If the party is hidden prior to attacking enemies, do they surprise the enemies and/or get advantage on their...
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
Our adroit heroes tracked the goblins back to a small camp in the woods. Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
The party attacks! Arrows rain down, spells are cast, and sword wielders rush in. Does our party:
- attack with advantage because they are hidden?
- only cause the unaware goblins to be surprised for the first round?
- get both surprise and advantage?
What are scenarios in which each of the above would occur?
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
Our adroit heroes tracked the goblins back to a small camp in the woods. Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
The party attacks! Arrows rain down, spells are cast, and sword wielders rush in. Does our party:
- attack with advantage because they are hidden?
- only cause the unaware goblins to be surprised for the first round?
- get both surprise and advantage?
What are scenarios in which each of the above would occur?
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
3
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
Our adroit heroes tracked the goblins back to a small camp in the woods. Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
The party attacks! Arrows rain down, spells are cast, and sword wielders rush in. Does our party:
- attack with advantage because they are hidden?
- only cause the unaware goblins to be surprised for the first round?
- get both surprise and advantage?
What are scenarios in which each of the above would occur?
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
Our adroit heroes tracked the goblins back to a small camp in the woods. Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
The party attacks! Arrows rain down, spells are cast, and sword wielders rush in. Does our party:
- attack with advantage because they are hidden?
- only cause the unaware goblins to be surprised for the first round?
- get both surprise and advantage?
What are scenarios in which each of the above would occur?
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
dnd-5e stealth advantage surprise
edited yesterday
asked 2 days ago
SeeDerekEngineer
1,0831932
1,0831932
3
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
2 days ago
add a comment |
3
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
2 days ago
3
3
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
2 days ago
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
18
down vote
accepted
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
2 days ago
9
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
2 days ago
1
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
Don’t forget passive perception check to determine who is actually receives the “surprise” condition.
– XAQT78
yesterday
@XAQT78 I'm not sure what you're suggesting--isn't that covered by the parenthetical in the first paragraph?
– nitsua60♦
yesterday
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
18
down vote
accepted
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
2 days ago
9
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
2 days ago
1
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
Don’t forget passive perception check to determine who is actually receives the “surprise” condition.
– XAQT78
yesterday
@XAQT78 I'm not sure what you're suggesting--isn't that covered by the parenthetical in the first paragraph?
– nitsua60♦
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
accepted
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
2 days ago
9
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
2 days ago
1
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
Don’t forget passive perception check to determine who is actually receives the “surprise” condition.
– XAQT78
yesterday
@XAQT78 I'm not sure what you're suggesting--isn't that covered by the parenthetical in the first paragraph?
– nitsua60♦
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
accepted
up vote
18
down vote
accepted
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
It's all in your description:
Completely unaware of the threat around them, the goblins sit around a fire, easy prey to the hidden band of adventurers lurking in the trees.
You, the GM, have already determined that the goblins are completely unaware and that the adventurers are hidden. (Some GMs might have compared stealth vs. perception, some might let the fiction do the talking for them, you may have done neither; see DMG p. 237 for more on how to decide whether or not to require checks in this instance.)
That the goblins are completely unaware means they are surprised. From PHB p.189 at "Surprise":
Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.
That the adventurers are hidden means that they attack at advantage. From PHB p.195 at "Unseen Attackers and Targets":
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.
So as you describe it your archers and (presumably-ranged casters) would have advantage. Those sword-wielders, though... they lose their advantage as they come into sight and attack (presumably while visible) the goblins in melee.
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
nitsua60♦
71.7k12294418
71.7k12294418
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
2 days ago
9
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
2 days ago
1
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
Don’t forget passive perception check to determine who is actually receives the “surprise” condition.
– XAQT78
yesterday
@XAQT78 I'm not sure what you're suggesting--isn't that covered by the parenthetical in the first paragraph?
– nitsua60♦
yesterday
add a comment |
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
2 days ago
9
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
2 days ago
1
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
Don’t forget passive perception check to determine who is actually receives the “surprise” condition.
– XAQT78
yesterday
@XAQT78 I'm not sure what you're suggesting--isn't that covered by the parenthetical in the first paragraph?
– nitsua60♦
yesterday
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
2 days ago
But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden. For the enemy to be completely unaware the party must be hidden, no?
– SeeDerekEngineer
2 days ago
9
9
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
2 days ago
@SeeDerekEngineer the classic surprise scenario that doesn't involve hidden attackers is when you and I can hear orcs in the next room, so we bust down the door swords-a-blazin' and attack. We got the drop on them for surprise-purposes, but they can actually see us swinging and so our attacks aren't advantaged. Another might be if we were negotiating with innocent do-gooders while intending to double-cross them the entire time. On your signal we both draw and stab--surprise! (Perhaps contingent on the result of a deception-insight contest.) But seen.
– nitsua60♦
2 days ago
1
1
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
@SeeDerekEngineer this isn't a line of computer code in a computer game. But wouldnt every Instance of surprise entail the party be hidden
– KorvinStarmast
2 days ago
Don’t forget passive perception check to determine who is actually receives the “surprise” condition.
– XAQT78
yesterday
Don’t forget passive perception check to determine who is actually receives the “surprise” condition.
– XAQT78
yesterday
@XAQT78 I'm not sure what you're suggesting--isn't that covered by the parenthetical in the first paragraph?
– nitsua60♦
yesterday
@XAQT78 I'm not sure what you're suggesting--isn't that covered by the parenthetical in the first paragraph?
– nitsua60♦
yesterday
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f136453%2fif-the-party-is-hidden-prior-to-attacking-enemies-do-they-surprise-the-enemies%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
3
You should keep in mind that there is no concept of a 'surprise round' in 5e; it might be clearer if your question doesn't imply it to be the case.
– Glen_b
2 days ago