defining functor $Ord$












1












$begingroup$


Define a category $mathcal{C}$ where the objects are finite sets and arrows are bijections between sets.



I want to define the functor "order" (Ord).



I have defined it as follows:



For a set $X in mathcal{C}$, $Ord(X)={sigma(x_1)<...<sigma(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}}$. ($sigma$ is a permutation).



For a bijection $f:Xlongrightarrow Y$, $Ord(f):Ord(X) longrightarrow Ord(Y): {sigma(x_1)<...<sigma(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}} mapsto {(fcirc sigma circ f^{-1})(x_1)<...<(fcirc sigma circ f^{-1})(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}}$.



I have defined before the functor $Perm: mathcal{C} longrightarrow Sets$.



For a set $X in mathcal{C}$, $Perm(X)={sigma: X longrightarrow X | text{$sigma$ is a bijection}}$.



For a bijection $f:Xlongrightarrow Y$, $Perm(f): Perm(X) longrightarrow Perm(Y): sigma mapsto fcirc sigma circ f^{-1}$.



And I have checked that $Perm$ is a functor. I have also checked that $Ord$ satisfies the conditions, but I do not know if its definition is a proper definition.



Any feedback?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What does $sigma(x_1)<ldots<sigma(x_n)$ mean in your notation?
    $endgroup$
    – Ilya Vlasov
    Jan 2 at 13:10












  • $begingroup$
    I was thinking that $sigma$ has nothing to do here. Edited. @IlyaVlasov
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:36










  • $begingroup$
    And it means the set of orders on $X$. That we identify as $x_1 <...<x_n$ where $n$ is the number of elements in $X$.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:39










  • $begingroup$
    May be it was correct. I do not know. But anyway, the inequalities means what I have written above. @IlyaVlasov
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:40










  • $begingroup$
    $Ord(X)$ has to be the set of (total) orders on $X$. And such order can be identified with the sequence of inequalities $x_1<...<x_n$.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:43
















1












$begingroup$


Define a category $mathcal{C}$ where the objects are finite sets and arrows are bijections between sets.



I want to define the functor "order" (Ord).



I have defined it as follows:



For a set $X in mathcal{C}$, $Ord(X)={sigma(x_1)<...<sigma(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}}$. ($sigma$ is a permutation).



For a bijection $f:Xlongrightarrow Y$, $Ord(f):Ord(X) longrightarrow Ord(Y): {sigma(x_1)<...<sigma(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}} mapsto {(fcirc sigma circ f^{-1})(x_1)<...<(fcirc sigma circ f^{-1})(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}}$.



I have defined before the functor $Perm: mathcal{C} longrightarrow Sets$.



For a set $X in mathcal{C}$, $Perm(X)={sigma: X longrightarrow X | text{$sigma$ is a bijection}}$.



For a bijection $f:Xlongrightarrow Y$, $Perm(f): Perm(X) longrightarrow Perm(Y): sigma mapsto fcirc sigma circ f^{-1}$.



And I have checked that $Perm$ is a functor. I have also checked that $Ord$ satisfies the conditions, but I do not know if its definition is a proper definition.



Any feedback?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What does $sigma(x_1)<ldots<sigma(x_n)$ mean in your notation?
    $endgroup$
    – Ilya Vlasov
    Jan 2 at 13:10












  • $begingroup$
    I was thinking that $sigma$ has nothing to do here. Edited. @IlyaVlasov
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:36










  • $begingroup$
    And it means the set of orders on $X$. That we identify as $x_1 <...<x_n$ where $n$ is the number of elements in $X$.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:39










  • $begingroup$
    May be it was correct. I do not know. But anyway, the inequalities means what I have written above. @IlyaVlasov
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:40










  • $begingroup$
    $Ord(X)$ has to be the set of (total) orders on $X$. And such order can be identified with the sequence of inequalities $x_1<...<x_n$.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:43














1












1








1





$begingroup$


Define a category $mathcal{C}$ where the objects are finite sets and arrows are bijections between sets.



I want to define the functor "order" (Ord).



I have defined it as follows:



For a set $X in mathcal{C}$, $Ord(X)={sigma(x_1)<...<sigma(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}}$. ($sigma$ is a permutation).



