Dihedral group $D_{8}$ as a semidirect product $Vrtimes C_2$?












3












$begingroup$


How do I show that the dihedral group $D_{8}$ (order $8$) is a semidirect product $Vrtimes leftlangle alpha rightrangle $, where $V$ is Klein group and $%
alpha $ is an automorphism of order two?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    3












    $begingroup$


    How do I show that the dihedral group $D_{8}$ (order $8$) is a semidirect product $Vrtimes leftlangle alpha rightrangle $, where $V$ is Klein group and $%
    alpha $ is an automorphism of order two?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      3












      3








      3


      2



      $begingroup$


      How do I show that the dihedral group $D_{8}$ (order $8$) is a semidirect product $Vrtimes leftlangle alpha rightrangle $, where $V$ is Klein group and $%
      alpha $ is an automorphism of order two?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      How do I show that the dihedral group $D_{8}$ (order $8$) is a semidirect product $Vrtimes leftlangle alpha rightrangle $, where $V$ is Klein group and $%
      alpha $ is an automorphism of order two?







      abstract-algebra group-theory finite-groups






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Nov 22 '12 at 7:55









      Alexander Gruber

      20.1k25102172




      20.1k25102172










      asked Nov 21 '12 at 19:22









      User2040User2040

      26018




      26018






















          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4












          $begingroup$

          If you know a bit more about group theory you could always do the following:




          1. There is a non-trivial semi-direct product of $V$ and $C_2$ since $mathrm{Aut}(V)$ contains an element of order $2$.


          2. The resulting group has order $8$ and is not abelian (we know that there is an element which acts non-trivial by conjugation).


          3. The resulting group has at least as many subgroups of order $2$ as $V$ so there are $3$ or more.



          Finally: There is only one non-Abelian group of order $8$ with more than one subgroup of order $2$ and that is $D_8$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$





















            5












            $begingroup$

            Depends on what you're using as your definition of $D_8$.



            One way would be to show that if you take $V=C_2times C_2$, $langle alpha rangle$ injects into the automorphism group of $V$, which is isomorphic to $GL_2(mathbb{F}_2)$, by mapping $alpha$ to $$left(begin{array}{cc}1&1\0&1end{array}right).$$
            Then show that the semidirect product defined by this automorphism is isomorphic to $D_8$ by whatever presentation you're using.



            You could try the same idea using permutation group notation, taking $V=langle(1,2),(3,4)rangle$ and mapping $alpha$ to the automorphism $$varphi_alpha:left{begin{array}{l}(1,2)mapsto (1,2)(3,4) \ (3,4)mapsto (3,4)end{array}right. .$$



            Or yet another variation would be the presentation $$langle r,s,t|r^2=s^2=t^2=[r,s]=[s,t]=1,r^t=rsrangle.$$



            It all depends how you want to do it, but this automorphism is the key.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              I see your points now here, Alexander, The Great. :)
              $endgroup$
              – mrs
              Nov 22 '12 at 7:40



















            2












            $begingroup$

            I think the following fact can help us:




            Let $H$, $K$ be groups and $$phi: H overset{text{hom}}{longrightarrow}text{Aut}(K)$$ be an automorphism of $K$. We denote for all $x$ in $X$; $phi(x)=phi_xin text{Aut}(K)$ Then the product $$Ktimes H$$ with the following rule can make it a new structure called the semi-product of $K$ by $H$ and denote that by $$Ktimes_{phi}H\(k,h)cdot(k',h')=(kphi_{h}(k'),hh')$$ In fact, the homomorphism $phi$ caused a rule for group operation.




