1 sim N(0, 4), \
& P(Y = 0) = P(Y = 1) = 1/2.
end{align}
Clearly $E(X mid Y = 0) = E(X mid Y = 1) = E(X) = 0$. But $X$ and $Y$ are not independent. Because on one hand,
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0) = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0) P(Y = 0) = Phi(1) -
0.5.$$
On the other hand,
begin{align}
P(-1 leq X leq 1) & = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0)P(Y = 0) + P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 1)P(Y = 1) \
&= Phi(1) - 0.5 + Phi(0.5) - 0.5 = Phi(1) + Phi(0.5) - 1.
end{align}
Therefore
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1)P(Y = 0) = 0.5Phi(1) + 0.5Phi(0.5) - 0.5 neq P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0),$$
i.e., $X$ and $Y$ are not independent.
Per Clement's request, let me add more details to show that the random variable $E(X mid Y)$ is actually the constant $0$. In fact, as a random variable,
$Z(omega) = E[X|Y](omega)$ are constants on the the sets ${omega: Y(omega) = 1}$ and ${omega: Y(omega) = 0}$ (this is a general result holds for any conditional expectation of form $E[X | Y]$, see for example, Theorem 9.1.2. of A Course in Probability Theory). As the union of these two sets is the whole sample space $Omega$, it follows that $E[X mid Y] equiv 0$.
To avoid above technicalities which needs advanced probability theory, you may construct a discrete counterexample using the same idea. How about a $2$-by-$4$ table? The columns are possible values of $X$ while the rows are possible values of $Y$.
begin{array}{c|c c c c}
& -1 & 1 & -2 & 2 \
hline
0 & 1/4 & 1/4 & 0 & 0 \
1 & 0 & 0 & 1/4 & 1/4
end{array}
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
$E[Xmid Y]$ is a random variable, not a value, here (I.e., $E[X|Y=0]$ is not the thing the OP is asking about, even in terms of "type").
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:21
$begingroup$
Of course I know that. Under this model, $E(X | Y) = 0$ for all $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Zhanxiong
Jun 11 '18 at 1:22
$begingroup$
It may be worth writing it, then? Otherwise, it's not immediate the answer actually answers the question.
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:23
$begingroup$
Thank you. ${}{}$
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $X,Y$ have an uniform density over the diamond $(0,1),(1,0),(0,-1),(-1,0)$ - or over the unit circle.
Then $X,Y$ are not independent [*], but $E(X mid Y) = E(X )=0$
For another example, you could take the triangle $(-1,0),(0,1),(1,0)$. In this case $E(X mid Y) = E(X)$ but $E(Y mid X) ne E(Y)$
Notice BTW that $E(X mid Y) = E(X) implies E(X Y) = E(X)E(Y)$ (uncorrelated), but not the reverse.
[*] If the marginals have support over finite intervals, then the support of the joint density must be a rectangle for the variables to be independent. Put in other way, if for some point $f_{X,Y}(x_0,y_0)=0$ but $f_X(x_0)>0$ and $f_Y(y_0)>0$ then the variables cannot be independent.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2815227%2fis-there-any-counterexample-to-show-that-x-y-are-two-random-variables-and-ex%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
begin{align}
X & = begin{cases} -1 \ phantom{-}0 & text{each with probability } 1/3 \ +1 end{cases} \[10pt]
Y & = X^2
end{align}
Then $operatorname E(Xmid Y=0) = 0$ and $operatorname E(Xmid Y=1) = 0,$ so $operatorname E(Xmid Y) = 0$ with probability $1.$ But $X$ and $Y$ are very far from independent.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
This is also a simple example for 'uncorrelated does not imply independence'.
$endgroup$
– StubbornAtom
Jun 11 '18 at 5:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
begin{align}
X & = begin{cases} -1 \ phantom{-}0 & text{each with probability } 1/3 \ +1 end{cases} \[10pt]
Y & = X^2
end{align}
Then $operatorname E(Xmid Y=0) = 0$ and $operatorname E(Xmid Y=1) = 0,$ so $operatorname E(Xmid Y) = 0$ with probability $1.$ But $X$ and $Y$ are very far from independent.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
This is also a simple example for 'uncorrelated does not imply independence'.