For a bijection $f:Xlongrightarrow Y$, $Ord(f):Ord(X) longrightarrow Ord(Y): {sigma(x_1)<...<sigma(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}} mapsto {(fcirc sigma circ f^{-1})(x_1)<...<(fcirc sigma circ f^{-1})(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}}$.



I have defined before the functor $Perm: mathcal{C} longrightarrow Sets$.



For a set $X in mathcal{C}$, $Perm(X)={sigma: X longrightarrow X | text{$sigma$ is a bijection}}$.



For a bijection $f:Xlongrightarrow Y$, $Perm(f): Perm(X) longrightarrow Perm(Y): sigma mapsto fcirc sigma circ f^{-1}$.



And I have checked that $Perm$ is a functor. I have also checked that $Ord$ satisfies the conditions, but I do not know if its definition is a proper definition.



Any feedback?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Define a category $mathcal{C}$ where the objects are finite sets and arrows are bijections between sets.



I want to define the functor "order" (Ord).



I have defined it as follows:



For a set $X in mathcal{C}$, $Ord(X)={sigma(x_1)<...<sigma(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}}$. ($sigma$ is a permutation).



For a bijection $f:Xlongrightarrow Y$, $Ord(f):Ord(X) longrightarrow Ord(Y): {sigma(x_1)<...<sigma(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}} mapsto {(fcirc sigma circ f^{-1})(x_1)<...<(fcirc sigma circ f^{-1})(x_n) | sigma text{is a bijection}}$.



I have defined before the functor $Perm: mathcal{C} longrightarrow Sets$.



For a set $X in mathcal{C}$, $Perm(X)={sigma: X longrightarrow X | text{$sigma$ is a bijection}}$.



For a bijection $f:Xlongrightarrow Y$, $Perm(f): Perm(X) longrightarrow Perm(Y): sigma mapsto fcirc sigma circ f^{-1}$.



And I have checked that $Perm$ is a functor. I have also checked that $Ord$ satisfies the conditions, but I do not know if its definition is a proper definition.



Any feedback?







abstract-algebra commutative-algebra category-theory






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 2 at 13:47







idriskameni

















asked Jan 2 at 11:39









idriskameniidriskameni

755321




755321












  • $begingroup$
    What does $sigma(x_1)<ldots<sigma(x_n)$ mean in your notation?
    $endgroup$
    – Ilya Vlasov
    Jan 2 at 13:10












  • $begingroup$
    I was thinking that $sigma$ has nothing to do here. Edited. @IlyaVlasov
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:36










  • $begingroup$
    And it means the set of orders on $X$. That we identify as $x_1 <...<x_n$ where $n$ is the number of elements in $X$.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:39










  • $begingroup$
    May be it was correct. I do not know. But anyway, the inequalities means what I have written above. @IlyaVlasov
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:40










  • $begingroup$
    $Ord(X)$ has to be the set of (total) orders on $X$. And such order can be identified with the sequence of inequalities $x_1<...<x_n$.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:43


















  • $begingroup$
    What does $sigma(x_1)<ldots<sigma(x_n)$ mean in your notation?
    $endgroup$
    – Ilya Vlasov
    Jan 2 at 13:10












  • $begingroup$
    I was thinking that $sigma$ has nothing to do here. Edited. @IlyaVlasov
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:36










  • $begingroup$
    And it means the set of orders on $X$. That we identify as $x_1 <...<x_n$ where $n$ is the number of elements in $X$.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:39










  • $begingroup$
    May be it was correct. I do not know. But anyway, the inequalities means what I have written above. @IlyaVlasov
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:40










  • $begingroup$
    $Ord(X)$ has to be the set of (total) orders on $X$. And such order can be identified with the sequence of inequalities $x_1<...<x_n$.
    $endgroup$
    – idriskameni
    Jan 2 at 13:43
















$begingroup$
What does $sigma(x_1)<ldots<sigma(x_n)$ mean in your notation?
$endgroup$
– Ilya Vlasov
Jan 2 at 13:10






$begingroup$
What does $sigma(x_1)<ldots<sigma(x_n)$ mean in your notation?
$endgroup$
– Ilya Vlasov
Jan 2 at 13:10














