Please help explain the maths of this diffusion model












0












$begingroup$


Diffusion model



Could anyone help with my understanding of the maths in this excerpt from a physiology textbook (please see link).



The authors describe a model of gas diffusion across the length of an alveolar capillary.





  • $dot Q$ is blood flow through the capillary in ml/min


  • $beta$ is the capacitance coefficient for blood. It is the increment of total content of oxygen in blood per
    increment in partial pressure - mmol/(kPa*ml)


  • $dot Qbeta$ is known as the perfusion conductance - mmol/(min* kPa)

  • D is the diffusing capacity of the lung - mmol/min*kPa

  • P is partial pressure of gas


  • $P_A$ is the partial pressure of gas in the alveoli


  • $P_V$ is the partial pressure of gas in the veins


  • $P_C$ is the 'partial pressure' of gas in the capillary


  • $x$ is a distance along the capillary


  • $x_0$ is distal end the capillary


  • $P_{Cx}$ is the partial pressure of gas in the capillary at position $x$


The equation in figure A of the book is this:
$$Equationquad 1: qquad dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C= (P_A-P_C) cdot dD$$



This makes sense to me as a mass balance equation:



$dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C$ as above is the perfusion conductance - this is the amount of gas that is removed from the alveoli per kPa of partial pressure per minute



$(P_A-P_C) cdot dD$ is the amount of gas that diffuses across the alveolar membrane per kPa of partial pressure per minute



The authors then describe how this equation is 'integrated' for $P_C$ at a distance $x$ from the distal end of the capillary i.e. $P_{Cx}$. This integration yields the equation seen in figure B:



$$Equationquad 2: qquad {P_{Cx} – P_V over P_A – P_V} = 1-e{^-}^{Doverdot Q cdot beta}{^cdot}{^ {x over x_0}}$$



This is where my rudimentary maths lets me down. I don't understand how the authors get from equation 1 to equation 2. Perhaps, it's quite simple but could you explain how the integration is performed?



Thank you very much



M










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  • $begingroup$
    Please format your question, so we can read it. See this tutorial math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… Then make sure your formulas are correct (I see that you are missing some parentheses). Then explain a little bit more about the problem. How is Q related to problem? What is C (or dC)? I've seen something about x. Also, what are the constants, and what is what you want to prove?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 28 '18 at 1:56










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks Andrei, I have edited the question as you suggested. Does it make more sense now?
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 11:11
















0












$begingroup$


Diffusion model



Could anyone help with my understanding of the maths in this excerpt from a physiology textbook (please see link).



The authors describe a model of gas diffusion across the length of an alveolar capillary.





  • $dot Q$ is blood flow through the capillary in ml/min


  • $beta$ is the capacitance coefficient for blood. It is the increment of total content of oxygen in blood per
    increment in partial pressure - mmol/(kPa*ml)


  • $dot Qbeta$ is known as the perfusion conductance - mmol/(min* kPa)

  • D is the diffusing capacity of the lung - mmol/min*kPa

  • P is partial pressure of gas


  • $P_A$ is the partial pressure of gas in the alveoli


  • $P_V$ is the partial pressure of gas in the veins


  • $P_C$ is the 'partial pressure' of gas in the capillary


  • $x$ is a distance along the capillary


  • $x_0$ is distal end the capillary


  • $P_{Cx}$ is the partial pressure of gas in the capillary at position $x$


The equation in figure A of the book is this:
$$Equationquad 1: qquad dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C= (P_A-P_C) cdot dD$$



This makes sense to me as a mass balance equation:



$dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C$ as above is the perfusion conductance - this is the amount of gas that is removed from the alveoli per kPa of partial pressure per minute



$(P_A-P_C) cdot dD$ is the amount of gas that diffuses across the alveolar membrane per kPa of partial pressure per minute



The authors then describe how this equation is 'integrated' for $P_C$ at a distance $x$ from the distal end of the capillary i.e. $P_{Cx}$. This integration yields the equation seen in figure B:



$$Equationquad 2: qquad {P_{Cx} – P_V over P_A – P_V} = 1-e{^-}^{Doverdot Q cdot beta}{^cdot}{^ {x over x_0}}$$



This is where my rudimentary maths lets me down. I don't understand how the authors get from equation 1 to equation 2. Perhaps, it's quite simple but could you explain how the integration is performed?



