How to find the average value/sum of combinations with repetitions












0














Let's say I have a set ${1, 2, ...x}$ and pick every distinct combination of length 3 (including repeated numbers) and create a new set by adding values equal to the product of the elements in each combination. For example, if x = 4 the new set would be:



$${1*1*1, 2*1*1, 2*1*2, 2*2*2, 3*1*1, ... , 4*4*3, 4*4*4}$$



These combinations are unique (that is, no value in the new set is repeated).



My goal is to find the sum of these values in terms of $x$. I already know the size of the new set in terms of $x$ which is why I ask for the average value (unless finding the sum is easier without the average and size).



Hopefully my explanation of the set was clear but if needed I can elaborate more.



Thank you kindly!










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:31










  • Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:34












  • I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:41










  • Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:45










  • I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:55
















0














Let's say I have a set ${1, 2, ...x}$ and pick every distinct combination of length 3 (including repeated numbers) and create a new set by adding values equal to the product of the elements in each combination. For example, if x = 4 the new set would be:



$${1*1*1, 2*1*1, 2*1*2, 2*2*2, 3*1*1, ... , 4*4*3, 4*4*4}$$



These combinations are unique (that is, no value in the new set is repeated).



My goal is to find the sum of these values in terms of $x$. I already know the size of the new set in terms of $x$ which is why I ask for the average value (unless finding the sum is easier without the average and size).



Hopefully my explanation of the set was clear but if needed I can elaborate more.



Thank you kindly!










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:31










  • Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:34












  • I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:41










  • Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:45










  • I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:55














0












0








0







Let's say I have a set ${1, 2, ...x}$ and pick every distinct combination of length 3 (including repeated numbers) and create a new set by adding values equal to the product of the elements in each combination. For example, if x = 4 the new set would be:



$${1*1*1, 2*1*1, 2*1*2, 2*2*2, 3*1*1, ... , 4*4*3, 4*4*4}$$



These combinations are unique (that is, no value in the new set is repeated).



My goal is to find the sum of these values in terms of $x$. I already know the size of the new set in terms of $x$ which is why I ask for the average value (unless finding the sum is easier without the average and size).



Hopefully my explanation of the set was clear but if needed I can elaborate more.



Thank you kindly!










share|cite|improve this question















Let's say I have a set ${1, 2, ...x}$ and pick every distinct combination of length 3 (including repeated numbers) and create a new set by adding values equal to the product of the elements in each combination. For example, if x = 4 the new set would be:



$${1*1*1, 2*1*1, 2*1*2, 2*2*2, 3*1*1, ... , 4*4*3, 4*4*4}$$



These combinations are unique (that is, no value in the new set is repeated).



My goal is to find the sum of these values in terms of $x$. I already know the size of the new set in terms of $x$ which is why I ask for the average value (unless finding the sum is easier without the average and size).



Hopefully my explanation of the set was clear but if needed I can elaborate more.



Thank you kindly!







combinatorics summation average






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 25 at 6:46

























asked Nov 25 at 6:25









Gizmo

357111




357111












  • Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:31










  • Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:34












  • I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:41










  • Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:45










  • I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:55


















  • Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:31










  • Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:34












  • I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:41










  • Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 6:45










  • I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 6:55
















Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:31




Isn't the sum just $(1+2+cdots+x)^3?$
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:31












Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 6:34






Well for example, for x = 2 the sum would be 1*1*1 + 2*1*1 + 2*2*1 + 2*2*2 = 15, but 3^3 = 27. I think that form would be if the elements were not distinct in the new set. Although that does give me an idea...
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 6:34














I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:41




I thought you would be counting $1cdot1cdot2cdot1$ etc. as well. I guess you want to count the product of the same three numbers only once then. Is that right?
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:41












Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 6:45




Correct. Sorry, I'll edit it so it's clearer on that.
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 6:45












I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:55




I'm too sleepy to write an answer now, but you do this by starting with the expression I suggested at first, and isolating the parts with $1,2,$ or $3$ distinct factors. If you haven't got it worked out by tomorrow, ping me and I'll write an answer.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 6:55










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1














Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21



















0














Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33













Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3012500%2fhow-to-find-the-average-value-sum-of-combinations-with-repetitions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1














Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21
















1














Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21














1












1








1






Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.






share|cite|improve this answer












Here is a little different approach. I will write $n$ instead of $x$ as the variable. It's silly, but I can't get used to $x$ being an integer variable.



