Finding the remainder of an exhausted $m!$











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For any prime $p$, let $n_p(m)$ denote the exponent of $p$ in the factorisation of $m!$, i.e. $m!=p^{n_p(m)}cdot k$ with $pnotmid k$.



I wonder if there is a general formula for $frac{m!}{p^{n_p(m)}}$ modulo $p$?



I could not prove but I believe that the frequencies of $1,2,...,p-1$ are equal.










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  • "frequencies" in what sense? across all higher factorials?
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 21:50










  • I simply meant when I take $m=50$ and $p=3,5$ or $7$, the number of occurrences of $1,2,...,p-1$ as remainders are almost equal.
    – Levent
    Jul 6 '16 at 21:54










  • You can't talk about a frequency when you only look at one value of $m$.
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:42










  • Sorry, what I mean is when I take $m=2$ up to $50$.
    – Levent
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:51















up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1












For any prime $p$, let $n_p(m)$ denote the exponent of $p$ in the factorisation of $m!$, i.e. $m!=p^{n_p(m)}cdot k$ with $pnotmid k$.



I wonder if there is a general formula for $frac{m!}{p^{n_p(m)}}$ modulo $p$?



I could not prove but I believe that the frequencies of $1,2,...,p-1$ are equal.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • "frequencies" in what sense? across all higher factorials?
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 21:50










  • I simply meant when I take $m=50$ and $p=3,5$ or $7$, the number of occurrences of $1,2,...,p-1$ as remainders are almost equal.
    – Levent
    Jul 6 '16 at 21:54










  • You can't talk about a frequency when you only look at one value of $m$.
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:42










  • Sorry, what I mean is when I take $m=2$ up to $50$.
    – Levent
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:51













up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1






1





For any prime $p$, let $n_p(m)$ denote the exponent of $p$ in the factorisation of $m!$, i.e. $m!=p^{n_p(m)}cdot k$ with $pnotmid k$.



I wonder if there is a general formula for $frac{m!}{p^{n_p(m)}}$ modulo $p$?



I could not prove but I believe that the frequencies of $1,2,...,p-1$ are equal.










share|cite|improve this question















For any prime $p$, let $n_p(m)$ denote the exponent of $p$ in the factorisation of $m!$, i.e. $m!=p^{n_p(m)}cdot k$ with $pnotmid k$.



I wonder if there is a general formula for $frac{m!}{p^{n_p(m)}}$ modulo $p$?



I could not prove but I believe that the frequencies of $1,2,...,p-1$ are equal.







modular-arithmetic factorial






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share|cite|improve this question













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share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 19 at 22:44

























asked Jul 6 '16 at 21:10









Levent

3,386825




3,386825












  • "frequencies" in what sense? across all higher factorials?
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 21:50










  • I simply meant when I take $m=50$ and $p=3,5$ or $7$, the number of occurrences of $1,2,...,p-1$ as remainders are almost equal.
    – Levent
    Jul 6 '16 at 21:54










  • You can't talk about a frequency when you only look at one value of $m$.
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:42










  • Sorry, what I mean is when I take $m=2$ up to $50$.
    – Levent
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:51


















  • "frequencies" in what sense? across all higher factorials?
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 21:50










  • I simply meant when I take $m=50$ and $p=3,5$ or $7$, the number of occurrences of $1,2,...,p-1$ as remainders are almost equal.
    – Levent
    Jul 6 '16 at 21:54










  • You can't talk about a frequency when you only look at one value of $m$.
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:42










  • Sorry, what I mean is when I take $m=2$ up to $50$.
    – Levent
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:51
















"frequencies" in what sense? across all higher factorials?
– Joffan
Jul 6 '16 at 21:50




"frequencies" in what sense? across all higher factorials?
– Joffan
Jul 6 '16 at 21:50












I simply meant when I take $m=50$ and $p=3,5$ or $7$, the number of occurrences of $1,2,...,p-1$ as remainders are almost equal.
– Levent
Jul 6 '16 at 21:54




I simply meant when I take $m=50$ and $p=3,5$ or $7$, the number of occurrences of $1,2,...,p-1$ as remainders are almost equal.
– Levent
Jul 6 '16 at 21:54












You can't talk about a frequency when you only look at one value of $m$.
– Joffan
Jul 6 '16 at 22:42




You can't talk about a frequency when you only look at one value of $m$.
– Joffan
Jul 6 '16 at 22:42












Sorry, what I mean is when I take $m=2$ up to $50$.
– Levent
Jul 6 '16 at 22:51




Sorry, what I mean is when I take $m=2$ up to $50$.
– Levent
Jul 6 '16 at 22:51










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
4
down vote













Does not seem to be that simple as we let things run high; I did primes 5, 7, 11. Seems reasonable to suggest 1, p-1 are the same and highest, after that not clear, although 5, 7 seem symmetric. I ran 11 pretty high, I guess if a+b = 11 then their counts are similar.



