Is IKEA frozen salmon safe to eat raw in sushi?





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I was wondering if IKEA's frozen salmon was safe to be eaten raw in a home cooking environment? It's farmed which is a plus from what I've read, but I couldn't really find any data on their freezing process (except their little note about customer storing conditions that says it should be kept at -18°C or bellow).










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  • 4




    You may want to tweak your question title to make it a bit less ambiguous – I read the title and was wondering when IKEA started selling frozen salmon sushi.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    2 days ago






  • 4




    I personally don't trust sushi that isn't prepared by a Japan-trained (not just "Asian-looking") sushi chef, and I certainly never buy so-called "sushi-grade" fish to prepare at home. There is way more to sushi safety than people realize.
    – Robusto
    2 days ago












  • This may vary by country, as they probably don't use the same supplier for the whole world, so you might want to edit the question to be more specific about which Ikea.
    – Peter Taylor
    yesterday










  • Did you want to know if it's safe to eat after being defrosted?
    – Matthew E Cornish
    yesterday






  • 2




    @Robusto - I'm curious about your "There is way more to sushi safety than people realize" comment, and it seems too broad to address in comments here, so I asked it as a question: How to make safe sushi
    – Johnny
    yesterday

















up vote
20
down vote

favorite
3












I was wondering if IKEA's frozen salmon was safe to be eaten raw in a home cooking environment? It's farmed which is a plus from what I've read, but I couldn't really find any data on their freezing process (except their little note about customer storing conditions that says it should be kept at -18°C or bellow).










share|improve this question









New contributor




kiwibg is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 4




    You may want to tweak your question title to make it a bit less ambiguous – I read the title and was wondering when IKEA started selling frozen salmon sushi.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    2 days ago






  • 4




    I personally don't trust sushi that isn't prepared by a Japan-trained (not just "Asian-looking") sushi chef, and I certainly never buy so-called "sushi-grade" fish to prepare at home. There is way more to sushi safety than people realize.
    – Robusto
    2 days ago












  • This may vary by country, as they probably don't use the same supplier for the whole world, so you might want to edit the question to be more specific about which Ikea.
    – Peter Taylor
    yesterday










  • Did you want to know if it's safe to eat after being defrosted?
    – Matthew E Cornish
    yesterday






  • 2




    @Robusto - I'm curious about your "There is way more to sushi safety than people realize" comment, and it seems too broad to address in comments here, so I asked it as a question: How to make safe sushi
    – Johnny
    yesterday













up vote
20
down vote

favorite
3









up vote
20
down vote

favorite
3






3





I was wondering if IKEA's frozen salmon was safe to be eaten raw in a home cooking environment? It's farmed which is a plus from what I've read, but I couldn't really find any data on their freezing process (except their little note about customer storing conditions that says it should be kept at -18°C or bellow).










share|improve this question









New contributor




kiwibg is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I was wondering if IKEA's frozen salmon was safe to be eaten raw in a home cooking environment? It's farmed which is a plus from what I've read, but I couldn't really find any data on their freezing process (except their little note about customer storing conditions that says it should be kept at -18°C or bellow).







food-safety fish sushi raw






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edited 2 days ago









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  • 4




    You may want to tweak your question title to make it a bit less ambiguous – I read the title and was wondering when IKEA started selling frozen salmon sushi.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    2 days ago






  • 4




    I personally don't trust sushi that isn't prepared by a Japan-trained (not just "Asian-looking") sushi chef, and I certainly never buy so-called "sushi-grade" fish to prepare at home. There is way more to sushi safety than people realize.
    – Robusto
    2 days ago












  • This may vary by country, as they probably don't use the same supplier for the whole world, so you might want to edit the question to be more specific about which Ikea.
    – Peter Taylor
    yesterday










  • Did you want to know if it's safe to eat after being defrosted?
    – Matthew E Cornish
    yesterday






  • 2




    @Robusto - I'm curious about your "There is way more to sushi safety than people realize" comment, and it seems too broad to address in comments here, so I asked it as a question: How to make safe sushi
    – Johnny
    yesterday














  • 4




    You may want to tweak your question title to make it a bit less ambiguous – I read the title and was wondering when IKEA started selling frozen salmon sushi.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    2 days ago






  • 4




    I personally don't trust sushi that isn't prepared by a Japan-trained (not just "Asian-looking") sushi chef, and I certainly never buy so-called "sushi-grade" fish to prepare at home. There is way more to sushi safety than people realize.
    – Robusto
    2 days ago












  • This may vary by country, as they probably don't use the same supplier for the whole world, so you might want to edit the question to be more specific about which Ikea.
    – Peter Taylor
    yesterday










  • Did you want to know if it's safe to eat after being defrosted?
    – Matthew E Cornish
    yesterday






  • 2




    @Robusto - I'm curious about your "There is way more to sushi safety than people realize" comment, and it seems too broad to address in comments here, so I asked it as a question: How to make safe sushi
    – Johnny
    yesterday








4




4




You may want to tweak your question title to make it a bit less ambiguous – I read the title and was wondering when IKEA started selling frozen salmon sushi.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago




You may want to tweak your question title to make it a bit less ambiguous – I read the title and was wondering when IKEA started selling frozen salmon sushi.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago




4




4




I personally don't trust sushi that isn't prepared by a Japan-trained (not just "Asian-looking") sushi chef, and I certainly never buy so-called "sushi-grade" fish to prepare at home. There is way more to sushi safety than people realize.
– Robusto
2 days ago






I personally don't trust sushi that isn't prepared by a Japan-trained (not just "Asian-looking") sushi chef, and I certainly never buy so-called "sushi-grade" fish to prepare at home. There is way more to sushi safety than people realize.
– Robusto
2 days ago














This may vary by country, as they probably don't use the same supplier for the whole world, so you might want to edit the question to be more specific about which Ikea.
– Peter Taylor
yesterday




This may vary by country, as they probably don't use the same supplier for the whole world, so you might want to edit the question to be more specific about which Ikea.
– Peter Taylor
yesterday












Did you want to know if it's safe to eat after being defrosted?
– Matthew E Cornish
yesterday




Did you want to know if it's safe to eat after being defrosted?
– Matthew E Cornish
yesterday




2




2




@Robusto - I'm curious about your "There is way more to sushi safety than people realize" comment, and it seems too broad to address in comments here, so I asked it as a question: How to make safe sushi
– Johnny
yesterday




@Robusto - I'm curious about your "There is way more to sushi safety than people realize" comment, and it seems too broad to address in comments here, so I asked it as a question: How to make safe sushi
– Johnny
yesterday










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
41
down vote













Unless if it's labelled "sushi-grade" or "sashimi-grade", they probably don't freeze it deeply enough, so I wouldn't recommend it as-is. This is because of Salmon's high risk of parasites. However, you can turn it into sushi-grade fish if you have a freezer that reaches -20°C, and don't mind waiting.



Here in British Columbia, the government has Sushi Safety guidelines (as there are a huge number of sushi restaurants here) which instructs to use one of the following methods to destroy parasites in raw fish (except for Tuna, in which freezing is not required) when served in restaurants;




  • Store frozen at -20°C or below for 7 days

  • Store frozen at -35°C or below for 15 hours

  • Store it at -35°C until solid, and then keep it at -20° or below for 24 hours.
    Actually, it may be better to read Manitoba's version of this document, as it gives clearer instructions for the same process.


After the fish has gone through this "sushi-grade" process, it is safe to store it at -18° before eating it raw. This is the most common temperature for household freezers, and probably grocery store freezers.



Disclosure: I have never done this process myself. However, I have never gotten sick from eating sushi in Vancouver, where they are supposedly following these guidelines. I have occasionally heard of others getting sick for a day (allegedly) from sushi, though this may just be because the restaurant (or fish distributor) made a mistake.



Update: It appears that the terms "sushi-grade" & "sashimi-grade" are not regulated by either US or Canadian law, and probably not in the UK either.



It appears the EU laws are more liberal, only requiring 24 hours at -20° for wild salmon, and don't require any freezing for Scottish-farmed Atlantic salmon (due to low risk of parasites). The salmon at Ikea is probably farmed Atlantic, so it might actually qualify (so much for everything that I wrote), though I'm not certain. I unfortunately don't have any research data, so I'm just going by law.



For alternatives, you can go with tuna, which is rather low-risk even without the deep-freezing, which is often not required by law. If you don't mind being less traditional, you can also use smoked salmon or sous-vide salmon.






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  • 15




    Worth pointing out that the "sushi grade" label is completely unregulated, it doesn't indicate any uniform method of preparation or level of safety. Stores do have a vested interest in keeping you safe, so "sushi grade" fish likely is less likely to make you ill when eaten raw, but it's incorrect to assume that all "sushi grade" fish has gone through the same "sushi grade process".
    – Nuclear Wang
    2 days ago






  • 6




    Manitoba's version of the document probably just says to put the fish out in the snow for a day. -40C is just another day in the life there...
    – J...
    2 days ago








  • 2




    I try to believe the things said here, and there are links to official guidelines. But this is the first time ever that I hear that stuff gets killed by low temperature. I was always operating under the assumption that the little buggers only get, well, frozen, and keep replicating happily when thawed - and get killed only by reaching a certain warmer temperature (e.g., ~40°C for beneficial bacteria involved in baking bread, or ~70-80°C-ish for harmful meat stuff). Do you have a link to some ressource that shows how that works for low temperatures, scientifically?
    – AnoE
    yesterday








  • 1




    Also... if this is possible, why do we bother with keeping stuff cold all the time anyways, and don't just have big local deep-freezers etc., making it much less problematic if something thaws which should not?
    – AnoE
    yesterday






  • 8




    @AnoE slight freezing destroys most wormy parasites and their watery bodies; the hard freezing is to destroy the tougher parasite eggs specifically (see Seamonkies' eggs: survival mechanisms for long tough times!). The shrinking/re-expanding and the ice crystals in cells eventually, mechanically, destroys (statistically) all of them; just like flavour "flattens" over each freezing/thawing cycle, it's various molecules that get mechanically destroyed. The various options of procedures (shorter at colder temperatures) come from experiments that had to destroy a pre-set percentage of parasites.
    – user3445853
    yesterday


















up vote
16
down vote













If you can't find details then it's pretty likely it is not sushi safe, and I would certainly make that assumption. Sushi safe freezing would add extra costs and Ikea is all about low costs. Plus, it wouldn't be necessary if the fish is going to be cooked or cured, and that's how most want to use it. If it was sushi safe I'd expect to see it clearly marked on the packaging - it's good for marketing.