            Now put $H=langle xmid x^p=1 rangle$ and $K=langle ymid y^{p^{m-1}}=1 rangle$ wherein $p$ is a prime and $minmathbb N$. We can consider $forall xin H, phi(x)=phi_x$ such that $phi_x(y)=x^{-1}yx, yin K$. Here, we have $$phi_{x}: y mapsto y^{p^{m-2}}$$ and it is really of order $p$. now by appling the above nwe structure we have: $$M_m(p)=langle x,ymid x^p=1,y^{p^{m-1}}=1,x^{-1}yx=y^{p^{m-2}}rangle$$



            It is easily be seen that $M_3(2)$ has the same presentation as $D_8$ has.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              ops! The group K the Klein would be??
              $endgroup$
              – User2040
              Nov 22 '12 at 0:13










            • $begingroup$
              @Lima: Actually, no. In fact $D_{2n}$ is an extension of $mathbb Z_n$ by $mathbb Z_2$. So $Kcongmathbb Z_4$ here. :)
              $endgroup$
              – mrs
              Nov 22 '12 at 4:00










            • $begingroup$
              @BabakSorouh It's also an extension of $V$ by $mathbb{Z}_2$.
              $endgroup$
              – Alexander Gruber
              Nov 22 '12 at 7:15










            • $begingroup$
              @AlexanderGruber: Isn't it because the automorphism groups of $Z_4$ and $V$ are the same group? I, recently, worked on one of Rotman's book and what I thought about $D_8$ above came from there.
              $endgroup$
              – mrs
              Nov 22 '12 at 7:38



















            1












            $begingroup$

            I like to think about $D_8$ as the group of invariants of a square.



            So the our group $V$ is given by the identity, the 2 reflections that have no fix points and their product which is 180°-rotation.



            Semidirect product can be characterized as split short exact sequences of groups. This is just a fancy way to say the following:



            Given a group $G$ and a normal subgroup $Nsubset G$. Denote by $pi:Gto G/N$ the projection map. Then $Gcong Nrtimes G/N$ iff there exists a homomorphism $phi: G/Nto G$, such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{G/N}$. This $phi$ is called a splitting homomorphism.



            Back to our dihedral group: $D_8/Vcong C_2$. In order to define a splitting homomorphism $C_2to D_8$ we need to find an element of order 2 that is not contained in $V$. Such an element is given by a reflection through one of the diagonals of our square. It is clear that $pi$ doesn't map t his element to $0in C_2$ because it does not lie in $V$. So we constructed a homomorphism $phi: C_2to D_8$ such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{C_2}$.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













              Your Answer





              StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
              return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
              StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
              StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
              });
              });
              }, "mathjax-editing");

              StackExchange.ready(function() {
              var channelOptions = {
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "69"
              };
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
              createEditor();
              });
              }
              else {
              createEditor();
              }
              });

              function createEditor() {
              StackExchange.prepareEditor({
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: true,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: 10,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader: {
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              },
              noCode: true, onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              });


              }
              });














              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function () {
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f242202%2fdihedral-group-d-8-as-a-semidirect-product-v-rtimes-c-2%23new-answer', 'question_page');
              }
              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              4 Answers
              4






              active

              oldest

              votes








              4 Answers
              4






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              4












              $begingroup$

              If you know a bit more about group theory you could always do the following:




              1. There is a non-trivial semi-direct product of $V$ and $C_2$ since $mathrm{Aut}(V)$ contains an element of order $2$.


              2. The resulting group has order $8$ and is not abelian (we know that there is an element which acts non-trivial by conjugation).


              3. The resulting group has at least as many subgroups of order $2$ as $V$ so there are $3$ or more.



              Finally: There is only one non-Abelian group of order $8$ with more than one subgroup of order $2$ and that is $D_8$.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                4












                $begingroup$

                If you know a bit more about group theory you could always do the following:




                1. There is a non-trivial semi-direct product of $V$ and $C_2$ since $mathrm{Aut}(V)$ contains an element of order $2$.


                2. The resulting group has order $8$ and is not abelian (we know that there is an element which acts non-trivial by conjugation).


                3. The resulting group has at least as many subgroups of order $2$ as $V$ so there are $3$ or more.



                Finally: There is only one non-Abelian group of order $8$ with more than one subgroup of order $2$ and that is $D_8$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  4












                  4








                  4





                  $begingroup$

                  If you know a bit more about group theory you could always do the following:




                  1. There is a non-trivial semi-direct product of $V$ and $C_2$ since $mathrm{Aut}(V)$ contains an element of order $2$.


                  2. The resulting group has order $8$ and is not abelian (we know that there is an element which acts non-trivial by conjugation).