1 count 1330   2 count 1169   3 count 1169   4 count 1332 

1 count 2570 2 count 2220 3 count 2230 4 count 2210 5 count 2220 6 count 2550

1 count 121894 2 count 115087 3 count 99710 4 count 100842 5 count 113429
6 count 112909 7 count 99693 8 count 99050 9 count 114123 10 count 123263







int main()
{
int p = 11;
int count[p] ;
int fac = 1;
for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) count[i] = 0;
for(int i = 1; i <= 100000 * p; ++i)
{
int n = i;
while ( n % p == 0 ) n /= p;
n %= p;
fac *= n;
fac %= p;

count[fac] = 1 + count[fac];
cout << i << " " << fac << " count " << count[fac] << endl;

}
for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) cout << i << " count " << count[i] << " " ;
cout << endl << endl;




return 0 ;
}





share|cite|improve this answer

















  • 1




    I had similar results on those primes, but on 13, 17, 19 a result of "1" stayed high but the remaining values started to flatten out (testing to 30000)
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:38


















up vote
1
down vote













With $k$ as in the question, define $F(m)$ to be the residue of $k$ modulo $p$.



A formula



Let $m=a+bp$, where $0le ale p-1$. Then, modulo $p$, $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!(p-1)!^bF(b)$. By Wilson's Theorem this simplifies to $a!(-1)^bF(b)$.



So, in general, let $$m=a_0+a_1p+a_2p^2+...+a_{2n-1}p^{2n-1},0le a_ile p-1.$$
Then, for $A=a_1+a_3+...+a_{2n-1}$, $F(m)$ is congruent, modulo $p$, to
$$a_0!a_1!...a_{2n-1}!(-1)^A.$$



Frequencies



The formula shows that $F(m)$ is the product modulo $p$ $$F(a_0+a_1p) F(a_2+a_3p)...F(a_{2n-2}+a_{2n-1}p).$$
Therefore the frequencies for the $p^2$numbers $0!,1!,...,(p^2-1)!$ determine the frequencies for the $p^4$numbers up to $(p^4-1)!$ etc. etc.



For example, modulo 3 there are 4 1s and 5 2s from 0! to 8!



So up to 80! there are $4^2+5^2=41$ 1s and $2.4.5=40$ 2s.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • I don't see why $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!cdot (p-1)!^b F(b)$. Take, for example, $p=3, a=0,b=3$ so $m=9$. Then $k=1$ so $F(m)cong 1pmod 2$ but the formula you present gives $2$.
    – Levent
    Dec 9 '17 at 21:59


















up vote
0
down vote













Same about



$F(m,p) = F(m mod p , p) dot F(m div p , p) dot (-1)^{m div p} $



with the integer division.






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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    4
    down vote













    Does not seem to be that simple as we let things run high; I did primes 5, 7, 11. Seems reasonable to suggest 1, p-1 are the same and highest, after that not clear, although 5, 7 seem symmetric. I ran 11 pretty high, I guess if a+b = 11 then their counts are similar.



    1 count 1330   2 count 1169   3 count 1169   4 count 1332 

    1 count 2570 2 count 2220 3 count 2230 4 count 2210 5 count 2220 6 count 2550

    1 count 121894 2 count 115087 3 count 99710 4 count 100842 5 count 113429
    6 count 112909 7 count 99693 8 count 99050 9 count 114123 10 count 123263







    int main()
    {
    int p = 11;
    int count[p] ;
    int fac = 1;
    for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) count[i] = 0;
    for(int i = 1; i <= 100000 * p; ++i)
    {
    int n = i;
    while ( n % p == 0 ) n /= p;
    n %= p;
    fac *= n;
    fac %= p;

    count[fac] = 1 + count[fac];
    cout << i << " " << fac << " count " << count[fac] << endl;

