Minimal number of ball draws in order to get 0.999 probability












1












$begingroup$


I recently got a very confusing question regarding probability. I read it a lot of times but I just could not understand it, so I will try to write it in the best way possible.



We have a group of natural numbers $A$ $=$ ${1,2,...,N}$. We have a box full of balls and the box contains $n$ balls so that $n in A$.
In the box there is 1 black ball and the rest are white balls. We draw a random ball and we repeat. What is the minimal number of ball draws (with returning the ball back to the box) do we need in order to conclude that in a probability of at least 0.999 we have $n = 1$ or $n > 1$.



Notes from the question:-



$1.$ The meaning of the word "conclude" in this context is that if all the balls that we drew were black that means $n = 1$ and if we drew at least $1$ white ball then that means $n > 1$.



$2.$ The lecturer told me that it is enough to find the minimal number of ball draws if $n = 2$.



My Approach:-



I thought of the ball draws as a Geometric variable $X$ with a success probability of $1/2$ because in case of $n = 2$ we have 1 black ball and 1 white ball. The variable $X$ counts the number times we drew a black ball until we draw a white ball for the first time. I tried to find the minimal number of draws from this equation that I thought of $P(X = k) ge 0.999$ and k is my answer but from this I get that k is $0$.



Any help with this?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    1












    $begingroup$


    I recently got a very confusing question regarding probability. I read it a lot of times but I just could not understand it, so I will try to write it in the best way possible.



    We have a group of natural numbers $A$ $=$ ${1,2,...,N}$. We have a box full of balls and the box contains $n$ balls so that $n in A$.
    In the box there is 1 black ball and the rest are white balls. We draw a random ball and we repeat. What is the minimal number of ball draws (with returning the ball back to the box) do we need in order to conclude that in a probability of at least 0.999 we have $n = 1$ or $n > 1$.



    Notes from the question:-



    $1.$ The meaning of the word "conclude" in this context is that if all the balls that we drew were black that means $n = 1$ and if we drew at least $1$ white ball then that means $n > 1$.



    $2.$ The lecturer told me that it is enough to find the minimal number of ball draws if $n = 2$.



    My Approach:-



    I thought of the ball draws as a Geometric variable $X$ with a success probability of $1/2$ because in case of $n = 2$ we have 1 black ball and 1 white ball. The variable $X$ counts the number times we drew a black ball until we draw a white ball for the first time. I tried to find the minimal number of draws from this equation that I thought of $P(X = k) ge 0.999$ and k is my answer but from this I get that k is $0$.



    Any help with this?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      1












      1








      1


      1



      $begingroup$


      I recently got a very confusing question regarding probability. I read it a lot of times but I just could not understand it, so I will try to write it in the best way possible.



      We have a group of natural numbers $A$ $=$ ${1,2,...,N}$. We have a box full of balls and the box contains $n$ balls so that $n in A$.
      In the box there is 1 black ball and the rest are white balls. We draw a random ball and we repeat. What is the minimal number of ball draws (with returning the ball back to the box) do we need in order to conclude that in a probability of at least 0.999 we have $n = 1$ or $n > 1$.



      Notes from the question:-



      $1.$ The meaning of the word "conclude" in this context is that if all the balls that we drew were black that means $n = 1$ and if we drew at least $1$ white ball then that means $n > 1$.



      $2.$ The lecturer told me that it is enough to find the minimal number of ball draws if $n = 2$.



      My Approach:-



      I thought of the ball draws as a Geometric variable $X$ with a success probability of $1/2$ because in case of $n = 2$ we have 1 black ball and 1 white ball. The variable $X$ counts the number times we drew a black ball until we draw a white ball for the first time. I tried to find the minimal number of draws from this equation that I thought of $P(X = k) ge 0.999$ and k is my answer but from this I get that k is $0$.



      Any help with this?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I recently got a very confusing question regarding probability. I read it a lot of times but I just could not understand it, so I will try to write it in the best way possible.



      We have a group of natural numbers $A$ $=$ ${1,2,...,N}$. We have a box full of balls and the box contains $n$ balls so that $n in A$.
      In the box there is 1 black ball and the rest are white balls. We draw a random ball and we repeat. What is the minimal number of ball draws (with returning the ball back to the box) do we need in order to conclude that in a probability of at least 0.999 we have $n = 1$ or $n > 1$.



