Showing $mathbb{R}^2$ has a Hamel basis using Zorn's lemma?
$begingroup$
To get some intuition for Zorn's lemma I want to use it explicitly in the proof of the following theorem in the case when $X = mathbb{R}^2$:
Every vector space $X neq { 0}$ has a Hamel basis.
So let $M$ be the set of all linearly independent subsets of $mathbb{R}^2$. So as far as I can see $M$ contains two types of elements:
- All non-zero vectors in $mathbb{R}^2$, as each non-zero vector is linearly independent as a set consisting of just itself.
- All groups of vectors such as ${(1,0),(0,1)},{(2,0),(0,1)},{(2,0),(0,2)},$ etc.. as each of these elements is a linearly independent set. Or we could write this as $M$ contains contains all groups of vectors ${(a,b),(c,d)}$ where $(a,b)$ and $(c,d)$ are linearly independent vectors.
Now supposedly the elements in $M$ are partially ordered by set inclusion. Then we can apply Zorn's lemma (Kreyszig, p. 211) which states that every if every chain $C subset M$ has an upper bound, then $M$ has at least one maximal element $B$. In particular, the upper bound in our case is the union of all elements of $X$ which are elements of $C$.
But I don't see how the elements of $M$ are ordered by set inclusion? Take the single vector elements from $1.$ above. None of these elements contain each other! Any single vector element of $M$ such as, say, ${(5,6)}$, only contains itself. It's the same for the elements of $M$ with two components. E.g. ${(2,0),(0,1)}$ only contains itself.
So what am I missing, how can Zorn's lemma be used to show that $mathbb{R}^2$ has a Hamel basis? Have I got the wrong elements in $M$? What would the chains $C$ look like and what is the maximal element $B$?
set-theory axiom-of-choice hamel-basis
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To get some intuition for Zorn's lemma I want to use it explicitly in the proof of the following theorem in the case when $X = mathbb{R}^2$:
Every vector space $X neq { 0}$ has a Hamel basis.
So let $M$ be the set of all linearly independent subsets of $mathbb{R}^2$. So as far as I can see $M$ contains two types of elements:
- All non-zero vectors in $mathbb{R}^2$, as each non-zero vector is linearly independent as a set consisting of just itself.
- All groups of vectors such as ${(1,0),(0,1)},{(2,0),(0,1)},{(2,0),(0,2)},$ etc.. as each of these elements is a linearly independent set. Or we could write this as $M$ contains contains all groups of vectors ${(a,b),(c,d)}$ where $(a,b)$ and $(c,d)$ are linearly independent vectors.
Now supposedly the elements in $M$ are partially ordered by set inclusion. Then we can apply Zorn's lemma (Kreyszig, p. 211) which states that every if every chain $C subset M$ has an upper bound, then $M$ has at least one maximal element $B$. In particular, the upper bound in our case is the union of all elements of $X$ which are elements of $C$.
But I don't see how the elements of $M$ are ordered by set inclusion? Take the single vector elements from $1.$ above. None of these elements contain each other! Any single vector element of $M$ such as, say, ${(5,6)}$, only contains itself. It's the same for the elements of $M$ with two components. E.g. ${(2,0),(0,1)}$ only contains itself.
So what am I missing, how can Zorn's lemma be used to show that $mathbb{R}^2$ has a Hamel basis? Have I got the wrong elements in $M$? What would the chains $C$ look like and what is the maximal element $B$?
set-theory axiom-of-choice hamel-basis
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
By "Hamel basis" do you mean $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb Q$? If you say "Hamel basis" with no explantation, that is what I would assume. In case it is $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb R$ the of course you do not need Zorn's Lemma to show the existence of a basis.
$endgroup$
– GEdgar
Nov 2 '18 at 14:28
$begingroup$
@GEdgar: From the context of the question, it seems that the question is indeed about $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
Nov 2 '18 at 14:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To get some intuition for Zorn's lemma I want to use it explicitly in the proof of the following theorem in the case when $X = mathbb{R}^2$:
Every vector space $X neq { 0}$ has a Hamel basis.
So let $M$ be the set of all linearly independent subsets of $mathbb{R}^2$. So as far as I can see $M$ contains two types of elements:
- All non-zero vectors in $mathbb{R}^2$, as each non-zero vector is linearly independent as a set consisting of just itself.
- All groups of vectors such as ${(1,0),(0,1)},{(2,0),(0,1)},{(2,0),(0,2)},$ etc.. as each of these elements is a linearly independent set. Or we could write this as $M$ contains contains all groups of vectors ${(a,b),(c,d)}$ where $(a,b)$ and $(c,d)$ are linearly independent vectors.