Thank you very much



M










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Please format your question, so we can read it. See this tutorial math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… Then make sure your formulas are correct (I see that you are missing some parentheses). Then explain a little bit more about the problem. How is Q related to problem? What is C (or dC)? I've seen something about x. Also, what are the constants, and what is what you want to prove?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 28 '18 at 1:56










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks Andrei, I have edited the question as you suggested. Does it make more sense now?
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 11:11














0












0








0





$begingroup$


Diffusion model



Could anyone help with my understanding of the maths in this excerpt from a physiology textbook (please see link).



The authors describe a model of gas diffusion across the length of an alveolar capillary.





  • $dot Q$ is blood flow through the capillary in ml/min


  • $beta$ is the capacitance coefficient for blood. It is the increment of total content of oxygen in blood per
    increment in partial pressure - mmol/(kPa*ml)


  • $dot Qbeta$ is known as the perfusion conductance - mmol/(min* kPa)

  • D is the diffusing capacity of the lung - mmol/min*kPa

  • P is partial pressure of gas


  • $P_A$ is the partial pressure of gas in the alveoli


  • $P_V$ is the partial pressure of gas in the veins


  • $P_C$ is the 'partial pressure' of gas in the capillary


  • $x$ is a distance along the capillary


  • $x_0$ is distal end the capillary


  • $P_{Cx}$ is the partial pressure of gas in the capillary at position $x$


The equation in figure A of the book is this:
$$Equationquad 1: qquad dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C= (P_A-P_C) cdot dD$$



This makes sense to me as a mass balance equation:



$dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C$ as above is the perfusion conductance - this is the amount of gas that is removed from the alveoli per kPa of partial pressure per minute



$(P_A-P_C) cdot dD$ is the amount of gas that diffuses across the alveolar membrane per kPa of partial pressure per minute



The authors then describe how this equation is 'integrated' for $P_C$ at a distance $x$ from the distal end of the capillary i.e. $P_{Cx}$. This integration yields the equation seen in figure B:



$$Equationquad 2: qquad {P_{Cx} – P_V over P_A – P_V} = 1-e{^-}^{Doverdot Q cdot beta}{^cdot}{^ {x over x_0}}$$



This is where my rudimentary maths lets me down. I don't understand how the authors get from equation 1 to equation 2. Perhaps, it's quite simple but could you explain how the integration is performed?



Thank you very much



M










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Diffusion model



Could anyone help with my understanding of the maths in this excerpt from a physiology textbook (please see link).



The authors describe a model of gas diffusion across the length of an alveolar capillary.





  • $dot Q$ is blood flow through the capillary in ml/min


  • $beta$ is the capacitance coefficient for blood. It is the increment of total content of oxygen in blood per
    increment in partial pressure - mmol/(kPa*ml)


  • $dot Qbeta$ is known as the perfusion conductance - mmol/(min* kPa)

  • D is the diffusing capacity of the lung - mmol/min*kPa

  • P is partial pressure of gas


  • $P_A$ is the partial pressure of gas in the alveoli


  • $P_V$ is the partial pressure of gas in the veins


  • $P_C$ is the 'partial pressure' of gas in the capillary


  • $x$ is a distance along the capillary


  • $x_0$ is distal end the capillary


  • $P_{Cx}$ is the partial pressure of gas in the capillary at position $x$


The equation in figure A of the book is this:
$$Equationquad 1: qquad dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C= (P_A-P_C) cdot dD$$



This makes sense to me as a mass balance equation:



$dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C$ as above is the perfusion conductance - this is the amount of gas that is removed from the alveoli per kPa of partial pressure per minute