      Notes from the question:-



      $1.$ The meaning of the word "conclude" in this context is that if all the balls that we drew were black that means $n = 1$ and if we drew at least $1$ white ball then that means $n > 1$.



      $2.$ The lecturer told me that it is enough to find the minimal number of ball draws if $n = 2$.



      My Approach:-



      I thought of the ball draws as a Geometric variable $X$ with a success probability of $1/2$ because in case of $n = 2$ we have 1 black ball and 1 white ball. The variable $X$ counts the number times we drew a black ball until we draw a white ball for the first time. I tried to find the minimal number of draws from this equation that I thought of $P(X = k) ge 0.999$ and k is my answer but from this I get that k is $0$.



      Any help with this?







      probability






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Dec 10 '18 at 13:18









      amWhy

      1




      1










      asked Dec 3 '18 at 9:46









      shadi helfshadi helf

      11018




      11018






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          0












          $begingroup$

          So there are totally $n$ balls, $1$ black and $n-1$ white, that you draw randomly with replacement.



          You draw a predetermined number $m$ of balls and for the result you distinguish just two outcomes:

          - a) all $m$ balls are black;

          - b) at least one of the balls is white, i.e. $b = neg ,a$;



          Clearly for outcome b) it doesn't matter whether you stop at the first white ball, or continue with all the $m$ draws.



          Assume that $n$ and $m$ are given, then
          $$
          P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {1 over {n^{,m} }}quad P(b;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = 1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}
          $$

          that is
          $$
          P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge n;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(n;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {n^{,m} }}
          $$



          $n$ is not known, and we are going to estimate it from the draws (at least this is my understanding).

          What is known is that $n in {1,2,cdots,N}$, $N$ is supposedly known and
          we may assume that $n$ is uniformly distributed in that range.



          Since $m$ and $n$ are independent, then



          $$
          P(n;left| {;m} right.) = P(n) = {1 over N}
          $$



          Denoting by $A$ the event $n=1$, and by $B= neg ,A$ the complementary event $1 < n le N$, we have
          $$
          left{ matrix{
          P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over {1^{,m} }}P(A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N} hfill cr
          P(b wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = 0 hfill cr
          P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
          = {1 over N}sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}} = {1 over N}left( {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} right) hfill cr
          P(b wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {left( {1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}} right)P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
          = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr
          P(a;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} quad quad
          P(b;left| {;m} right.) = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr} right.
          $$

          where the sum is expressed through the Generalized Harmonic number.



          We can therefore conclude that
          $$
          eqalign{
          & P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }} cr
          & P(B;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}}
          = left( {{{H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }}} right) = 1 - P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) cr}
          $$

          i.e. that, upon having drawn $m$ black balls, we can say that the probability
          that the urn contains just one black ball is $1 / {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)}}$.



          For example we get for $m=1,cdots,12$ :
          $N=2$
          $$frac{2}{3},frac{ 4}{5},frac{ 8}{9},frac{ 16}{17},frac{ 32}{33},frac{ 64}{65},frac{ 128}{129},frac{ 256}{257},frac{ 512}{513},
          frac{ 1024}{1025},frac{ 2048}{2049},frac{ 4096}{4097}$$

          $N=3$
          $$frac{6}{11},frac{ 36}{49},frac{ 216}{251},frac{ 1296}{1393},0.96584, 0.98329, 0.9918, 0.99596, 0.998, 0.99901, 0.99951, 0.99975$$
          (rounded to 5 digits)



          It looks that $m=10$ is the No. of "all-black" draws sufficient to state at $99.9%$ that the urn contains just one ball,
          for whichever $N ge 2$.



          In fact
          $$
          left{ matrix{
          {1 over {H_{,N - 1} ^{left( m right)} }} > {1 over {H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} }} hfill cr
          mathop {lim }limits_{N, to ,infty } H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} = zeta (m)quad quad hfill cr
          {1 over {zeta (10)}} = {{93555} over {pi ^{,10} }} > 0.999 hfill cr} right.
          $$






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













            Your Answer





            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
            });
            });
            }, "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "69"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });














            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3023844%2fminimal-number-of-ball-draws-in-order-to-get-0-999-probability%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes








            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            0












            $begingroup$

            So there are totally $n$ balls, $1$ black and $n-1$ white, that you draw randomly with replacement.



