What do “3 different points” have to do with linear dependence in determining a unique circle?












3












$begingroup$


In learning about the general formula for a circle:
$$(x-h)^2 + (y-k)^2 = r^2$$
my book states that $3$ points are sufficient to guarantee the solution (or absence of solution) for an unique circle.



It follows this up by explaining that $3$ different points creates $3$ different equations...namely:



1) $(x_1-h)^2 + (y_1-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_1,y_1);$ is the first point provided

2) $(x_2-h)^2 + (y_2-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_2,y_2);$ is the second point provided

3) $(x_3-h)^2 + (y_3-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_3,y_3);$ is the third point provided



I'm okay with this as I'm familiar with the whole "$3$ equations for $3$ unknowns".



However, the book's explanation concludes with the statement:



"The equations can't be linearly dependent since the points that lead to them are all different". I am not particularly familiar with linear algebra so I do not understand the significance of this statement. Is there a visual representation of this statement that can help me understand what they mean?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    as long as you have three points A,B,C that are distinct and not collinear, draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment AB, then draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment BC, these two constructed lines meet in the correct center. In fact, if you also draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment CA, all three lines meet in the correct center.
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:25










  • $begingroup$
    That is interesting. Could you explain to me why that is the case? Is that a visual demonstration of what it means to be linearly independent? Or is that just a coincidental phenomenon that you observe with circles defined by 3 unique points.
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 5 at 22:30






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    meanwhile, given coordinates for the three points, it is not hard to find equations for the three lines.
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:30






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    If we call the center P, we know that PAB is an isosceles triangle, as P must be the same distance from A and B. Before we are quite sure where P is, we still know it lies on the perpendicular bisector of segment AB, as the altitude of an isosceles triangle also bisects the opposing side. I am ignoring the linear algebra concepts
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:33






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Understood. I really recommend you draw some pictures my way before pushing on with the system of equations; the bisector method goes back about two thousand years and is easy. Also, in your question above, it should read $y_1- k$ and $y_2-k$ and $y_3-k$
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:38
















3












$begingroup$


In learning about the general formula for a circle:
$$(x-h)^2 + (y-k)^2 = r^2$$
my book states that $3$ points are sufficient to guarantee the solution (or absence of solution) for an unique circle.



It follows this up by explaining that $3$ different points creates $3$ different equations...namely:



1) $(x_1-h)^2 + (y_1-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_1,y_1);$ is the first point provided

2) $(x_2-h)^2 + (y_2-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_2,y_2);$ is the second point provided

3) $(x_3-h)^2 + (y_3-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_3,y_3);$ is the third point provided



I'm okay with this as I'm familiar with the whole "$3$ equations for $3$ unknowns".



However, the book's explanation concludes with the statement:



"The equations can't be linearly dependent since the points that lead to them are all different". I am not particularly familiar with linear algebra so I do not understand the significance of this statement. Is there a visual representation of this statement that can help me understand what they mean?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    as long as you have three points A,B,C that are distinct and not collinear, draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment AB, then draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment BC, these two constructed lines meet in the correct center. In fact, if you also draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment CA, all three lines meet in the correct center.
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:25










  • $begingroup$
    That is interesting. Could you explain to me why that is the case? Is that a visual demonstration of what it means to be linearly independent? Or is that just a coincidental phenomenon that you observe with circles defined by 3 unique points.
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 5 at 22:30






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    meanwhile, given coordinates for the three points, it is not hard to find equations for the three lines.
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:30






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    If we call the center P, we know that PAB is an isosceles triangle, as P must be the same distance from A and B. Before we are quite sure where P is, we still know it lies on the perpendicular bisector of segment AB, as the altitude of an isosceles triangle also bisects the opposing side. I am ignoring the linear algebra concepts
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:33






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Understood. I really recommend you draw some pictures my way before pushing on with the system of equations; the bisector method goes back about two thousand years and is easy. Also, in your question above, it should read $y_1- k$ and $y_2-k$ and $y_3-k$
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:38














3












3








3


2



$begingroup$


In learning about the general formula for a circle:
$$(x-h)^2 + (y-k)^2 = r^2$$
my book states that $3$ points are sufficient to guarantee the solution (or absence of solution) for an unique circle.