Now supposedly the elements in $M$ are partially ordered by set inclusion. Then we can apply Zorn's lemma (Kreyszig, p. 211) which states that every if every chain $C subset M$ has an upper bound, then $M$ has at least one maximal element $B$. In particular, the upper bound in our case is the union of all elements of $X$ which are elements of $C$.
But I don't see how the elements of $M$ are ordered by set inclusion? Take the single vector elements from $1.$ above. None of these elements contain each other! Any single vector element of $M$ such as, say, ${(5,6)}$, only contains itself. It's the same for the elements of $M$ with two components. E.g. ${(2,0),(0,1)}$ only contains itself.
So what am I missing, how can Zorn's lemma be used to show that $mathbb{R}^2$ has a Hamel basis? Have I got the wrong elements in $M$? What would the chains $C$ look like and what is the maximal element $B$?
set-theory axiom-of-choice hamel-basis
$endgroup$
To get some intuition for Zorn's lemma I want to use it explicitly in the proof of the following theorem in the case when $X = mathbb{R}^2$:
Every vector space $X neq { 0}$ has a Hamel basis.
So let $M$ be the set of all linearly independent subsets of $mathbb{R}^2$. So as far as I can see $M$ contains two types of elements:
- All non-zero vectors in $mathbb{R}^2$, as each non-zero vector is linearly independent as a set consisting of just itself.
- All groups of vectors such as ${(1,0),(0,1)},{(2,0),(0,1)},{(2,0),(0,2)},$ etc.. as each of these elements is a linearly independent set. Or we could write this as $M$ contains contains all groups of vectors ${(a,b),(c,d)}$ where $(a,b)$ and $(c,d)$ are linearly independent vectors.
Now supposedly the elements in $M$ are partially ordered by set inclusion. Then we can apply Zorn's lemma (Kreyszig, p. 211) which states that every if every chain $C subset M$ has an upper bound, then $M$ has at least one maximal element $B$. In particular, the upper bound in our case is the union of all elements of $X$ which are elements of $C$.
But I don't see how the elements of $M$ are ordered by set inclusion? Take the single vector elements from $1.$ above. None of these elements contain each other! Any single vector element of $M$ such as, say, ${(5,6)}$, only contains itself. It's the same for the elements of $M$ with two components. E.g. ${(2,0),(0,1)}$ only contains itself.
So what am I missing, how can Zorn's lemma be used to show that $mathbb{R}^2$ has a Hamel basis? Have I got the wrong elements in $M$? What would the chains $C$ look like and what is the maximal element $B$?
set-theory axiom-of-choice hamel-basis
set-theory axiom-of-choice hamel-basis
edited Jan 4 at 17:56
Andrés E. Caicedo
65.6k8159250
65.6k8159250
asked Nov 2 '18 at 13:39
sonicboomsonicboom
3,71082853
3,71082853
$begingroup$
By "Hamel basis" do you mean $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb Q$? If you say "Hamel basis" with no explantation, that is what I would assume. In case it is $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb R$ the of course you do not need Zorn's Lemma to show the existence of a basis.
$endgroup$
– GEdgar
Nov 2 '18 at 14:28
$begingroup$
@GEdgar: From the context of the question, it seems that the question is indeed about $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
Nov 2 '18 at 14:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
By "Hamel basis" do you mean $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb Q$? If you say "Hamel basis" with no explantation, that is what I would assume. In case it is $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb R$ the of course you do not need Zorn's Lemma to show the existence of a basis.
$endgroup$
– GEdgar
Nov 2 '18 at 14:28
$begingroup$
@GEdgar: From the context of the question, it seems that the question is indeed about $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
Nov 2 '18 at 14:48
$begingroup$
By "Hamel basis" do you mean $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb Q$? If you say "Hamel basis" with no explantation, that is what I would assume. In case it is $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb R$ the of course you do not need Zorn's Lemma to show the existence of a basis.
$endgroup$
– GEdgar
Nov 2 '18 at 14:28
$begingroup$
By "Hamel basis" do you mean $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb Q$? If you say "Hamel basis" with no explantation, that is what I would assume. In case it is $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb R$ the of course you do not need Zorn's Lemma to show the existence of a basis.
