Use of ある with animate subject
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From the children's story おーい、でてこーい. A one metre wide hole has appeared in the ground after a landslide. The hole is dark and gives the feeling that it goes all the way to the centre of the earth. The villagers are talking about it:
「キツネの穴かな。」
Maybe it's a fox hole.
そんなことを言った者もあった。
There was even a person who said such a thing.
My translation of the second sentence seems very unnatural. I have two problems:
1) Why is ある used with an animate subject (者) rather than いる?
2) My translation makes it sound like the narrator is ridiculing the person who suggested it was a fox hole. Are my translations of そんな as 'such a' and も as 'even' accurate in this case? Is this sentence implying that the fox hole suggestion is ridiculous, or am I totally mistranslating it?
grammar reading-comprehension
asked 2 days ago
user3856370
12.6k51762
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
From the children's story おーい、でてこーい. A one metre wide hole has appeared in the ground after a landslide. The hole is dark and gives the feeling that it goes all the way to the centre of the earth. The villagers are talking about it:
「キツネの穴かな。」
Maybe it's a fox hole.
そんなことを言った者もあった。
There was even a person who said such a thing.
My translation of the second sentence seems very unnatural. I have two problems:
1) Why is ある used with an animate subject (者) rather than いる?
2) My translation makes it sound like the narrator is ridiculing the person who suggested it was a fox hole. Are my translations of そんな as 'such a' and も as 'even' accurate in this case? Is this sentence implying that the fox hole suggestion is ridiculous, or am I totally mistranslating it?
grammar reading-comprehension
asked 2 days ago
user3856370
12.6k51762
1
ある isn't limited to what we call "inanimate subject". It can be used also with living things, although it adds a certain nuance (and is unnatural in some cases)
– CSPP
2 days ago
1
Partly related, maybe? japanese.stackexchange.com/a/1914/9831昔、ある所におじいさんとおばあさんがあった。
– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
2
This page might be of some help... d.hatena.ne.jp/higonosuke/20050622
– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
From the children's story おーい、でてこーい. A one metre wide hole has appeared in the ground after a landslide. The hole is dark and gives the feeling that it goes all the way to the centre of the earth. The villagers are talking about it:
「キツネの穴かな。」
Maybe it's a fox hole.
そんなことを言った者もあった。
There was even a person who said such a thing.
My translation of the second sentence seems very unnatural. I have two problems:
1) Why is ある used with an animate subject (者) rather than いる?
2) My translation makes it sound like the narrator is ridiculing the person who suggested it was a fox hole. Are my translations of そんな as 'such a' and も as 'even' accurate in this case? Is this sentence implying that the fox hole suggestion is ridiculous, or am I totally mistranslating it?
grammar reading-comprehension
asked 2 days ago
user3856370
12.6k51762
From the children's story おーい、でてこーい. A one metre wide hole has appeared in the ground after a landslide. The hole is dark and gives the feeling that it goes all the way to the centre of the earth. The villagers are talking about it:
「キツネの穴かな。」
Maybe it's a fox hole.
そんなことを言った者もあった。
There was even a person who said such a thing.
My translation of the second sentence seems very unnatural. I have two problems:
1) Why is ある used with an animate subject (者) rather than いる?
2) My translation makes it sound like the narrator is ridiculing the person who suggested it was a fox hole. Are my translations of そんな as 'such a' and も as 'even' accurate in this case? Is this sentence implying that the fox hole suggestion is ridiculous, or am I totally mistranslating it?