It follows this up by explaining that $3$ different points creates $3$ different equations...namely:



1) $(x_1-h)^2 + (y_1-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_1,y_1);$ is the first point provided

2) $(x_2-h)^2 + (y_2-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_2,y_2);$ is the second point provided

3) $(x_3-h)^2 + (y_3-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_3,y_3);$ is the third point provided



I'm okay with this as I'm familiar with the whole "$3$ equations for $3$ unknowns".



However, the book's explanation concludes with the statement:



"The equations can't be linearly dependent since the points that lead to them are all different". I am not particularly familiar with linear algebra so I do not understand the significance of this statement. Is there a visual representation of this statement that can help me understand what they mean?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




In learning about the general formula for a circle:
$$(x-h)^2 + (y-k)^2 = r^2$$
my book states that $3$ points are sufficient to guarantee the solution (or absence of solution) for an unique circle.



It follows this up by explaining that $3$ different points creates $3$ different equations...namely:



1) $(x_1-h)^2 + (y_1-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_1,y_1);$ is the first point provided

2) $(x_2-h)^2 + (y_2-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_2,y_2);$ is the second point provided

3) $(x_3-h)^2 + (y_3-k)^2 = r^2;$ where $;(x_3,y_3);$ is the third point provided



I'm okay with this as I'm familiar with the whole "$3$ equations for $3$ unknowns".



However, the book's explanation concludes with the statement:



"The equations can't be linearly dependent since the points that lead to them are all different". I am not particularly familiar with linear algebra so I do not understand the significance of this statement. Is there a visual representation of this statement that can help me understand what they mean?







linear-algebra circle






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 5 at 23:47







S.Cramer

















asked Jan 5 at 22:18









S.CramerS.Cramer

13618




13618








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    as long as you have three points A,B,C that are distinct and not collinear, draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment AB, then draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment BC, these two constructed lines meet in the correct center. In fact, if you also draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment CA, all three lines meet in the correct center.
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:25










  • $begingroup$
    That is interesting. Could you explain to me why that is the case? Is that a visual demonstration of what it means to be linearly independent? Or is that just a coincidental phenomenon that you observe with circles defined by 3 unique points.
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 5 at 22:30






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    meanwhile, given coordinates for the three points, it is not hard to find equations for the three lines.
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:30






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    If we call the center P, we know that PAB is an isosceles triangle, as P must be the same distance from A and B. Before we are quite sure where P is, we still know it lies on the perpendicular bisector of segment AB, as the altitude of an isosceles triangle also bisects the opposing side. I am ignoring the linear algebra concepts
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:33






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Understood. I really recommend you draw some pictures my way before pushing on with the system of equations; the bisector method goes back about two thousand years and is easy. Also, in your question above, it should read $y_1- k$ and $y_2-k$ and $y_3-k$
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:38














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    as long as you have three points A,B,C that are distinct and not collinear, draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment AB, then draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment BC, these two constructed lines meet in the correct center. In fact, if you also draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment CA, all three lines meet in the correct center.
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:25










  • $begingroup$
    That is interesting. Could you explain to me why that is the case? Is that a visual demonstration of what it means to be linearly independent? Or is that just a coincidental phenomenon that you observe with circles defined by 3 unique points.
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 5 at 22:30






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    meanwhile, given coordinates for the three points, it is not hard to find equations for the three lines.
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:30






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    If we call the center P, we know that PAB is an isosceles triangle, as P must be the same distance from A and B. Before we are quite sure where P is, we still know it lies on the perpendicular bisector of segment AB, as the altitude of an isosceles triangle also bisects the opposing side. I am ignoring the linear algebra concepts
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:33






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Understood. I really recommend you draw some pictures my way before pushing on with the system of equations; the bisector method goes back about two thousand years and is easy. Also, in your question above, it should read $y_1- k$ and $y_2-k$ and $y_3-k$
    $endgroup$
    – Will Jagy
    Jan 5 at 22:38








2




2




$begingroup$
as long as you have three points A,B,C that are distinct and not collinear, draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment AB, then draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment BC, these two constructed lines meet in the correct center. In fact, if you also draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment CA, all three lines meet in the correct center.
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
Jan 5 at 22:25




