Largest separated subset of a finite set
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I can see the idea behind the following proof but I cannot express it in a mathematically elegant way...any help? Thanks in advance!
Let X = {1, 2, 3, . . . , 2k}. Prove that the largest separated subset of X has
cardinality k.
(A set S of integers (that is S ⊆ Z) is separated if for all i ∈ S
we have (i + 1) is not in S).
elementary-set-theory
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0
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favorite
I can see the idea behind the following proof but I cannot express it in a mathematically elegant way...any help? Thanks in advance!
Let X = {1, 2, 3, . . . , 2k}. Prove that the largest separated subset of X has
cardinality k.
(A set S of integers (that is S ⊆ Z) is separated if for all i ∈ S
we have (i + 1) is not in S).
elementary-set-theory
1
See How to ask a good question. ... The question is clearly expressed (the formulae are also clearly readable even without MathJax formatting); but as it stands, it is at risk of being closed because it does not show any of the work that you have done on the problem. Can you put in words something of the the idea you've had for a proof, so that you may perhaps be helped to knock it into better shape?
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 20:41
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
I can see the idea behind the following proof but I cannot express it in a mathematically elegant way...any help? Thanks in advance!
Let X = {1, 2, 3, . . . , 2k}. Prove that the largest separated subset of X has
cardinality k.
(A set S of integers (that is S ⊆ Z) is separated if for all i ∈ S
we have (i + 1) is not in S).
elementary-set-theory
I can see the idea behind the following proof but I cannot express it in a mathematically elegant way...any help? Thanks in advance!
Let X = {1, 2, 3, . . . , 2k}. Prove that the largest separated subset of X has
cardinality k.
(A set S of integers (that is S ⊆ Z) is separated if for all i ∈ S
we have (i + 1) is not in S).
elementary-set-theory
elementary-set-theory
asked Nov 11 at 18:25
JBuck
313
313
1
See How to ask a good question. ... The question is clearly expressed (the formulae are also clearly readable even without MathJax formatting); but as it stands, it is at risk of being closed because it does not show any of the work that you have done on the problem. Can you put in words something of the the idea you've had for a proof, so that you may perhaps be helped to knock it into better shape?
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 20:41
add a comment |
1
See How to ask a good question. ... The question is clearly expressed (the formulae are also clearly readable even without MathJax formatting); but as it stands, it is at risk of being closed because it does not show any of the work that you have done on the problem. Can you put in words something of the the idea you've had for a proof, so that you may perhaps be helped to knock it into better shape?
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 20:41
1
1
See How to ask a good question. ... The question is clearly expressed (the formulae are also clearly readable even without MathJax formatting); but as it stands, it is at risk of being closed because it does not show any of the work that you have done on the problem. Can you put in words something of the the idea you've had for a proof, so that you may perhaps be helped to knock it into better shape?
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 20:41
See How to ask a good question. ... The question is clearly expressed (the formulae are also clearly readable even without MathJax formatting); but as it stands, it is at risk of being closed because it does not show any of the work that you have done on the problem. Can you put in words something of the the idea you've had for a proof, so that you may perhaps be helped to knock it into better shape?
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 20:41
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
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oldest
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0
down vote
There is no largest separated set.
{1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k} are two separated subsets.
Neither is the largest. They are both maximal.
If you add another number to either of them, the set is no longer separated.
Contrary to your comment, you included no following proof.
Assume A is a separated subset of X with at least k + 1 elements.
Order A by magintude.
The difference between one point and the next is >= 2.
There are k gaps between the k + 1 numbers.
Thus the distance from the least to the last number is >= 2k.
Therefore last - first >= 2k: last => first + 2k.
As the first number in A is >= 1, a contradiction ensues.
The word largest is ambiguous in context.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 22:12
Sorry for the ambiguity, the question was given to us in those exact words. I presume that by ''largest'', he means the separated subset with the greatest cardinality. I immediately saw that there are two sets satisfying this condition, namely {1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k}, as previously mentioned, but I didn't think that the existence of two such sets violated the concept of there being a ''largest'' one.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:33
As for my idea of the proof, I thought that, for the set to be separated, the distance between every two consecutive elements has to be equal to 2, and there are 2k/2=k gaps with size two in 2k natural numbers, therefore the largest cardinality possible for a separated subset is k.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:35
@JBuck I suggest incorporating a version of the text of your later comment into the body of the question. As for writing up the proof: how about introducing notation for the elements of $S$ arranged in increasing order? (Just a thought. I had a quite different idea for a proof in mind, but it would be distracting to post it while you're working on your own method.) By the way, I only happened to catch your comment. To be sure of catching someone's attention, e.g. when replying to a comment (I'm not sure when else), write "@" followed by the first letter of their name, then select from a list.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:29
@JBuck The ambiguity doesn't strike me as serious - I didn't even notice it until William gave the word a different interpretation!
