How to find the average value/sum of combinations with repetitions












0














Let's say I have a set ${1, 2, ...x}$ and pick every distinct combination of length 3 (including repeated numbers) and create a new set by adding values equal to the product of the elements in each combination. For example, if x = 4 the new set would be:



$${1*1*1, 2*1*1, 2*1*2, 2*2*2, 3*1*1, ... , 4*4*3, 4*4*4}$$



These combinations are unique (that is, no value in the new set is repeated).



My goal is to find the sum of these values in terms of $x$. I already know the size of the new set in terms of $x$ which is why I ask for the average value (unless finding the sum is easier without the average and size).



Hopefully my explanation of the set was clear but if needed I can elaborate more.



Thank you kindly!










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  • Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:31










  • Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:34












  • I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:41










  • Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:45










  • I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:55
















0














Let's say I have a set ${1, 2, ...x}$ and pick every distinct combination of length 3 (including repeated numbers) and create a new set by adding values equal to the product of the elements in each combination. For example, if x = 4 the new set would be:



$${1*1*1, 2*1*1, 2*1*2, 2*2*2, 3*1*1, ... , 4*4*3, 4*4*4}$$



These combinations are unique (that is, no value in the new set is repeated).



My goal is to find the sum of these values in terms of $x$. I already know the size of the new set in terms of $x$ which is why I ask for the average value (unless finding the sum is easier without the average and size).



Hopefully my explanation of the set was clear but if needed I can elaborate more.



Thank you kindly!










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:31










  • Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:34












  • I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:41










  • Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:45










  • I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:55














0












0








0







Let's say I have a set ${1, 2, ...x}$ and pick every distinct combination of length 3 (including repeated numbers) and create a new set by adding values equal to the product of the elements in each combination. For example, if x = 4 the new set would be:



$${1*1*1, 2*1*1, 2*1*2, 2*2*2, 3*1*1, ... , 4*4*3, 4*4*4}$$



These combinations are unique (that is, no value in the new set is repeated).



My goal is to find the sum of these values in terms of $x$. I already know the size of the new set in terms of $x$ which is why I ask for the average value (unless finding the sum is easier without the average and size).



Hopefully my explanation of the set was clear but if needed I can elaborate more.



Thank you kindly!










share|cite|improve this question















Let's say I have a set ${1, 2, ...x}$ and pick every distinct combination of length 3 (including repeated numbers) and create a new set by adding values equal to the product of the elements in each combination. For example, if x = 4 the new set would be:



$${1*1*1, 2*1*1, 2*1*2, 2*2*2, 3*1*1, ... , 4*4*3, 4*4*4}$$



These combinations are unique (that is, no value in the new set is repeated).



My goal is to find the sum of these values in terms of $x$. I already know the size of the new set in terms of $x$ which is why I ask for the average value (unless finding the sum is easier without the average and size).



Hopefully my explanation of the set was clear but if needed I can elaborate more.



Thank you kindly!







combinatorics summation average






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Nov 25 at 6:46

























asked Nov 25 at 6:25









Gizmo

357111




357111












  • Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:31










  • Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:34












  • I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:41










  • Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:45










  • I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:55


















  • Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:31










  • Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:34












  • I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:41










  • Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:45










  • I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:55
















Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:31




Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:31












Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 6:34






Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 6:34














I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:41




I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:41












Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 6:45




Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 6:45












I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:55




I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:55










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1














Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21



















0














Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33













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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1














Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21
















1














Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21














1












1








1






Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.






share|cite|improve this answer












Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.







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share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Nov 25 at 15:34









saulspatz

13.8k21328




13.8k21328












  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21


















  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21
















I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 20:48






I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 20:48














@Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 22:21




@Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 22:21











0














Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33


















0














Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33
















0












0








0






Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).






share|cite|improve this answer














Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 25 at 21:38

























answered Nov 25 at 9:01









Gizmo

357111




357111








  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33
















  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33










1




1




I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 14:27




I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 14:27












Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 21:33






Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 21:33




















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