$begingroup$
as long as you have three points A,B,C that are distinct and not collinear, draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment AB, then draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment BC, these two constructed lines meet in the correct center. In fact, if you also draw the perpendicular bisector of the line segment CA, all three lines meet in the correct center.
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
Jan 5 at 22:25












$begingroup$
That is interesting. Could you explain to me why that is the case? Is that a visual demonstration of what it means to be linearly independent? Or is that just a coincidental phenomenon that you observe with circles defined by 3 unique points.
$endgroup$
– S.Cramer
Jan 5 at 22:30




$begingroup$
That is interesting. Could you explain to me why that is the case? Is that a visual demonstration of what it means to be linearly independent? Or is that just a coincidental phenomenon that you observe with circles defined by 3 unique points.
$endgroup$
– S.Cramer
Jan 5 at 22:30




1




1




$begingroup$
meanwhile, given coordinates for the three points, it is not hard to find equations for the three lines.
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
Jan 5 at 22:30




$begingroup$
meanwhile, given coordinates for the three points, it is not hard to find equations for the three lines.
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
Jan 5 at 22:30




1




1




$begingroup$
If we call the center P, we know that PAB is an isosceles triangle, as P must be the same distance from A and B. Before we are quite sure where P is, we still know it lies on the perpendicular bisector of segment AB, as the altitude of an isosceles triangle also bisects the opposing side. I am ignoring the linear algebra concepts
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
Jan 5 at 22:33




$begingroup$
If we call the center P, we know that PAB is an isosceles triangle, as P must be the same distance from A and B. Before we are quite sure where P is, we still know it lies on the perpendicular bisector of segment AB, as the altitude of an isosceles triangle also bisects the opposing side. I am ignoring the linear algebra concepts
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
Jan 5 at 22:33




2




2




$begingroup$
Understood. I really recommend you draw some pictures my way before pushing on with the system of equations; the bisector method goes back about two thousand years and is easy. Also, in your question above, it should read $y_1- k$ and $y_2-k$ and $y_3-k$
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
Jan 5 at 22:38




$begingroup$
Understood. I really recommend you draw some pictures my way before pushing on with the system of equations; the bisector method goes back about two thousand years and is easy. Also, in your question above, it should read $y_1- k$ and $y_2-k$ and $y_3-k$
$endgroup$
– Will Jagy
Jan 5 at 22:38










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

Sometimes a few figures are worth a thousand words:



enter image description here



enter image description here






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I assume the lower image is when you collapse the shorter 2 legs of the triangle onto the longest leg of the triangle? (and the resulting vertical lines in the lower image are where the bisecting lines in the upper image would land) What is the significance of "collapsing two lines on to one line" ... i.e. why did you choose to emphasize this?
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 6 at 0:09










  • $begingroup$
    When the three (blue) points are linearly dependent (i.e., you can obtain one of the points by a linear combination of the two others), the points fall on a line (hence "linear") and the bisecting perpendiculars which intersect at the center of the generated circle, instead do not intersect... hence no circle... hence no solution.
    $endgroup$
    – David G. Stork
    Jan 6 at 0:13










  • $begingroup$
    I guess my confusion is that I do not understand how, given two points that lay on a circle, I could actually create a linearly DEPENDENT point derived from those two points.
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 6 at 0:19










  • $begingroup$
    Illuminating, but not quite apropos. The claim in questions is that the three circle equations in $h$ and $k$ are linearly independent iff the three points are distinct. We haven’t yet gotten to whether or not that system of three independent equations has a solution.
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    Jan 6 at 0:19



















2












$begingroup$

The pictures in @DavidGStork 's lovely answer explain why the three equations produce a unique solution.



I want to add a discussion of the algebra, and a possible correction.



When the author writes




The equations can't be linearly dependent since the points that lead
to them are all different




the intent is to tell you that you can't deduce the third equation from the first two. That means you really do have three independent conditions on the three unknowns, which is usually what you need to guarantee a solution.



However




  • The simple assertion that the "points are different" does not in
    itself prove the independence. For that you need an argument like the
    one in the picture.