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:36
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
The solution I had in mind is probably worth putting on record, because it avoids using the order structure of $X$.
Let $X^+ = X cup {2k + 1}$, so we have a function $sigma colon X to X^+$, $i mapsto i + 1$.
Because $sigma$ is injective, $|sigma(S)| = |S|$. We're given that $S cap sigma(S) = emptyset$, so $|S cup sigma(S)| = |S| + |sigma(S)|$. Therefore,
$$
2|S| = |S| + |sigma(S)| = |S cup sigma(S)| leqslant |X^+| = 2k + 1,
$$
whence $|S| leqslant k$. $square$
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
There is no largest separated set.
{1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k} are two separated subsets.
Neither is the largest. They are both maximal.
If you add another number to either of them, the set is no longer separated.
Contrary to your comment, you included no following proof.
Assume A is a separated subset of X with at least k + 1 elements.
Order A by magintude.
The difference between one point and the next is >= 2.
There are k gaps between the k + 1 numbers.
Thus the distance from the least to the last number is >= 2k.
Therefore last - first >= 2k: last => first + 2k.
As the first number in A is >= 1, a contradiction ensues.
The word largest is ambiguous in context.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 22:12
Sorry for the ambiguity, the question was given to us in those exact words. I presume that by ''largest'', he means the separated subset with the greatest cardinality. I immediately saw that there are two sets satisfying this condition, namely {1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k}, as previously mentioned, but I didn't think that the existence of two such sets violated the concept of there being a ''largest'' one.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:33
As for my idea of the proof, I thought that, for the set to be separated, the distance between every two consecutive elements has to be equal to 2, and there are 2k/2=k gaps with size two in 2k natural numbers, therefore the largest cardinality possible for a separated subset is k.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:35
@JBuck I suggest incorporating a version of the text of your later comment into the body of the question. As for writing up the proof: how about introducing notation for the elements of $S$ arranged in increasing order? (Just a thought. I had a quite different idea for a proof in mind, but it would be distracting to post it while you're working on your own method.) By the way, I only happened to catch your comment. To be sure of catching someone's attention, e.g. when replying to a comment (I'm not sure when else), write "@" followed by the first letter of their name, then select from a list.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:29
@JBuck The ambiguity doesn't strike me as serious - I didn't even notice it until William gave the word a different interpretation!
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:36
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
There is no largest separated set.
{1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k} are two separated subsets.
Neither is the largest. They are both maximal.
If you add another number to either of them, the set is no longer separated.
Contrary to your comment, you included no following proof.
Assume A is a separated subset of X with at least k + 1 elements.
Order A by magintude.
The difference between one point and the next is >= 2.
There are k gaps between the k + 1 numbers.
Thus the distance from the least to the last number is >= 2k.
Therefore last - first >= 2k: last => first + 2k.
As the first number in A is >= 1, a contradiction ensues.
The word largest is ambiguous in context.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 22:12
Sorry for the ambiguity, the question was given to us in those exact words. I presume that by ''largest'', he means the separated subset with the greatest cardinality. I immediately saw that there are two sets satisfying this condition, namely {1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k}, as previously mentioned, but I didn't think that the existence of two such sets violated the concept of there being a ''largest'' one.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:33
As for my idea of the proof, I thought that, for the set to be separated, the distance between every two consecutive elements has to be equal to 2, and there are 2k/2=k gaps with size two in 2k natural numbers, therefore the largest cardinality possible for a separated subset is k.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:35
@JBuck I suggest incorporating a version of the text of your later comment into the body of the question. As for writing up the proof: how about introducing notation for the elements of $S$ arranged in increasing order? (Just a thought. I had a quite different idea for a proof in mind, but it would be distracting to post it while you're working on your own method.) By the way, I only happened to catch your comment. To be sure of catching someone's attention, e.g. when replying to a comment (I'm not sure when else), write "@" followed by the first letter of their name, then select from a list.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:29
@JBuck The ambiguity doesn't strike me as serious - I didn't even notice it until William gave the word a different interpretation!