$begingroup$
I was thinking that $sigma$ has nothing to do here. Edited. @IlyaVlasov
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Jan 2 at 13:36




$begingroup$
I was thinking that $sigma$ has nothing to do here. Edited. @IlyaVlasov
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Jan 2 at 13:36












$begingroup$
And it means the set of orders on $X$. That we identify as $x_1 <...<x_n$ where $n$ is the number of elements in $X$.
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Jan 2 at 13:39




$begingroup$
And it means the set of orders on $X$. That we identify as $x_1 <...<x_n$ where $n$ is the number of elements in $X$.
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Jan 2 at 13:39












$begingroup$
May be it was correct. I do not know. But anyway, the inequalities means what I have written above. @IlyaVlasov
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Jan 2 at 13:40




$begingroup$
May be it was correct. I do not know. But anyway, the inequalities means what I have written above. @IlyaVlasov
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Jan 2 at 13:40












$begingroup$
$Ord(X)$ has to be the set of (total) orders on $X$. And such order can be identified with the sequence of inequalities $x_1<...<x_n$.
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Jan 2 at 13:43




$begingroup$
$Ord(X)$ has to be the set of (total) orders on $X$. And such order can be identified with the sequence of inequalities $x_1<...<x_n$.
$endgroup$
– idriskameni
Jan 2 at 13:43










1 Answer
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$begingroup$

From the comments, it is clear that you want $newcommandOrd{operatorname{Ord}}Ord$ to take a (finite) set $X$ (though there's no reason to restrict to finite sets) to the collection of all total orders on $X$.



To define $Ord$, it is probably best to just use words rather than notation. The notation you've used doesn't really make sense, at least it didn't make sense to me, nor I think to user 170039 (based on the comment).



Thus to define $Ord$ on objects, I would just write.



$Ord(X)$ is the collection of all total orders on $X$ (which as a collection of relations on $X$ is naturally identified with a subset of $mathcal{P}(Xtimes X)$). I would probably ordinarily omit the parenthetical, I've just included it to be clear about what the set theoretic definition of a total order is (i.e. that it is a special kind of relation).



Then to define $Ord(f):Ord(X)to Ord(Y)$ when $f:Xto Y$ is a bijection, I would say, let $<$ be a total order on $X$, then define $<_f$ by $y_1<_fy_2$ if and only if $f^{-1}(y_1)<f^{-1}(y_2)$. You can check that this definition makes $<_f$ a total order on $Y$, and that it is functorial.



Side note



If I were defining $Ord$, I would broaden the category of definition to all sets with morphisms all injections, in which case $Ord$ becomes a contravariant functor.



The definition of $Ord(X)$ remains the same, but now we define $Ord(iota)$, where $iota : Ahookrightarrow B$ is an injection as the map that takes a total order on $B$, $<$ and restricts it to $A$, so $<mapsto <_{|_A}$. Formally,
we define $a_1 <_{|_A} a_2$ if and only if $iota(a_1) < iota(a_2)$.



Again you can check that this is well defined and functorial.



Edit:



I suspect you are working on a problem, like the one here where you try to show that $operatorname{Perm}$ and $Ord$ are not naturally isomorphic. It's not very clear from your question, but it would explain why you're bringing up the functor $operatorname{Perm}$.



In which case, you should still use the definition of $Ord$ I gave above, but note that for finite sets with bijections, $Ord(X)$ is naturally isomorphic to $operatorname{Hom}(X,n)$, where $n$ is the finite ordinal with the same cardinality as $X$ (Note that it is important that the Homs are bijections for this to work.).






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    $begingroup$

    From the comments, it is clear that you want $newcommandOrd{operatorname{Ord}}Ord$ to take a (finite) set $X$ (though there's no reason to restrict to finite sets) to the collection of all total orders on $X$.



    To define $Ord$, it is probably best to just use words rather than notation. The notation you've used doesn't really make sense, at least it didn't make sense to me, nor I think to user 170039 (based on the comment).



    Thus to define $Ord$ on objects, I would just write.



    $Ord(X)$ is the collection of all total orders on $X$ (which as a collection of relations on $X$ is naturally identified with a subset of $mathcal{P}(Xtimes X)$). I would probably ordinarily omit the parenthetical, I've just included it to be clear about what the set theoretic definition of a total order is (i.e. that it is a special kind of relation).