We seek to evaluate $T=T_1+T_2+T_3,$ where
$$begin{align}
T_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}\
T_2&=sum_{i=1}^nsum_{j=1\jne i}^n{ij^2}\
T_1&=sum_{i=1}^{n-2}sum_{j=i+1}^{n-1}sum_{k=k+1}^n{ijk}
end{align}$$

We will use the following well-known formulas:
$$begin{align}
S_3&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^3}={n^2(n+1)^2over4}\
S_2&=sum_{i=1}^n{i^2}={n(n+1)(2n+1)over6}\
S_1&=sum_{i=1}^n{i}={n(n+1)over2}
end{align}$$

Note first that $$T_3=S_3tag{1}$$
Then
$T_2=(1^2+2^2+cdots+n^2)(1+2+cdots+n)-(1^3+2^3+cdots+n^3).$ That is,
$$T_2=S_2S_1-S_3tag{2}$$
To compute $T_1,$ note that in the expression $(1+2+3+cdots+n)^3,$ each term of $T_3$ occurs once, each term of $T_2$ occurs $3$ times, and each term of $T_1$ occurs $6$ times so that
$$begin{align}
S_1^3 &= T_3+3T_2+6T_1\
T_1&={S_1^3-T_3-3T_2over6}=\
&={S_1^3-S_3-3S_2S_1+3S_3over6}=\
&={S_1^3-3S_2S_1+2S_3over6}tag{3}
end{align}$$

using $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Now, using $(1),(2),text{ and }(3),$ we get $$T={S_1^3+3S_2S_1+2S_3over6},$$ and substituting the formulas for $S_1,S_2,S_3$ and slogging through the algebra gives $$T=boxed{{n^2(n+1)^2(n+2)(n+3)over48}={n+1choose2}{n+3choose4}}$$
Sanity check: $n=2$ gives ${3choose2}{5choose4}=3cdot5=15,$ in agreement with your calculation.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Nov 25 at 15:34









saulspatz

13.8k21328




13.8k21328












  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21


















  • I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 20:48












  • @Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 22:21
















I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 20:48






I'm in awe yet again at the genius of some of the users here. This is practically the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thank you so much! I apologize that you had to go through all that algebra though...
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 20:48














@Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 22:21




@Gizmo Glad to help. No apology needed. This is not genius by any means, but well-known technique.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 22:21











0














Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33


















0














Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33
















0












0








0






Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).






share|cite|improve this answer














Using saulspatz's advice, I found that the sum of the terms in the new set of size $x$ is equivalent to:



$$(1 + cdots + x)^3 - (1 + cdots + x)(2 + 3(1+2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$$ $$=
left( sum_{i=0}^xi right) *left[ left( sum_{i=0}^xi right)^2 - sum_{i=1}^x i *left(sum_{j=0}^i j right) right]$$



enter image description here



While I offer my gratitude to saulspatz for his/her help I do wonder if this could be expressed more simply.



Edit: I included a picture of an example of $x = 4$ to show this equivalency, where $S_A$ is the sum of the terms in the new set (what we are trying to find).







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 25 at 21:38

























answered Nov 25 at 9:01









Gizmo

357111




357111








  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33
















  • 1




    I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
    – saulspatz
    Nov 25 at 14:27










  • Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
    – Gizmo
    Nov 25 at 21:33










1




1




I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 14:27




I don't see how you arrived at this formula. Please fill in the reasoning. The formula can certainly be simplified, but I'd like to be sure it's correct before I show you how to do that.
– saulspatz
Nov 25 at 14:27












Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 21:33






Don't worry I compared it with the original to make sure it's equivalent. Essentially I multiplied out $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ and isolated the terms that show up in the original sum/new set. The rest of the terms from $(1 + cdots + x)^3$ can be arranged in the form $(1 + cdots + x) (1*0 + 2*1 + 3*(1 + 2) + cdots + x(1 + cdots + x))$.
– Gizmo
Nov 25 at 21:33




















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3012500%2fhow-to-find-the-average-value-sum-of-combinations-with-repetitions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Ellipse (mathématiques)

Quarter-circle Tiles

Mont Emei