Let $alpha,gamma$ be ordinals such that $0<alphalegamma$. Then there is a greatest ordinal $beta$ such...











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Let $alpha,gamma$ be ordinals such that $0<alphalegamma$. Then there is a greatest ordinal $beta$ such that $alphacdotbetalegamma$.






Does my attempt look fine or contain logical flaws/gaps? Any suggestion is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help!





My attempt:



Let $A={delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta > gamma}$. Since $alphacdot(gamma+1)=alphacdotgamma+alpha>alphacdotgammagegamma$, $gamma+1in A$ and thus $Aneqemptyset$. Let $xi=min A$.



We next prove that $xi$ is a successor ordinal. Assume the contrary that $xi$ is a limit ordinal, then $alphacdotxi=sup_{eta<xi}(alphacdoteta)>gamma$. Then $alphacdoteta>gamma$ for some $eta<xi$. Thus $etain A$ and $eta<xi$. This contradicts the minimality of $xi$. Hence $xi$ is a successor ordinal and $xi=beta+1$. Then $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.





Update: I add the proof of $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.



For $delta>beta$: $deltagebeta+1=xiimpliesalpha cdotdeltagealpha cdotxi>gammaimpliesalpha cdotdelta>gammaimplies$ $deltanotin{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$. Moreover, $betain{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$. Hence $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.










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    Let $alpha,gamma$ be ordinals such that $0<alphalegamma$. Then there is a greatest ordinal $beta$ such that $alphacdotbetalegamma$.






    Does my attempt look fine or contain logical flaws/gaps? Any suggestion is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help!





    My attempt:



    Let $A={delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta > gamma}$. Since $alphacdot(gamma+1)=alphacdotgamma+alpha>alphacdotgammagegamma$, $gamma+1in A$ and thus $Aneqemptyset$. Let $xi=min A$.



    We next prove that $xi$ is a successor ordinal. Assume the contrary that $xi$ is a limit ordinal, then $alphacdotxi=sup_{eta<xi}(alphacdoteta)>gamma$. Then $alphacdoteta>gamma$ for some $eta<xi$. Thus $etain A$ and $eta<xi$. This contradicts the minimality of $xi$. Hence $xi$ is a successor ordinal and $xi=beta+1$. Then $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.





    Update: I add the proof of $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.



    For $delta>beta$: $deltagebeta+1=xiimpliesalpha cdotdeltagealpha cdotxi>gammaimpliesalpha cdotdelta>gammaimplies$ $deltanotin{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$. Moreover, $betain{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$. Hence $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.










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      up vote
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      up vote
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      favorite












      Let $alpha,gamma$ be ordinals such that $0<alphalegamma$. Then there is a greatest ordinal $beta$ such that $alphacdotbetalegamma$.






      Does my attempt look fine or contain logical flaws/gaps? Any suggestion is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help!





      My attempt:



      Let $A={delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta > gamma}$. Since $alphacdot(gamma+1)=alphacdotgamma+alpha>alphacdotgammagegamma$, $gamma+1in A$ and thus $Aneqemptyset$. Let $xi=min A$.



      We next prove that $xi$ is a successor ordinal. Assume the contrary that $xi$ is a limit ordinal, then $alphacdotxi=sup_{eta<xi}(alphacdoteta)>gamma$. Then $alphacdoteta>gamma$ for some $eta<xi$. Thus $etain A$ and $eta<xi$. This contradicts the minimality of $xi$. Hence $xi$ is a successor ordinal and $xi=beta+1$. Then $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.





      Update: I add the proof of $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.



      For $delta>beta$: $deltagebeta+1=xiimpliesalpha cdotdeltagealpha cdotxi>gammaimpliesalpha cdotdelta>gammaimplies$ $deltanotin{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$. Moreover, $betain{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$. Hence $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.










      share|cite|improve this question
















      Let $alpha,gamma$ be ordinals such that $0<alphalegamma$. Then there is a greatest ordinal $beta$ such that $alphacdotbetalegamma$.






      Does my attempt look fine or contain logical flaws/gaps? Any suggestion is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help!





      My attempt:



      Let $A={delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta > gamma}$. Since $alphacdot(gamma+1)=alphacdotgamma+alpha>alphacdotgammagegamma$, $gamma+1in A$ and thus $Aneqemptyset$. Let $xi=min A$.



      We next prove that $xi$ is a successor ordinal. Assume the contrary that $xi$ is a limit ordinal, then $alphacdotxi=sup_{eta<xi}(alphacdoteta)>gamma$. Then $alphacdoteta>gamma$ for some $eta<xi$. Thus $etain A$ and $eta<xi$. This contradicts the minimality of $xi$. Hence $xi$ is a successor ordinal and $xi=beta+1$. Then $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.





      Update: I add the proof of $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.



      For $delta>beta$: $deltagebeta+1=xiimpliesalpha cdotdeltagealpha cdotxi>gammaimpliesalpha cdotdelta>gammaimplies$ $deltanotin{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$. Moreover, $betain{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$. Hence $beta=max{delta in {rm Ord} mid alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.







      proof-verification elementary-set-theory ordinals






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      edited Nov 18 at 9:07

























      asked Nov 18 at 5:58









      Le Anh Dung

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          The argument for $xi$ not being a limit is more clearly written as follows, I think:



          If $xi$ is a limit ordinal, then by minimality of $xi$, $alpha cdot delta le gamma$ for all $delta < xi$, as $delta notin A$, and so $alpha cdot xi = sup{alpha cdot delta : delta < xi}le gamma$, which contradicts $alpha cdot xi > gamma$.