$endgroup$
– StubbornAtom
Jun 11 '18 at 5:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
begin{align}
X & = begin{cases} -1 \ phantom{-}0 & text{each with probability } 1/3 \ +1 end{cases} \[10pt]
Y & = X^2
end{align}
Then $operatorname E(Xmid Y=0) = 0$ and $operatorname E(Xmid Y=1) = 0,$ so $operatorname E(Xmid Y) = 0$ with probability $1.$ But $X$ and $Y$ are very far from independent.
$endgroup$
begin{align}
X & = begin{cases} -1 \ phantom{-}0 & text{each with probability } 1/3 \ +1 end{cases} \[10pt]
Y & = X^2
end{align}
Then $operatorname E(Xmid Y=0) = 0$ and $operatorname E(Xmid Y=1) = 0,$ so $operatorname E(Xmid Y) = 0$ with probability $1.$ But $X$ and $Y$ are very far from independent.
edited Jun 11 '18 at 5:26
StubbornAtom
5,62411138
5,62411138
answered Jun 11 '18 at 3:24
Michael HardyMichael Hardy
1
1
2
$begingroup$
This is also a simple example for 'uncorrelated does not imply independence'.
$endgroup$
– StubbornAtom
Jun 11 '18 at 5:28
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
This is also a simple example for 'uncorrelated does not imply independence'.
$endgroup$
– StubbornAtom
Jun 11 '18 at 5:28
2
2
$begingroup$
This is also a simple example for 'uncorrelated does not imply independence'.
$endgroup$
– StubbornAtom
Jun 11 '18 at 5:28
$begingroup$
This is also a simple example for 'uncorrelated does not imply independence'.
$endgroup$
– StubbornAtom
Jun 11 '18 at 5:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider a two-component mixture Gaussian model with
begin{align}
& X mid Y = 0 sim N(0, 1), \
& X mid Y = 1 sim N(0, 4), \
& P(Y = 0) = P(Y = 1) = 1/2.
end{align}
Clearly $E(X mid Y = 0) = E(X mid Y = 1) = E(X) = 0$. But $X$ and $Y$ are not independent. Because on one hand,
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0) = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0) P(Y = 0) = Phi(1) -
0.5.$$
On the other hand,
begin{align}
P(-1 leq X leq 1) & = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0)P(Y = 0) + P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 1)P(Y = 1) \
&= Phi(1) - 0.5 + Phi(0.5) - 0.5 = Phi(1) + Phi(0.5) - 1.
end{align}
Therefore
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1)P(Y = 0) = 0.5Phi(1) + 0.5Phi(0.5) - 0.5 neq P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0),$$
i.e., $X$ and $Y$ are not independent.
Per Clement's request, let me add more details to show that the random variable $E(X mid Y)$ is actually the constant $0$. In fact, as a random variable,
$Z(omega) = E[X|Y](omega)$ are constants on the the sets ${omega: Y(omega) = 1}$ and ${omega: Y(omega) = 0}$ (this is a general result holds for any conditional expectation of form $E[X | Y]$, see for example, Theorem 9.1.2. of A Course in Probability Theory). As the union of these two sets is the whole sample space $Omega$, it follows that $E[X mid Y] equiv 0$.
To avoid above technicalities which needs advanced probability theory, you may construct a discrete counterexample using the same idea. How about a $2$-by-$4$ table? The columns are possible values of $X$ while the rows are possible values of $Y$.
begin{array}{c|c c c c}
& -1 & 1 & -2 & 2 \
hline
0 & 1/4 & 1/4 & 0 & 0 \
1 & 0 & 0 & 1/4 & 1/4
end{array}
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
$E[Xmid Y]$ is a random variable, not a value, here (I.e., $E[X|Y=0]$ is not the thing the OP is asking about, even in terms of "type").
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:21
$begingroup$
Of course I know that. Under this model, $E(X | Y) = 0$ for all $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Zhanxiong
Jun 11 '18 at 1:22
$begingroup$
It may be worth writing it, then? Otherwise, it's not immediate the answer actually answers the question.