            You draw a predetermined number $m$ of balls and for the result you distinguish just two outcomes:

            - a) all $m$ balls are black;

            - b) at least one of the balls is white, i.e. $b = neg ,a$;



            Clearly for outcome b) it doesn't matter whether you stop at the first white ball, or continue with all the $m$ draws.



            Assume that $n$ and $m$ are given, then
            $$
            P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {1 over {n^{,m} }}quad P(b;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = 1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}
            $$

            that is
            $$
            P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge n;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(n;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {n^{,m} }}
            $$



            $n$ is not known, and we are going to estimate it from the draws (at least this is my understanding).

            What is known is that $n in {1,2,cdots,N}$, $N$ is supposedly known and
            we may assume that $n$ is uniformly distributed in that range.



            Since $m$ and $n$ are independent, then



            $$
            P(n;left| {;m} right.) = P(n) = {1 over N}
            $$



            Denoting by $A$ the event $n=1$, and by $B= neg ,A$ the complementary event $1 < n le N$, we have
            $$
            left{ matrix{
            P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over {1^{,m} }}P(A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N} hfill cr
            P(b wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = 0 hfill cr
            P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
            = {1 over N}sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}} = {1 over N}left( {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} right) hfill cr
            P(b wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {left( {1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}} right)P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
            = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr
            P(a;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} quad quad
            P(b;left| {;m} right.) = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr} right.
            $$

            where the sum is expressed through the Generalized Harmonic number.



            We can therefore conclude that
            $$
            eqalign{
            & P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }} cr
            & P(B;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}}
            = left( {{{H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }}} right) = 1 - P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) cr}
            $$

            i.e. that, upon having drawn $m$ black balls, we can say that the probability
            that the urn contains just one black ball is $1 / {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)}}$.



            For example we get for $m=1,cdots,12$ :
            $N=2$
            $$frac{2}{3},frac{ 4}{5},frac{ 8}{9},frac{ 16}{17},frac{ 32}{33},frac{ 64}{65},frac{ 128}{129},frac{ 256}{257},frac{ 512}{513},
            frac{ 1024}{1025},frac{ 2048}{2049},frac{ 4096}{4097}$$

            $N=3$
            $$frac{6}{11},frac{ 36}{49},frac{ 216}{251},frac{ 1296}{1393},0.96584, 0.98329, 0.9918, 0.99596, 0.998, 0.99901, 0.99951, 0.99975$$
            (rounded to 5 digits)



            It looks that $m=10$ is the No. of "all-black" draws sufficient to state at $99.9%$ that the urn contains just one ball,
            for whichever $N ge 2$.



            In fact
            $$
            left{ matrix{
            {1 over {H_{,N - 1} ^{left( m right)} }} > {1 over {H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} }} hfill cr
            mathop {lim }limits_{N, to ,infty } H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} = zeta (m)quad quad hfill cr
            {1 over {zeta (10)}} = {{93555} over {pi ^{,10} }} > 0.999 hfill cr} right.
            $$






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$


















              0












              $begingroup$

              So there are totally $n$ balls, $1$ black and $n-1$ white, that you draw randomly with replacement.



              You draw a predetermined number $m$ of balls and for the result you distinguish just two outcomes:

              - a) all $m$ balls are black;

              - b) at least one of the balls is white, i.e. $b = neg ,a$;



              Clearly for outcome b) it doesn't matter whether you stop at the first white ball, or continue with all the $m$ draws.



              Assume that $n$ and $m$ are given, then
              $$
              P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {1 over {n^{,m} }}quad P(b;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = 1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}
              $$

              that is
              $$
              P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge n;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(n;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {n^{,m} }}
              $$



              $n$ is not known, and we are going to estimate it from the draws (at least this is my understanding).

              What is known is that $n in {1,2,cdots,N}$, $N$ is supposedly known and
              we may assume that $n$ is uniformly distributed in that range.



              Since $m$ and $n$ are independent, then



              $$
              P(n;left| {;m} right.) = P(n) = {1 over N}
              $$



              Denoting by $A$ the event $n=1$, and by $B= neg ,A$ the complementary event $1 < n le N$, we have
              $$
              left{ matrix{
              P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over {1^{,m} }}P(A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N} hfill cr
              P(b wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = 0 hfill cr
              P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
              = {1 over N}sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}} = {1 over N}left( {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} right) hfill cr
              P(b wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {left( {1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}} right)P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
              = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr
              P(a;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} quad quad
              P(b;left| {;m} right.) = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr} right.
              $$

              where the sum is expressed through the Generalized Harmonic number.