$(P_A-P_C) cdot dD$ is the amount of gas that diffuses across the alveolar membrane per kPa of partial pressure per minute



The authors then describe how this equation is 'integrated' for $P_C$ at a distance $x$ from the distal end of the capillary i.e. $P_{Cx}$. This integration yields the equation seen in figure B:



$$Equationquad 2: qquad {P_{Cx} – P_V over P_A – P_V} = 1-e{^-}^{Doverdot Q cdot beta}{^cdot}{^ {x over x_0}}$$



This is where my rudimentary maths lets me down. I don't understand how the authors get from equation 1 to equation 2. Perhaps, it's quite simple but could you explain how the integration is performed?



Thank you very much



M







integration exponential-function






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edited Jan 29 at 18:13









YuiTo Cheng

1,8372632




1,8372632










asked Dec 28 '18 at 0:17









Mark SandfordMark Sandford

32




32












  • $begingroup$
    Please format your question, so we can read it. See this tutorial math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… Then make sure your formulas are correct (I see that you are missing some parentheses). Then explain a little bit more about the problem. How is Q related to problem? What is C (or dC)? I've seen something about x. Also, what are the constants, and what is what you want to prove?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 28 '18 at 1:56










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks Andrei, I have edited the question as you suggested. Does it make more sense now?
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 11:11


















  • $begingroup$
    Please format your question, so we can read it. See this tutorial math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… Then make sure your formulas are correct (I see that you are missing some parentheses). Then explain a little bit more about the problem. How is Q related to problem? What is C (or dC)? I've seen something about x. Also, what are the constants, and what is what you want to prove?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 28 '18 at 1:56










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks Andrei, I have edited the question as you suggested. Does it make more sense now?
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 11:11
















$begingroup$
Please format your question, so we can read it. See this tutorial math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… Then make sure your formulas are correct (I see that you are missing some parentheses). Then explain a little bit more about the problem. How is Q related to problem? What is C (or dC)? I've seen something about x. Also, what are the constants, and what is what you want to prove?
$endgroup$
– Andrei
Dec 28 '18 at 1:56




$begingroup$
Please format your question, so we can read it. See this tutorial math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… Then make sure your formulas are correct (I see that you are missing some parentheses). Then explain a little bit more about the problem. How is Q related to problem? What is C (or dC)? I've seen something about x. Also, what are the constants, and what is what you want to prove?
$endgroup$
– Andrei
Dec 28 '18 at 1:56












$begingroup$
Thanks Andrei, I have edited the question as you suggested. Does it make more sense now?
$endgroup$
– Mark Sandford
Dec 28 '18 at 11:11




$begingroup$
Thanks Andrei, I have edited the question as you suggested. Does it make more sense now?
$endgroup$
– Mark Sandford
Dec 28 '18 at 11:11










1 Answer
1






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0












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There seems to be an assumption that $dD=Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$. Then the equation becomes $$ dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C= (P_A-P_C) cdot Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$$ We can then move all the pressures to the left hand side
$$frac {dP_C}{P_A-P_C}=frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{dx}{x_0}$$
You need to integrate both sides. We can multiply both sides with $-1$. The limits of integration can be found from the figure. At $x=0$ you have $P_C(0)=P_V$. If you would have an infinite amount of $x$ you would get to $P_C(infty)=P_A$
Integrating left hand side between $P_V$ and $P_C(x)$ we get $$ln(P_C(x)-P_A)-ln(P_V-P_A)=lnfrac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}$$
Similarly, integrating the right hand side from $0$ to $x$ we get $$-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}$$
we can now equate the two expressions, then use "If $a=b$ then $e^a=e^b$" to get $$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}=e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$
Multiply both sides with $-1$ to change the denominator in the left hand side:
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=-e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$Then add and subtract $P_V$ in the numerator on the left
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V+P_V-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-frac{P_A-P_V}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-1$$
Now moving the $-1$ from the left hand side to the right hand side yields your equation.






