Prove that $langle x,y,|x^2,y^2rangle$ is an infinite group











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Here is my attempt:
$xyx neq xyxy neq xyxyx neq xyxyxy....$ gives infinite many elements in the group.
Is this correct?










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    Yes...as long as it is clear to you why those elements are non-trivial. Your group is the free product $;C_2*C_2;$ , and free products are finite iff one of the factors is the trivial group and the other one is a finite group.
    – DonAntonio
    Nov 21 at 13:47






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    You have the right idea, but it'd be better to formalize it. You might instead try showing that the powers of $xy$ are distinct.
    – Cameron Buie
    Nov 21 at 13:49










  • Why exactly are those words distinct (in particular, nontrivial)?
    – anomaly
    Nov 21 at 13:55















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












Here is my attempt:
$xyx neq xyxy neq xyxyx neq xyxyxy....$ gives infinite many elements in the group.
Is this correct?










share|cite|improve this question


















  • 1




    Yes...as long as it is clear to you why those elements are non-trivial. Your group is the free product $;C_2*C_2;$ , and free products are finite iff one of the factors is the trivial group and the other one is a finite group.
    – DonAntonio
    Nov 21 at 13:47






  • 1




    You have the right idea, but it'd be better to formalize it. You might instead try showing that the powers of $xy$ are distinct.
    – Cameron Buie
    Nov 21 at 13:49










  • Why exactly are those words distinct (in particular, nontrivial)?
    – anomaly
    Nov 21 at 13:55













up vote
1
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up vote
1
down vote

favorite











Here is my attempt:
$xyx neq xyxy neq xyxyx neq xyxyxy....$ gives infinite many elements in the group.
Is this correct?










share|cite|improve this question













Here is my attempt:
$xyx neq xyxy neq xyxyx neq xyxyxy....$ gives infinite many elements in the group.
Is this correct?







finitely-generated






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asked Nov 21 at 13:44









mathnoob

1,563321




1,563321








  • 1




    Yes...as long as it is clear to you why those elements are non-trivial. Your group is the free product $;C_2*C_2;$ , and free products are finite iff one of the factors is the trivial group and the other one is a finite group.
    – DonAntonio
    Nov 21 at 13:47






  • 1




    You have the right idea, but it'd be better to formalize it. You might instead try showing that the powers of $xy$ are distinct.
    – Cameron Buie
    Nov 21 at 13:49










  • Why exactly are those words distinct (in particular, nontrivial)?
    – anomaly
    Nov 21 at 13:55














  • 1




    Yes...as long as it is clear to you why those elements are non-trivial. Your group is the free product $;C_2*C_2;$ , and free products are finite iff one of the factors is the trivial group and the other one is a finite group.
    – DonAntonio
    Nov 21 at 13:47






  • 1




    You have the right idea, but it'd be better to formalize it. You might instead try showing that the powers of $xy$ are distinct.
    – Cameron Buie
    Nov 21 at 13:49










  • Why exactly are those words distinct (in particular, nontrivial)?
    – anomaly
    Nov 21 at 13:55








1




1




Yes...as long as it is clear to you why those elements are non-trivial. Your group is the free product $;C_2*C_2;$ , and free products are finite iff one of the factors is the trivial group and the other one is a finite group.
– DonAntonio
Nov 21 at 13:47




Yes...as long as it is clear to you why those elements are non-trivial. Your group is the free product $;C_2*C_2;$ , and free products are finite iff one of the factors is the trivial group and the other one is a finite group.
– DonAntonio
Nov 21 at 13:47




1




1




You have the right idea, but it'd be better to formalize it. You might instead try showing that the powers of $xy$ are distinct.
– Cameron Buie
Nov 21 at 13:49




You have the right idea, but it'd be better to formalize it. You might instead try showing that the powers of $xy$ are distinct.
– Cameron Buie
Nov 21 at 13:49












Why exactly are those words distinct (in particular, nontrivial)?
– anomaly
Nov 21 at 13:55




Why exactly are those words distinct (in particular, nontrivial)?
– anomaly
Nov 21 at 13:55










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You're on the right track! Let $text{FG}(x,y)=langle x,yrangle$, $G=langle x,ymid x^2,y^2rangle$, and $H$ be the minimal normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ containing both $x^2$ and $y^2$. There is a canonical quotient homomorphism $eta:text{FG}(x,y)to G$.



