Does the Hunter ranger's Stand Against the Tide feature require a re-roll of the missed attack?











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At 15th level, the Hunter ranger archetype of Ranger can choose the following feature:




Stand Against the Tide. When a hostile creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.




Does "repeat the same attack" mean the original attack roll of the "hostile creature" is applied against a new target, or does the hostile creature re-roll the attack?



I'm hoping it just re-applies the same number that was already rolled, because if I'm taking on a throng of orcs, I want to choose carefully when to use this feature. For example, I wouldn't want to use it when the orc's attack roll was a 6, but rather when it was a near miss, like a 16 -- so that it has a better chance of hitting his fellow orc when this feature is applied.










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    At 15th level, the Hunter ranger archetype of Ranger can choose the following feature:




    Stand Against the Tide. When a hostile creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.




    Does "repeat the same attack" mean the original attack roll of the "hostile creature" is applied against a new target, or does the hostile creature re-roll the attack?



    I'm hoping it just re-applies the same number that was already rolled, because if I'm taking on a throng of orcs, I want to choose carefully when to use this feature. For example, I wouldn't want to use it when the orc's attack roll was a 6, but rather when it was a near miss, like a 16 -- so that it has a better chance of hitting his fellow orc when this feature is applied.










    share|improve this question


























      up vote
      14
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      14
      down vote

      favorite











      At 15th level, the Hunter ranger archetype of Ranger can choose the following feature:




      Stand Against the Tide. When a hostile creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.




      Does "repeat the same attack" mean the original attack roll of the "hostile creature" is applied against a new target, or does the hostile creature re-roll the attack?



      I'm hoping it just re-applies the same number that was already rolled, because if I'm taking on a throng of orcs, I want to choose carefully when to use this feature. For example, I wouldn't want to use it when the orc's attack roll was a 6, but rather when it was a near miss, like a 16 -- so that it has a better chance of hitting his fellow orc when this feature is applied.










      share|improve this question















      At 15th level, the Hunter ranger archetype of Ranger can choose the following feature:




      Stand Against the Tide. When a hostile creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.




      Does "repeat the same attack" mean the original attack roll of the "hostile creature" is applied against a new target, or does the hostile creature re-roll the attack?



      I'm hoping it just re-applies the same number that was already rolled, because if I'm taking on a throng of orcs, I want to choose carefully when to use this feature. For example, I wouldn't want to use it when the orc's attack roll was a 6, but rather when it was a near miss, like a 16 -- so that it has a better chance of hitting his fellow orc when this feature is applied.







      dnd-5e class-feature attack ranger






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      edited 2 days ago









      V2Blast

      18.2k248114




      18.2k248114










      asked 2 days ago









      BigJamey

      1769




      1769






















          1 Answer
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          accepted










          It requires a re-roll



          "repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.



          You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.



          With some math



          Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.



          Without reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%



          With reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Goblin rerolls

            • New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%



          This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
            – Laurel
            2 days ago










          • @Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
            – linksassin
            yesterday










          • Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
            – BigJamey
            18 hours ago










          • @BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
            – linksassin
            3 hours ago











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          1 Answer
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          active

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          1 Answer
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          up vote
          20
          down vote



          accepted










          It requires a re-roll



          "repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.



          You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.



          With some math



          Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.



          Without reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%



          With reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Goblin rerolls

            • New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%



          This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
            – Laurel
            2 days ago










          • @Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
            – linksassin
            yesterday










          • Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
            – BigJamey
            18 hours ago










          • @BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
            – linksassin
            3 hours ago















          up vote
          20
          down vote



          accepted










          It requires a re-roll



          "repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.



          You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.



          With some math



          Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.



          Without reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%



          With reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Goblin rerolls

            • New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%



          This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
            – Laurel
            2 days ago










          • @Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
            – linksassin
            yesterday










          • Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
            – BigJamey
            18 hours ago










          • @BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
            – linksassin
            3 hours ago













          up vote
          20
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          20
          down vote



          accepted






          It requires a re-roll



          "repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.



          You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.



          With some math



          Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.



          Without reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%



          With reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Goblin rerolls

            • New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%



          This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.






          share|improve this answer














          It requires a re-roll



          "repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.



          You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.



          With some math



          Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.



          Without reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%



          With reroll




          • Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)

          • Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide


            • Goblin rerolls

            • New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)

            • Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)




          Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%



          This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 2 days ago









          András

          24.9k1090183




          24.9k1090183










          answered 2 days ago









          linksassin

          3,5091636




          3,5091636








          • 1




            Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
            – Laurel
            2 days ago










          • @Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
            – linksassin
            yesterday










          • Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
            – BigJamey
            18 hours ago










          • @BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
            – linksassin
            3 hours ago














          • 1




            Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
            – Laurel
            2 days ago










          • @Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
            – linksassin
            yesterday










          • Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
            – BigJamey
            18 hours ago










          • @BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
            – linksassin
            3 hours ago








          1




          1




          Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
          – Laurel
          2 days ago




          Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
          – Laurel
          2 days ago












          @Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
          – linksassin
          yesterday




          @Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
          – linksassin
          yesterday












          Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
          – BigJamey
          18 hours ago




          Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
          – BigJamey
          18 hours ago












          @BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
          – linksassin
          3 hours ago




          @BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
          – linksassin
          3 hours ago


















           

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