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$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thanks again Andrei. This looks like the solution! I need to do some reading on how you actually performed the integrations that you used. Please can you tell me what this type of integration is called so that I can look for some resources?
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:31










  • $begingroup$
    $intfrac 1x dx=ln x$ and $int dx=x$. The rest is just constants and change of variable.
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:35












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks very much Andrei, all much appreciated
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 22:58











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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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$begingroup$

There seems to be an assumption that $dD=Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$. Then the equation becomes $$ dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C= (P_A-P_C) cdot Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$$ We can then move all the pressures to the left hand side
$$frac {dP_C}{P_A-P_C}=frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{dx}{x_0}$$
You need to integrate both sides. We can multiply both sides with $-1$. The limits of integration can be found from the figure. At $x=0$ you have $P_C(0)=P_V$. If you would have an infinite amount of $x$ you would get to $P_C(infty)=P_A$
Integrating left hand side between $P_V$ and $P_C(x)$ we get $$ln(P_C(x)-P_A)-ln(P_V-P_A)=lnfrac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}$$
Similarly, integrating the right hand side from $0$ to $x$ we get $$-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}$$
we can now equate the two expressions, then use "If $a=b$ then $e^a=e^b$" to get $$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}=e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$
Multiply both sides with $-1$ to change the denominator in the left hand side:
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=-e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$Then add and subtract $P_V$ in the numerator on the left
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V+P_V-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-frac{P_A-P_V}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-1$$
Now moving the $-1$ from the left hand side to the right hand side yields your equation.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thanks again Andrei. This looks like the solution! I need to do some reading on how you actually performed the integrations that you used. Please can you tell me what this type of integration is called so that I can look for some resources?
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:31










  • $begingroup$
    $intfrac 1x dx=ln x$ and $int dx=x$. The rest is just constants and change of variable.
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:35












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks very much Andrei, all much appreciated
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 22:58
















0












$begingroup$

There seems to be an assumption that $dD=Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$. Then the equation becomes $$ dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C= (P_A-P_C) cdot Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$$ We can then move all the pressures to the left hand side
$$frac {dP_C}{P_A-P_C}=frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{dx}{x_0}$$
You need to integrate both sides. We can multiply both sides with $-1$. The limits of integration can be found from the figure. At $x=0$ you have $P_C(0)=P_V$. If you would have an infinite amount of $x$ you would get to $P_C(infty)=P_A$
Integrating left hand side between $P_V$ and $P_C(x)$ we get $$ln(P_C(x)-P_A)-ln(P_V-P_A)=lnfrac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}$$
Similarly, integrating the right hand side from $0$ to $x$ we get $$-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}$$
we can now equate the two expressions, then use "If $a=b$ then $e^a=e^b$" to get $$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}=e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$
Multiply both sides with $-1$ to change the denominator in the left hand side:
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=-e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$Then add and subtract $P_V$ in the numerator on the left
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V+P_V-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-frac{P_A-P_V}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-1$$
Now moving the $-1$ from the left hand side to the right hand side yields your equation.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thanks again Andrei. This looks like the solution! I need to do some reading on how you actually performed the integrations that you used. Please can you tell me what this type of integration is called so that I can look for some resources?
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:31










  • $begingroup$
    $intfrac 1x dx=ln x$ and $int dx=x$. The rest is just constants and change of variable.
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:35












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks very much Andrei, all much appreciated
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 22:58














0












0








0





$begingroup$

There seems to be an assumption that $dD=Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$. Then the equation becomes $$ dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C= (P_A-P_C) cdot Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$$ We can then move all the pressures to the left hand side
$$frac {dP_C}{P_A-P_C}=frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{dx}{x_0}$$
You need to integrate both sides. We can multiply both sides with $-1$. The limits of integration can be found from the figure. At $x=0$ you have $P_C(0)=P_V$. If you would have an infinite amount of $x$ you would get to $P_C(infty)=P_A$
Integrating left hand side between $P_V$ and $P_C(x)$ we get $$ln(P_C(x)-P_A)-ln(P_V-P_A)=lnfrac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}$$
Similarly, integrating the right hand side from $0$ to $x$ we get $$-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}$$
we can now equate the two expressions, then use "If $a=b$ then $e^a=e^b$" to get $$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}=e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$
Multiply both sides with $-1$ to change the denominator in the left hand side:
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=-e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$Then add and subtract $P_V$ in the numerator on the left
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V+P_V-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-frac{P_A-P_V}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-1$$
Now moving the $-1$ from the left hand side to the right hand side yields your equation.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