    Then to define $Ord(f):Ord(X)to Ord(Y)$ when $f:Xto Y$ is a bijection, I would say, let $<$ be a total order on $X$, then define $<_f$ by $y_1<_fy_2$ if and only if $f^{-1}(y_1)<f^{-1}(y_2)$. You can check that this definition makes $<_f$ a total order on $Y$, and that it is functorial.



    Side note



    If I were defining $Ord$, I would broaden the category of definition to all sets with morphisms all injections, in which case $Ord$ becomes a contravariant functor.



    The definition of $Ord(X)$ remains the same, but now we define $Ord(iota)$, where $iota : Ahookrightarrow B$ is an injection as the map that takes a total order on $B$, $<$ and restricts it to $A$, so $<mapsto <_{|_A}$. Formally,
    we define $a_1 <_{|_A} a_2$ if and only if $iota(a_1) < iota(a_2)$.



    Again you can check that this is well defined and functorial.



    Edit:



    I suspect you are working on a problem, like the one here where you try to show that $operatorname{Perm}$ and $Ord$ are not naturally isomorphic. It's not very clear from your question, but it would explain why you're bringing up the functor $operatorname{Perm}$.



    In which case, you should still use the definition of $Ord$ I gave above, but note that for finite sets with bijections, $Ord(X)$ is naturally isomorphic to $operatorname{Hom}(X,n)$, where $n$ is the finite ordinal with the same cardinality as $X$ (Note that it is important that the Homs are bijections for this to work.).






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      2












      $begingroup$

      From the comments, it is clear that you want $newcommandOrd{operatorname{Ord}}Ord$ to take a (finite) set $X$ (though there's no reason to restrict to finite sets) to the collection of all total orders on $X$.



      To define $Ord$, it is probably best to just use words rather than notation. The notation you've used doesn't really make sense, at least it didn't make sense to me, nor I think to user 170039 (based on the comment).



      Thus to define $Ord$ on objects, I would just write.



      $Ord(X)$ is the collection of all total orders on $X$ (which as a collection of relations on $X$ is naturally identified with a subset of $mathcal{P}(Xtimes X)$). I would probably ordinarily omit the parenthetical, I've just included it to be clear about what the set theoretic definition of a total order is (i.e. that it is a special kind of relation).



      Then to define $Ord(f):Ord(X)to Ord(Y)$ when $f:Xto Y$ is a bijection, I would say, let $<$ be a total order on $X$, then define $<_f$ by $y_1<_fy_2$ if and only if $f^{-1}(y_1)<f^{-1}(y_2)$. You can check that this definition makes $<_f$ a total order on $Y$, and that it is functorial.



      Side note



      If I were defining $Ord$, I would broaden the category of definition to all sets with morphisms all injections, in which case $Ord$ becomes a contravariant functor.



      The definition of $Ord(X)$ remains the same, but now we define $Ord(iota)$, where $iota : Ahookrightarrow B$ is an injection as the map that takes a total order on $B$, $<$ and restricts it to $A$, so $<mapsto <_{|_A}$. Formally,
      we define $a_1 <_{|_A} a_2$ if and only if $iota(a_1) < iota(a_2)$.



      Again you can check that this is well defined and functorial.



      Edit:



      I suspect you are working on a problem, like the one here where you try to show that $operatorname{Perm}$ and $Ord$ are not naturally isomorphic. It's not very clear from your question, but it would explain why you're bringing up the functor $operatorname{Perm}$.



      In which case, you should still use the definition of $Ord$ I gave above, but note that for finite sets with bijections, $Ord(X)$ is naturally isomorphic to $operatorname{Hom}(X,n)$, where $n$ is the finite ordinal with the same cardinality as $X$ (Note that it is important that the Homs are bijections for this to work.).






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        From the comments, it is clear that you want $newcommandOrd{operatorname{Ord}}Ord$ to take a (finite) set $X$ (though there's no reason to restrict to finite sets) to the collection of all total orders on $X$.



        To define $Ord$, it is probably best to just use words rather than notation. The notation you've used doesn't really make sense, at least it didn't make sense to me, nor I think to user 170039 (based on the comment).