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:23
$begingroup$
Thank you. ${}{}$
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider a two-component mixture Gaussian model with
begin{align}
& X mid Y = 0 sim N(0, 1), \
& X mid Y = 1 sim N(0, 4), \
& P(Y = 0) = P(Y = 1) = 1/2.
end{align}
Clearly $E(X mid Y = 0) = E(X mid Y = 1) = E(X) = 0$. But $X$ and $Y$ are not independent. Because on one hand,
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0) = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0) P(Y = 0) = Phi(1) -
0.5.$$
On the other hand,
begin{align}
P(-1 leq X leq 1) & = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0)P(Y = 0) + P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 1)P(Y = 1) \
&= Phi(1) - 0.5 + Phi(0.5) - 0.5 = Phi(1) + Phi(0.5) - 1.
end{align}
Therefore
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1)P(Y = 0) = 0.5Phi(1) + 0.5Phi(0.5) - 0.5 neq P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0),$$
i.e., $X$ and $Y$ are not independent.
Per Clement's request, let me add more details to show that the random variable $E(X mid Y)$ is actually the constant $0$. In fact, as a random variable,
$Z(omega) = E[X|Y](omega)$ are constants on the the sets ${omega: Y(omega) = 1}$ and ${omega: Y(omega) = 0}$ (this is a general result holds for any conditional expectation of form $E[X | Y]$, see for example, Theorem 9.1.2. of A Course in Probability Theory). As the union of these two sets is the whole sample space $Omega$, it follows that $E[X mid Y] equiv 0$.
To avoid above technicalities which needs advanced probability theory, you may construct a discrete counterexample using the same idea. How about a $2$-by-$4$ table? The columns are possible values of $X$ while the rows are possible values of $Y$.
begin{array}{c|c c c c}
& -1 & 1 & -2 & 2 \
hline
0 & 1/4 & 1/4 & 0 & 0 \
1 & 0 & 0 & 1/4 & 1/4
end{array}
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
$E[Xmid Y]$ is a random variable, not a value, here (I.e., $E[X|Y=0]$ is not the thing the OP is asking about, even in terms of "type").
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:21
$begingroup$
Of course I know that. Under this model, $E(X | Y) = 0$ for all $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Zhanxiong
Jun 11 '18 at 1:22
$begingroup$
It may be worth writing it, then? Otherwise, it's not immediate the answer actually answers the question.
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:23
$begingroup$
Thank you. ${}{}$
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider a two-component mixture Gaussian model with
begin{align}
& X mid Y = 0 sim N(0, 1), \
& X mid Y = 1 sim N(0, 4), \
& P(Y = 0) = P(Y = 1) = 1/2.
end{align}
Clearly $E(X mid Y = 0) = E(X mid Y = 1) = E(X) = 0$. But $X$ and $Y$ are not independent. Because on one hand,
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0) = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0) P(Y = 0) = Phi(1) -
0.5.$$
On the other hand,
begin{align}
P(-1 leq X leq 1) & = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0)P(Y = 0) + P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 1)P(Y = 1) \
&= Phi(1) - 0.5 + Phi(0.5) - 0.5 = Phi(1) + Phi(0.5) - 1.
end{align}
Therefore
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1)P(Y = 0) = 0.5Phi(1) + 0.5Phi(0.5) - 0.5 neq P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0),$$
i.e., $X$ and $Y$ are not independent.
Per Clement's request, let me add more details to show that the random variable $E(X mid Y)$ is actually the constant $0$. In fact, as a random variable,
$Z(omega) = E[X|Y](omega)$ are constants on the the sets ${omega: Y(omega) = 1}$ and ${omega: Y(omega) = 0}$ (this is a general result holds for any conditional expectation of form $E[X | Y]$, see for example, Theorem 9.1.2. of A Course in Probability Theory). As the union of these two sets is the whole sample space $Omega$, it follows that $E[X mid Y] equiv 0$.