$endgroup$
– GEdgar
Nov 2 '18 at 14:28
$begingroup$
@GEdgar: From the context of the question, it seems that the question is indeed about $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
Nov 2 '18 at 14:48
$begingroup$
@GEdgar: From the context of the question, it seems that the question is indeed about $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
Nov 2 '18 at 14:48
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Since there are at most three elements in a chain, $varnothing,{x},{x,y}$, every chain is finite. Every finite linear order has a maximum. If a chain has a maximum, then it has an upper bound: that maximum.
Of course, this is confusing and one should never make use of Zorn's lemma or some other abstract choice principles when finite objects are in play. With finite objects we can just do things by hand, for the most part.
More to the point, most of the uses of Zorn's lemma rely, to some extent, on the understanding that we appeal to some property that is compact. If it holds for finite chains, it holds for all chains. For example in the general proof of existence of Hamel bases, if the union of an increasing chain of sets is not linearly independent, this is already revealed by finitely many of them in the chain, so we can take the largest of those finitely many.
So while it is perfectly valid to apply to Zorn's lemma to find a basis for $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$, it is also somewhat odd, since in general the use of Zorn's lemma relies on the knowledge that finite objects behave fine with respect to the property we wish to find a maximal set for.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well, the set ${ v,w}$ contains both ${v}$ and ${w}$. In particular your maximal chains look like:
$${ v,w} supset { v} quad textrm{ and } quad { v,w} supset { w}$$
And so your maximal elements and basis are:${ v,w}$ where by definition the 2 vectors are independent
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, Zorn's lemma can be used for that. Consider the set $M$. It is partially orderd by inclusion. Every subset of $mathcal{P}(S)$, where $S$ is some set, is partially orderd by inclusion. Then, take a chain $C$ in $M$. Now, there aren't lots of choices for chains here. You have three possibilites:
$C=bigl{{v}bigr}$ where $vneq0$;
$C=bigl{{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one;
$C=bigl{{v},{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one.
And you're done. There are no other possibilites.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For Zorn's Lemma, you only need a partial order and not a total one. In particular, this means that we don't need any pair of elements of $M$ to be comparable to each other to apply Zorn's Lemma.
It is true that some elements are comparable under $subseteq$ though. For example $A = {(1,0)} in M$ and $B = {(1,0),(0,1)}$ and we have $A subseteq B$. In fact, ${A,B}$ is a chain in $M$ and $B$ is its maximal element.
Finally, it's worth noticing that you really aren't using Zorn's lemma in this case because chains in $M$ are always finite so you can prove this result without choice. However, essentially the exact same proof (removing specific references to $mathbb{R}^2$) works for general $X$ and there you will need Zorn's lemma because in general chains will be very large.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The claim is that if $X$ be a vector space over a field $F$ and if $L$ is a linearly independent subset of $X$, there exists a basis of $X$ containing $L.$ The proof begins as follows:
Let $mathscr A$ be the collection of all linearly independent $sets$ of vectors containing $L$ (so $mathscr A$ is not empty,) ordered by inclusion. So using your example, we would have, for $L={(1,0),(0,1)}$ we have $ Lsubset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0)}subset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0),(0,2)}.$
A chain $C$ in $mathscr A$, is a collection of sets of linearly independent vectors, so $C$ is a $subset$ of $mathscr A$. And $C$ has the property that if $C_1$ and $C_2$ are members of $C$, then either $C_1subseteq C_2$ or $C_2subseteq C_1$. To apply Zorn's Lemma, you need only to show that the evident upper bound for $C$, namely $bigcup C$ is a set of linearly independent vectors.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2981757%2fshowing-mathbbr2-has-a-hamel-basis-using-zorns-lemma%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Since there are at most three elements in a chain, $varnothing,{x},{x,y}$, every chain is finite. Every finite linear order has a maximum. If a chain has a maximum, then it has an upper bound: that maximum.
Of course, this is confusing and one should never make use of Zorn's lemma or some other abstract choice principles when finite objects are in play. With finite objects we can just do things by hand, for the most part.
More to the point, most of the uses of Zorn's lemma rely, to some extent, on the understanding that we appeal to some property that is compact. If it holds for finite chains, it holds for all chains. For example in the general proof of existence of Hamel bases, if the union of an increasing chain of sets is not linearly independent, this is already revealed by finitely many of them in the chain, so we can take the largest of those finitely many.
So while it is perfectly valid to apply to Zorn's lemma to find a basis for $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$, it is also somewhat odd, since in general the use of Zorn's lemma relies on the knowledge that finite objects behave fine with respect to the property we wish to find a maximal set for.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since there are at most three elements in a chain, $varnothing,{x},{x,y}$, every chain is finite. Every finite linear order has a maximum. If a chain has a maximum, then it has an upper bound: that maximum.
