Does the Hunter ranger's Stand Against the Tide feature require a re-roll of the missed attack?
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At 15th level, the Hunter ranger archetype of Ranger can choose the following feature:
Stand Against the Tide. When a hostile creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.
Does "repeat the same attack" mean the original attack roll of the "hostile creature" is applied against a new target, or does the hostile creature re-roll the attack?
I'm hoping it just re-applies the same number that was already rolled, because if I'm taking on a throng of orcs, I want to choose carefully when to use this feature. For example, I wouldn't want to use it when the orc's attack roll was a 6, but rather when it was a near miss, like a 16 -- so that it has a better chance of hitting his fellow orc when this feature is applied.
dnd-5e class-feature attack ranger
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up vote
14
down vote
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At 15th level, the Hunter ranger archetype of Ranger can choose the following feature:
Stand Against the Tide. When a hostile creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.
Does "repeat the same attack" mean the original attack roll of the "hostile creature" is applied against a new target, or does the hostile creature re-roll the attack?
I'm hoping it just re-applies the same number that was already rolled, because if I'm taking on a throng of orcs, I want to choose carefully when to use this feature. For example, I wouldn't want to use it when the orc's attack roll was a 6, but rather when it was a near miss, like a 16 -- so that it has a better chance of hitting his fellow orc when this feature is applied.
dnd-5e class-feature attack ranger
add a comment |
up vote
14
down vote
favorite
up vote
14
down vote
favorite
At 15th level, the Hunter ranger archetype of Ranger can choose the following feature:
Stand Against the Tide. When a hostile creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.
Does "repeat the same attack" mean the original attack roll of the "hostile creature" is applied against a new target, or does the hostile creature re-roll the attack?
I'm hoping it just re-applies the same number that was already rolled, because if I'm taking on a throng of orcs, I want to choose carefully when to use this feature. For example, I wouldn't want to use it when the orc's attack roll was a 6, but rather when it was a near miss, like a 16 -- so that it has a better chance of hitting his fellow orc when this feature is applied.
dnd-5e class-feature attack ranger
At 15th level, the Hunter ranger archetype of Ranger can choose the following feature:
Stand Against the Tide. When a hostile creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.
Does "repeat the same attack" mean the original attack roll of the "hostile creature" is applied against a new target, or does the hostile creature re-roll the attack?
I'm hoping it just re-applies the same number that was already rolled, because if I'm taking on a throng of orcs, I want to choose carefully when to use this feature. For example, I wouldn't want to use it when the orc's attack roll was a 6, but rather when it was a near miss, like a 16 -- so that it has a better chance of hitting his fellow orc when this feature is applied.
dnd-5e class-feature attack ranger
dnd-5e class-feature attack ranger
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
18.2k248114
18.2k248114
asked 2 days ago
BigJamey
1769
1769
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add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
20
down vote
accepted
It requires a re-roll
"repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.
You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.
With some math
Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.
Without reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%
With reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Goblin rerolls
- New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%
This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.
1
Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
– Laurel
2 days ago
@Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
– linksassin
yesterday
Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
– BigJamey
18 hours ago
@BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
– linksassin
3 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
20
down vote
accepted
It requires a re-roll
"repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.
You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.
With some math
Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.
Without reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%
With reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Goblin rerolls
- New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%
This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.
1
Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
– Laurel
2 days ago
@Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
– linksassin
yesterday
Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
– BigJamey
18 hours ago
@BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
– linksassin
3 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
20
down vote
accepted
It requires a re-roll
"repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.
You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.
With some math
Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.
Without reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%
With reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Goblin rerolls
- New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%
This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.
1
Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
– Laurel
2 days ago
@Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
– linksassin
yesterday
Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
– BigJamey
18 hours ago
@BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
– linksassin
3 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
20
down vote
accepted
up vote
20
down vote
accepted
It requires a re-roll
"repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.
You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.
With some math
Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.
Without reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%
With reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Goblin rerolls
- New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%
This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.
It requires a re-roll
"repeat the same attack" means to use all the same modifiers (i.e. feats like Great Weapon Master) for the attack.
You should want the re-roll. If they have missed you then the roll is likely low. When redirecting the attack to another creature it is fairly likely to also miss them if they have similar AC to you, making this feature not that great. However, if they have to re-roll they have a decent chance of hitting the other creature.
With some math
Say you have an AC of 18 and you are fighting a horde of AC 15 Goblins. Goblins have +4 to hit.
Without reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (15%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 15%
With reroll
- Goblins rolls >=14 hits you. (35%)
- Goblins rolls <14 misses you. (65%) Activate Stand Against the Tide
- Goblin rerolls
- New Roll >=11 hits other Goblin (50%)
- Roll <11 misses entirely (50%)
Total chance to hit other goblin = 65% * 50% = 32.5%
This makes re-rolling mathematically advantageous. It only gets bigger as the AC of the other creature gets higher. It will never work without a reroll if the creatures AC equals or exceeds your own.
edited 2 days ago
András
24.9k1090183
24.9k1090183
answered 2 days ago
linksassin
3,5091636
3,5091636
1
Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
– Laurel
2 days ago
@Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
– linksassin
yesterday
Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
– BigJamey
18 hours ago
@BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
– linksassin
3 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
– Laurel
2 days ago
@Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
– linksassin
yesterday
Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
– BigJamey
18 hours ago
@BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
– linksassin
3 hours ago
1
1
Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
– Laurel
2 days ago
Is 10% missing from "without re-roll"? $35+40+15=90%$
– Laurel
2 days ago
@Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
– linksassin
yesterday
@Laurel, whoops made a typo while correcting a different typo
– linksassin
yesterday
Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
– BigJamey
18 hours ago
Your answer is great. For clarity, my DM usually tells me my opponent's roll.... he feels it simulates real combat: we would know how awesome (or not) the enemy attack was. So I was thinking, since I know the orc just rolled a 7 vs a 15..... does this affect your answer?
– BigJamey
18 hours ago
@BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
– linksassin
3 hours ago
@BigJamey You will still want the reroll for cases where the other target has an AC close to or exceeding your own. If doesn't significantly change the probabilities though. If you know the roll you can choose to only activate the feature one attack that it would succeed on I suppose. But you would need to be attacked at least 3 times a turn for this to have a better chance of hitting than a forced reroll.
– linksassin
3 hours ago
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