Combinatorics: Number of permutations from $1$ to $60$, with cyclic permutation of length $l > 30$











up vote
1
down vote

favorite












In a game, $60$ kids have the chance to win presents. The organiser gives every kid a number between $1$ and $60$, so that all kids have different numbers. In a room, there is a cupboard with $60$ drawers.



Now the organiser randomly puts the number of exactly $1$ kid into each of the drawers and closes them afterwards.



The kids enter the room sequentially. Every kid is allowed to to open $30$ drawers in a random order and has to close them with its content afterwards.



If all kids find their numbers in their drawers, then every kid gets a present. If not, nobody gets any present.



Before the first kid enters the room, all kids can talk to each other, after that, they are not allowed to do anymore.



a) How can one find out the number of permutations from $1$ to $60$, which have a cyclic permutation of length $l > 30$?



b) How can one use a) to develop a strategy for the kids, so that all kids get a present with the probability of $1-H_{60}-H_{30}$?



$H_n$ is the n-th harmonic number with $H_n = sum_{k=1}^n frac{1}{k}$



So to structure this a bit:





  • $60$ kids

  • numbers $1,..,60$

  • drawers $1,..,60$

  • every kid opens $30$ drawers


I know that the notation for cyclic permutation goes as following:



For $n in mathbb{N}$ and different numbers $i_1,i_2,...,i_k in [n]$ the cycle $(i_1,i_2,...,i_k)$ denotes the permutation $pi in S_n$ with



enter image description here



I'm pretty new to combinatorics, so I don't know how to find out the number of permutations from $1$ to $60$, which have a cyclic permutation of length $l > 30$...










share|cite|improve this question
























  • There are $30$ kids and $60$ drawers, and he puts the number of exactly one kid in each drawer. Is each kid's number used twice, then?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 16 at 16:32










  • @saulspatz My bad, got lost in all these numbers. Edited.
    – user616397
    Nov 16 at 16:35






  • 2




    see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_prisoners_problem
    – implicit lee
    Nov 16 at 17:41















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












In a game, $60$ kids have the chance to win presents. The organiser gives every kid a number between $1$ and $60$, so that all kids have different numbers. In a room, there is a cupboard with $60$ drawers.



Now the organiser randomly puts the number of exactly $1$ kid into each of the drawers and closes them afterwards.



The kids enter the room sequentially. Every kid is allowed to to open $30$ drawers in a random order and has to close them with its content afterwards.



If all kids find their numbers in their drawers, then every kid gets a present. If not, nobody gets any present.



Before the first kid enters the room, all kids can talk to each other, after that, they are not allowed to do anymore.



a) How can one find out the number of permutations from $1$ to $60$, which have a cyclic permutation of length $l > 30$?



b) How can one use a) to develop a strategy for the kids, so that all kids get a present with the probability of $1-H_{60}-H_{30}$?



$H_n$ is the n-th harmonic number with $H_n = sum_{k=1}^n frac{1}{k}$



So to structure this a bit:





  • $60$ kids

  • numbers $1,..,60$

  • drawers $1,..,60$

  • every kid opens $30$ drawers


I know that the notation for cyclic permutation goes as following:



For $n in mathbb{N}$ and different numbers $i_1,i_2,...,i_k in [n]$ the cycle $(i_1,i_2,...,i_k)$ denotes the permutation $pi in S_n$ with



enter image description here



I'm pretty new to combinatorics, so I don't know how to find out the number of permutations from $1$ to $60$, which have a cyclic permutation of length $l > 30$...










share|cite|improve this question
























  • There are $30$ kids and $60$ drawers, and he puts the number of exactly one kid in each drawer. Is each kid's number used twice, then?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 16 at 16:32










  • @saulspatz My bad, got lost in all these numbers. Edited.
    – user616397
    Nov 16 at 16:35






  • 2




    see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_prisoners_problem
    – implicit lee
    Nov 16 at 17:41













up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











In a game, $60$ kids have the chance to win presents. The organiser gives every kid a number between $1$ and $60$, so that all kids have different numbers. In a room, there is a cupboard with $60$ drawers.



Now the organiser randomly puts the number of exactly $1$ kid into each of the drawers and closes them afterwards.



The kids enter the room sequentially. Every kid is allowed to to open $30$ drawers in a random order and has to close them with its content afterwards.



If all kids find their numbers in their drawers, then every kid gets a present. If not, nobody gets any present.



Before the first kid enters the room, all kids can talk to each other, after that, they are not allowed to do anymore.



a) How can one find out the number of permutations from $1$ to $60$, which have a cyclic permutation of length $l > 30$?



b) How can one use a) to develop a strategy for the kids, so that all kids get a present with the probability of $1-H_{60}-H_{30}$?