  • As written, these are not linear equations. The variables $h$ and $k$ appear
    squared. So they should be described as independent, but not linearly
    independent. With a little algebra you can combine them in pairs to produce two linear equations for $h$ and $k$. Those you can solve using what you learn in high school algebra. Finding where two lines cross by solving two equations in two unknowns is the only "linear algebra" you need. Then you can use any one of the three equations to find $r^2$, so $r$.







share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    This doesn’t have to do with linear algebra per se, although the idea of linear independence is central to that discipline. To state the claim differently, none of the three equations is redundant—none of them can be obtained by adding multiples of the other two to each other—because the three points are distinct.



    Assume that the equations are dependent. W.l.o.g. we’ll say that it’s the third one that’s a linear combination of the other two. Since its right-hand side must be $r^2$, there’s some real number $lambda$ for which the coefficients of the left-hand side of $$(1-lambda)((x_1-h)^2+(y_1-k)^2)+lambda((x_2-h)^2+(y_2-k)^2) = r^2 tag{*}$$ are equal to those in the left-hand side of the original third equation. Now, that equation represents a circle with radius $r$ centered at $(x_3,y_3)$. With a bit of work, equation (*) can be rearranged into $$(h-((1-lambda)x_1+lambda x_2))^2 + (k-((1-lambda)y_1+lambda y_2))^2=r^2-lambda(1-lambda)((x_1-x_2)^2+(y_1-y_2)^2).$$ This is an equation of a circle with center at $(1-lambda)(x_1,y_1)+lambda(x_2,y_2)$, which lies somewhere on the line through $(x_1,y_1)$ and $(x_2,y_2)$. For its radius to be $r$, the second term on the right must vanish. This can occur in three ways: either $(x_1,y_1)=(x_2,y_2)$; $lambda = 0$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_1,y_1)$; or $lambda=1$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_2,y_2)$. By hypothesis, the three points are distinct, so the three equations must be linearly independent.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      I can add a picture if you like, but the basic idea is that combining the first two equations gives you a family of circles of varying radii, but the only two members of that family that have the required radius are the two circles that generated it.
      $endgroup$
      – amd
      Jan 6 at 0:49











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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    3












    $begingroup$

    Sometimes a few figures are worth a thousand words:



    enter image description here



    enter image description here






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      I assume the lower image is when you collapse the shorter 2 legs of the triangle onto the longest leg of the triangle? (and the resulting vertical lines in the lower image are where the bisecting lines in the upper image would land) What is the significance of "collapsing two lines on to one line" ... i.e. why did you choose to emphasize this?
      $endgroup$
      – S.Cramer
      Jan 6 at 0:09










    • $begingroup$
      When the three (blue) points are linearly dependent (i.e., you can obtain one of the points by a linear combination of the two others), the points fall on a line (hence "linear") and the bisecting perpendiculars which intersect at the center of the generated circle, instead do not intersect... hence no circle... hence no solution.
      $endgroup$
      – David G. Stork
      Jan 6 at 0:13










    • $begingroup$
      I guess my confusion is that I do not understand how, given two points that lay on a circle, I could actually create a linearly DEPENDENT point derived from those two points.
      $endgroup$
      – S.Cramer
      Jan 6 at 0:19










    • $begingroup$
      Illuminating, but not quite apropos. The claim in questions is that the three circle equations in $h$ and $k$ are linearly independent iff the three points are distinct. We haven’t yet gotten to whether or not that system of three independent equations has a solution.
      $endgroup$
      – amd
      Jan 6 at 0:19
















    3












    $begingroup$

    Sometimes a few figures are worth a thousand words:



    enter image description here



    enter image description here






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      I assume the lower image is when you collapse the shorter 2 legs of the triangle onto the longest leg of the triangle? (and the resulting vertical lines in the lower image are where the bisecting lines in the upper image would land) What is the significance of "collapsing two lines on to one line" ... i.e. why did you choose to emphasize this?
      $endgroup$
      – S.Cramer
      Jan 6 at 0:09










    • $begingroup$
      When the three (blue) points are linearly dependent (i.e., you can obtain one of the points by a linear combination of the two others), the points fall on a line (hence "linear") and the bisecting perpendiculars which intersect at the center of the generated circle, instead do not intersect... hence no circle... hence no solution.
      $endgroup$
      – David G. Stork
      Jan 6 at 0:13










    • $begingroup$
      I guess my confusion is that I do not understand how, given two points that lay on a circle, I could actually create a linearly DEPENDENT point derived from those two points.
      $endgroup$
      – S.Cramer
      Jan 6 at 0:19










