Why do we define vector spaces over fields and not over commutative rings with unity?











up vote
2
down vote

favorite












I am using commutative ring with unity in the sense that there exists at least one non-zero element in the ring which doesn't have a multiplicative inverse. Can't we define scalar multiplication on a vector space with elements of commutative ring with unity, instead of field?










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




SALONI SINHA is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 2




    Yes we can, but it has slightly different properties, and is called a module over the ring.
    – Berci
    Nov 16 at 10:31






  • 1




    Yes we can. But some things break down. For example we cannot prove that $acdot x=0$ implies that either $x=0$ or $a=0$ because we can no longer multiply by $1/a$. This has implications elsewhere. For example, a non-zero vector need not form a linearly independent set. Consequently the concepts of basis and dimension need modifications, and won't play out as nicely as they do over a field. You cannot necessarily find linearly independent sets of generators (even assuming a finite generator set).
    – Jyrki Lahtonen
    Nov 16 at 12:29

















up vote
2
down vote

favorite












I am using commutative ring with unity in the sense that there exists at least one non-zero element in the ring which doesn't have a multiplicative inverse. Can't we define scalar multiplication on a vector space with elements of commutative ring with unity, instead of field?










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




SALONI SINHA is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 2




    Yes we can, but it has slightly different properties, and is called a module over the ring.
    – Berci
    Nov 16 at 10:31






  • 1




    Yes we can. But some things break down. For example we cannot prove that $acdot x=0$ implies that either $x=0$ or $a=0$ because we can no longer multiply by $1/a$. This has implications elsewhere. For example, a non-zero vector need not form a linearly independent set. Consequently the concepts of basis and dimension need modifications, and won't play out as nicely as they do over a field. You cannot necessarily find linearly independent sets of generators (even assuming a finite generator set).
    – Jyrki Lahtonen
    Nov 16 at 12:29















up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite











I am using commutative ring with unity in the sense that there exists at least one non-zero element in the ring which doesn't have a multiplicative inverse. Can't we define scalar multiplication on a vector space with elements of commutative ring with unity, instead of field?










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




SALONI SINHA is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I am using commutative ring with unity in the sense that there exists at least one non-zero element in the ring which doesn't have a multiplicative inverse. Can't we define scalar multiplication on a vector space with elements of commutative ring with unity, instead of field?







linear-algebra






share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




SALONI SINHA is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




SALONI SINHA is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question






New contributor




SALONI SINHA is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked Nov 16 at 10:28









SALONI SINHA

162




162




New contributor




SALONI SINHA is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





SALONI SINHA is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






SALONI SINHA is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 2




    Yes we can, but it has slightly different properties, and is called a module over the ring.
    – Berci
    Nov 16 at 10:31






  • 1




    Yes we can. But some things break down. For example we cannot prove that $acdot x=0$ implies that either $x=0$ or $a=0$ because we can no longer multiply by $1/a$. This has implications elsewhere. For example, a non-zero vector need not form a linearly independent set. Consequently the concepts of basis and dimension need modifications, and won't play out as nicely as they do over a field. You cannot necessarily find linearly independent sets of generators (even assuming a finite generator set).
    – Jyrki Lahtonen
    Nov 16 at 12:29
















  • 2




    Yes we can, but it has slightly different properties, and is called a module over the ring.
    – Berci
    Nov 16 at 10:31






  • 1




    Yes we can. But some things break down. For example we cannot prove that $acdot x=0$ implies that either $x=0$ or $a=0$ because we can no longer multiply by $1/a$. This has implications elsewhere. For example, a non-zero vector need not form a linearly independent set. Consequently the concepts of basis and dimension need modifications, and won't play out as nicely as they do over a field. You cannot necessarily find linearly independent sets of generators (even assuming a finite generator set).
    – Jyrki Lahtonen
    Nov 16 at 12:29










2




2




Yes we can, but it has slightly different properties, and is called a module over the ring.
– Berci
Nov 16 at 10:31




Yes we can, but it has slightly different properties, and is called a module over the ring.
– Berci
Nov 16 at 10:31




1




1




Yes we can. But some things break down. For example we cannot prove that $acdot x=0$ implies that either $x=0$ or $a=0$ because we can no longer multiply by $1/a$. This has implications elsewhere. For example, a non-zero vector need not form a linearly independent set. Consequently the concepts of basis and dimension need modifications, and won't play out as nicely as they do over a field. You cannot necessarily find linearly independent sets of generators (even assuming a finite generator set).
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 16 at 12:29