Of course, this is confusing and one should never make use of Zorn's lemma or some other abstract choice principles when finite objects are in play. With finite objects we can just do things by hand, for the most part.
More to the point, most of the uses of Zorn's lemma rely, to some extent, on the understanding that we appeal to some property that is compact. If it holds for finite chains, it holds for all chains. For example in the general proof of existence of Hamel bases, if the union of an increasing chain of sets is not linearly independent, this is already revealed by finitely many of them in the chain, so we can take the largest of those finitely many.
So while it is perfectly valid to apply to Zorn's lemma to find a basis for $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$, it is also somewhat odd, since in general the use of Zorn's lemma relies on the knowledge that finite objects behave fine with respect to the property we wish to find a maximal set for.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since there are at most three elements in a chain, $varnothing,{x},{x,y}$, every chain is finite. Every finite linear order has a maximum. If a chain has a maximum, then it has an upper bound: that maximum.
Of course, this is confusing and one should never make use of Zorn's lemma or some other abstract choice principles when finite objects are in play. With finite objects we can just do things by hand, for the most part.
More to the point, most of the uses of Zorn's lemma rely, to some extent, on the understanding that we appeal to some property that is compact. If it holds for finite chains, it holds for all chains. For example in the general proof of existence of Hamel bases, if the union of an increasing chain of sets is not linearly independent, this is already revealed by finitely many of them in the chain, so we can take the largest of those finitely many.
So while it is perfectly valid to apply to Zorn's lemma to find a basis for $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$, it is also somewhat odd, since in general the use of Zorn's lemma relies on the knowledge that finite objects behave fine with respect to the property we wish to find a maximal set for.
$endgroup$
Since there are at most three elements in a chain, $varnothing,{x},{x,y}$, every chain is finite. Every finite linear order has a maximum. If a chain has a maximum, then it has an upper bound: that maximum.
Of course, this is confusing and one should never make use of Zorn's lemma or some other abstract choice principles when finite objects are in play. With finite objects we can just do things by hand, for the most part.
More to the point, most of the uses of Zorn's lemma rely, to some extent, on the understanding that we appeal to some property that is compact. If it holds for finite chains, it holds for all chains. For example in the general proof of existence of Hamel bases, if the union of an increasing chain of sets is not linearly independent, this is already revealed by finitely many of them in the chain, so we can take the largest of those finitely many.
So while it is perfectly valid to apply to Zorn's lemma to find a basis for $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$, it is also somewhat odd, since in general the use of Zorn's lemma relies on the knowledge that finite objects behave fine with respect to the property we wish to find a maximal set for.
answered Nov 2 '18 at 14:16
Asaf Karagila♦Asaf Karagila
305k33436767
305k33436767
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well, the set ${ v,w}$ contains both ${v}$ and ${w}$. In particular your maximal chains look like:
$${ v,w} supset { v} quad textrm{ and } quad { v,w} supset { w}$$
And so your maximal elements and basis are:${ v,w}$ where by definition the 2 vectors are independent
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well, the set ${ v,w}$ contains both ${v}$ and ${w}$. In particular your maximal chains look like:
$${ v,w} supset { v} quad textrm{ and } quad { v,w} supset { w}$$
And so your maximal elements and basis are:${ v,w}$ where by definition the 2 vectors are independent
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well, the set ${ v,w}$ contains both ${v}$ and ${w}$. In particular your maximal chains look like:
$${ v,w} supset { v} quad textrm{ and } quad { v,w} supset { w}$$
And so your maximal elements and basis are:${ v,w}$ where by definition the 2 vectors are independent
$endgroup$
Well, the set ${ v,w}$ contains both ${v}$ and ${w}$. In particular your maximal chains look like:
$${ v,w} supset { v} quad textrm{ and } quad { v,w} supset { w}$$
And so your maximal elements and basis are:${ v,w}$ where by definition the 2 vectors are independent
answered Nov 2 '18 at 13:45
EnkiduEnkidu
1,39219
1,39219
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, Zorn's lemma can be used for that. Consider the set $M$. It is partially orderd by inclusion. Every subset of $mathcal{P}(S)$, where $S$ is some set, is partially orderd by inclusion. Then, take a chain $C$ in $M$. Now, there aren't lots of choices for chains here. You have three possibilites:
$C=bigl{{v}bigr}$ where $vneq0$;
$C=bigl{{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one;
$C=bigl{{v},{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one.