To avoid above technicalities which needs advanced probability theory, you may construct a discrete counterexample using the same idea. How about a $2$-by-$4$ table? The columns are possible values of $X$ while the rows are possible values of $Y$.
begin{array}{c|c c c c}
& -1 & 1 & -2 & 2 \
hline
0 & 1/4 & 1/4 & 0 & 0 \
1 & 0 & 0 & 1/4 & 1/4
end{array}
$endgroup$
Consider a two-component mixture Gaussian model with
begin{align}
& X mid Y = 0 sim N(0, 1), \
& X mid Y = 1 sim N(0, 4), \
& P(Y = 0) = P(Y = 1) = 1/2.
end{align}
Clearly $E(X mid Y = 0) = E(X mid Y = 1) = E(X) = 0$. But $X$ and $Y$ are not independent. Because on one hand,
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0) = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0) P(Y = 0) = Phi(1) -
0.5.$$
On the other hand,
begin{align}
P(-1 leq X leq 1) & = P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 0)P(Y = 0) + P(-1 leq X leq 1 mid Y = 1)P(Y = 1) \
&= Phi(1) - 0.5 + Phi(0.5) - 0.5 = Phi(1) + Phi(0.5) - 1.
end{align}
Therefore
$$P(-1 leq X leq 1)P(Y = 0) = 0.5Phi(1) + 0.5Phi(0.5) - 0.5 neq P(-1 leq X leq 1, Y = 0),$$
i.e., $X$ and $Y$ are not independent.
Per Clement's request, let me add more details to show that the random variable $E(X mid Y)$ is actually the constant $0$. In fact, as a random variable,
$Z(omega) = E[X|Y](omega)$ are constants on the the sets ${omega: Y(omega) = 1}$ and ${omega: Y(omega) = 0}$ (this is a general result holds for any conditional expectation of form $E[X | Y]$, see for example, Theorem 9.1.2. of A Course in Probability Theory). As the union of these two sets is the whole sample space $Omega$, it follows that $E[X mid Y] equiv 0$.
To avoid above technicalities which needs advanced probability theory, you may construct a discrete counterexample using the same idea. How about a $2$-by-$4$ table? The columns are possible values of $X$ while the rows are possible values of $Y$.
begin{array}{c|c c c c}
& -1 & 1 & -2 & 2 \
hline
0 & 1/4 & 1/4 & 0 & 0 \
1 & 0 & 0 & 1/4 & 1/4
end{array}
edited Dec 5 '18 at 13:54
answered Jun 11 '18 at 1:19
ZhanxiongZhanxiong
8,83611031
8,83611031
$begingroup$
$E[Xmid Y]$ is a random variable, not a value, here (I.e., $E[X|Y=0]$ is not the thing the OP is asking about, even in terms of "type").
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:21
$begingroup$
Of course I know that. Under this model, $E(X | Y) = 0$ for all $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Zhanxiong
Jun 11 '18 at 1:22
$begingroup$
It may be worth writing it, then? Otherwise, it's not immediate the answer actually answers the question.
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:23
$begingroup$
Thank you. ${}{}$
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$E[Xmid Y]$ is a random variable, not a value, here (I.e., $E[X|Y=0]$ is not the thing the OP is asking about, even in terms of "type").
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:21
$begingroup$
Of course I know that. Under this model, $E(X | Y) = 0$ for all $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Zhanxiong
Jun 11 '18 at 1:22
$begingroup$
It may be worth writing it, then? Otherwise, it's not immediate the answer actually answers the question.
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:23
$begingroup$
Thank you. ${}{}$
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:40
$begingroup$
$E[Xmid Y]$ is a random variable, not a value, here (I.e., $E[X|Y=0]$ is not the thing the OP is asking about, even in terms of "type").
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:21
$begingroup$
$E[Xmid Y]$ is a random variable, not a value, here (I.e., $E[X|Y=0]$ is not the thing the OP is asking about, even in terms of "type").
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:21
$begingroup$
Of course I know that. Under this model, $E(X | Y) = 0$ for all $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Zhanxiong
Jun 11 '18 at 1:22
$begingroup$
Of course I know that. Under this model, $E(X | Y) = 0$ for all $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Zhanxiong
Jun 11 '18 at 1:22
$begingroup$
It may be worth writing it, then? Otherwise, it's not immediate the answer actually answers the question.