                  3. The resulting group has at least as many subgroups of order $2$ as $V$ so there are $3$ or more.



                  Finally: There is only one non-Abelian group of order $8$ with more than one subgroup of order $2$ and that is $D_8$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  If you know a bit more about group theory you could always do the following:




                  1. There is a non-trivial semi-direct product of $V$ and $C_2$ since $mathrm{Aut}(V)$ contains an element of order $2$.


                  2. The resulting group has order $8$ and is not abelian (we know that there is an element which acts non-trivial by conjugation).


                  3. The resulting group has at least as many subgroups of order $2$ as $V$ so there are $3$ or more.



                  Finally: There is only one non-Abelian group of order $8$ with more than one subgroup of order $2$ and that is $D_8$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 22 '12 at 8:38









                  Sebastian SchoennenbeckSebastian Schoennenbeck

                  2,1421017




                  2,1421017























                      5












                      $begingroup$

                      Depends on what you're using as your definition of $D_8$.



                      One way would be to show that if you take $V=C_2times C_2$, $langle alpha rangle$ injects into the automorphism group of $V$, which is isomorphic to $GL_2(mathbb{F}_2)$, by mapping $alpha$ to $$left(begin{array}{cc}1&1\0&1end{array}right).$$
                      Then show that the semidirect product defined by this automorphism is isomorphic to $D_8$ by whatever presentation you're using.



                      You could try the same idea using permutation group notation, taking $V=langle(1,2),(3,4)rangle$ and mapping $alpha$ to the automorphism $$varphi_alpha:left{begin{array}{l}(1,2)mapsto (1,2)(3,4) \ (3,4)mapsto (3,4)end{array}right. .$$



                      Or yet another variation would be the presentation $$langle r,s,t|r^2=s^2=t^2=[r,s]=[s,t]=1,r^t=rsrangle.$$



                      It all depends how you want to do it, but this automorphism is the key.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        I see your points now here, Alexander, The Great. :)
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:40
















                      5












                      $begingroup$

                      Depends on what you're using as your definition of $D_8$.



                      One way would be to show that if you take $V=C_2times C_2$, $langle alpha rangle$ injects into the automorphism group of $V$, which is isomorphic to $GL_2(mathbb{F}_2)$, by mapping $alpha$ to $$left(begin{array}{cc}1&1\0&1end{array}right).$$
                      Then show that the semidirect product defined by this automorphism is isomorphic to $D_8$ by whatever presentation you're using.



                      You could try the same idea using permutation group notation, taking $V=langle(1,2),(3,4)rangle$ and mapping $alpha$ to the automorphism $$varphi_alpha:left{begin{array}{l}(1,2)mapsto (1,2)(3,4) \ (3,4)mapsto (3,4)end{array}right. .$$



                      Or yet another variation would be the presentation $$langle r,s,t|r^2=s^2=t^2=[r,s]=[s,t]=1,r^t=rsrangle.$$



                      It all depends how you want to do it, but this automorphism is the key.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        I see your points now here, Alexander, The Great. :)
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:40














                      5












                      5








                      5





                      $begingroup$

                      Depends on what you're using as your definition of $D_8$.



                      One way would be to show that if you take $V=C_2times C_2$, $langle alpha rangle$ injects into the automorphism group of $V$, which is isomorphic to $GL_2(mathbb{F}_2)$, by mapping $alpha$ to $$left(begin{array}{cc}1&1\0&1end{array}right).$$
                      Then show that the semidirect product defined by this automorphism is isomorphic to $D_8$ by whatever presentation you're using.



                      You could try the same idea using permutation group notation, taking $V=langle(1,2),(3,4)rangle$ and mapping $alpha$ to the automorphism $$varphi_alpha:left{begin{array}{l}(1,2)mapsto (1,2)(3,4) \ (3,4)mapsto (3,4)end{array}right. .$$



                      Or yet another variation would be the presentation $$langle r,s,t|r^2=s^2=t^2=[r,s]=[s,t]=1,r^t=rsrangle.$$



                      It all depends how you want to do it, but this automorphism is the key.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$



                      Depends on what you're using as your definition of $D_8$.