grammar reading-comprehension
grammar reading-comprehension
asked 2 days ago
user3856370
12.6k51762
asked 2 days ago
user3856370
12.6k51762
asked 2 days ago
user3856370
12.6k51762
asked 2 days ago
user3856370
12.6k51762
asked 2 days ago
user3856370
12.6k51762
12.6k51762
1
ある isn't limited to what we call "inanimate subject". It can be used also with living things, although it adds a certain nuance (and is unnatural in some cases)
– CSPP
2 days ago
1
Partly related, maybe? japanese.stackexchange.com/a/1914/9831昔、ある所におじいさんとおばあさんがあった。
– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
2
This page might be of some help... d.hatena.ne.jp/higonosuke/20050622
– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
add a comment |
1
ある isn't limited to what we call "inanimate subject". It can be used also with living things, although it adds a certain nuance (and is unnatural in some cases)
– CSPP
2 days ago
1
Partly related, maybe? japanese.stackexchange.com/a/1914/9831昔、ある所におじいさんとおばあさんがあった。
– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
2
This page might be of some help... d.hatena.ne.jp/higonosuke/20050622
– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
1
1
ある isn't limited to what we call "inanimate subject". It can be used also with living things, although it adds a certain nuance (and is unnatural in some cases)
– CSPP
2 days ago
ある isn't limited to what we call "inanimate subject". It can be used also with living things, although it adds a certain nuance (and is unnatural in some cases)
– CSPP
2 days ago
1
1
Partly related, maybe? japanese.stackexchange.com/a/1914/9831
昔、ある所におじいさんとおばあさんがあった。– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
Partly related, maybe? japanese.stackexchange.com/a/1914/9831
昔、ある所におじいさんとおばあさんがあった。– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
2
2
This page might be of some help... d.hatena.ne.jp/higonosuke/20050622
– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
This page might be of some help... d.hatena.ne.jp/higonosuke/20050622
– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
ある is used for inanimate objects and concepts/abstractions. 者 is an abstraction of "person/people" (for example, the way the words "those" and "some" can be used when speaking of people).
Your image that the narrator is slightly ridiculing those who suggested a fox hole, is pretty accurate. It's a very dismissive sentence. You are identifying そんな and も just fine.
Any translation has some wiggle room, always, so I feel that your translation is alright, though I might change "a person" to "some people" or "some":
「キツネの穴かな。」
"Could it be a fox hole?" / "I wonder if it's a fox hole."
そんなことを言った者もあった。
There were even some who said things like that.
answered 2 days ago
ericfromabeno
3,098418
1
宮沢賢治『雨ニモ負ケズ』ってご存じでしょう。「東に病気の子供あれば 行って看病してやり 西に疲れた母あれば 行ってその稲の束を負い 南に死にそうな人あれば 行ってこわがらなくてもいいといい...」とかね・・
– Chocolate♦
yesterday
@Chocolate Sometimes I despair of ever learning Japanese. I can't even begin to comprehend what you've just written. :-(
– user3856370
yesterday
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
ある is used for inanimate objects and concepts/abstractions. 者 is an abstraction of "person/people" (for example, the way the words "those" and "some" can be used when speaking of people).
Your image that the narrator is slightly ridiculing those who suggested a fox hole, is pretty accurate. It's a very dismissive sentence. You are identifying そんな and も just fine.
Any translation has some wiggle room, always, so I feel that your translation is alright, though I might change "a person" to "some people" or "some":
「キツネの穴かな。」
"Could it be a fox hole?" / "I wonder if it's a fox hole."
そんなことを言った者もあった。
There were even some who said things like that.
answered 2 days ago
ericfromabeno
3,098418
1
宮沢賢治『雨ニモ負ケズ』ってご存じでしょう。「東に病気の子供あれば 行って看病してやり 西に疲れた母あれば 行ってその稲の束を負い 南に死にそうな人あれば 行ってこわがらなくてもいいといい...」とかね・・
– Chocolate♦
yesterday
@Chocolate Sometimes I despair of ever learning Japanese. I can't even begin to comprehend what you've just written. :-(
– user3856370
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
ある is used for inanimate objects and concepts/abstractions. 者 is an abstraction of "person/people" (for example, the way the words "those" and "some" can be used when speaking of people).
Your image that the narrator is slightly ridiculing those who suggested a fox hole, is pretty accurate. It's a very dismissive sentence. You are identifying そんな and も just fine.
Any translation has some wiggle room, always, so I feel that your translation is alright, though I might change "a person" to "some people" or "some":
「キツネの穴かな。」
"Could it be a fox hole?" / "I wonder if it's a fox hole."