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  • Probably true and safest path but not necessarily right: All commercially available coconuts are "organic" or "bio", but paying for the label and its inspections/paperwork isn't normally worth it. You have to know/study IKEA's cold chain to decide. I'm not in the business, but I imagine e.g., freezing at -20C making economic sense even if the law only prescribes -18C: Say after a 3h power cut the whole storage facility is still at -18.2C so you don't have to destroy the whole stock; same idea smaller scale for cold vans that get stuck in traffic. So it's risk (= chance x cost) of losing stock.
    – user3445853
    yesterday










  • In some countries, you're mandated to freeze at -35. I've worked in such warehouses, and it's not big deal. The issue is unheat loss so to speak. THAT BEING SAID, there's no way of knowing how Ikea freezes its stuff where you live, unless oyu ask them.
    – Haakon Løtveit
    yesterday


















up vote
1
down vote













I know in the UK at least the freezers in Ikea stores as well as other stores are set to under -20ºC as standard. most likely hovering around -21ºC to -22ºC.



Home freezers are also -20ºC by default. So if -18ºC in considered sushi grade then it would pass that test by default almost everywhere.






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  • 4




    What home freezers are -20C by default???
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 1




    @Behacad: the US FDA recommends keeping freezers at 0F (-18C).
    – copper.hat
    2 days ago










  • Oh I see. A F and C confusion here
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 9




    I would strongly recommend adding labels to your values.
    – Warlord 099
    2 days ago






  • 1




    You mean "under -20°"? You should correct this.
    – Electric-Gecko
    yesterday











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3 Answers
3






active

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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

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active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes








up vote
41
down vote













Unless if it's labelled "sushi-grade" or "sashimi-grade", they probably don't freeze it deeply enough, so I wouldn't recommend it as-is. This is because of Salmon's high risk of parasites. However, you can turn it into sushi-grade fish if you have a freezer that reaches -20°C, and don't mind waiting.



Here in British Columbia, the government has Sushi Safety guidelines (as there are a huge number of sushi restaurants here) which instructs to use one of the following methods to destroy parasites in raw fish (except for Tuna, in which freezing is not required) when served in restaurants;




  • Store frozen at -20°C or below for 7 days

  • Store frozen at -35°C or below for 15 hours

  • Store it at -35°C until solid, and then keep it at -20° or below for 24 hours.
    Actually, it may be better to read Manitoba's version of this document, as it gives clearer instructions for the same process.


After the fish has gone through this "sushi-grade" process, it is safe to store it at -18° before eating it raw. This is the most common temperature for household freezers, and probably grocery store freezers.



Disclosure: I have never done this process myself. However, I have never gotten sick from eating sushi in Vancouver, where they are supposedly following these guidelines. I have occasionally heard of others getting sick for a day (allegedly) from sushi, though this may just be because the restaurant (or fish distributor) made a mistake.



Update: It appears that the terms "sushi-grade" & "sashimi-grade" are not regulated by either US or Canadian law, and probably not in the UK either.



It appears the EU laws are more liberal, only requiring 24 hours at -20° for wild salmon, and don't require any freezing for Scottish-farmed Atlantic salmon (due to low risk of parasites). The salmon at Ikea is probably farmed Atlantic, so it might actually qualify (so much for everything that I wrote), though I'm not certain. I unfortunately don't have any research data, so I'm just going by law.



For alternatives, you can go with tuna, which is rather low-risk even without the deep-freezing, which is often not required by law. If you don't mind being less traditional, you can also use smoked salmon or sous-vide salmon.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Electric-Gecko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 15




    Worth pointing out that the "sushi grade" label is completely unregulated, it doesn't indicate any uniform method of preparation or level of safety. Stores do have a vested interest in keeping you safe, so "sushi grade" fish likely is less likely to make you ill when eaten raw, but it's incorrect to assume that all "sushi grade" fish has gone through the same "sushi grade process".
    – Nuclear Wang
    2 days ago






  • 6




    Manitoba's version of the document probably just says to put the fish out in the snow for a day. -40C is just another day in the life there...
    – J...
    2 days ago








  • 2




    I try to believe the things said here, and there are links to official guidelines. But this is the first time ever that I hear that stuff gets killed by low temperature. I was always operating under the assumption that the little buggers only get, well, frozen, and keep replicating happily when thawed - and get killed only by reaching a certain warmer temperature (e.g., ~40°C for beneficial bacteria involved in baking bread, or ~70-80°C-ish for harmful meat stuff). Do you have a link to some ressource that shows how that works for low temperatures, scientifically?
    – AnoE
    yesterday








  • 1




    Also... if this is possible, why do we bother with keeping stuff cold all the time anyways, and don't just have big local deep-freezers etc., making it much less problematic if something thaws which should not?
    – AnoE
    yesterday