We know that every element of $text{FG}(x,y)$ may be uniquely presented as a concatenation of $x,y,x^{-1},y^{1}$ such that no $x$ borders an $x^{-1}$ and likewise for $y$. For an arbitrary element $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ denote this presentation as $overline{g}$.



Consider the following algorithm $A$: given $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ we replace each instance of $x^{-1}$ and $y^{-1}$ in $overline{g}$ with $x$ and $y$ respectively. We then remove stepwise the leftmnost instances of $xx$ and $yy$ present until no such substrings remain. To take concrete examples, $$A:x^{-1}yyxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}xmapsto x$$ $$A:x^{-1}yyxxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxxmapsto overbrace{xx}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}mapsto text{empty}$$ Where "$text{empty}$" is the empty string.



Denote $H'$ the subset of elements $text{FG}(x,y)$ for whom $A$ outputs the null string. We can show that $H'$ is a subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ and in particular a normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$. Let $eta':text{FG}(x,y)to text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ be the associated quotient map. Then we have that $eta'$ factors through a morphism $kappa:Gto text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ in the sense that $eta'=kappacirc eta$. Our $kappa$ is therefore surjective (since $eta'$ is surjective). So it suffices to demonstrate that $text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ is infinite.



To that end consider the sequence of elements $$eta'(xyx) neq eta(xyxy)' neq eta'(xyxyx) neq eta'(xyxyxy)dots$$
We will prove that the elements of this sequence are pairwise distinct. Let $eta'(g_1)$ and $eta'(g_2)$ be two such elements. It suffices to show that $eta'(g_1)eta'(g_2)^{-1}neq 1iff A(g_1g_2^{-1})neq text{empty}$. Can you finish from here?





It's worth noting that $H=H'$ and thus that $Gcong text{FG}(x,y)/H'$. The proof isn't that hard. (Specifically we've proven that $Hsubseteq H'$, proving that $H'subseteq H$ would do the trick.)






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    You're on the right track! Let $text{FG}(x,y)=langle x,yrangle$, $G=langle x,ymid x^2,y^2rangle$, and $H$ be the minimal normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ containing both $x^2$ and $y^2$. There is a canonical quotient homomorphism $eta:text{FG}(x,y)to G$.



    We know that every element of $text{FG}(x,y)$ may be uniquely presented as a concatenation of $x,y,x^{-1},y^{1}$ such that no $x$ borders an $x^{-1}$ and likewise for $y$. For an arbitrary element $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ denote this presentation as $overline{g}$.



    Consider the following algorithm $A$: given $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ we replace each instance of $x^{-1}$ and $y^{-1}$ in $overline{g}$ with $x$ and $y$ respectively. We then remove stepwise the leftmnost instances of $xx$ and $yy$ present until no such substrings remain. To take concrete examples, $$A:x^{-1}yyxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}xmapsto x$$ $$A:x^{-1}yyxxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxxmapsto overbrace{xx}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}mapsto text{empty}$$ Where "$text{empty}$" is the empty string.



    Denote $H'$ the subset of elements $text{FG}(x,y)$ for whom $A$ outputs the null string. We can show that $H'$ is a subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ and in particular a normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$. Let $eta':text{FG}(x,y)to text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ be the associated quotient map. Then we have that $eta'$ factors through a morphism $kappa:Gto text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ in the sense that $eta'=kappacirc eta$. Our $kappa$ is therefore surjective (since $eta'$ is surjective). So it suffices to demonstrate that $text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ is infinite.