そんなことを言った者もあった。
There were even some who said things like that.
answered 2 days ago
ericfromabeno
3,098418
1
宮沢賢治『雨ニモ負ケズ』ってご存じでしょう。「東に病気の子供あれば 行って看病してやり 西に疲れた母あれば 行ってその稲の束を負い 南に死にそうな人あれば 行ってこわがらなくてもいいといい...」とかね・・
– Chocolate♦
yesterday
@Chocolate Sometimes I despair of ever learning Japanese. I can't even begin to comprehend what you've just written. :-(
– user3856370
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
ある is used for inanimate objects and concepts/abstractions. 者 is an abstraction of "person/people" (for example, the way the words "those" and "some" can be used when speaking of people).
Your image that the narrator is slightly ridiculing those who suggested a fox hole, is pretty accurate. It's a very dismissive sentence. You are identifying そんな and も just fine.
Any translation has some wiggle room, always, so I feel that your translation is alright, though I might change "a person" to "some people" or "some":
「キツネの穴かな。」
"Could it be a fox hole?" / "I wonder if it's a fox hole."
そんなことを言った者もあった。
There were even some who said things like that.
answered 2 days ago
ericfromabeno
3,098418
ある is used for inanimate objects and concepts/abstractions. 者 is an abstraction of "person/people" (for example, the way the words "those" and "some" can be used when speaking of people).
Your image that the narrator is slightly ridiculing those who suggested a fox hole, is pretty accurate. It's a very dismissive sentence. You are identifying そんな and も just fine.
Any translation has some wiggle room, always, so I feel that your translation is alright, though I might change "a person" to "some people" or "some":
「キツネの穴かな。」
"Could it be a fox hole?" / "I wonder if it's a fox hole."
そんなことを言った者もあった。
There were even some who said things like that.
answered 2 days ago
ericfromabeno
3,098418
answered 2 days ago
ericfromabeno
3,098418
answered 2 days ago
ericfromabeno
3,098418
answered 2 days ago
ericfromabeno
3,098418
3,098418
1
宮沢賢治『雨ニモ負ケズ』ってご存じでしょう。「東に病気の子供あれば 行って看病してやり 西に疲れた母あれば 行ってその稲の束を負い 南に死にそうな人あれば 行ってこわがらなくてもいいといい...」とかね・・
– Chocolate♦
yesterday
@Chocolate Sometimes I despair of ever learning Japanese. I can't even begin to comprehend what you've just written. :-(
– user3856370
yesterday
add a comment |
1
宮沢賢治『雨ニモ負ケズ』ってご存じでしょう。「東に病気の子供あれば 行って看病してやり 西に疲れた母あれば 行ってその稲の束を負い 南に死にそうな人あれば 行ってこわがらなくてもいいといい...」とかね・・
– Chocolate♦
yesterday
@Chocolate Sometimes I despair of ever learning Japanese. I can't even begin to comprehend what you've just written. :-(
– user3856370
yesterday
1
1
宮沢賢治『雨ニモ負ケズ』ってご存じでしょう。「東に病気の子供あれば 行って看病してやり 西に疲れた母あれば 行ってその稲の束を負い 南に死にそうな人あれば 行ってこわがらなくてもいいといい...」とかね・・
– Chocolate♦
yesterday
宮沢賢治『雨ニモ負ケズ』ってご存じでしょう。「東に病気の子供あれば 行って看病してやり 西に疲れた母あれば 行ってその稲の束を負い 南に死にそうな人あれば 行ってこわがらなくてもいいといい...」とかね・・
– Chocolate♦
yesterday
@Chocolate Sometimes I despair of ever learning Japanese. I can't even begin to comprehend what you've just written. :-(
– user3856370
yesterday
@Chocolate Sometimes I despair of ever learning Japanese. I can't even begin to comprehend what you've just written. :-(
– user3856370
yesterday
add a comment |
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1
ある isn't limited to what we call "inanimate subject". It can be used also with living things, although it adds a certain nuance (and is unnatural in some cases)
– CSPP
2 days ago
1
Partly related, maybe? japanese.stackexchange.com/a/1914/9831
昔、ある所におじいさんとおばあさんがあった。– Chocolate♦
2 days ago
2
This page might be of some help... d.hatena.ne.jp/higonosuke/20050622
– Chocolate♦
2 days ago