        Thus to define $Ord$ on objects, I would just write.



        $Ord(X)$ is the collection of all total orders on $X$ (which as a collection of relations on $X$ is naturally identified with a subset of $mathcal{P}(Xtimes X)$). I would probably ordinarily omit the parenthetical, I've just included it to be clear about what the set theoretic definition of a total order is (i.e. that it is a special kind of relation).



        Then to define $Ord(f):Ord(X)to Ord(Y)$ when $f:Xto Y$ is a bijection, I would say, let $<$ be a total order on $X$, then define $<_f$ by $y_1<_fy_2$ if and only if $f^{-1}(y_1)<f^{-1}(y_2)$. You can check that this definition makes $<_f$ a total order on $Y$, and that it is functorial.



        Side note



        If I were defining $Ord$, I would broaden the category of definition to all sets with morphisms all injections, in which case $Ord$ becomes a contravariant functor.



        The definition of $Ord(X)$ remains the same, but now we define $Ord(iota)$, where $iota : Ahookrightarrow B$ is an injection as the map that takes a total order on $B$, $<$ and restricts it to $A$, so $<mapsto <_{|_A}$. Formally,
        we define $a_1 <_{|_A} a_2$ if and only if $iota(a_1) < iota(a_2)$.



        Again you can check that this is well defined and functorial.



        Edit:



        I suspect you are working on a problem, like the one here where you try to show that $operatorname{Perm}$ and $Ord$ are not naturally isomorphic. It's not very clear from your question, but it would explain why you're bringing up the functor $operatorname{Perm}$.



        In which case, you should still use the definition of $Ord$ I gave above, but note that for finite sets with bijections, $Ord(X)$ is naturally isomorphic to $operatorname{Hom}(X,n)$, where $n$ is the finite ordinal with the same cardinality as $X$ (Note that it is important that the Homs are bijections for this to work.).






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        From the comments, it is clear that you want $newcommandOrd{operatorname{Ord}}Ord$ to take a (finite) set $X$ (though there's no reason to restrict to finite sets) to the collection of all total orders on $X$.



        To define $Ord$, it is probably best to just use words rather than notation. The notation you've used doesn't really make sense, at least it didn't make sense to me, nor I think to user 170039 (based on the comment).



        Thus to define $Ord$ on objects, I would just write.



        $Ord(X)$ is the collection of all total orders on $X$ (which as a collection of relations on $X$ is naturally identified with a subset of $mathcal{P}(Xtimes X)$). I would probably ordinarily omit the parenthetical, I've just included it to be clear about what the set theoretic definition of a total order is (i.e. that it is a special kind of relation).



        Then to define $Ord(f):Ord(X)to Ord(Y)$ when $f:Xto Y$ is a bijection, I would say, let $<$ be a total order on $X$, then define $<_f$ by $y_1<_fy_2$ if and only if $f^{-1}(y_1)<f^{-1}(y_2)$. You can check that this definition makes $<_f$ a total order on $Y$, and that it is functorial.



        Side note



        If I were defining $Ord$, I would broaden the category of definition to all sets with morphisms all injections, in which case $Ord$ becomes a contravariant functor.



        The definition of $Ord(X)$ remains the same, but now we define $Ord(iota)$, where $iota : Ahookrightarrow B$ is an injection as the map that takes a total order on $B$, $<$ and restricts it to $A$, so $<mapsto <_{|_A}$. Formally,
        we define $a_1 <_{|_A} a_2$ if and only if $iota(a_1) < iota(a_2)$.



        Again you can check that this is well defined and functorial.



        Edit:



        I suspect you are working on a problem, like the one here where you try to show that $operatorname{Perm}$ and $Ord$ are not naturally isomorphic. It's not very clear from your question, but it would explain why you're bringing up the functor $operatorname{Perm}$.



        In which case, you should still use the definition of $Ord$ I gave above, but note that for finite sets with bijections, $Ord(X)$ is naturally isomorphic to $operatorname{Hom}(X,n)$, where $n$ is the finite ordinal with the same cardinality as $X$ (Note that it is important that the Homs are bijections for this to work.).







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Jan 3 at 2:32

























        answered Jan 2 at 16:23









        jgonjgon

        14.9k22042




        14.9k22042






























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