    }
    for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) cout << i << " count " << count[i] << " " ;
    cout << endl << endl;




    return 0 ;
    }





    share|cite|improve this answer

















    • 1




      I had similar results on those primes, but on 13, 17, 19 a result of "1" stayed high but the remaining values started to flatten out (testing to 30000)
      – Joffan
      Jul 6 '16 at 22:38















    up vote
    4
    down vote













    Does not seem to be that simple as we let things run high; I did primes 5, 7, 11. Seems reasonable to suggest 1, p-1 are the same and highest, after that not clear, although 5, 7 seem symmetric. I ran 11 pretty high, I guess if a+b = 11 then their counts are similar.



    1 count 1330   2 count 1169   3 count 1169   4 count 1332 

    1 count 2570 2 count 2220 3 count 2230 4 count 2210 5 count 2220 6 count 2550

    1 count 121894 2 count 115087 3 count 99710 4 count 100842 5 count 113429
    6 count 112909 7 count 99693 8 count 99050 9 count 114123 10 count 123263







    int main()
    {
    int p = 11;
    int count[p] ;
    int fac = 1;
    for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) count[i] = 0;
    for(int i = 1; i <= 100000 * p; ++i)
    {
    int n = i;
    while ( n % p == 0 ) n /= p;
    n %= p;
    fac *= n;
    fac %= p;

    count[fac] = 1 + count[fac];
    cout << i << " " << fac << " count " << count[fac] << endl;

    }
    for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) cout << i << " count " << count[i] << " " ;
    cout << endl << endl;




    return 0 ;
    }





    share|cite|improve this answer

















    • 1




      I had similar results on those primes, but on 13, 17, 19 a result of "1" stayed high but the remaining values started to flatten out (testing to 30000)
      – Joffan
      Jul 6 '16 at 22:38













    up vote
    4
    down vote










    up vote
    4
    down vote









    Does not seem to be that simple as we let things run high; I did primes 5, 7, 11. Seems reasonable to suggest 1, p-1 are the same and highest, after that not clear, although 5, 7 seem symmetric. I ran 11 pretty high, I guess if a+b = 11 then their counts are similar.



    1 count 1330   2 count 1169   3 count 1169   4 count 1332 

    1 count 2570 2 count 2220 3 count 2230 4 count 2210 5 count 2220 6 count 2550

    1 count 121894 2 count 115087 3 count 99710 4 count 100842 5 count 113429
    6 count 112909 7 count 99693 8 count 99050 9 count 114123 10 count 123263







    int main()
    {
    int p = 11;
    int count[p] ;
    int fac = 1;
    for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) count[i] = 0;
    for(int i = 1; i <= 100000 * p; ++i)
    {
    int n = i;
    while ( n % p == 0 ) n /= p;
    n %= p;
    fac *= n;
    fac %= p;

    count[fac] = 1 + count[fac];
    cout << i << " " << fac << " count " << count[fac] << endl;

    }
    for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) cout << i << " count " << count[i] << " " ;
    cout << endl << endl;




    return 0 ;
    }





    share|cite|improve this answer












    Does not seem to be that simple as we let things run high; I did primes 5, 7, 11. Seems reasonable to suggest 1, p-1 are the same and highest, after that not clear, although 5, 7 seem symmetric. I ran 11 pretty high, I guess if a+b = 11 then their counts are similar.



    1 count 1330   2 count 1169   3 count 1169   4 count 1332 

    1 count 2570 2 count 2220 3 count 2230 4 count 2210 5 count 2220 6 count 2550

    1 count 121894 2 count 115087 3 count 99710 4 count 100842 5 count 113429
    6 count 112909 7 count 99693 8 count 99050 9 count 114123 10 count 123263







    int main()
    {
    int p = 11;
    int count[p] ;
    int fac = 1;
    for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) count[i] = 0;
    for(int i = 1; i <= 100000 * p; ++i)
    {
    int n = i;
    while ( n % p == 0 ) n /= p;
    n %= p;
    fac *= n;
    fac %= p;

    count[fac] = 1 + count[fac];
    cout << i << " " << fac << " count " << count[fac] << endl;