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:23
$begingroup$
It may be worth writing it, then? Otherwise, it's not immediate the answer actually answers the question.
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:23
$begingroup$
Thank you. ${}{}$
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:40
$begingroup$
Thank you. ${}{}$
$endgroup$
– Clement C.
Jun 11 '18 at 1:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $X,Y$ have an uniform density over the diamond $(0,1),(1,0),(0,-1),(-1,0)$ - or over the unit circle.
Then $X,Y$ are not independent [*], but $E(X mid Y) = E(X )=0$
For another example, you could take the triangle $(-1,0),(0,1),(1,0)$. In this case $E(X mid Y) = E(X)$ but $E(Y mid X) ne E(Y)$
Notice BTW that $E(X mid Y) = E(X) implies E(X Y) = E(X)E(Y)$ (uncorrelated), but not the reverse.
[*] If the marginals have support over finite intervals, then the support of the joint density must be a rectangle for the variables to be independent. Put in other way, if for some point $f_{X,Y}(x_0,y_0)=0$ but $f_X(x_0)>0$ and $f_Y(y_0)>0$ then the variables cannot be independent.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $X,Y$ have an uniform density over the diamond $(0,1),(1,0),(0,-1),(-1,0)$ - or over the unit circle.
Then $X,Y$ are not independent [*], but $E(X mid Y) = E(X )=0$
For another example, you could take the triangle $(-1,0),(0,1),(1,0)$. In this case $E(X mid Y) = E(X)$ but $E(Y mid X) ne E(Y)$
Notice BTW that $E(X mid Y) = E(X) implies E(X Y) = E(X)E(Y)$ (uncorrelated), but not the reverse.
[*] If the marginals have support over finite intervals, then the support of the joint density must be a rectangle for the variables to be independent. Put in other way, if for some point $f_{X,Y}(x_0,y_0)=0$ but $f_X(x_0)>0$ and $f_Y(y_0)>0$ then the variables cannot be independent.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $X,Y$ have an uniform density over the diamond $(0,1),(1,0),(0,-1),(-1,0)$ - or over the unit circle.
Then $X,Y$ are not independent [*], but $E(X mid Y) = E(X )=0$
For another example, you could take the triangle $(-1,0),(0,1),(1,0)$. In this case $E(X mid Y) = E(X)$ but $E(Y mid X) ne E(Y)$
Notice BTW that $E(X mid Y) = E(X) implies E(X Y) = E(X)E(Y)$ (uncorrelated), but not the reverse.
[*] If the marginals have support over finite intervals, then the support of the joint density must be a rectangle for the variables to be independent. Put in other way, if for some point $f_{X,Y}(x_0,y_0)=0$ but $f_X(x_0)>0$ and $f_Y(y_0)>0$ then the variables cannot be independent.
$endgroup$
Let $X,Y$ have an uniform density over the diamond $(0,1),(1,0),(0,-1),(-1,0)$ - or over the unit circle.
Then $X,Y$ are not independent [*], but $E(X mid Y) = E(X )=0$
For another example, you could take the triangle $(-1,0),(0,1),(1,0)$. In this case $E(X mid Y) = E(X)$ but $E(Y mid X) ne E(Y)$
Notice BTW that $E(X mid Y) = E(X) implies E(X Y) = E(X)E(Y)$ (uncorrelated), but not the reverse.
[*] If the marginals have support over finite intervals, then the support of the joint density must be a rectangle for the variables to be independent. Put in other way, if for some point $f_{X,Y}(x_0,y_0)=0$ but $f_X(x_0)>0$ and $f_Y(y_0)>0$ then the variables cannot be independent.
edited Jun 11 '18 at 3:19
triple_sec
15.8k21852
15.8k21852
answered Jun 11 '18 at 1:43
leonbloyleonbloy
40.6k645107
40.6k645107
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2815227%2fis-there-any-counterexample-to-show-that-x-y-are-two-random-variables-and-ex%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
Uncorrelated random varriables
$endgroup$
– Key Flex
Jun 11 '18 at 0:59