$H_n$ is the n-th harmonic number with $H_n = sum_{k=1}^n frac{1}{k}$



So to structure this a bit:





  • $60$ kids

  • numbers $1,..,60$

  • drawers $1,..,60$

  • every kid opens $30$ drawers


I know that the notation for cyclic permutation goes as following:



For $n in mathbb{N}$ and different numbers $i_1,i_2,...,i_k in [n]$ the cycle $(i_1,i_2,...,i_k)$ denotes the permutation $pi in S_n$ with



enter image description here



I'm pretty new to combinatorics, so I don't know how to find out the number of permutations from $1$ to $60$, which have a cyclic permutation of length $l > 30$...










share|cite|improve this question















In a game, $60$ kids have the chance to win presents. The organiser gives every kid a number between $1$ and $60$, so that all kids have different numbers. In a room, there is a cupboard with $60$ drawers.



Now the organiser randomly puts the number of exactly $1$ kid into each of the drawers and closes them afterwards.



The kids enter the room sequentially. Every kid is allowed to to open $30$ drawers in a random order and has to close them with its content afterwards.



If all kids find their numbers in their drawers, then every kid gets a present. If not, nobody gets any present.



Before the first kid enters the room, all kids can talk to each other, after that, they are not allowed to do anymore.



a) How can one find out the number of permutations from $1$ to $60$, which have a cyclic permutation of length $l > 30$?



b) How can one use a) to develop a strategy for the kids, so that all kids get a present with the probability of $1-H_{60}-H_{30}$?



$H_n$ is the n-th harmonic number with $H_n = sum_{k=1}^n frac{1}{k}$



So to structure this a bit:





  • $60$ kids

  • numbers $1,..,60$

  • drawers $1,..,60$

  • every kid opens $30$ drawers


I know that the notation for cyclic permutation goes as following:



For $n in mathbb{N}$ and different numbers $i_1,i_2,...,i_k in [n]$ the cycle $(i_1,i_2,...,i_k)$ denotes the permutation $pi in S_n$ with



enter image description here



I'm pretty new to combinatorics, so I don't know how to find out the number of permutations from $1$ to $60$, which have a cyclic permutation of length $l > 30$...







probability combinatorics harmonic-numbers permutation-cycles






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 16 at 16:33

























asked Nov 16 at 16:22







user616397



















  • There are $30$ kids and $60$ drawers, and he puts the number of exactly one kid in each drawer. Is each kid's number used twice, then?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 16 at 16:32










  • @saulspatz My bad, got lost in all these numbers. Edited.
    – user616397
    Nov 16 at 16:35






  • 2




    see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_prisoners_problem
    – implicit lee
    Nov 16 at 17:41


















  • There are $30$ kids and $60$ drawers, and he puts the number of exactly one kid in each drawer. Is each kid's number used twice, then?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 16 at 16:32










  • @saulspatz My bad, got lost in all these numbers. Edited.
    – user616397
    Nov 16 at 16:35






  • 2




    see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_prisoners_problem
    – implicit lee
    Nov 16 at 17:41
















There are $30$ kids and $60$ drawers, and he puts the number of exactly one kid in each drawer. Is each kid's number used twice, then?
– saulspatz
Nov 16 at 16:32




There are $30$ kids and $60$ drawers, and he puts the number of exactly one kid in each drawer. Is each kid's number used twice, then?
– saulspatz
Nov 16 at 16:32












@saulspatz My bad, got lost in all these numbers. Edited.
– user616397
Nov 16 at 16:35




@saulspatz My bad, got lost in all these numbers. Edited.
– user616397
Nov 16 at 16:35




2




2




see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_prisoners_problem
– implicit lee
Nov 16 at 17:41




see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_prisoners_problem
– implicit lee
Nov 16 at 17:41










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote













I'm summarizing the Wikipedia article mentioned in the comments.



Disjoint Cycle Notation



Any permutation $pi$ can be decomposed in the composition of disjoint cycles, where
$$pi = (mathrm{cycle 1})(mathrm{cycle 2})...$$



For example, the permutation $pi(1)=3$, $pi(2)=4$, $pi(3)=1$,$pi(4)=2$ can be written as
$$pi = (1,3)(2,4)$$



Note that $pi=(3,1)(2,4)=(3,1)(4,2)=(1,3)(4,2)$ are equivalent.



Counting the permutations



Now we find the number of permutations of $Z_60$ which have a cycle of length greater than 30.



First we note that a permutation can only have one such cycle (since cycles are disjoint). We define $l$ to be the length of this cycle. Then we note that two such permutations ($l > 30$) are different if the lengths of their largest cycle are different. So we can say that the number of permutations with $l>30$ is equal to
$$sum_{k=31}^{60}{n_k}$$
where $n_k$ is the number of permutations with $l=k$.