Yes we can. But some things break down. For example we cannot prove that $acdot x=0$ implies that either $x=0$ or $a=0$ because we can no longer multiply by $1/a$. This has implications elsewhere. For example, a non-zero vector need not form a linearly independent set. Consequently the concepts of basis and dimension need modifications, and won't play out as nicely as they do over a field. You cannot necessarily find linearly independent sets of generators (even assuming a finite generator set).
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 16 at 12:29












3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
3
down vote













Yes, we can do that. We just don't call them “vector spaces”. We call them “modules” instead.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    You could, but there a lot of things you couldn't do with them, for instance normalization.






    share|cite|improve this answer

















    • 2




      You can't always normalize over fields either. Consider $(1, 1)in Bbb Q^2$. And some vector spaces don't even have norms (although it's often possible to construct one).
      – Arthur
      Nov 16 at 10:33




















    up vote
    0
    down vote













    If $R$ is a commutative unital ring, then an $R$-module is an abelian group $M$ with a "scalar multiplication" map $R times M to M$, written $r cdot m = rm$, which satisfies




    1. $(r + s)m = rm + sm$

    2. $r(m + n) = rm + rn$

    3. $r(sm) = (rs)m$


    If $R$ is a field, then an $R$-module is precisely a vector space over that field, and we get the usual notions of dimension, bases, and so on. However, if $R$ is not a field, then an $R$-module is usually a slightly more complicated thing.



    For example if $R = mathbb{Z}$, then $mathbb{Z}, mathbb{Z}^2, ldots$ are all $mathbb{Z}$-modules in the usual way, and any basis of $mathbb{Z}^n$ will have size $n$. However, $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is also a $mathbb{Z}-module$, and it has no basis. (No element $m$ of $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is linearly independent, since $3m = 0$). So the theory of modules is more complicated than the theory of vector spaces.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "69"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      convertImagesToLinks: true,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: 10,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });






      SALONI SINHA is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










       

      draft saved


      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3000979%2fwhy-do-we-define-vector-spaces-over-fields-and-not-over-commutative-rings-with-u%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      3
      down vote













      Yes, we can do that. We just don't call them “vector spaces”. We call them “modules” instead.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        3
        down vote













        Yes, we can do that. We just don't call them “vector spaces”. We call them “modules” instead.






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          3
          down vote










          up vote
          3
          down vote









          Yes, we can do that. We just don't call them “vector spaces”. We call them “modules” instead.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          Yes, we can do that. We just don't call them “vector spaces”. We call them “modules” instead.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 16 at 10:30









          José Carlos Santos

          140k19111204




          140k19111204






















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              You could, but there a lot of things you couldn't do with them, for instance normalization.






              share|cite|improve this answer

















              • 2




                You can't always normalize over fields either. Consider $(1, 1)in Bbb Q^2$. And some vector spaces don't even have norms (although it's often possible to construct one).
                – Arthur
                Nov 16 at 10:33

















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              You could, but there a lot of things you couldn't do with them, for instance normalization.






              share|cite|improve this answer

















              • 2




                You can't always normalize over fields either. Consider $(1, 1)in Bbb Q^2$. And some vector spaces don't even have norms (although it's often possible to construct one).
                – Arthur
                Nov 16 at 10:33















              up vote
              0
              down vote










              up vote
              0
              down vote









              You could, but there a lot of things you couldn't do with them, for instance normalization.






              share|cite|improve this answer












              You could, but there a lot of things you couldn't do with them, for instance normalization.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Nov 16 at 10:32









              nbubis

              26.9k552106




              26.9k552106








              • 2




                You can't always normalize over fields either. Consider $(1, 1)in Bbb Q^2$. And some vector spaces don't even have norms (although it's often possible to construct one).
                – Arthur
                Nov 16 at 10:33
















              • 2




                You can't always normalize over fields either. Consider $(1, 1)in Bbb Q^2$. And some vector spaces don't even have norms (although it's often possible to construct one).
                – Arthur
                Nov 16 at 10:33










              2




              2




              You can't always normalize over fields either. Consider $(1, 1)in Bbb Q^2$. And some vector spaces don't even have norms (although it's often possible to construct one).
              – Arthur
              Nov 16 at 10:33






              You can't always normalize over fields either. Consider $(1, 1)in Bbb Q^2$. And some vector spaces don't even have norms (although it's often possible to construct one).
              – Arthur
              Nov 16 at 10:33












              up vote
              0
              down vote













              If $R$ is a commutative unital ring, then an $R$-module is an abelian group $M$ with a "scalar multiplication" map $R times M to M$, written $r cdot m = rm$, which satisfies




              1. $(r + s)m = rm + sm$

              2. $r(m + n) = rm + rn$

              3. $r(sm) = (rs)m$


              If $R$ is a field, then an $R$-module is precisely a vector space over that field, and we get the usual notions of dimension, bases, and so on. However, if $R$ is not a field, then an $R$-module is usually a slightly more complicated thing.