                      One way would be to show that if you take $V=C_2times C_2$, $langle alpha rangle$ injects into the automorphism group of $V$, which is isomorphic to $GL_2(mathbb{F}_2)$, by mapping $alpha$ to $$left(begin{array}{cc}1&1\0&1end{array}right).$$
                      Then show that the semidirect product defined by this automorphism is isomorphic to $D_8$ by whatever presentation you're using.



                      You could try the same idea using permutation group notation, taking $V=langle(1,2),(3,4)rangle$ and mapping $alpha$ to the automorphism $$varphi_alpha:left{begin{array}{l}(1,2)mapsto (1,2)(3,4) \ (3,4)mapsto (3,4)end{array}right. .$$



                      Or yet another variation would be the presentation $$langle r,s,t|r^2=s^2=t^2=[r,s]=[s,t]=1,r^t=rsrangle.$$



                      It all depends how you want to do it, but this automorphism is the key.







                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      edited Nov 22 '12 at 2:11

























                      answered Nov 22 '12 at 1:59









                      Alexander GruberAlexander Gruber

                      20.1k25102172




                      20.1k25102172












                      • $begingroup$
                        I see your points now here, Alexander, The Great. :)
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:40


















                      • $begingroup$
                        I see your points now here, Alexander, The Great. :)
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:40
















                      $begingroup$
                      I see your points now here, Alexander, The Great. :)
                      $endgroup$
                      – mrs
                      Nov 22 '12 at 7:40




                      $begingroup$
                      I see your points now here, Alexander, The Great. :)
                      $endgroup$
                      – mrs
                      Nov 22 '12 at 7:40











                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      I think the following fact can help us:




                      Let $H$, $K$ be groups and $$phi: H overset{text{hom}}{longrightarrow}text{Aut}(K)$$ be an automorphism of $K$. We denote for all $x$ in $X$; $phi(x)=phi_xin text{Aut}(K)$ Then the product $$Ktimes H$$ with the following rule can make it a new structure called the semi-product of $K$ by $H$ and denote that by $$Ktimes_{phi}H\(k,h)cdot(k',h')=(kphi_{h}(k'),hh')$$ In fact, the homomorphism $phi$ caused a rule for group operation.




                      Now put $H=langle xmid x^p=1 rangle$ and $K=langle ymid y^{p^{m-1}}=1 rangle$ wherein $p$ is a prime and $minmathbb N$. We can consider $forall xin H, phi(x)=phi_x$ such that $phi_x(y)=x^{-1}yx, yin K$. Here, we have $$phi_{x}: y mapsto y^{p^{m-2}}$$ and it is really of order $p$. now by appling the above nwe structure we have: $$M_m(p)=langle x,ymid x^p=1,y^{p^{m-1}}=1,x^{-1}yx=y^{p^{m-2}}rangle$$



                      It is easily be seen that $M_3(2)$ has the same presentation as $D_8$ has.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        ops! The group K the Klein would be??
                        $endgroup$
                        – User2040
                        Nov 22 '12 at 0:13










                      • $begingroup$
                        @Lima: Actually, no. In fact $D_{2n}$ is an extension of $mathbb Z_n$ by $mathbb Z_2$. So $Kcongmathbb Z_4$ here. :)
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 4:00










                      • $begingroup$
                        @BabakSorouh It's also an extension of $V$ by $mathbb{Z}_2$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Alexander Gruber
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:15










                      • $begingroup$
                        @AlexanderGruber: Isn't it because the automorphism groups of $Z_4$ and $V$ are the same group? I, recently, worked on one of Rotman's book and what I thought about $D_8$ above came from there.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:38
















                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      I think the following fact can help us:




                      Let $H$, $K$ be groups and $$phi: H overset{text{hom}}{longrightarrow}text{Aut}(K)$$ be an automorphism of $K$. We denote for all $x$ in $X$; $phi(x)=phi_xin text{Aut}(K)$ Then the product $$Ktimes H$$ with the following rule can make it a new structure called the semi-product of $K$ by $H$ and denote that by $$Ktimes_{phi}H\(k,h)cdot(k',h')=(kphi_{h}(k'),hh')$$ In fact, the homomorphism $phi$ caused a rule for group operation.