              We can therefore conclude that
              $$
              eqalign{
              & P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }} cr
              & P(B;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}}
              = left( {{{H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }}} right) = 1 - P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) cr}
              $$

              i.e. that, upon having drawn $m$ black balls, we can say that the probability
              that the urn contains just one black ball is $1 / {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)}}$.



              For example we get for $m=1,cdots,12$ :
              $N=2$
              $$frac{2}{3},frac{ 4}{5},frac{ 8}{9},frac{ 16}{17},frac{ 32}{33},frac{ 64}{65},frac{ 128}{129},frac{ 256}{257},frac{ 512}{513},
              frac{ 1024}{1025},frac{ 2048}{2049},frac{ 4096}{4097}$$

              $N=3$
              $$frac{6}{11},frac{ 36}{49},frac{ 216}{251},frac{ 1296}{1393},0.96584, 0.98329, 0.9918, 0.99596, 0.998, 0.99901, 0.99951, 0.99975$$
              (rounded to 5 digits)



              It looks that $m=10$ is the No. of "all-black" draws sufficient to state at $99.9%$ that the urn contains just one ball,
              for whichever $N ge 2$.



              In fact
              $$
              left{ matrix{
              {1 over {H_{,N - 1} ^{left( m right)} }} > {1 over {H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} }} hfill cr
              mathop {lim }limits_{N, to ,infty } H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} = zeta (m)quad quad hfill cr
              {1 over {zeta (10)}} = {{93555} over {pi ^{,10} }} > 0.999 hfill cr} right.
              $$






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$
















                0












                0








                0





                $begingroup$

                So there are totally $n$ balls, $1$ black and $n-1$ white, that you draw randomly with replacement.



                You draw a predetermined number $m$ of balls and for the result you distinguish just two outcomes:

                - a) all $m$ balls are black;

                - b) at least one of the balls is white, i.e. $b = neg ,a$;



                Clearly for outcome b) it doesn't matter whether you stop at the first white ball, or continue with all the $m$ draws.



                Assume that $n$ and $m$ are given, then
                $$
                P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {1 over {n^{,m} }}quad P(b;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = 1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}
                $$

                that is
                $$
                P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge n;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(n;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {n^{,m} }}
                $$



                $n$ is not known, and we are going to estimate it from the draws (at least this is my understanding).

                What is known is that $n in {1,2,cdots,N}$, $N$ is supposedly known and
                we may assume that $n$ is uniformly distributed in that range.



                Since $m$ and $n$ are independent, then



                $$
                P(n;left| {;m} right.) = P(n) = {1 over N}
                $$



                Denoting by $A$ the event $n=1$, and by $B= neg ,A$ the complementary event $1 < n le N$, we have
                $$
                left{ matrix{
                P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over {1^{,m} }}P(A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N} hfill cr
                P(b wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = 0 hfill cr
                P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
                = {1 over N}sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}} = {1 over N}left( {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} right) hfill cr
                P(b wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {left( {1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}} right)P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
                = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr
                P(a;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} quad quad
                P(b;left| {;m} right.) = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr} right.
                $$

                where the sum is expressed through the Generalized Harmonic number.



                We can therefore conclude that
                $$
                eqalign{
                & P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }} cr
                & P(B;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}}
                = left( {{{H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }}} right) = 1 - P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) cr}
                $$

                i.e. that, upon having drawn $m$ black balls, we can say that the probability
                that the urn contains just one black ball is $1 / {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)}}$.



                For example we get for $m=1,cdots,12$ :
                $N=2$
                $$frac{2}{3},frac{ 4}{5},frac{ 8}{9},frac{ 16}{17},frac{ 32}{33},frac{ 64}{65},frac{ 128}{129},frac{ 256}{257},frac{ 512}{513},
                frac{ 1024}{1025},frac{ 2048}{2049},frac{ 4096}{4097}$$

                $N=3$
                $$frac{6}{11},frac{ 36}{49},frac{ 216}{251},frac{ 1296}{1393},0.96584, 0.98329, 0.9918, 0.99596, 0.998, 0.99901, 0.99951, 0.99975$$
                (rounded to 5 digits)



                It looks that $m=10$ is the No. of "all-black" draws sufficient to state at $99.9%$ that the urn contains just one ball,
                for whichever $N ge 2$.