There seems to be an assumption that $dD=Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$. Then the equation becomes $$ dot Q cdot beta cdot dP_C= (P_A-P_C) cdot Dcdot frac{dx}{x_0}$$ We can then move all the pressures to the left hand side
$$frac {dP_C}{P_A-P_C}=frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{dx}{x_0}$$
You need to integrate both sides. We can multiply both sides with $-1$. The limits of integration can be found from the figure. At $x=0$ you have $P_C(0)=P_V$. If you would have an infinite amount of $x$ you would get to $P_C(infty)=P_A$
Integrating left hand side between $P_V$ and $P_C(x)$ we get $$ln(P_C(x)-P_A)-ln(P_V-P_A)=lnfrac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}$$
Similarly, integrating the right hand side from $0$ to $x$ we get $$-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}$$
we can now equate the two expressions, then use "If $a=b$ then $e^a=e^b$" to get $$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_V-P_A}=e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$
Multiply both sides with $-1$ to change the denominator in the left hand side:
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=-e^{-frac D{dot Qbeta} frac{x}{x_0}}$$Then add and subtract $P_V$ in the numerator on the left
$$frac{P_C(x)-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V+P_V-P_A}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-frac{P_A-P_V}{P_A-P_V}=frac{P_C(x)-P_V}{P_A-P_V}-1$$
Now moving the $-1$ from the left hand side to the right hand side yields your equation.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Dec 28 '18 at 13:57









AndreiAndrei

12.4k21128




12.4k21128












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks again Andrei. This looks like the solution! I need to do some reading on how you actually performed the integrations that you used. Please can you tell me what this type of integration is called so that I can look for some resources?
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:31










  • $begingroup$
    $intfrac 1x dx=ln x$ and $int dx=x$. The rest is just constants and change of variable.
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:35












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks very much Andrei, all much appreciated
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 22:58


















  • $begingroup$
    Thanks again Andrei. This looks like the solution! I need to do some reading on how you actually performed the integrations that you used. Please can you tell me what this type of integration is called so that I can look for some resources?
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:31










  • $begingroup$
    $intfrac 1x dx=ln x$ and $int dx=x$. The rest is just constants and change of variable.
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 28 '18 at 18:35












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks very much Andrei, all much appreciated
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Sandford
    Dec 28 '18 at 22:58
















$begingroup$
Thanks again Andrei. This looks like the solution! I need to do some reading on how you actually performed the integrations that you used. Please can you tell me what this type of integration is called so that I can look for some resources?
$endgroup$
– Mark Sandford
Dec 28 '18 at 18:31




$begingroup$
Thanks again Andrei. This looks like the solution! I need to do some reading on how you actually performed the integrations that you used. Please can you tell me what this type of integration is called so that I can look for some resources?
$endgroup$
– Mark Sandford
Dec 28 '18 at 18:31












$begingroup$
$intfrac 1x dx=ln x$ and $int dx=x$. The rest is just constants and change of variable.
$endgroup$
– Andrei
Dec 28 '18 at 18:35






$begingroup$
$intfrac 1x dx=ln x$ and $int dx=x$. The rest is just constants and change of variable.
$endgroup$
– Andrei
Dec 28 '18 at 18:35














$begingroup$
Thanks very much Andrei, all much appreciated
$endgroup$
– Mark Sandford
Dec 28 '18 at 22:58




$begingroup$
Thanks very much Andrei, all much appreciated
$endgroup$
– Mark Sandford
Dec 28 '18 at 22:58


















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