And you're done. There are no other possibilites.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, Zorn's lemma can be used for that. Consider the set $M$. It is partially orderd by inclusion. Every subset of $mathcal{P}(S)$, where $S$ is some set, is partially orderd by inclusion. Then, take a chain $C$ in $M$. Now, there aren't lots of choices for chains here. You have three possibilites:
$C=bigl{{v}bigr}$ where $vneq0$;
$C=bigl{{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one;
$C=bigl{{v},{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one.
And you're done. There are no other possibilites.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, Zorn's lemma can be used for that. Consider the set $M$. It is partially orderd by inclusion. Every subset of $mathcal{P}(S)$, where $S$ is some set, is partially orderd by inclusion. Then, take a chain $C$ in $M$. Now, there aren't lots of choices for chains here. You have three possibilites:
$C=bigl{{v}bigr}$ where $vneq0$;
$C=bigl{{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one;
$C=bigl{{v},{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one.
And you're done. There are no other possibilites.
$endgroup$
Yes, Zorn's lemma can be used for that. Consider the set $M$. It is partially orderd by inclusion. Every subset of $mathcal{P}(S)$, where $S$ is some set, is partially orderd by inclusion. Then, take a chain $C$ in $M$. Now, there aren't lots of choices for chains here. You have three possibilites:
$C=bigl{{v}bigr}$ where $vneq0$;
$C=bigl{{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one;
$C=bigl{{v},{v,w}bigr}$, where $v$ and $w$ are two vectors such that none of them is a multiple of the other one.
And you're done. There are no other possibilites.
answered Nov 2 '18 at 13:47
José Carlos SantosJosé Carlos Santos
165k22132235
165k22132235
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For Zorn's Lemma, you only need a partial order and not a total one. In particular, this means that we don't need any pair of elements of $M$ to be comparable to each other to apply Zorn's Lemma.
It is true that some elements are comparable under $subseteq$ though. For example $A = {(1,0)} in M$ and $B = {(1,0),(0,1)}$ and we have $A subseteq B$. In fact, ${A,B}$ is a chain in $M$ and $B$ is its maximal element.
Finally, it's worth noticing that you really aren't using Zorn's lemma in this case because chains in $M$ are always finite so you can prove this result without choice. However, essentially the exact same proof (removing specific references to $mathbb{R}^2$) works for general $X$ and there you will need Zorn's lemma because in general chains will be very large.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For Zorn's Lemma, you only need a partial order and not a total one. In particular, this means that we don't need any pair of elements of $M$ to be comparable to each other to apply Zorn's Lemma.
It is true that some elements are comparable under $subseteq$ though. For example $A = {(1,0)} in M$ and $B = {(1,0),(0,1)}$ and we have $A subseteq B$. In fact, ${A,B}$ is a chain in $M$ and $B$ is its maximal element.
Finally, it's worth noticing that you really aren't using Zorn's lemma in this case because chains in $M$ are always finite so you can prove this result without choice. However, essentially the exact same proof (removing specific references to $mathbb{R}^2$) works for general $X$ and there you will need Zorn's lemma because in general chains will be very large.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For Zorn's Lemma, you only need a partial order and not a total one. In particular, this means that we don't need any pair of elements of $M$ to be comparable to each other to apply Zorn's Lemma.
It is true that some elements are comparable under $subseteq$ though. For example $A = {(1,0)} in M$ and $B = {(1,0),(0,1)}$ and we have $A subseteq B$. In fact, ${A,B}$ is a chain in $M$ and $B$ is its maximal element.
Finally, it's worth noticing that you really aren't using Zorn's lemma in this case because chains in $M$ are always finite so you can prove this result without choice. However, essentially the exact same proof (removing specific references to $mathbb{R}^2$) works for general $X$ and there you will need Zorn's lemma because in general chains will be very large.
$endgroup$
For Zorn's Lemma, you only need a partial order and not a total one. In particular, this means that we don't need any pair of elements of $M$ to be comparable to each other to apply Zorn's Lemma.
It is true that some elements are comparable under $subseteq$ though. For example $A = {(1,0)} in M$ and $B = {(1,0),(0,1)}$ and we have $A subseteq B$. In fact, ${A,B}$ is a chain in $M$ and $B$ is its maximal element.