  • 8




    @AnoE slight freezing destroys most wormy parasites and their watery bodies; the hard freezing is to destroy the tougher parasite eggs specifically (see Seamonkies' eggs: survival mechanisms for long tough times!). The shrinking/re-expanding and the ice crystals in cells eventually, mechanically, destroys (statistically) all of them; just like flavour "flattens" over each freezing/thawing cycle, it's various molecules that get mechanically destroyed. The various options of procedures (shorter at colder temperatures) come from experiments that had to destroy a pre-set percentage of parasites.
    – user3445853
    yesterday















up vote
41
down vote













Unless if it's labelled "sushi-grade" or "sashimi-grade", they probably don't freeze it deeply enough, so I wouldn't recommend it as-is. This is because of Salmon's high risk of parasites. However, you can turn it into sushi-grade fish if you have a freezer that reaches -20°C, and don't mind waiting.



Here in British Columbia, the government has Sushi Safety guidelines (as there are a huge number of sushi restaurants here) which instructs to use one of the following methods to destroy parasites in raw fish (except for Tuna, in which freezing is not required) when served in restaurants;




  • Store frozen at -20°C or below for 7 days

  • Store frozen at -35°C or below for 15 hours

  • Store it at -35°C until solid, and then keep it at -20° or below for 24 hours.
    Actually, it may be better to read Manitoba's version of this document, as it gives clearer instructions for the same process.


After the fish has gone through this "sushi-grade" process, it is safe to store it at -18° before eating it raw. This is the most common temperature for household freezers, and probably grocery store freezers.



Disclosure: I have never done this process myself. However, I have never gotten sick from eating sushi in Vancouver, where they are supposedly following these guidelines. I have occasionally heard of others getting sick for a day (allegedly) from sushi, though this may just be because the restaurant (or fish distributor) made a mistake.



Update: It appears that the terms "sushi-grade" & "sashimi-grade" are not regulated by either US or Canadian law, and probably not in the UK either.



It appears the EU laws are more liberal, only requiring 24 hours at -20° for wild salmon, and don't require any freezing for Scottish-farmed Atlantic salmon (due to low risk of parasites). The salmon at Ikea is probably farmed Atlantic, so it might actually qualify (so much for everything that I wrote), though I'm not certain. I unfortunately don't have any research data, so I'm just going by law.



For alternatives, you can go with tuna, which is rather low-risk even without the deep-freezing, which is often not required by law. If you don't mind being less traditional, you can also use smoked salmon or sous-vide salmon.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Electric-Gecko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 15




    Worth pointing out that the "sushi grade" label is completely unregulated, it doesn't indicate any uniform method of preparation or level of safety. Stores do have a vested interest in keeping you safe, so "sushi grade" fish likely is less likely to make you ill when eaten raw, but it's incorrect to assume that all "sushi grade" fish has gone through the same "sushi grade process".
    – Nuclear Wang
    2 days ago






  • 6




    Manitoba's version of the document probably just says to put the fish out in the snow for a day. -40C is just another day in the life there...
    – J...
    2 days ago








  • 2




    I try to believe the things said here, and there are links to official guidelines. But this is the first time ever that I hear that stuff gets killed by low temperature. I was always operating under the assumption that the little buggers only get, well, frozen, and keep replicating happily when thawed - and get killed only by reaching a certain warmer temperature (e.g., ~40°C for beneficial bacteria involved in baking bread, or ~70-80°C-ish for harmful meat stuff). Do you have a link to some ressource that shows how that works for low temperatures, scientifically?
    – AnoE
    yesterday








  • 1




    Also... if this is possible, why do we bother with keeping stuff cold all the time anyways, and don't just have big local deep-freezers etc., making it much less problematic if something thaws which should not?
    – AnoE
    yesterday






  • 8




    @AnoE slight freezing destroys most wormy parasites and their watery bodies; the hard freezing is to destroy the tougher parasite eggs specifically (see Seamonkies' eggs: survival mechanisms for long tough times!). The shrinking/re-expanding and the ice crystals in cells eventually, mechanically, destroys (statistically) all of them; just like flavour "flattens" over each freezing/thawing cycle, it's various molecules that get mechanically destroyed. The various options of procedures (shorter at colder temperatures) come from experiments that had to destroy a pre-set percentage of parasites.
    – user3445853
    yesterday













up vote
41
down vote










up vote
41
down vote









Unless if it's labelled "sushi-grade" or "sashimi-grade", they probably don't freeze it deeply enough, so I wouldn't recommend it as-is. This is because of Salmon's high risk of parasites. However, you can turn it into sushi-grade fish if you have a freezer that reaches -20°C, and don't mind waiting.



Here in British Columbia, the government has Sushi Safety guidelines (as there are a huge number of sushi restaurants here) which instructs to use one of the following methods to destroy parasites in raw fish (except for Tuna, in which freezing is not required) when served in restaurants;




  • Store frozen at -20°C or below for 7 days

  • Store frozen at -35°C or below for 15 hours

  • Store it at -35°C until solid, and then keep it at -20° or below for 24 hours.
    Actually, it may be better to read Manitoba's version of this document, as it gives clearer instructions for the same process.