                In fact
                $$
                left{ matrix{
                {1 over {H_{,N - 1} ^{left( m right)} }} > {1 over {H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} }} hfill cr
                mathop {lim }limits_{N, to ,infty } H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} = zeta (m)quad quad hfill cr
                {1 over {zeta (10)}} = {{93555} over {pi ^{,10} }} > 0.999 hfill cr} right.
                $$






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                So there are totally $n$ balls, $1$ black and $n-1$ white, that you draw randomly with replacement.



                You draw a predetermined number $m$ of balls and for the result you distinguish just two outcomes:

                - a) all $m$ balls are black;

                - b) at least one of the balls is white, i.e. $b = neg ,a$;



                Clearly for outcome b) it doesn't matter whether you stop at the first white ball, or continue with all the $m$ draws.



                Assume that $n$ and $m$ are given, then
                $$
                P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {1 over {n^{,m} }}quad P(b;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = 1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}
                $$

                that is
                $$
                P(a;left| {;n wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge n;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(n;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {n^{,m} }}
                $$



                $n$ is not known, and we are going to estimate it from the draws (at least this is my understanding).

                What is known is that $n in {1,2,cdots,N}$, $N$ is supposedly known and
                we may assume that $n$ is uniformly distributed in that range.



                Since $m$ and $n$ are independent, then



                $$
                P(n;left| {;m} right.) = P(n) = {1 over N}
                $$



                Denoting by $A$ the event $n=1$, and by $B= neg ,A$ the complementary event $1 < n le N$, we have
                $$
                left{ matrix{
                P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over {1^{,m} }}P(A;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N} hfill cr
                P(b wedge A;left| {;m} right.) = 0 hfill cr
                P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
                = {1 over N}sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {{1 over {n^{,m} }}} = {1 over N}left( {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} right) hfill cr
                P(b wedge B;left| {;m} right.) = sumlimits_{2, le ,n, le ,N} {left( {1 - {1 over {n^{,m} }}} right)P(n;left| {;m} right.)}
                = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr
                P(a;left| {;m} right.) = {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} quad quad
                P(b;left| {;m} right.) = 1 - {1 over N}H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} hfill cr} right.
                $$

                where the sum is expressed through the Generalized Harmonic number.



                We can therefore conclude that
                $$
                eqalign{
                & P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge A;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}} = {1 over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }} cr
                & P(B;left| {;a wedge m} right.) = {{P(a wedge B;left| {;m} right.)} over {P(a;left| {;m} right.)}}
                = left( {{{H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} - 1} over {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)} }}} right) = 1 - P(A;left| {;a wedge m} right.) cr}
                $$

                i.e. that, upon having drawn $m$ black balls, we can say that the probability
                that the urn contains just one black ball is $1 / {H_{,N}^{,left( m right)}}$.



                For example we get for $m=1,cdots,12$ :
                $N=2$
                $$frac{2}{3},frac{ 4}{5},frac{ 8}{9},frac{ 16}{17},frac{ 32}{33},frac{ 64}{65},frac{ 128}{129},frac{ 256}{257},frac{ 512}{513},
                frac{ 1024}{1025},frac{ 2048}{2049},frac{ 4096}{4097}$$

                $N=3$
                $$frac{6}{11},frac{ 36}{49},frac{ 216}{251},frac{ 1296}{1393},0.96584, 0.98329, 0.9918, 0.99596, 0.998, 0.99901, 0.99951, 0.99975$$
                (rounded to 5 digits)



                It looks that $m=10$ is the No. of "all-black" draws sufficient to state at $99.9%$ that the urn contains just one ball,
                for whichever $N ge 2$.



                In fact
                $$
                left{ matrix{
                {1 over {H_{,N - 1} ^{left( m right)} }} > {1 over {H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} }} hfill cr
                mathop {lim }limits_{N, to ,infty } H_{,N} ^{left( m right)} = zeta (m)quad quad hfill cr
                {1 over {zeta (10)}} = {{93555} over {pi ^{,10} }} > 0.999 hfill cr} right.
                $$







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Dec 7 '18 at 23:19









                G CabG Cab

                18.4k31237




                18.4k31237






























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded




















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3023844%2fminimal-number-of-ball-draws-in-order-to-get-0-999-probability%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Mont Emei

                    Province de Neuquén

                    Journaliste