    }
    for(int i = 1; i < p; ++i) cout << i << " count " << count[i] << " " ;
    cout << endl << endl;




    return 0 ;
    }






    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Jul 6 '16 at 22:15









    Will Jagy

    101k598198




    101k598198








    • 1




      I had similar results on those primes, but on 13, 17, 19 a result of "1" stayed high but the remaining values started to flatten out (testing to 30000)
      – Joffan
      Jul 6 '16 at 22:38














    • 1




      I had similar results on those primes, but on 13, 17, 19 a result of "1" stayed high but the remaining values started to flatten out (testing to 30000)
      – Joffan
      Jul 6 '16 at 22:38








    1




    1




    I had similar results on those primes, but on 13, 17, 19 a result of "1" stayed high but the remaining values started to flatten out (testing to 30000)
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:38




    I had similar results on those primes, but on 13, 17, 19 a result of "1" stayed high but the remaining values started to flatten out (testing to 30000)
    – Joffan
    Jul 6 '16 at 22:38










    up vote
    1
    down vote













    With $k$ as in the question, define $F(m)$ to be the residue of $k$ modulo $p$.



    A formula



    Let $m=a+bp$, where $0le ale p-1$. Then, modulo $p$, $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!(p-1)!^bF(b)$. By Wilson's Theorem this simplifies to $a!(-1)^bF(b)$.



    So, in general, let $$m=a_0+a_1p+a_2p^2+...+a_{2n-1}p^{2n-1},0le a_ile p-1.$$
    Then, for $A=a_1+a_3+...+a_{2n-1}$, $F(m)$ is congruent, modulo $p$, to
    $$a_0!a_1!...a_{2n-1}!(-1)^A.$$



    Frequencies



    The formula shows that $F(m)$ is the product modulo $p$ $$F(a_0+a_1p) F(a_2+a_3p)...F(a_{2n-2}+a_{2n-1}p).$$
    Therefore the frequencies for the $p^2$numbers $0!,1!,...,(p^2-1)!$ determine the frequencies for the $p^4$numbers up to $(p^4-1)!$ etc. etc.



    For example, modulo 3 there are 4 1s and 5 2s from 0! to 8!



    So up to 80! there are $4^2+5^2=41$ 1s and $2.4.5=40$ 2s.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • I don't see why $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!cdot (p-1)!^b F(b)$. Take, for example, $p=3, a=0,b=3$ so $m=9$. Then $k=1$ so $F(m)cong 1pmod 2$ but the formula you present gives $2$.
      – Levent
      Dec 9 '17 at 21:59















    up vote
    1
    down vote













    With $k$ as in the question, define $F(m)$ to be the residue of $k$ modulo $p$.



    A formula



    Let $m=a+bp$, where $0le ale p-1$. Then, modulo $p$, $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!(p-1)!^bF(b)$. By Wilson's Theorem this simplifies to $a!(-1)^bF(b)$.



    So, in general, let $$m=a_0+a_1p+a_2p^2+...+a_{2n-1}p^{2n-1},0le a_ile p-1.$$
    Then, for $A=a_1+a_3+...+a_{2n-1}$, $F(m)$ is congruent, modulo $p$, to
    $$a_0!a_1!...a_{2n-1}!(-1)^A.$$



    Frequencies



    The formula shows that $F(m)$ is the product modulo $p$ $$F(a_0+a_1p) F(a_2+a_3p)...F(a_{2n-2}+a_{2n-1}p).$$
    Therefore the frequencies for the $p^2$numbers $0!,1!,...,(p^2-1)!$ determine the frequencies for the $p^4$numbers up to $(p^4-1)!$ etc. etc.



    For example, modulo 3 there are 4 1s and 5 2s from 0! to 8!



    So up to 80! there are $4^2+5^2=41$ 1s and $2.4.5=40$ 2s.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • I don't see why $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!cdot (p-1)!^b F(b)$. Take, for example, $p=3, a=0,b=3$ so $m=9$. Then $k=1$ so $F(m)cong 1pmod 2$ but the formula you present gives $2$.
      – Levent
      Dec 9 '17 at 21:59













    up vote
    1
    down vote










    up vote
    1
    down vote









    With $k$ as in the question, define $F(m)$ to be the residue of $k$ modulo $p$.