After the fish has gone through this "sushi-grade" process, it is safe to store it at -18° before eating it raw. This is the most common temperature for household freezers, and probably grocery store freezers.



Disclosure: I have never done this process myself. However, I have never gotten sick from eating sushi in Vancouver, where they are supposedly following these guidelines. I have occasionally heard of others getting sick for a day (allegedly) from sushi, though this may just be because the restaurant (or fish distributor) made a mistake.



Update: It appears that the terms "sushi-grade" & "sashimi-grade" are not regulated by either US or Canadian law, and probably not in the UK either.



It appears the EU laws are more liberal, only requiring 24 hours at -20° for wild salmon, and don't require any freezing for Scottish-farmed Atlantic salmon (due to low risk of parasites). The salmon at Ikea is probably farmed Atlantic, so it might actually qualify (so much for everything that I wrote), though I'm not certain. I unfortunately don't have any research data, so I'm just going by law.



For alternatives, you can go with tuna, which is rather low-risk even without the deep-freezing, which is often not required by law. If you don't mind being less traditional, you can also use smoked salmon or sous-vide salmon.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Electric-Gecko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Unless if it's labelled "sushi-grade" or "sashimi-grade", they probably don't freeze it deeply enough, so I wouldn't recommend it as-is. This is because of Salmon's high risk of parasites. However, you can turn it into sushi-grade fish if you have a freezer that reaches -20°C, and don't mind waiting.



Here in British Columbia, the government has Sushi Safety guidelines (as there are a huge number of sushi restaurants here) which instructs to use one of the following methods to destroy parasites in raw fish (except for Tuna, in which freezing is not required) when served in restaurants;




  • Store frozen at -20°C or below for 7 days

  • Store frozen at -35°C or below for 15 hours

  • Store it at -35°C until solid, and then keep it at -20° or below for 24 hours.
    Actually, it may be better to read Manitoba's version of this document, as it gives clearer instructions for the same process.


After the fish has gone through this "sushi-grade" process, it is safe to store it at -18° before eating it raw. This is the most common temperature for household freezers, and probably grocery store freezers.



Disclosure: I have never done this process myself. However, I have never gotten sick from eating sushi in Vancouver, where they are supposedly following these guidelines. I have occasionally heard of others getting sick for a day (allegedly) from sushi, though this may just be because the restaurant (or fish distributor) made a mistake.



Update: It appears that the terms "sushi-grade" & "sashimi-grade" are not regulated by either US or Canadian law, and probably not in the UK either.



It appears the EU laws are more liberal, only requiring 24 hours at -20° for wild salmon, and don't require any freezing for Scottish-farmed Atlantic salmon (due to low risk of parasites). The salmon at Ikea is probably farmed Atlantic, so it might actually qualify (so much for everything that I wrote), though I'm not certain. I unfortunately don't have any research data, so I'm just going by law.



For alternatives, you can go with tuna, which is rather low-risk even without the deep-freezing, which is often not required by law. If you don't mind being less traditional, you can also use smoked salmon or sous-vide salmon.







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edited yesterday





















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answered 2 days ago









Electric-Gecko

53114




53114




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  • 15




    Worth pointing out that the "sushi grade" label is completely unregulated, it doesn't indicate any uniform method of preparation or level of safety. Stores do have a vested interest in keeping you safe, so "sushi grade" fish likely is less likely to make you ill when eaten raw, but it's incorrect to assume that all "sushi grade" fish has gone through the same "sushi grade process".
    – Nuclear Wang
    2 days ago






  • 6




    Manitoba's version of the document probably just says to put the fish out in the snow for a day. -40C is just another day in the life there...
    – J...
    2 days ago








  • 2




    I try to believe the things said here, and there are links to official guidelines. But this is the first time ever that I hear that stuff gets killed by low temperature. I was always operating under the assumption that the little buggers only get, well, frozen, and keep replicating happily when thawed - and get killed only by reaching a certain warmer temperature (e.g., ~40°C for beneficial bacteria involved in baking bread, or ~70-80°C-ish for harmful meat stuff). Do you have a link to some ressource that shows how that works for low temperatures, scientifically?
    – AnoE
    yesterday








  • 1




    Also... if this is possible, why do we bother with keeping stuff cold all the time anyways, and don't just have big local deep-freezers etc., making it much less problematic if something thaws which should not?
    – AnoE
    yesterday






  • 8




    @AnoE slight freezing destroys most wormy parasites and their watery bodies; the hard freezing is to destroy the tougher parasite eggs specifically (see Seamonkies' eggs: survival mechanisms for long tough times!). The shrinking/re-expanding and the ice crystals in cells eventually, mechanically, destroys (statistically) all of them; just like flavour "flattens" over each freezing/thawing cycle, it's various molecules that get mechanically destroyed. The various options of procedures (shorter at colder temperatures) come from experiments that had to destroy a pre-set percentage of parasites.
    – user3445853
    yesterday