    • $begingroup$
      Illuminating, but not quite apropos. The claim in questions is that the three circle equations in $h$ and $k$ are linearly independent iff the three points are distinct. We haven’t yet gotten to whether or not that system of three independent equations has a solution.
      $endgroup$
      – amd
      Jan 6 at 0:19














    3












    3








    3





    $begingroup$

    Sometimes a few figures are worth a thousand words:



    enter image description here



    enter image description here






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Sometimes a few figures are worth a thousand words:



    enter image description here



    enter image description here







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Jan 6 at 0:03

























    answered Jan 5 at 23:58









    David G. StorkDavid G. Stork

    11k41432




    11k41432












    • $begingroup$
      I assume the lower image is when you collapse the shorter 2 legs of the triangle onto the longest leg of the triangle? (and the resulting vertical lines in the lower image are where the bisecting lines in the upper image would land) What is the significance of "collapsing two lines on to one line" ... i.e. why did you choose to emphasize this?
      $endgroup$
      – S.Cramer
      Jan 6 at 0:09










    • $begingroup$
      When the three (blue) points are linearly dependent (i.e., you can obtain one of the points by a linear combination of the two others), the points fall on a line (hence "linear") and the bisecting perpendiculars which intersect at the center of the generated circle, instead do not intersect... hence no circle... hence no solution.
      $endgroup$
      – David G. Stork
      Jan 6 at 0:13










    • $begingroup$
      I guess my confusion is that I do not understand how, given two points that lay on a circle, I could actually create a linearly DEPENDENT point derived from those two points.
      $endgroup$
      – S.Cramer
      Jan 6 at 0:19










    • $begingroup$
      Illuminating, but not quite apropos. The claim in questions is that the three circle equations in $h$ and $k$ are linearly independent iff the three points are distinct. We haven’t yet gotten to whether or not that system of three independent equations has a solution.
      $endgroup$
      – amd
      Jan 6 at 0:19


















    • $begingroup$
      I assume the lower image is when you collapse the shorter 2 legs of the triangle onto the longest leg of the triangle? (and the resulting vertical lines in the lower image are where the bisecting lines in the upper image would land) What is the significance of "collapsing two lines on to one line" ... i.e. why did you choose to emphasize this?
      $endgroup$
      – S.Cramer
      Jan 6 at 0:09










    • $begingroup$
      When the three (blue) points are linearly dependent (i.e., you can obtain one of the points by a linear combination of the two others), the points fall on a line (hence "linear") and the bisecting perpendiculars which intersect at the center of the generated circle, instead do not intersect... hence no circle... hence no solution.
      $endgroup$
      – David G. Stork
      Jan 6 at 0:13










    • $begingroup$
      I guess my confusion is that I do not understand how, given two points that lay on a circle, I could actually create a linearly DEPENDENT point derived from those two points.
      $endgroup$
      – S.Cramer
      Jan 6 at 0:19










    • $begingroup$
      Illuminating, but not quite apropos. The claim in questions is that the three circle equations in $h$ and $k$ are linearly independent iff the three points are distinct. We haven’t yet gotten to whether or not that system of three independent equations has a solution.
      $endgroup$
      – amd
      Jan 6 at 0:19
















    $begingroup$
    I assume the lower image is when you collapse the shorter 2 legs of the triangle onto the longest leg of the triangle? (and the resulting vertical lines in the lower image are where the bisecting lines in the upper image would land) What is the significance of "collapsing two lines on to one line" ... i.e. why did you choose to emphasize this?
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 6 at 0:09




    $begingroup$
    I assume the lower image is when you collapse the shorter 2 legs of the triangle onto the longest leg of the triangle? (and the resulting vertical lines in the lower image are where the bisecting lines in the upper image would land) What is the significance of "collapsing two lines on to one line" ... i.e. why did you choose to emphasize this?
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 6 at 0:09












    $begingroup$
    When the three (blue) points are linearly dependent (i.e., you can obtain one of the points by a linear combination of the two others), the points fall on a line (hence "linear") and the bisecting perpendiculars which intersect at the center of the generated circle, instead do not intersect... hence no circle... hence no solution.
    $endgroup$
    – David G. Stork
    Jan 6 at 0:13