Finally, it's worth noticing that you really aren't using Zorn's lemma in this case because chains in $M$ are always finite so you can prove this result without choice. However, essentially the exact same proof (removing specific references to $mathbb{R}^2$) works for general $X$ and there you will need Zorn's lemma because in general chains will be very large.
answered Nov 2 '18 at 13:49
Rhys SteeleRhys Steele
6,9601829
6,9601829
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The claim is that if $X$ be a vector space over a field $F$ and if $L$ is a linearly independent subset of $X$, there exists a basis of $X$ containing $L.$ The proof begins as follows:
Let $mathscr A$ be the collection of all linearly independent $sets$ of vectors containing $L$ (so $mathscr A$ is not empty,) ordered by inclusion. So using your example, we would have, for $L={(1,0),(0,1)}$ we have $ Lsubset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0)}subset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0),(0,2)}.$
A chain $C$ in $mathscr A$, is a collection of sets of linearly independent vectors, so $C$ is a $subset$ of $mathscr A$. And $C$ has the property that if $C_1$ and $C_2$ are members of $C$, then either $C_1subseteq C_2$ or $C_2subseteq C_1$. To apply Zorn's Lemma, you need only to show that the evident upper bound for $C$, namely $bigcup C$ is a set of linearly independent vectors.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The claim is that if $X$ be a vector space over a field $F$ and if $L$ is a linearly independent subset of $X$, there exists a basis of $X$ containing $L.$ The proof begins as follows:
Let $mathscr A$ be the collection of all linearly independent $sets$ of vectors containing $L$ (so $mathscr A$ is not empty,) ordered by inclusion. So using your example, we would have, for $L={(1,0),(0,1)}$ we have $ Lsubset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0)}subset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0),(0,2)}.$
A chain $C$ in $mathscr A$, is a collection of sets of linearly independent vectors, so $C$ is a $subset$ of $mathscr A$. And $C$ has the property that if $C_1$ and $C_2$ are members of $C$, then either $C_1subseteq C_2$ or $C_2subseteq C_1$. To apply Zorn's Lemma, you need only to show that the evident upper bound for $C$, namely $bigcup C$ is a set of linearly independent vectors.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The claim is that if $X$ be a vector space over a field $F$ and if $L$ is a linearly independent subset of $X$, there exists a basis of $X$ containing $L.$ The proof begins as follows:
Let $mathscr A$ be the collection of all linearly independent $sets$ of vectors containing $L$ (so $mathscr A$ is not empty,) ordered by inclusion. So using your example, we would have, for $L={(1,0),(0,1)}$ we have $ Lsubset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0)}subset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0),(0,2)}.$
A chain $C$ in $mathscr A$, is a collection of sets of linearly independent vectors, so $C$ is a $subset$ of $mathscr A$. And $C$ has the property that if $C_1$ and $C_2$ are members of $C$, then either $C_1subseteq C_2$ or $C_2subseteq C_1$. To apply Zorn's Lemma, you need only to show that the evident upper bound for $C$, namely $bigcup C$ is a set of linearly independent vectors.
$endgroup$
The claim is that if $X$ be a vector space over a field $F$ and if $L$ is a linearly independent subset of $X$, there exists a basis of $X$ containing $L.$ The proof begins as follows:
Let $mathscr A$ be the collection of all linearly independent $sets$ of vectors containing $L$ (so $mathscr A$ is not empty,) ordered by inclusion. So using your example, we would have, for $L={(1,0),(0,1)}$ we have $ Lsubset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0)}subset {(1,0),(0,1),(2,0),(0,2)}.$
A chain $C$ in $mathscr A$, is a collection of sets of linearly independent vectors, so $C$ is a $subset$ of $mathscr A$. And $C$ has the property that if $C_1$ and $C_2$ are members of $C$, then either $C_1subseteq C_2$ or $C_2subseteq C_1$. To apply Zorn's Lemma, you need only to show that the evident upper bound for $C$, namely $bigcup C$ is a set of linearly independent vectors.
answered Nov 2 '18 at 14:06
MatematletaMatematleta
11.5k2920
11.5k2920
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2981757%2fshowing-mathbbr2-has-a-hamel-basis-using-zorns-lemma%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
By "Hamel basis" do you mean $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb Q$? If you say "Hamel basis" with no explantation, that is what I would assume. In case it is $mathbb R^2$ as a vector space over $mathbb R$ the of course you do not need Zorn's Lemma to show the existence of a basis.
$endgroup$
– GEdgar
Nov 2 '18 at 14:28
$begingroup$
@GEdgar: From the context of the question, it seems that the question is indeed about $Bbb R^2$ over $Bbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
Nov 2 '18 at 14:48