Now we just need to calculate $n_l$. We know that there are $60choose{l}$ possible ways to choose the values of the largest cycle, and there are $frac{l!}{l} = (l-1)!$ ways to order the values in the notation to produce a different cycle (the position of the first element is a free choice, but after that the representation is determined, so there are $l$ ways to write the same cycle). For the values not in the main cycle, there are $(60-l)!$ different permutations. Therefore,
$$n_l = {60 choose l} (l-1)! (60-l)! = frac {60!} l$$



Now we just directly sum the $n_l$ to find the number $n$ of such permutations.



$$n = 60! (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60})$$



Probability



We know there are $60!$ permutations in total so the probability a randomly selected permutation has a cycle of length greater than 30 is



$$n/60! = (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60}) approx 0.68488$$



Therefore the probability a permutation has no cycle of length greater than 30 is $$1-0.68488 approx 0.31512$$






share|cite|improve this answer





















    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    });
    });
    }, "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function() {
    var channelOptions = {
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "69"
    };
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
    createEditor();
    });
    }
    else {
    createEditor();
    }
    });

    function createEditor() {
    StackExchange.prepareEditor({
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    convertImagesToLinks: true,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: 10,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader: {
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    },
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    });


    }
    });














     

    draft saved


    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function () {
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3001336%2fcombinatorics-number-of-permutations-from-1-to-60-with-cyclic-permutation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
    }
    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown
























    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes








    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    1
    down vote













    I'm summarizing the Wikipedia article mentioned in the comments.



    Disjoint Cycle Notation



    Any permutation $pi$ can be decomposed in the composition of disjoint cycles, where
    $$pi = (mathrm{cycle 1})(mathrm{cycle 2})...$$



    For example, the permutation $pi(1)=3$, $pi(2)=4$, $pi(3)=1$,$pi(4)=2$ can be written as
    $$pi = (1,3)(2,4)$$



    Note that $pi=(3,1)(2,4)=(3,1)(4,2)=(1,3)(4,2)$ are equivalent.



    Counting the permutations



    Now we find the number of permutations of $Z_60$ which have a cycle of length greater than 30.



    First we note that a permutation can only have one such cycle (since cycles are disjoint). We define $l$ to be the length of this cycle. Then we note that two such permutations ($l > 30$) are different if the lengths of their largest cycle are different. So we can say that the number of permutations with $l>30$ is equal to
    $$sum_{k=31}^{60}{n_k}$$
    where $n_k$ is the number of permutations with $l=k$.



    Now we just need to calculate $n_l$. We know that there are $60choose{l}$ possible ways to choose the values of the largest cycle, and there are $frac{l!}{l} = (l-1)!$ ways to order the values in the notation to produce a different cycle (the position of the first element is a free choice, but after that the representation is determined, so there are $l$ ways to write the same cycle). For the values not in the main cycle, there are $(60-l)!$ different permutations. Therefore,
    $$n_l = {60 choose l} (l-1)! (60-l)! = frac {60!} l$$



    Now we just directly sum the $n_l$ to find the number $n$ of such permutations.



    $$n = 60! (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60})$$



    Probability



    We know there are $60!$ permutations in total so the probability a randomly selected permutation has a cycle of length greater than 30 is



    $$n/60! = (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60}) approx 0.68488$$



    Therefore the probability a permutation has no cycle of length greater than 30 is $$1-0.68488 approx 0.31512$$






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      I'm summarizing the Wikipedia article mentioned in the comments.



      Disjoint Cycle Notation



      Any permutation $pi$ can be decomposed in the composition of disjoint cycles, where
      $$pi = (mathrm{cycle 1})(mathrm{cycle 2})...$$



      For example, the permutation $pi(1)=3$, $pi(2)=4$, $pi(3)=1$,$pi(4)=2$ can be written as
      $$pi = (1,3)(2,4)$$



      Note that $pi=(3,1)(2,4)=(3,1)(4,2)=(1,3)(4,2)$ are equivalent.



      Counting the permutations



      Now we find the number of permutations of $Z_60$ which have a cycle of length greater than 30.



      First we note that a permutation can only have one such cycle (since cycles are disjoint). We define $l$ to be the length of this cycle. Then we note that two such permutations ($l > 30$) are different if the lengths of their largest cycle are different. So we can say that the number of permutations with $l>30$ is equal to
      $$sum_{k=31}^{60}{n_k}$$
      where $n_k$ is the number of permutations with $l=k$.