    $begingroup$
    When the three (blue) points are linearly dependent (i.e., you can obtain one of the points by a linear combination of the two others), the points fall on a line (hence "linear") and the bisecting perpendiculars which intersect at the center of the generated circle, instead do not intersect... hence no circle... hence no solution.
    $endgroup$
    – David G. Stork
    Jan 6 at 0:13












    $begingroup$
    I guess my confusion is that I do not understand how, given two points that lay on a circle, I could actually create a linearly DEPENDENT point derived from those two points.
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 6 at 0:19




    $begingroup$
    I guess my confusion is that I do not understand how, given two points that lay on a circle, I could actually create a linearly DEPENDENT point derived from those two points.
    $endgroup$
    – S.Cramer
    Jan 6 at 0:19












    $begingroup$
    Illuminating, but not quite apropos. The claim in questions is that the three circle equations in $h$ and $k$ are linearly independent iff the three points are distinct. We haven’t yet gotten to whether or not that system of three independent equations has a solution.
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    Jan 6 at 0:19




    $begingroup$
    Illuminating, but not quite apropos. The claim in questions is that the three circle equations in $h$ and $k$ are linearly independent iff the three points are distinct. We haven’t yet gotten to whether or not that system of three independent equations has a solution.
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    Jan 6 at 0:19











    2












    $begingroup$

    The pictures in @DavidGStork 's lovely answer explain why the three equations produce a unique solution.



    I want to add a discussion of the algebra, and a possible correction.



    When the author writes




    The equations can't be linearly dependent since the points that lead
    to them are all different




    the intent is to tell you that you can't deduce the third equation from the first two. That means you really do have three independent conditions on the three unknowns, which is usually what you need to guarantee a solution.



    However




    • The simple assertion that the "points are different" does not in
      itself prove the independence. For that you need an argument like the
      one in the picture.


    • As written, these are not linear equations. The variables $h$ and $k$ appear
      squared. So they should be described as independent, but not linearly
      independent. With a little algebra you can combine them in pairs to produce two linear equations for $h$ and $k$. Those you can solve using what you learn in high school algebra. Finding where two lines cross by solving two equations in two unknowns is the only "linear algebra" you need. Then you can use any one of the three equations to find $r^2$, so $r$.







    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      2












      $begingroup$

      The pictures in @DavidGStork 's lovely answer explain why the three equations produce a unique solution.



      I want to add a discussion of the algebra, and a possible correction.



      When the author writes




      The equations can't be linearly dependent since the points that lead
      to them are all different




      the intent is to tell you that you can't deduce the third equation from the first two. That means you really do have three independent conditions on the three unknowns, which is usually what you need to guarantee a solution.



      However




      • The simple assertion that the "points are different" does not in
        itself prove the independence. For that you need an argument like the
        one in the picture.


      • As written, these are not linear equations. The variables $h$ and $k$ appear
        squared. So they should be described as independent, but not linearly
        independent. With a little algebra you can combine them in pairs to produce two linear equations for $h$ and $k$. Those you can solve using what you learn in high school algebra. Finding where two lines cross by solving two equations in two unknowns is the only "linear algebra" you need. Then you can use any one of the three equations to find $r^2$, so $r$.







      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        The pictures in @DavidGStork 's lovely answer explain why the three equations produce a unique solution.



        I want to add a discussion of the algebra, and a possible correction.



        When the author writes




        The equations can't be linearly dependent since the points that lead
        to them are all different




        the intent is to tell you that you can't deduce the third equation from the first two. That means you really do have three independent conditions on the three unknowns, which is usually what you need to guarantee a solution.



        However




        • The simple assertion that the "points are different" does not in
          itself prove the independence. For that you need an argument like the
          one in the picture.


        • As written, these are not linear equations. The variables $h$ and $k$ appear
          squared. So they should be described as independent, but not linearly
          independent. With a little algebra you can combine them in pairs to produce two linear equations for $h$ and $k$. Those you can solve using what you learn in high school algebra. Finding where two lines cross by solving two equations in two unknowns is the only "linear algebra" you need. Then you can use any one of the three equations to find $r^2$, so $r$.







        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        The pictures in @DavidGStork 's lovely answer explain why the three equations produce a unique solution.



        I want to add a discussion of the algebra, and a possible correction.