  • 15




    Worth pointing out that the "sushi grade" label is completely unregulated, it doesn't indicate any uniform method of preparation or level of safety. Stores do have a vested interest in keeping you safe, so "sushi grade" fish likely is less likely to make you ill when eaten raw, but it's incorrect to assume that all "sushi grade" fish has gone through the same "sushi grade process".
    – Nuclear Wang
    2 days ago






  • 6




    Manitoba's version of the document probably just says to put the fish out in the snow for a day. -40C is just another day in the life there...
    – J...
    2 days ago








  • 2




    I try to believe the things said here, and there are links to official guidelines. But this is the first time ever that I hear that stuff gets killed by low temperature. I was always operating under the assumption that the little buggers only get, well, frozen, and keep replicating happily when thawed - and get killed only by reaching a certain warmer temperature (e.g., ~40°C for beneficial bacteria involved in baking bread, or ~70-80°C-ish for harmful meat stuff). Do you have a link to some ressource that shows how that works for low temperatures, scientifically?
    – AnoE
    yesterday








  • 1




    Also... if this is possible, why do we bother with keeping stuff cold all the time anyways, and don't just have big local deep-freezers etc., making it much less problematic if something thaws which should not?
    – AnoE
    yesterday






  • 8




    @AnoE slight freezing destroys most wormy parasites and their watery bodies; the hard freezing is to destroy the tougher parasite eggs specifically (see Seamonkies' eggs: survival mechanisms for long tough times!). The shrinking/re-expanding and the ice crystals in cells eventually, mechanically, destroys (statistically) all of them; just like flavour "flattens" over each freezing/thawing cycle, it's various molecules that get mechanically destroyed. The various options of procedures (shorter at colder temperatures) come from experiments that had to destroy a pre-set percentage of parasites.
    – user3445853
    yesterday








15




15




Worth pointing out that the "sushi grade" label is completely unregulated, it doesn't indicate any uniform method of preparation or level of safety. Stores do have a vested interest in keeping you safe, so "sushi grade" fish likely is less likely to make you ill when eaten raw, but it's incorrect to assume that all "sushi grade" fish has gone through the same "sushi grade process".
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago




Worth pointing out that the "sushi grade" label is completely unregulated, it doesn't indicate any uniform method of preparation or level of safety. Stores do have a vested interest in keeping you safe, so "sushi grade" fish likely is less likely to make you ill when eaten raw, but it's incorrect to assume that all "sushi grade" fish has gone through the same "sushi grade process".
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago




6




6




Manitoba's version of the document probably just says to put the fish out in the snow for a day. -40C is just another day in the life there...
– J...
2 days ago






Manitoba's version of the document probably just says to put the fish out in the snow for a day. -40C is just another day in the life there...
– J...
2 days ago






2




2




I try to believe the things said here, and there are links to official guidelines. But this is the first time ever that I hear that stuff gets killed by low temperature. I was always operating under the assumption that the little buggers only get, well, frozen, and keep replicating happily when thawed - and get killed only by reaching a certain warmer temperature (e.g., ~40°C for beneficial bacteria involved in baking bread, or ~70-80°C-ish for harmful meat stuff). Do you have a link to some ressource that shows how that works for low temperatures, scientifically?
– AnoE
yesterday






I try to believe the things said here, and there are links to official guidelines. But this is the first time ever that I hear that stuff gets killed by low temperature. I was always operating under the assumption that the little buggers only get, well, frozen, and keep replicating happily when thawed - and get killed only by reaching a certain warmer temperature (e.g., ~40°C for beneficial bacteria involved in baking bread, or ~70-80°C-ish for harmful meat stuff). Do you have a link to some ressource that shows how that works for low temperatures, scientifically?
– AnoE
yesterday






1




1




Also... if this is possible, why do we bother with keeping stuff cold all the time anyways, and don't just have big local deep-freezers etc., making it much less problematic if something thaws which should not?
– AnoE
yesterday




Also... if this is possible, why do we bother with keeping stuff cold all the time anyways, and don't just have big local deep-freezers etc., making it much less problematic if something thaws which should not?
– AnoE
yesterday




8




8




@AnoE slight freezing destroys most wormy parasites and their watery bodies; the hard freezing is to destroy the tougher parasite eggs specifically (see Seamonkies' eggs: survival mechanisms for long tough times!). The shrinking/re-expanding and the ice crystals in cells eventually, mechanically, destroys (statistically) all of them; just like flavour "flattens" over each freezing/thawing cycle, it's various molecules that get mechanically destroyed. The various options of procedures (shorter at colder temperatures) come from experiments that had to destroy a pre-set percentage of parasites.
– user3445853
yesterday




@AnoE slight freezing destroys most wormy parasites and their watery bodies; the hard freezing is to destroy the tougher parasite eggs specifically (see Seamonkies' eggs: survival mechanisms for long tough times!). The shrinking/re-expanding and the ice crystals in cells eventually, mechanically, destroys (statistically) all of them; just like flavour "flattens" over each freezing/thawing cycle, it's various molecules that get mechanically destroyed. The various options of procedures (shorter at colder temperatures) come from experiments that had to destroy a pre-set percentage of parasites.
– user3445853
yesterday












up vote
16
down vote













If you can't find details then it's pretty likely it is not sushi safe, and I would certainly make that assumption. Sushi safe freezing would add extra costs and Ikea is all about low costs. Plus, it wouldn't be necessary if the fish is going to be cooked or cured, and that's how most want to use it. If it was sushi safe I'd expect to see it clearly marked on the packaging - it's good for marketing.