                      Now put $H=langle xmid x^p=1 rangle$ and $K=langle ymid y^{p^{m-1}}=1 rangle$ wherein $p$ is a prime and $minmathbb N$. We can consider $forall xin H, phi(x)=phi_x$ such that $phi_x(y)=x^{-1}yx, yin K$. Here, we have $$phi_{x}: y mapsto y^{p^{m-2}}$$ and it is really of order $p$. now by appling the above nwe structure we have: $$M_m(p)=langle x,ymid x^p=1,y^{p^{m-1}}=1,x^{-1}yx=y^{p^{m-2}}rangle$$



                      It is easily be seen that $M_3(2)$ has the same presentation as $D_8$ has.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        ops! The group K the Klein would be??
                        $endgroup$
                        – User2040
                        Nov 22 '12 at 0:13










                      • $begingroup$
                        @Lima: Actually, no. In fact $D_{2n}$ is an extension of $mathbb Z_n$ by $mathbb Z_2$. So $Kcongmathbb Z_4$ here. :)
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 4:00










                      • $begingroup$
                        @BabakSorouh It's also an extension of $V$ by $mathbb{Z}_2$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Alexander Gruber
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:15










                      • $begingroup$
                        @AlexanderGruber: Isn't it because the automorphism groups of $Z_4$ and $V$ are the same group? I, recently, worked on one of Rotman's book and what I thought about $D_8$ above came from there.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:38














                      2












                      2








                      2





                      $begingroup$

                      I think the following fact can help us:




                      Let $H$, $K$ be groups and $$phi: H overset{text{hom}}{longrightarrow}text{Aut}(K)$$ be an automorphism of $K$. We denote for all $x$ in $X$; $phi(x)=phi_xin text{Aut}(K)$ Then the product $$Ktimes H$$ with the following rule can make it a new structure called the semi-product of $K$ by $H$ and denote that by $$Ktimes_{phi}H\(k,h)cdot(k',h')=(kphi_{h}(k'),hh')$$ In fact, the homomorphism $phi$ caused a rule for group operation.




                      Now put $H=langle xmid x^p=1 rangle$ and $K=langle ymid y^{p^{m-1}}=1 rangle$ wherein $p$ is a prime and $minmathbb N$. We can consider $forall xin H, phi(x)=phi_x$ such that $phi_x(y)=x^{-1}yx, yin K$. Here, we have $$phi_{x}: y mapsto y^{p^{m-2}}$$ and it is really of order $p$. now by appling the above nwe structure we have: $$M_m(p)=langle x,ymid x^p=1,y^{p^{m-1}}=1,x^{-1}yx=y^{p^{m-2}}rangle$$



                      It is easily be seen that $M_3(2)$ has the same presentation as $D_8$ has.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$



                      I think the following fact can help us:




                      Let $H$, $K$ be groups and $$phi: H overset{text{hom}}{longrightarrow}text{Aut}(K)$$ be an automorphism of $K$. We denote for all $x$ in $X$; $phi(x)=phi_xin text{Aut}(K)$ Then the product $$Ktimes H$$ with the following rule can make it a new structure called the semi-product of $K$ by $H$ and denote that by $$Ktimes_{phi}H\(k,h)cdot(k',h')=(kphi_{h}(k'),hh')$$ In fact, the homomorphism $phi$ caused a rule for group operation.




                      Now put $H=langle xmid x^p=1 rangle$ and $K=langle ymid y^{p^{m-1}}=1 rangle$ wherein $p$ is a prime and $minmathbb N$. We can consider $forall xin H, phi(x)=phi_x$ such that $phi_x(y)=x^{-1}yx, yin K$. Here, we have $$phi_{x}: y mapsto y^{p^{m-2}}$$ and it is really of order $p$. now by appling the above nwe structure we have: $$M_m(p)=langle x,ymid x^p=1,y^{p^{m-1}}=1,x^{-1}yx=y^{p^{m-2}}rangle$$



                      It is easily be seen that $M_3(2)$ has the same presentation as $D_8$ has.