    A formula



    Let $m=a+bp$, where $0le ale p-1$. Then, modulo $p$, $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!(p-1)!^bF(b)$. By Wilson's Theorem this simplifies to $a!(-1)^bF(b)$.



    So, in general, let $$m=a_0+a_1p+a_2p^2+...+a_{2n-1}p^{2n-1},0le a_ile p-1.$$
    Then, for $A=a_1+a_3+...+a_{2n-1}$, $F(m)$ is congruent, modulo $p$, to
    $$a_0!a_1!...a_{2n-1}!(-1)^A.$$



    Frequencies



    The formula shows that $F(m)$ is the product modulo $p$ $$F(a_0+a_1p) F(a_2+a_3p)...F(a_{2n-2}+a_{2n-1}p).$$
    Therefore the frequencies for the $p^2$numbers $0!,1!,...,(p^2-1)!$ determine the frequencies for the $p^4$numbers up to $(p^4-1)!$ etc. etc.



    For example, modulo 3 there are 4 1s and 5 2s from 0! to 8!



    So up to 80! there are $4^2+5^2=41$ 1s and $2.4.5=40$ 2s.






    share|cite|improve this answer












    With $k$ as in the question, define $F(m)$ to be the residue of $k$ modulo $p$.



    A formula



    Let $m=a+bp$, where $0le ale p-1$. Then, modulo $p$, $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!(p-1)!^bF(b)$. By Wilson's Theorem this simplifies to $a!(-1)^bF(b)$.



    So, in general, let $$m=a_0+a_1p+a_2p^2+...+a_{2n-1}p^{2n-1},0le a_ile p-1.$$
    Then, for $A=a_1+a_3+...+a_{2n-1}$, $F(m)$ is congruent, modulo $p$, to
    $$a_0!a_1!...a_{2n-1}!(-1)^A.$$



    Frequencies



    The formula shows that $F(m)$ is the product modulo $p$ $$F(a_0+a_1p) F(a_2+a_3p)...F(a_{2n-2}+a_{2n-1}p).$$
    Therefore the frequencies for the $p^2$numbers $0!,1!,...,(p^2-1)!$ determine the frequencies for the $p^4$numbers up to $(p^4-1)!$ etc. etc.



    For example, modulo 3 there are 4 1s and 5 2s from 0! to 8!



    So up to 80! there are $4^2+5^2=41$ 1s and $2.4.5=40$ 2s.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Dec 7 '17 at 15:12









    S. Dolan

    1,205112




    1,205112












    • I don't see why $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!cdot (p-1)!^b F(b)$. Take, for example, $p=3, a=0,b=3$ so $m=9$. Then $k=1$ so $F(m)cong 1pmod 2$ but the formula you present gives $2$.
      – Levent
      Dec 9 '17 at 21:59


















    • I don't see why $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!cdot (p-1)!^b F(b)$. Take, for example, $p=3, a=0,b=3$ so $m=9$. Then $k=1$ so $F(m)cong 1pmod 2$ but the formula you present gives $2$.
      – Levent
      Dec 9 '17 at 21:59
















    I don't see why $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!cdot (p-1)!^b F(b)$. Take, for example, $p=3, a=0,b=3$ so $m=9$. Then $k=1$ so $F(m)cong 1pmod 2$ but the formula you present gives $2$.
    – Levent
    Dec 9 '17 at 21:59




    I don't see why $F(m)$ is congruent to $a!cdot (p-1)!^b F(b)$. Take, for example, $p=3, a=0,b=3$ so $m=9$. Then $k=1$ so $F(m)cong 1pmod 2$ but the formula you present gives $2$.
    – Levent
    Dec 9 '17 at 21:59










    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Same about



    $F(m,p) = F(m mod p , p) dot F(m div p , p) dot (-1)^{m div p} $



    with the integer division.






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      Same about



      $F(m,p) = F(m mod p , p) dot F(m div p , p) dot (-1)^{m div p} $



      with the integer division.






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        Same about



        $F(m,p) = F(m mod p , p) dot F(m div p , p) dot (-1)^{m div p} $



        with the integer division.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        Same about



        $F(m,p) = F(m mod p , p) dot F(m div p , p) dot (-1)^{m div p} $



        with the integer division.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Dec 10 '17 at 0:41









        kotomord

        1,455626




        1,455626






























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