    To that end consider the sequence of elements $$eta'(xyx) neq eta(xyxy)' neq eta'(xyxyx) neq eta'(xyxyxy)dots$$
    We will prove that the elements of this sequence are pairwise distinct. Let $eta'(g_1)$ and $eta'(g_2)$ be two such elements. It suffices to show that $eta'(g_1)eta'(g_2)^{-1}neq 1iff A(g_1g_2^{-1})neq text{empty}$. Can you finish from here?





    It's worth noting that $H=H'$ and thus that $Gcong text{FG}(x,y)/H'$. The proof isn't that hard. (Specifically we've proven that $Hsubseteq H'$, proving that $H'subseteq H$ would do the trick.)






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
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      You're on the right track! Let $text{FG}(x,y)=langle x,yrangle$, $G=langle x,ymid x^2,y^2rangle$, and $H$ be the minimal normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ containing both $x^2$ and $y^2$. There is a canonical quotient homomorphism $eta:text{FG}(x,y)to G$.



      We know that every element of $text{FG}(x,y)$ may be uniquely presented as a concatenation of $x,y,x^{-1},y^{1}$ such that no $x$ borders an $x^{-1}$ and likewise for $y$. For an arbitrary element $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ denote this presentation as $overline{g}$.



      Consider the following algorithm $A$: given $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ we replace each instance of $x^{-1}$ and $y^{-1}$ in $overline{g}$ with $x$ and $y$ respectively. We then remove stepwise the leftmnost instances of $xx$ and $yy$ present until no such substrings remain. To take concrete examples, $$A:x^{-1}yyxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}xmapsto x$$ $$A:x^{-1}yyxxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxxmapsto overbrace{xx}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}mapsto text{empty}$$ Where "$text{empty}$" is the empty string.



      Denote $H'$ the subset of elements $text{FG}(x,y)$ for whom $A$ outputs the null string. We can show that $H'$ is a subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ and in particular a normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$. Let $eta':text{FG}(x,y)to text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ be the associated quotient map. Then we have that $eta'$ factors through a morphism $kappa:Gto text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ in the sense that $eta'=kappacirc eta$. Our $kappa$ is therefore surjective (since $eta'$ is surjective). So it suffices to demonstrate that $text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ is infinite.



      To that end consider the sequence of elements $$eta'(xyx) neq eta(xyxy)' neq eta'(xyxyx) neq eta'(xyxyxy)dots$$
      We will prove that the elements of this sequence are pairwise distinct. Let $eta'(g_1)$ and $eta'(g_2)$ be two such elements. It suffices to show that $eta'(g_1)eta'(g_2)^{-1}neq 1iff A(g_1g_2^{-1})neq text{empty}$. Can you finish from here?





      It's worth noting that $H=H'$ and thus that $Gcong text{FG}(x,y)/H'$. The proof isn't that hard. (Specifically we've proven that $Hsubseteq H'$, proving that $H'subseteq H$ would do the trick.)






      share|cite|improve this answer























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        You're on the right track! Let $text{FG}(x,y)=langle x,yrangle$, $G=langle x,ymid x^2,y^2rangle$, and $H$ be the minimal normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ containing both $x^2$ and $y^2$. There is a canonical quotient homomorphism $eta:text{FG}(x,y)to G$.



        We know that every element of $text{FG}(x,y)$ may be uniquely presented as a concatenation of $x,y,x^{-1},y^{1}$ such that no $x$ borders an $x^{-1}$ and likewise for $y$. For an arbitrary element $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ denote this presentation as $overline{g}$.



        Consider the following algorithm $A$: given $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ we replace each instance of $x^{-1}$ and $y^{-1}$ in $overline{g}$ with $x$ and $y$ respectively. We then remove stepwise the leftmnost instances of $xx$ and $yy$ present until no such substrings remain. To take concrete examples, $$A:x^{-1}yyxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}xmapsto x$$ $$A:x^{-1}yyxxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxxmapsto overbrace{xx}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}mapsto text{empty}$$ Where "$text{empty}$" is the empty string.