                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      edited Dec 31 '18 at 14:54









                      Shaun

                      9,310113684




                      9,310113684










                      answered Nov 21 '12 at 20:34









                      mrsmrs

                      1




                      1












                      • $begingroup$
                        ops! The group K the Klein would be??
                        $endgroup$
                        – User2040
                        Nov 22 '12 at 0:13










                      • $begingroup$
                        @Lima: Actually, no. In fact $D_{2n}$ is an extension of $mathbb Z_n$ by $mathbb Z_2$. So $Kcongmathbb Z_4$ here. :)
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 4:00










                      • $begingroup$
                        @BabakSorouh It's also an extension of $V$ by $mathbb{Z}_2$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Alexander Gruber
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:15










                      • $begingroup$
                        @AlexanderGruber: Isn't it because the automorphism groups of $Z_4$ and $V$ are the same group? I, recently, worked on one of Rotman's book and what I thought about $D_8$ above came from there.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:38


















                      • $begingroup$
                        ops! The group K the Klein would be??
                        $endgroup$
                        – User2040
                        Nov 22 '12 at 0:13










                      • $begingroup$
                        @Lima: Actually, no. In fact $D_{2n}$ is an extension of $mathbb Z_n$ by $mathbb Z_2$. So $Kcongmathbb Z_4$ here. :)
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 4:00










                      • $begingroup$
                        @BabakSorouh It's also an extension of $V$ by $mathbb{Z}_2$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Alexander Gruber
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:15










                      • $begingroup$
                        @AlexanderGruber: Isn't it because the automorphism groups of $Z_4$ and $V$ are the same group? I, recently, worked on one of Rotman's book and what I thought about $D_8$ above came from there.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mrs
                        Nov 22 '12 at 7:38
















                      $begingroup$
                      ops! The group K the Klein would be??
                      $endgroup$
                      – User2040
                      Nov 22 '12 at 0:13




                      $begingroup$
                      ops! The group K the Klein would be??
                      $endgroup$
                      – User2040
                      Nov 22 '12 at 0:13












                      $begingroup$
                      @Lima: Actually, no. In fact $D_{2n}$ is an extension of $mathbb Z_n$ by $mathbb Z_2$. So $Kcongmathbb Z_4$ here. :)
                      $endgroup$
                      – mrs
                      Nov 22 '12 at 4:00




                      $begingroup$
                      @Lima: Actually, no. In fact $D_{2n}$ is an extension of $mathbb Z_n$ by $mathbb Z_2$. So $Kcongmathbb Z_4$ here. :)
                      $endgroup$
                      – mrs
                      Nov 22 '12 at 4:00












                      $begingroup$
                      @BabakSorouh It's also an extension of $V$ by $mathbb{Z}_2$.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Alexander Gruber
                      Nov 22 '12 at 7:15




                      $begingroup$
                      @BabakSorouh It's also an extension of $V$ by $mathbb{Z}_2$.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Alexander Gruber
                      Nov 22 '12 at 7:15












                      $begingroup$
                      @AlexanderGruber: Isn't it because the automorphism groups of $Z_4$ and $V$ are the same group? I, recently, worked on one of Rotman's book and what I thought about $D_8$ above came from there.
                      $endgroup$
                      – mrs
                      Nov 22 '12 at 7:38




                      $begingroup$
                      @AlexanderGruber: Isn't it because the automorphism groups of $Z_4$ and $V$ are the same group? I, recently, worked on one of Rotman's book and what I thought about $D_8$ above came from there.
                      $endgroup$
                      – mrs
                      Nov 22 '12 at 7:38











                      1












                      $begingroup$

                      I like to think about $D_8$ as the group of invariants of a square.



                      So the our group $V$ is given by the identity, the 2 reflections that have no fix points and their product which is 180°-rotation.