      Now we just need to calculate $n_l$. We know that there are $60choose{l}$ possible ways to choose the values of the largest cycle, and there are $frac{l!}{l} = (l-1)!$ ways to order the values in the notation to produce a different cycle (the position of the first element is a free choice, but after that the representation is determined, so there are $l$ ways to write the same cycle). For the values not in the main cycle, there are $(60-l)!$ different permutations. Therefore,
      $$n_l = {60 choose l} (l-1)! (60-l)! = frac {60!} l$$



      Now we just directly sum the $n_l$ to find the number $n$ of such permutations.



      $$n = 60! (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60})$$



      Probability



      We know there are $60!$ permutations in total so the probability a randomly selected permutation has a cycle of length greater than 30 is



      $$n/60! = (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60}) approx 0.68488$$



      Therefore the probability a permutation has no cycle of length greater than 30 is $$1-0.68488 approx 0.31512$$






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        1
        down vote










        up vote
        1
        down vote









        I'm summarizing the Wikipedia article mentioned in the comments.



        Disjoint Cycle Notation



        Any permutation $pi$ can be decomposed in the composition of disjoint cycles, where
        $$pi = (mathrm{cycle 1})(mathrm{cycle 2})...$$



        For example, the permutation $pi(1)=3$, $pi(2)=4$, $pi(3)=1$,$pi(4)=2$ can be written as
        $$pi = (1,3)(2,4)$$



        Note that $pi=(3,1)(2,4)=(3,1)(4,2)=(1,3)(4,2)$ are equivalent.



        Counting the permutations



        Now we find the number of permutations of $Z_60$ which have a cycle of length greater than 30.



        First we note that a permutation can only have one such cycle (since cycles are disjoint). We define $l$ to be the length of this cycle. Then we note that two such permutations ($l > 30$) are different if the lengths of their largest cycle are different. So we can say that the number of permutations with $l>30$ is equal to
        $$sum_{k=31}^{60}{n_k}$$
        where $n_k$ is the number of permutations with $l=k$.



        Now we just need to calculate $n_l$. We know that there are $60choose{l}$ possible ways to choose the values of the largest cycle, and there are $frac{l!}{l} = (l-1)!$ ways to order the values in the notation to produce a different cycle (the position of the first element is a free choice, but after that the representation is determined, so there are $l$ ways to write the same cycle). For the values not in the main cycle, there are $(60-l)!$ different permutations. Therefore,
        $$n_l = {60 choose l} (l-1)! (60-l)! = frac {60!} l$$



        Now we just directly sum the $n_l$ to find the number $n$ of such permutations.



        $$n = 60! (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60})$$



        Probability



        We know there are $60!$ permutations in total so the probability a randomly selected permutation has a cycle of length greater than 30 is



        $$n/60! = (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60}) approx 0.68488$$



        Therefore the probability a permutation has no cycle of length greater than 30 is $$1-0.68488 approx 0.31512$$






        share|cite|improve this answer












        I'm summarizing the Wikipedia article mentioned in the comments.



        Disjoint Cycle Notation



        Any permutation $pi$ can be decomposed in the composition of disjoint cycles, where
        $$pi = (mathrm{cycle 1})(mathrm{cycle 2})...$$



        For example, the permutation $pi(1)=3$, $pi(2)=4$, $pi(3)=1$,$pi(4)=2$ can be written as
        $$pi = (1,3)(2,4)$$



        Note that $pi=(3,1)(2,4)=(3,1)(4,2)=(1,3)(4,2)$ are equivalent.



        Counting the permutations



        Now we find the number of permutations of $Z_60$ which have a cycle of length greater than 30.



        First we note that a permutation can only have one such cycle (since cycles are disjoint). We define $l$ to be the length of this cycle. Then we note that two such permutations ($l > 30$) are different if the lengths of their largest cycle are different. So we can say that the number of permutations with $l>30$ is equal to
        $$sum_{k=31}^{60}{n_k}$$
        where $n_k$ is the number of permutations with $l=k$.



        Now we just need to calculate $n_l$. We know that there are $60choose{l}$ possible ways to choose the values of the largest cycle, and there are $frac{l!}{l} = (l-1)!$ ways to order the values in the notation to produce a different cycle (the position of the first element is a free choice, but after that the representation is determined, so there are $l$ ways to write the same cycle). For the values not in the main cycle, there are $(60-l)!$ different permutations. Therefore,
        $$n_l = {60 choose l} (l-1)! (60-l)! = frac {60!} l$$



        Now we just directly sum the $n_l$ to find the number $n$ of such permutations.



        $$n = 60! (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60})$$



        Probability



        We know there are $60!$ permutations in total so the probability a randomly selected permutation has a cycle of length greater than 30 is



        $$n/60! = (frac 1 {31} + ... frac 1 {60}) approx 0.68488$$



        Therefore the probability a permutation has no cycle of length greater than 30 is $$1-0.68488 approx 0.31512$$







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Nov 17 at 10:01









        helper

        523212




        523212






























             

            draft saved


            draft discarded



















































             


            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3001336%2fcombinatorics-number-of-permutations-from-1-to-60-with-cyclic-permutation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Ellipse (mathématiques)

            Quarter-circle Tiles

            Mont Emei