        Denote $H'$ the subset of elements $text{FG}(x,y)$ for whom $A$ outputs the null string. We can show that $H'$ is a subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ and in particular a normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$. Let $eta':text{FG}(x,y)to text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ be the associated quotient map. Then we have that $eta'$ factors through a morphism $kappa:Gto text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ in the sense that $eta'=kappacirc eta$. Our $kappa$ is therefore surjective (since $eta'$ is surjective). So it suffices to demonstrate that $text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ is infinite.



        To that end consider the sequence of elements $$eta'(xyx) neq eta(xyxy)' neq eta'(xyxyx) neq eta'(xyxyxy)dots$$
        We will prove that the elements of this sequence are pairwise distinct. Let $eta'(g_1)$ and $eta'(g_2)$ be two such elements. It suffices to show that $eta'(g_1)eta'(g_2)^{-1}neq 1iff A(g_1g_2^{-1})neq text{empty}$. Can you finish from here?





        It's worth noting that $H=H'$ and thus that $Gcong text{FG}(x,y)/H'$. The proof isn't that hard. (Specifically we've proven that $Hsubseteq H'$, proving that $H'subseteq H$ would do the trick.)






        share|cite|improve this answer












        You're on the right track! Let $text{FG}(x,y)=langle x,yrangle$, $G=langle x,ymid x^2,y^2rangle$, and $H$ be the minimal normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ containing both $x^2$ and $y^2$. There is a canonical quotient homomorphism $eta:text{FG}(x,y)to G$.



        We know that every element of $text{FG}(x,y)$ may be uniquely presented as a concatenation of $x,y,x^{-1},y^{1}$ such that no $x$ borders an $x^{-1}$ and likewise for $y$. For an arbitrary element $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ denote this presentation as $overline{g}$.



        Consider the following algorithm $A$: given $gin text{FG}(x,y)$ we replace each instance of $x^{-1}$ and $y^{-1}$ in $overline{g}$ with $x$ and $y$ respectively. We then remove stepwise the leftmnost instances of $xx$ and $yy$ present until no such substrings remain. To take concrete examples, $$A:x^{-1}yyxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}xmapsto x$$ $$A:x^{-1}yyxxxmapsto xoverbrace{yy}xxxmapsto overbrace{xx}xxmapsto overbrace{xx}mapsto text{empty}$$ Where "$text{empty}$" is the empty string.



        Denote $H'$ the subset of elements $text{FG}(x,y)$ for whom $A$ outputs the null string. We can show that $H'$ is a subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$ and in particular a normal subgroup of $text{FG}(x,y)$. Let $eta':text{FG}(x,y)to text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ be the associated quotient map. Then we have that $eta'$ factors through a morphism $kappa:Gto text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ in the sense that $eta'=kappacirc eta$. Our $kappa$ is therefore surjective (since $eta'$ is surjective). So it suffices to demonstrate that $text{FG}(x,y)/H'$ is infinite.



        To that end consider the sequence of elements $$eta'(xyx) neq eta(xyxy)' neq eta'(xyxyx) neq eta'(xyxyxy)dots$$
        We will prove that the elements of this sequence are pairwise distinct. Let $eta'(g_1)$ and $eta'(g_2)$ be two such elements. It suffices to show that $eta'(g_1)eta'(g_2)^{-1}neq 1iff A(g_1g_2^{-1})neq text{empty}$. Can you finish from here?





        It's worth noting that $H=H'$ and thus that $Gcong text{FG}(x,y)/H'$. The proof isn't that hard. (Specifically we've proven that $Hsubseteq H'$, proving that $H'subseteq H$ would do the trick.)







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        answered Nov 21 at 22:03









        Rafay Ashary

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