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:36
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
There is no largest separated set.
{1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k} are two separated subsets.
Neither is the largest. They are both maximal.
If you add another number to either of them, the set is no longer separated.
Contrary to your comment, you included no following proof.
Assume A is a separated subset of X with at least k + 1 elements.
Order A by magintude.
The difference between one point and the next is >= 2.
There are k gaps between the k + 1 numbers.
Thus the distance from the least to the last number is >= 2k.
Therefore last - first >= 2k: last => first + 2k.
As the first number in A is >= 1, a contradiction ensues.
There is no largest separated set.
{1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k} are two separated subsets.
Neither is the largest. They are both maximal.
If you add another number to either of them, the set is no longer separated.
Contrary to your comment, you included no following proof.
Assume A is a separated subset of X with at least k + 1 elements.
Order A by magintude.
The difference between one point and the next is >= 2.
There are k gaps between the k + 1 numbers.
Thus the distance from the least to the last number is >= 2k.
Therefore last - first >= 2k: last => first + 2k.
As the first number in A is >= 1, a contradiction ensues.
answered Nov 11 at 22:08
William Elliot
6,7652518
6,7652518
The word largest is ambiguous in context.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 22:12
Sorry for the ambiguity, the question was given to us in those exact words. I presume that by ''largest'', he means the separated subset with the greatest cardinality. I immediately saw that there are two sets satisfying this condition, namely {1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k}, as previously mentioned, but I didn't think that the existence of two such sets violated the concept of there being a ''largest'' one.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:33
As for my idea of the proof, I thought that, for the set to be separated, the distance between every two consecutive elements has to be equal to 2, and there are 2k/2=k gaps with size two in 2k natural numbers, therefore the largest cardinality possible for a separated subset is k.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:35
@JBuck I suggest incorporating a version of the text of your later comment into the body of the question. As for writing up the proof: how about introducing notation for the elements of $S$ arranged in increasing order? (Just a thought. I had a quite different idea for a proof in mind, but it would be distracting to post it while you're working on your own method.) By the way, I only happened to catch your comment. To be sure of catching someone's attention, e.g. when replying to a comment (I'm not sure when else), write "@" followed by the first letter of their name, then select from a list.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:29
@JBuck The ambiguity doesn't strike me as serious - I didn't even notice it until William gave the word a different interpretation!
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:36
|
show 3 more comments
The word largest is ambiguous in context.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 22:12
Sorry for the ambiguity, the question was given to us in those exact words. I presume that by ''largest'', he means the separated subset with the greatest cardinality. I immediately saw that there are two sets satisfying this condition, namely {1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k}, as previously mentioned, but I didn't think that the existence of two such sets violated the concept of there being a ''largest'' one.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:33
As for my idea of the proof, I thought that, for the set to be separated, the distance between every two consecutive elements has to be equal to 2, and there are 2k/2=k gaps with size two in 2k natural numbers, therefore the largest cardinality possible for a separated subset is k.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:35
@JBuck I suggest incorporating a version of the text of your later comment into the body of the question. As for writing up the proof: how about introducing notation for the elements of $S$ arranged in increasing order? (Just a thought. I had a quite different idea for a proof in mind, but it would be distracting to post it while you're working on your own method.) By the way, I only happened to catch your comment. To be sure of catching someone's attention, e.g. when replying to a comment (I'm not sure when else), write "@" followed by the first letter of their name, then select from a list.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:29
@JBuck The ambiguity doesn't strike me as serious - I didn't even notice it until William gave the word a different interpretation!
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:36
The word largest is ambiguous in context.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 22:12
The word largest is ambiguous in context.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 22:12
Sorry for the ambiguity, the question was given to us in those exact words. I presume that by ''largest'', he means the separated subset with the greatest cardinality. I immediately saw that there are two sets satisfying this condition, namely {1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k}, as previously mentioned, but I didn't think that the existence of two such sets violated the concept of there being a ''largest'' one.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:33
Sorry for the ambiguity, the question was given to us in those exact words. I presume that by ''largest'', he means the separated subset with the greatest cardinality. I immediately saw that there are two sets satisfying this condition, namely {1,3,.. 2k-1} and {2,4,.. 2k}, as previously mentioned, but I didn't think that the existence of two such sets violated the concept of there being a ''largest'' one.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:33
As for my idea of the proof, I thought that, for the set to be separated, the distance between every two consecutive elements has to be equal to 2, and there are 2k/2=k gaps with size two in 2k natural numbers, therefore the largest cardinality possible for a separated subset is k.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:35
As for my idea of the proof, I thought that, for the set to be separated, the distance between every two consecutive elements has to be equal to 2, and there are 2k/2=k gaps with size two in 2k natural numbers, therefore the largest cardinality possible for a separated subset is k.