                      Semidirect product can be characterized as split short exact sequences of groups. This is just a fancy way to say the following:



                      Given a group $G$ and a normal subgroup $Nsubset G$. Denote by $pi:Gto G/N$ the projection map. Then $Gcong Nrtimes G/N$ iff there exists a homomorphism $phi: G/Nto G$, such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{G/N}$. This $phi$ is called a splitting homomorphism.



                      Back to our dihedral group: $D_8/Vcong C_2$. In order to define a splitting homomorphism $C_2to D_8$ we need to find an element of order 2 that is not contained in $V$. Such an element is given by a reflection through one of the diagonals of our square. It is clear that $pi$ doesn't map t his element to $0in C_2$ because it does not lie in $V$. So we constructed a homomorphism $phi: C_2to D_8$ such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{C_2}$.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$


















                        1












                        $begingroup$

                        I like to think about $D_8$ as the group of invariants of a square.



                        So the our group $V$ is given by the identity, the 2 reflections that have no fix points and their product which is 180°-rotation.



                        Semidirect product can be characterized as split short exact sequences of groups. This is just a fancy way to say the following:



                        Given a group $G$ and a normal subgroup $Nsubset G$. Denote by $pi:Gto G/N$ the projection map. Then $Gcong Nrtimes G/N$ iff there exists a homomorphism $phi: G/Nto G$, such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{G/N}$. This $phi$ is called a splitting homomorphism.



                        Back to our dihedral group: $D_8/Vcong C_2$. In order to define a splitting homomorphism $C_2to D_8$ we need to find an element of order 2 that is not contained in $V$. Such an element is given by a reflection through one of the diagonals of our square. It is clear that $pi$ doesn't map t his element to $0in C_2$ because it does not lie in $V$. So we constructed a homomorphism $phi: C_2to D_8$ such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{C_2}$.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$
















                          1












                          1








                          1





                          $begingroup$

                          I like to think about $D_8$ as the group of invariants of a square.



                          So the our group $V$ is given by the identity, the 2 reflections that have no fix points and their product which is 180°-rotation.



                          Semidirect product can be characterized as split short exact sequences of groups. This is just a fancy way to say the following:



                          Given a group $G$ and a normal subgroup $Nsubset G$. Denote by $pi:Gto G/N$ the projection map. Then $Gcong Nrtimes G/N$ iff there exists a homomorphism $phi: G/Nto G$, such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{G/N}$. This $phi$ is called a splitting homomorphism.



                          Back to our dihedral group: $D_8/Vcong C_2$. In order to define a splitting homomorphism $C_2to D_8$ we need to find an element of order 2 that is not contained in $V$. Such an element is given by a reflection through one of the diagonals of our square. It is clear that $pi$ doesn't map t his element to $0in C_2$ because it does not lie in $V$. So we constructed a homomorphism $phi: C_2to D_8$ such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{C_2}$.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          I like to think about $D_8$ as the group of invariants of a square.



                          So the our group $V$ is given by the identity, the 2 reflections that have no fix points and their product which is 180°-rotation.



                          Semidirect product can be characterized as split short exact sequences of groups. This is just a fancy way to say the following:



                          Given a group $G$ and a normal subgroup $Nsubset G$. Denote by $pi:Gto G/N$ the projection map. Then $Gcong Nrtimes G/N$ iff there exists a homomorphism $phi: G/Nto G$, such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{G/N}$. This $phi$ is called a splitting homomorphism.



                          Back to our dihedral group: $D_8/Vcong C_2$. In order to define a splitting homomorphism $C_2to D_8$ we need to find an element of order 2 that is not contained in $V$. Such an element is given by a reflection through one of the diagonals of our square. It is clear that $pi$ doesn't map t his element to $0in C_2$ because it does not lie in $V$. So we constructed a homomorphism $phi: C_2to D_8$ such that $picircphi=mathrm{id}_{C_2}$.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered Nov 22 '12 at 11:23









                          CurufinCurufin

                          30716




                          30716






























                              draft saved

                              draft discarded




















































                              Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid



                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                              Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function () {
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f242202%2fdihedral-group-d-8-as-a-semidirect-product-v-rtimes-c-2%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                              }
                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              Mont Emei

                              Province de Neuquén

                              Soliste