              For example if $R = mathbb{Z}$, then $mathbb{Z}, mathbb{Z}^2, ldots$ are all $mathbb{Z}$-modules in the usual way, and any basis of $mathbb{Z}^n$ will have size $n$. However, $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is also a $mathbb{Z}-module$, and it has no basis. (No element $m$ of $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is linearly independent, since $3m = 0$). So the theory of modules is more complicated than the theory of vector spaces.






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                If $R$ is a commutative unital ring, then an $R$-module is an abelian group $M$ with a "scalar multiplication" map $R times M to M$, written $r cdot m = rm$, which satisfies




                1. $(r + s)m = rm + sm$

                2. $r(m + n) = rm + rn$

                3. $r(sm) = (rs)m$


                If $R$ is a field, then an $R$-module is precisely a vector space over that field, and we get the usual notions of dimension, bases, and so on. However, if $R$ is not a field, then an $R$-module is usually a slightly more complicated thing.



                For example if $R = mathbb{Z}$, then $mathbb{Z}, mathbb{Z}^2, ldots$ are all $mathbb{Z}$-modules in the usual way, and any basis of $mathbb{Z}^n$ will have size $n$. However, $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is also a $mathbb{Z}-module$, and it has no basis. (No element $m$ of $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is linearly independent, since $3m = 0$). So the theory of modules is more complicated than the theory of vector spaces.






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  If $R$ is a commutative unital ring, then an $R$-module is an abelian group $M$ with a "scalar multiplication" map $R times M to M$, written $r cdot m = rm$, which satisfies




                  1. $(r + s)m = rm + sm$

                  2. $r(m + n) = rm + rn$

                  3. $r(sm) = (rs)m$


                  If $R$ is a field, then an $R$-module is precisely a vector space over that field, and we get the usual notions of dimension, bases, and so on. However, if $R$ is not a field, then an $R$-module is usually a slightly more complicated thing.



                  For example if $R = mathbb{Z}$, then $mathbb{Z}, mathbb{Z}^2, ldots$ are all $mathbb{Z}$-modules in the usual way, and any basis of $mathbb{Z}^n$ will have size $n$. However, $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is also a $mathbb{Z}-module$, and it has no basis. (No element $m$ of $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is linearly independent, since $3m = 0$). So the theory of modules is more complicated than the theory of vector spaces.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  If $R$ is a commutative unital ring, then an $R$-module is an abelian group $M$ with a "scalar multiplication" map $R times M to M$, written $r cdot m = rm$, which satisfies




                  1. $(r + s)m = rm + sm$

                  2. $r(m + n) = rm + rn$

                  3. $r(sm) = (rs)m$


                  If $R$ is a field, then an $R$-module is precisely a vector space over that field, and we get the usual notions of dimension, bases, and so on. However, if $R$ is not a field, then an $R$-module is usually a slightly more complicated thing.



                  For example if $R = mathbb{Z}$, then $mathbb{Z}, mathbb{Z}^2, ldots$ are all $mathbb{Z}$-modules in the usual way, and any basis of $mathbb{Z}^n$ will have size $n$. However, $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is also a $mathbb{Z}-module$, and it has no basis. (No element $m$ of $mathbb{Z}/3mathbb{Z}$ is linearly independent, since $3m = 0$). So the theory of modules is more complicated than the theory of vector spaces.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 16 at 12:21









                  Joppy

                  5,448420




                  5,448420






















                      SALONI SINHA is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










                       

                      draft saved


                      draft discarded


















                      SALONI SINHA is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













                      SALONI SINHA is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                      SALONI SINHA is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.















                       


                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3000979%2fwhy-do-we-define-vector-spaces-over-fields-and-not-over-commutative-rings-with-u%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Quarter-circle Tiles

                      build a pushdown automaton that recognizes the reverse language of a given pushdown automaton?

                      Mont Emei