– JBuck
Nov 12 at 20:35
@JBuck I suggest incorporating a version of the text of your later comment into the body of the question. As for writing up the proof: how about introducing notation for the elements of $S$ arranged in increasing order? (Just a thought. I had a quite different idea for a proof in mind, but it would be distracting to post it while you're working on your own method.) By the way, I only happened to catch your comment. To be sure of catching someone's attention, e.g. when replying to a comment (I'm not sure when else), write "@" followed by the first letter of their name, then select from a list.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:29
@JBuck I suggest incorporating a version of the text of your later comment into the body of the question. As for writing up the proof: how about introducing notation for the elements of $S$ arranged in increasing order? (Just a thought. I had a quite different idea for a proof in mind, but it would be distracting to post it while you're working on your own method.) By the way, I only happened to catch your comment. To be sure of catching someone's attention, e.g. when replying to a comment (I'm not sure when else), write "@" followed by the first letter of their name, then select from a list.
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:29
@JBuck The ambiguity doesn't strike me as serious - I didn't even notice it until William gave the word a different interpretation!
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:36
@JBuck The ambiguity doesn't strike me as serious - I didn't even notice it until William gave the word a different interpretation!
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 13 at 8:36
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
The solution I had in mind is probably worth putting on record, because it avoids using the order structure of $X$.
Let $X^+ = X cup {2k + 1}$, so we have a function $sigma colon X to X^+$, $i mapsto i + 1$.
Because $sigma$ is injective, $|sigma(S)| = |S|$. We're given that $S cap sigma(S) = emptyset$, so $|S cup sigma(S)| = |S| + |sigma(S)|$. Therefore,
$$
2|S| = |S| + |sigma(S)| = |S cup sigma(S)| leqslant |X^+| = 2k + 1,
$$
whence $|S| leqslant k$. $square$
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The solution I had in mind is probably worth putting on record, because it avoids using the order structure of $X$.
Let $X^+ = X cup {2k + 1}$, so we have a function $sigma colon X to X^+$, $i mapsto i + 1$.
Because $sigma$ is injective, $|sigma(S)| = |S|$. We're given that $S cap sigma(S) = emptyset$, so $|S cup sigma(S)| = |S| + |sigma(S)|$. Therefore,
$$
2|S| = |S| + |sigma(S)| = |S cup sigma(S)| leqslant |X^+| = 2k + 1,
$$
whence $|S| leqslant k$. $square$
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The solution I had in mind is probably worth putting on record, because it avoids using the order structure of $X$.
Let $X^+ = X cup {2k + 1}$, so we have a function $sigma colon X to X^+$, $i mapsto i + 1$.
Because $sigma$ is injective, $|sigma(S)| = |S|$. We're given that $S cap sigma(S) = emptyset$, so $|S cup sigma(S)| = |S| + |sigma(S)|$. Therefore,
$$
2|S| = |S| + |sigma(S)| = |S cup sigma(S)| leqslant |X^+| = 2k + 1,
$$
whence $|S| leqslant k$. $square$
The solution I had in mind is probably worth putting on record, because it avoids using the order structure of $X$.
Let $X^+ = X cup {2k + 1}$, so we have a function $sigma colon X to X^+$, $i mapsto i + 1$.
Because $sigma$ is injective, $|sigma(S)| = |S|$. We're given that $S cap sigma(S) = emptyset$, so $|S cup sigma(S)| = |S| + |sigma(S)|$. Therefore,
$$
2|S| = |S| + |sigma(S)| = |S cup sigma(S)| leqslant |X^+| = 2k + 1,
$$
whence $|S| leqslant k$. $square$
answered Nov 15 at 11:22
Calum Gilhooley
3,983529
3,983529
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
See How to ask a good question. ... The question is clearly expressed (the formulae are also clearly readable even without MathJax formatting); but as it stands, it is at risk of being closed because it does not show any of the work that you have done on the problem. Can you put in words something of the the idea you've had for a proof, so that you may perhaps be helped to knock it into better shape?
– Calum Gilhooley
Nov 11 at 20:41