        When the author writes




        The equations can't be linearly dependent since the points that lead
        to them are all different




        the intent is to tell you that you can't deduce the third equation from the first two. That means you really do have three independent conditions on the three unknowns, which is usually what you need to guarantee a solution.



        However




        • The simple assertion that the "points are different" does not in
          itself prove the independence. For that you need an argument like the
          one in the picture.


        • As written, these are not linear equations. The variables $h$ and $k$ appear
          squared. So they should be described as independent, but not linearly
          independent. With a little algebra you can combine them in pairs to produce two linear equations for $h$ and $k$. Those you can solve using what you learn in high school algebra. Finding where two lines cross by solving two equations in two unknowns is the only "linear algebra" you need. Then you can use any one of the three equations to find $r^2$, so $r$.








        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Jan 6 at 0:17

























        answered Jan 6 at 0:11









        Ethan BolkerEthan Bolker

        44.7k553120




        44.7k553120























            1












            $begingroup$

            This doesn’t have to do with linear algebra per se, although the idea of linear independence is central to that discipline. To state the claim differently, none of the three equations is redundant—none of them can be obtained by adding multiples of the other two to each other—because the three points are distinct.



            Assume that the equations are dependent. W.l.o.g. we’ll say that it’s the third one that’s a linear combination of the other two. Since its right-hand side must be $r^2$, there’s some real number $lambda$ for which the coefficients of the left-hand side of $$(1-lambda)((x_1-h)^2+(y_1-k)^2)+lambda((x_2-h)^2+(y_2-k)^2) = r^2 tag{*}$$ are equal to those in the left-hand side of the original third equation. Now, that equation represents a circle with radius $r$ centered at $(x_3,y_3)$. With a bit of work, equation (*) can be rearranged into $$(h-((1-lambda)x_1+lambda x_2))^2 + (k-((1-lambda)y_1+lambda y_2))^2=r^2-lambda(1-lambda)((x_1-x_2)^2+(y_1-y_2)^2).$$ This is an equation of a circle with center at $(1-lambda)(x_1,y_1)+lambda(x_2,y_2)$, which lies somewhere on the line through $(x_1,y_1)$ and $(x_2,y_2)$. For its radius to be $r$, the second term on the right must vanish. This can occur in three ways: either $(x_1,y_1)=(x_2,y_2)$; $lambda = 0$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_1,y_1)$; or $lambda=1$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_2,y_2)$. By hypothesis, the three points are distinct, so the three equations must be linearly independent.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              I can add a picture if you like, but the basic idea is that combining the first two equations gives you a family of circles of varying radii, but the only two members of that family that have the required radius are the two circles that generated it.
              $endgroup$
              – amd
              Jan 6 at 0:49
















            1












            $begingroup$

            This doesn’t have to do with linear algebra per se, although the idea of linear independence is central to that discipline. To state the claim differently, none of the three equations is redundant—none of them can be obtained by adding multiples of the other two to each other—because the three points are distinct.



            Assume that the equations are dependent. W.l.o.g. we’ll say that it’s the third one that’s a linear combination of the other two. Since its right-hand side must be $r^2$, there’s some real number $lambda$ for which the coefficients of the left-hand side of $$(1-lambda)((x_1-h)^2+(y_1-k)^2)+lambda((x_2-h)^2+(y_2-k)^2) = r^2 tag{*}$$ are equal to those in the left-hand side of the original third equation. Now, that equation represents a circle with radius $r$ centered at $(x_3,y_3)$. With a bit of work, equation (*) can be rearranged into $$(h-((1-lambda)x_1+lambda x_2))^2 + (k-((1-lambda)y_1+lambda y_2))^2=r^2-lambda(1-lambda)((x_1-x_2)^2+(y_1-y_2)^2).$$ This is an equation of a circle with center at $(1-lambda)(x_1,y_1)+lambda(x_2,y_2)$, which lies somewhere on the line through $(x_1,y_1)$ and $(x_2,y_2)$. For its radius to be $r$, the second term on the right must vanish. This can occur in three ways: either $(x_1,y_1)=(x_2,y_2)$; $lambda = 0$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_1,y_1)$; or $lambda=1$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_2,y_2)$. By hypothesis, the three points are distinct, so the three equations must be linearly independent.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              I can add a picture if you like, but the basic idea is that combining the first two equations gives you a family of circles of varying radii, but the only two members of that family that have the required radius are the two circles that generated it.
              $endgroup$
              – amd
              Jan 6 at 0:49














            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            This doesn’t have to do with linear algebra per se, although the idea of linear independence is central to that discipline. To state the claim differently, none of the three equations is redundant—none of them can be obtained by adding multiples of the other two to each other—because the three points are distinct.