share|improve this answer





















  • Probably true and safest path but not necessarily right: All commercially available coconuts are "organic" or "bio", but paying for the label and its inspections/paperwork isn't normally worth it. You have to know/study IKEA's cold chain to decide. I'm not in the business, but I imagine e.g., freezing at -20C making economic sense even if the law only prescribes -18C: Say after a 3h power cut the whole storage facility is still at -18.2C so you don't have to destroy the whole stock; same idea smaller scale for cold vans that get stuck in traffic. So it's risk (= chance x cost) of losing stock.
    – user3445853
    yesterday










  • In some countries, you're mandated to freeze at -35. I've worked in such warehouses, and it's not big deal. The issue is unheat loss so to speak. THAT BEING SAID, there's no way of knowing how Ikea freezes its stuff where you live, unless oyu ask them.
    – Haakon Løtveit
    yesterday















up vote
16
down vote













If you can't find details then it's pretty likely it is not sushi safe, and I would certainly make that assumption. Sushi safe freezing would add extra costs and Ikea is all about low costs. Plus, it wouldn't be necessary if the fish is going to be cooked or cured, and that's how most want to use it. If it was sushi safe I'd expect to see it clearly marked on the packaging - it's good for marketing.






share|improve this answer





















  • Probably true and safest path but not necessarily right: All commercially available coconuts are "organic" or "bio", but paying for the label and its inspections/paperwork isn't normally worth it. You have to know/study IKEA's cold chain to decide. I'm not in the business, but I imagine e.g., freezing at -20C making economic sense even if the law only prescribes -18C: Say after a 3h power cut the whole storage facility is still at -18.2C so you don't have to destroy the whole stock; same idea smaller scale for cold vans that get stuck in traffic. So it's risk (= chance x cost) of losing stock.
    – user3445853
    yesterday










  • In some countries, you're mandated to freeze at -35. I've worked in such warehouses, and it's not big deal. The issue is unheat loss so to speak. THAT BEING SAID, there's no way of knowing how Ikea freezes its stuff where you live, unless oyu ask them.
    – Haakon Løtveit
    yesterday













up vote
16
down vote










up vote
16
down vote









If you can't find details then it's pretty likely it is not sushi safe, and I would certainly make that assumption. Sushi safe freezing would add extra costs and Ikea is all about low costs. Plus, it wouldn't be necessary if the fish is going to be cooked or cured, and that's how most want to use it. If it was sushi safe I'd expect to see it clearly marked on the packaging - it's good for marketing.






share|improve this answer












If you can't find details then it's pretty likely it is not sushi safe, and I would certainly make that assumption. Sushi safe freezing would add extra costs and Ikea is all about low costs. Plus, it wouldn't be necessary if the fish is going to be cooked or cured, and that's how most want to use it. If it was sushi safe I'd expect to see it clearly marked on the packaging - it's good for marketing.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









GdD

37.4k151104




37.4k151104












  • Probably true and safest path but not necessarily right: All commercially available coconuts are "organic" or "bio", but paying for the label and its inspections/paperwork isn't normally worth it. You have to know/study IKEA's cold chain to decide. I'm not in the business, but I imagine e.g., freezing at -20C making economic sense even if the law only prescribes -18C: Say after a 3h power cut the whole storage facility is still at -18.2C so you don't have to destroy the whole stock; same idea smaller scale for cold vans that get stuck in traffic. So it's risk (= chance x cost) of losing stock.
    – user3445853
    yesterday










  • In some countries, you're mandated to freeze at -35. I've worked in such warehouses, and it's not big deal. The issue is unheat loss so to speak. THAT BEING SAID, there's no way of knowing how Ikea freezes its stuff where you live, unless oyu ask them.
    – Haakon Løtveit
    yesterday


















  • Probably true and safest path but not necessarily right: All commercially available coconuts are "organic" or "bio", but paying for the label and its inspections/paperwork isn't normally worth it. You have to know/study IKEA's cold chain to decide. I'm not in the business, but I imagine e.g., freezing at -20C making economic sense even if the law only prescribes -18C: Say after a 3h power cut the whole storage facility is still at -18.2C so you don't have to destroy the whole stock; same idea smaller scale for cold vans that get stuck in traffic. So it's risk (= chance x cost) of losing stock.
    – user3445853
    yesterday










  • In some countries, you're mandated to freeze at -35. I've worked in such warehouses, and it's not big deal. The issue is unheat loss so to speak. THAT BEING SAID, there's no way of knowing how Ikea freezes its stuff where you live, unless oyu ask them.
    – Haakon Løtveit
    yesterday
















Probably true and safest path but not necessarily right: All commercially available coconuts are "organic" or "bio", but paying for the label and its inspections/paperwork isn't normally worth it. You have to know/study IKEA's cold chain to decide. I'm not in the business, but I imagine e.g., freezing at -20C making economic sense even if the law only prescribes -18C: Say after a 3h power cut the whole storage facility is still at -18.2C so you don't have to destroy the whole stock; same idea smaller scale for cold vans that get stuck in traffic. So it's risk (= chance x cost) of losing stock.
– user3445853
yesterday




