if H is f.g, $Qlhd_f H$ and $phi in operatorname{Aut}(H)$ then $bigcaplimits_{i in mathbb Z} phi^i(Q) lhd_f...











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I need to prove that if H is finitely generated, $Qlhd_f H$ (normal of finite index) and $phi in operatorname{Aut}(H)$ then $cap_{i in mathbb Z} phi^i(Q) lhd_f H$.



Given that H is f.g and Q is of finite index, I do know that Q is f.g and thus all $phi^i(Q)$ are f.g . That does not mean however that their intersection is f.g. Other than that I have no clue on how to even approach such a problem and how does H being f.g have anything to do with the intersection being of finite index.



Other than a solution, I would also appreciate any reference to any book which is concerned with these type of topics (the general topic I am trying to study is residual finiteness where these type of questions seem to come up as 'obvious remarks').










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    up vote
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    down vote

    favorite












    I need to prove that if H is finitely generated, $Qlhd_f H$ (normal of finite index) and $phi in operatorname{Aut}(H)$ then $cap_{i in mathbb Z} phi^i(Q) lhd_f H$.



    Given that H is f.g and Q is of finite index, I do know that Q is f.g and thus all $phi^i(Q)$ are f.g . That does not mean however that their intersection is f.g. Other than that I have no clue on how to even approach such a problem and how does H being f.g have anything to do with the intersection being of finite index.



    Other than a solution, I would also appreciate any reference to any book which is concerned with these type of topics (the general topic I am trying to study is residual finiteness where these type of questions seem to come up as 'obvious remarks').










    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite











      I need to prove that if H is finitely generated, $Qlhd_f H$ (normal of finite index) and $phi in operatorname{Aut}(H)$ then $cap_{i in mathbb Z} phi^i(Q) lhd_f H$.



      Given that H is f.g and Q is of finite index, I do know that Q is f.g and thus all $phi^i(Q)$ are f.g . That does not mean however that their intersection is f.g. Other than that I have no clue on how to even approach such a problem and how does H being f.g have anything to do with the intersection being of finite index.



      Other than a solution, I would also appreciate any reference to any book which is concerned with these type of topics (the general topic I am trying to study is residual finiteness where these type of questions seem to come up as 'obvious remarks').










      share|cite|improve this question















      I need to prove that if H is finitely generated, $Qlhd_f H$ (normal of finite index) and $phi in operatorname{Aut}(H)$ then $cap_{i in mathbb Z} phi^i(Q) lhd_f H$.



      Given that H is f.g and Q is of finite index, I do know that Q is f.g and thus all $phi^i(Q)$ are f.g . That does not mean however that their intersection is f.g. Other than that I have no clue on how to even approach such a problem and how does H being f.g have anything to do with the intersection being of finite index.



      Other than a solution, I would also appreciate any reference to any book which is concerned with these type of topics (the general topic I am trying to study is residual finiteness where these type of questions seem to come up as 'obvious remarks').







      group-theory






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      edited Nov 16 at 23:24









      DonAntonio

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      176k1491224










      asked Nov 16 at 22:49









      Foivos

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      42629






















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          Here is a sketch solution. There is no need to assume that $Q$ is normal in $H$. If $|H:Q|=r$, then there is a homomorphism $phi:H to S_r$ with $phi(H)$ equal to the stabilizer of the first point.



          Since $H$ is finitely generated, there are only finitely many such homomorphisms, so there are finitely many subgroups of $H$ with index $r$. So the intersection of all of them has finite index in $H$ and, in particular the intersection of $phi(Q)$ for all $phi in {rm Aut}(H)$ has finite index in $H$.



          This can be false when $H$ is not finitely generated. For example, if $H$ is a direct prodcut of infinitely many copies of $C_2$, then the intersection of all subgroups of index $2$ is trivial, and all these subgroups can all be mapped to each other by automorphisms of $H$.






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            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted










            Here is a sketch solution. There is no need to assume that $Q$ is normal in $H$. If $|H:Q|=r$, then there is a homomorphism $phi:H to S_r$ with $phi(H)$ equal to the stabilizer of the first point.



            Since $H$ is finitely generated, there are only finitely many such homomorphisms, so there are finitely many subgroups of $H$ with index $r$. So the intersection of all of them has finite index in $H$ and, in particular the intersection of $phi(Q)$ for all $phi in {rm Aut}(H)$ has finite index in $H$.



            This can be false when $H$ is not finitely generated. For example, if $H$ is a direct prodcut of infinitely many copies of $C_2$, then the intersection of all subgroups of index $2$ is trivial, and all these subgroups can all be mapped to each other by automorphisms of $H$.






            share|cite|improve this answer

























              up vote
              2
              down vote



              accepted










              Here is a sketch solution. There is no need to assume that $Q$ is normal in $H$. If $|H:Q|=r$, then there is a homomorphism $phi:H to S_r$ with $phi(H)$ equal to the stabilizer of the first point.



              Since $H$ is finitely generated, there are only finitely many such homomorphisms, so there are finitely many subgroups of $H$ with index $r$. So the intersection of all of them has finite index in $H$ and, in particular the intersection of $phi(Q)$ for all $phi in {rm Aut}(H)$ has finite index in $H$.



              This can be false when $H$ is not finitely generated. For example, if $H$ is a direct prodcut of infinitely many copies of $C_2$, then the intersection of all subgroups of index $2$ is trivial, and all these subgroups can all be mapped to each other by automorphisms of $H$.






              share|cite|improve this answer























                up vote
                2
                down vote



                accepted







                up vote
                2
                down vote



                accepted






                Here is a sketch solution. There is no need to assume that $Q$ is normal in $H$. If $|H:Q|=r$, then there is a homomorphism $phi:H to S_r$ with $phi(H)$ equal to the stabilizer of the first point.



                Since $H$ is finitely generated, there are only finitely many such homomorphisms, so there are finitely many subgroups of $H$ with index $r$. So the intersection of all of them has finite index in $H$ and, in particular the intersection of $phi(Q)$ for all $phi in {rm Aut}(H)$ has finite index in $H$.



                This can be false when $H$ is not finitely generated. For example, if $H$ is a direct prodcut of infinitely many copies of $C_2$, then the intersection of all subgroups of index $2$ is trivial, and all these subgroups can all be mapped to each other by automorphisms of $H$.






                share|cite|improve this answer












                Here is a sketch solution. There is no need to assume that $Q$ is normal in $H$. If $|H:Q|=r$, then there is a homomorphism $phi:H to S_r$ with $phi(H)$ equal to the stabilizer of the first point.



                Since $H$ is finitely generated, there are only finitely many such homomorphisms, so there are finitely many subgroups of $H$ with index $r$. So the intersection of all of them has finite index in $H$ and, in particular the intersection of $phi(Q)$ for all $phi in {rm Aut}(H)$ has finite index in $H$.



                This can be false when $H$ is not finitely generated. For example, if $H$ is a direct prodcut of infinitely many copies of $C_2$, then the intersection of all subgroups of index $2$ is trivial, and all these subgroups can all be mapped to each other by automorphisms of $H$.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Nov 17 at 8:53









                Derek Holt

                51.7k53466




                51.7k53466






























                     

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