            Assume that the equations are dependent. W.l.o.g. we’ll say that it’s the third one that’s a linear combination of the other two. Since its right-hand side must be $r^2$, there’s some real number $lambda$ for which the coefficients of the left-hand side of $$(1-lambda)((x_1-h)^2+(y_1-k)^2)+lambda((x_2-h)^2+(y_2-k)^2) = r^2 tag{*}$$ are equal to those in the left-hand side of the original third equation. Now, that equation represents a circle with radius $r$ centered at $(x_3,y_3)$. With a bit of work, equation (*) can be rearranged into $$(h-((1-lambda)x_1+lambda x_2))^2 + (k-((1-lambda)y_1+lambda y_2))^2=r^2-lambda(1-lambda)((x_1-x_2)^2+(y_1-y_2)^2).$$ This is an equation of a circle with center at $(1-lambda)(x_1,y_1)+lambda(x_2,y_2)$, which lies somewhere on the line through $(x_1,y_1)$ and $(x_2,y_2)$. For its radius to be $r$, the second term on the right must vanish. This can occur in three ways: either $(x_1,y_1)=(x_2,y_2)$; $lambda = 0$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_1,y_1)$; or $lambda=1$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_2,y_2)$. By hypothesis, the three points are distinct, so the three equations must be linearly independent.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            This doesn’t have to do with linear algebra per se, although the idea of linear independence is central to that discipline. To state the claim differently, none of the three equations is redundant—none of them can be obtained by adding multiples of the other two to each other—because the three points are distinct.



            Assume that the equations are dependent. W.l.o.g. we’ll say that it’s the third one that’s a linear combination of the other two. Since its right-hand side must be $r^2$, there’s some real number $lambda$ for which the coefficients of the left-hand side of $$(1-lambda)((x_1-h)^2+(y_1-k)^2)+lambda((x_2-h)^2+(y_2-k)^2) = r^2 tag{*}$$ are equal to those in the left-hand side of the original third equation. Now, that equation represents a circle with radius $r$ centered at $(x_3,y_3)$. With a bit of work, equation (*) can be rearranged into $$(h-((1-lambda)x_1+lambda x_2))^2 + (k-((1-lambda)y_1+lambda y_2))^2=r^2-lambda(1-lambda)((x_1-x_2)^2+(y_1-y_2)^2).$$ This is an equation of a circle with center at $(1-lambda)(x_1,y_1)+lambda(x_2,y_2)$, which lies somewhere on the line through $(x_1,y_1)$ and $(x_2,y_2)$. For its radius to be $r$, the second term on the right must vanish. This can occur in three ways: either $(x_1,y_1)=(x_2,y_2)$; $lambda = 0$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_1,y_1)$; or $lambda=1$, in which case $(x_3,y_3)=(x_2,y_2)$. By hypothesis, the three points are distinct, so the three equations must be linearly independent.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Jan 6 at 0:45









            amdamd

            30.8k21051




            30.8k21051












            • $begingroup$
              I can add a picture if you like, but the basic idea is that combining the first two equations gives you a family of circles of varying radii, but the only two members of that family that have the required radius are the two circles that generated it.
              $endgroup$
              – amd
              Jan 6 at 0:49


















            • $begingroup$
              I can add a picture if you like, but the basic idea is that combining the first two equations gives you a family of circles of varying radii, but the only two members of that family that have the required radius are the two circles that generated it.
              $endgroup$
              – amd
              Jan 6 at 0:49
















            $begingroup$
            I can add a picture if you like, but the basic idea is that combining the first two equations gives you a family of circles of varying radii, but the only two members of that family that have the required radius are the two circles that generated it.
            $endgroup$
            – amd
            Jan 6 at 0:49




            $begingroup$
            I can add a picture if you like, but the basic idea is that combining the first two equations gives you a family of circles of varying radii, but the only two members of that family that have the required radius are the two circles that generated it.
            $endgroup$
            – amd
            Jan 6 at 0:49


















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