Probably true and safest path but not necessarily right: All commercially available coconuts are "organic" or "bio", but paying for the label and its inspections/paperwork isn't normally worth it. You have to know/study IKEA's cold chain to decide. I'm not in the business, but I imagine e.g., freezing at -20C making economic sense even if the law only prescribes -18C: Say after a 3h power cut the whole storage facility is still at -18.2C so you don't have to destroy the whole stock; same idea smaller scale for cold vans that get stuck in traffic. So it's risk (= chance x cost) of losing stock.
– user3445853
yesterday












In some countries, you're mandated to freeze at -35. I've worked in such warehouses, and it's not big deal. The issue is unheat loss so to speak. THAT BEING SAID, there's no way of knowing how Ikea freezes its stuff where you live, unless oyu ask them.
– Haakon Løtveit
yesterday




In some countries, you're mandated to freeze at -35. I've worked in such warehouses, and it's not big deal. The issue is unheat loss so to speak. THAT BEING SAID, there's no way of knowing how Ikea freezes its stuff where you live, unless oyu ask them.
– Haakon Løtveit
yesterday










up vote
1
down vote













I know in the UK at least the freezers in Ikea stores as well as other stores are set to under -20ºC as standard. most likely hovering around -21ºC to -22ºC.



Home freezers are also -20ºC by default. So if -18ºC in considered sushi grade then it would pass that test by default almost everywhere.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




GamerGypps is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 4




    What home freezers are -20C by default???
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 1




    @Behacad: the US FDA recommends keeping freezers at 0F (-18C).
    – copper.hat
    2 days ago










  • Oh I see. A F and C confusion here
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 9




    I would strongly recommend adding labels to your values.
    – Warlord 099
    2 days ago






  • 1




    You mean "under -20°"? You should correct this.
    – Electric-Gecko
    yesterday















up vote
1
down vote













I know in the UK at least the freezers in Ikea stores as well as other stores are set to under -20ºC as standard. most likely hovering around -21ºC to -22ºC.



Home freezers are also -20ºC by default. So if -18ºC in considered sushi grade then it would pass that test by default almost everywhere.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




GamerGypps is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 4




    What home freezers are -20C by default???
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 1




    @Behacad: the US FDA recommends keeping freezers at 0F (-18C).
    – copper.hat
    2 days ago










  • Oh I see. A F and C confusion here
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 9




    I would strongly recommend adding labels to your values.
    – Warlord 099
    2 days ago






  • 1




    You mean "under -20°"? You should correct this.
    – Electric-Gecko
    yesterday













up vote
1
down vote










up vote
1
down vote









I know in the UK at least the freezers in Ikea stores as well as other stores are set to under -20ºC as standard. most likely hovering around -21ºC to -22ºC.



Home freezers are also -20ºC by default. So if -18ºC in considered sushi grade then it would pass that test by default almost everywhere.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




GamerGypps is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









I know in the UK at least the freezers in Ikea stores as well as other stores are set to under -20ºC as standard. most likely hovering around -21ºC to -22ºC.



Home freezers are also -20ºC by default. So if -18ºC in considered sushi grade then it would pass that test by default almost everywhere.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




GamerGypps is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday





















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answered 2 days ago









GamerGypps

1113




1113




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New contributor





GamerGypps is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 4




    What home freezers are -20C by default???
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 1




    @Behacad: the US FDA recommends keeping freezers at 0F (-18C).
    – copper.hat
    2 days ago










  • Oh I see. A F and C confusion here
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 9




    I would strongly recommend adding labels to your values.
    – Warlord 099
    2 days ago






  • 1




    You mean "under -20°"? You should correct this.
    – Electric-Gecko
    yesterday














  • 4




    What home freezers are -20C by default???
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 1




    @Behacad: the US FDA recommends keeping freezers at 0F (-18C).
    – copper.hat
    2 days ago










  • Oh I see. A F and C confusion here
    – Behacad
    2 days ago






  • 9




    I would strongly recommend adding labels to your values.
    – Warlord 099
    2 days ago






  • 1




    You mean "under -20°"? You should correct this.
    – Electric-Gecko
    yesterday








4




4




What home freezers are -20C by default???
– Behacad
2 days ago




What home freezers are -20C by default???
– Behacad
2 days ago




1




1




@Behacad: the US FDA recommends keeping freezers at 0F (-18C).
– copper.hat
2 days ago




@Behacad: the US FDA recommends keeping freezers at 0F (-18C).
– copper.hat
2 days ago












Oh I see. A F and C confusion here
– Behacad
2 days ago




Oh I see. A F and C confusion here
– Behacad
2 days ago




9




9




I would strongly recommend adding labels to your values.
– Warlord 099
2 days ago




I would strongly recommend adding labels to your values.
– Warlord 099
2 days ago




1




1




You mean "under -20°"? You should correct this.
– Electric-Gecko
yesterday




You mean "under -20°"? You should correct this.
– Electric-Gecko
yesterday










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