          So $xi = beta+1$ I agree with, but you have not yet shown that $beta$ is then as required, you just claim so, without an argument.



          Well, $beta < xi$ already gives $alpha cdot beta le gamma$, by minimality, so $beta in {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.



          And if $beta' > beta$ we know $beta' ge beta+1= xi$ so we need to have the lemma that




          $beta ge beta'$ implies $alpha cdot beta ge alpha cdot beta'$ for any fixed $alpha$,




          and this can quite easily be shown by transfinite induction. (It might be in your text already). Having this as a lemma, we can say $beta' > beta$ then $beta' ge xi$ and $alpha cdot beta' ge alpha cdot xi > gamma$ and so $beta' notin {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$ and $beta$ is indeed maximal.






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            The argument for $xi$ not being a limit is more clearly written as follows, I think:



            If $xi$ is a limit ordinal, then by minimality of $xi$, $alpha cdot delta le gamma$ for all $delta < xi$, as $delta notin A$, and so $alpha cdot xi = sup{alpha cdot delta : delta < xi}le gamma$, which contradicts $alpha cdot xi > gamma$.



            So $xi = beta+1$ I agree with, but you have not yet shown that $beta$ is then as required, you just claim so, without an argument.



            Well, $beta < xi$ already gives $alpha cdot beta le gamma$, by minimality, so $beta in {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.



            And if $beta' > beta$ we know $beta' ge beta+1= xi$ so we need to have the lemma that




            $beta ge beta'$ implies $alpha cdot beta ge alpha cdot beta'$ for any fixed $alpha$,




            and this can quite easily be shown by transfinite induction. (It might be in your text already). Having this as a lemma, we can say $beta' > beta$ then $beta' ge xi$ and $alpha cdot beta' ge alpha cdot xi > gamma$ and so $beta' notin {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$ and $beta$ is indeed maximal.






            share|cite|improve this answer



























              up vote
              1
              down vote



              accepted










              The argument for $xi$ not being a limit is more clearly written as follows, I think:



              If $xi$ is a limit ordinal, then by minimality of $xi$, $alpha cdot delta le gamma$ for all $delta < xi$, as $delta notin A$, and so $alpha cdot xi = sup{alpha cdot delta : delta < xi}le gamma$, which contradicts $alpha cdot xi > gamma$.



              So $xi = beta+1$ I agree with, but you have not yet shown that $beta$ is then as required, you just claim so, without an argument.



              Well, $beta < xi$ already gives $alpha cdot beta le gamma$, by minimality, so $beta in {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.



              And if $beta' > beta$ we know $beta' ge beta+1= xi$ so we need to have the lemma that




              $beta ge beta'$ implies $alpha cdot beta ge alpha cdot beta'$ for any fixed $alpha$,




              and this can quite easily be shown by transfinite induction. (It might be in your text already). Having this as a lemma, we can say $beta' > beta$ then $beta' ge xi$ and $alpha cdot beta' ge alpha cdot xi > gamma$ and so $beta' notin {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$ and $beta$ is indeed maximal.






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                up vote
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                up vote
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                The argument for $xi$ not being a limit is more clearly written as follows, I think:



                If $xi$ is a limit ordinal, then by minimality of $xi$, $alpha cdot delta le gamma$ for all $delta < xi$, as $delta notin A$, and so $alpha cdot xi = sup{alpha cdot delta : delta < xi}le gamma$, which contradicts $alpha cdot xi > gamma$.



                So $xi = beta+1$ I agree with, but you have not yet shown that $beta$ is then as required, you just claim so, without an argument.



                Well, $beta < xi$ already gives $alpha cdot beta le gamma$, by minimality, so $beta in {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.



                And if $beta' > beta$ we know $beta' ge beta+1= xi$ so we need to have the lemma that




                $beta ge beta'$ implies $alpha cdot beta ge alpha cdot beta'$ for any fixed $alpha$,




                and this can quite easily be shown by transfinite induction. (It might be in your text already). Having this as a lemma, we can say $beta' > beta$ then $beta' ge xi$ and $alpha cdot beta' ge alpha cdot xi > gamma$ and so $beta' notin {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$ and $beta$ is indeed maximal.






                share|cite|improve this answer














                The argument for $xi$ not being a limit is more clearly written as follows, I think:



                If $xi$ is a limit ordinal, then by minimality of $xi$, $alpha cdot delta le gamma$ for all $delta < xi$, as $delta notin A$, and so $alpha cdot xi = sup{alpha cdot delta : delta < xi}le gamma$, which contradicts $alpha cdot xi > gamma$.



                So $xi = beta+1$ I agree with, but you have not yet shown that $beta$ is then as required, you just claim so, without an argument.



                Well, $beta < xi$ already gives $alpha cdot beta le gamma$, by minimality, so $beta in {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$.



                And if $beta' > beta$ we know $beta' ge beta+1= xi$ so we need to have the lemma that




                $beta ge beta'$ implies $alpha cdot beta ge alpha cdot beta'$ for any fixed $alpha$,




                and this can quite easily be shown by transfinite induction. (It might be in your text already). Having this as a lemma, we can say $beta' > beta$ then $beta' ge xi$ and $alpha cdot beta' ge alpha cdot xi > gamma$ and so $beta' notin {delta in text{Ord}: alpha cdot delta le gamma}$ and $beta$ is indeed maximal.







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                edited Nov 18 at 6:49

























                answered Nov 18 at 6:43









                Henno Brandsma

                102k344108




                102k344108






























                     

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