Does a true polymorphed familiar retain the mechanical benefits of a familiar?
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?
Specifically,
- Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?
- Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
edited 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
asked 2 days ago
CaffeineAddiction
23017
New contributor
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?
Specifically,
- Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?
- Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
edited 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
asked 2 days ago
CaffeineAddiction
23017
New contributor
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
@Rubiksmoose looks good
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
– V2Blast
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?
Specifically,
- Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?
- Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
edited 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
asked 2 days ago
CaffeineAddiction
23017
New contributor
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
If I use find familiar as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, then have a high level wizard cast (concentration) true polymorph on said familiar to turn them into a homunculus, would the familiar still retain the mechanical benefits granted by the spell?
Specifically,
- Would the Homunculus be telepathically linked to my Rogue? (anywhere on the same plane of existence)?
- Would the familiar still "deliver a spell with a range of touch" (eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city)?
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
dnd-5e familiars polymorph
edited 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
asked 2 days ago
CaffeineAddiction
23017
New contributor
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
asked 2 days ago
CaffeineAddiction
23017
New contributor
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
edited 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
edited 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
44.2k6221337
asked 2 days ago
CaffeineAddiction
23017
New contributor
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
CaffeineAddiction
23017
asked 2 days ago
CaffeineAddiction
23017
23017
New contributor
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
@Rubiksmoose looks good
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
– V2Blast
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
2
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
@Rubiksmoose looks good
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
– V2Blast
2 days ago
2
2
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
@Rubiksmoose looks good
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@Rubiksmoose looks good
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
– V2Blast
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
– V2Blast
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
3
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
@V2Blast good point
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
3
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
@V2Blast good point
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
3
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
@V2Blast good point
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
up vote
7
down vote
accepted
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
Familiars retain the benefits of being a familiar even when true polymorphed
Nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. The benefits of find familiar such as telepathy and the ability to deliver touch spells are not statistics of the familiar (they aren't listed in their statblock) and thus aren't replaced by true polymorph.
Remember the general policy for two spells interacting as stated by Jeremy Crawford:
Spell A doesn't cancel spell B unless the text of spell A says it does.
Transforming into a homunculus will give you telepathy while on the same plane
The statblock for the homunculus says:
Telepathic Bond. While the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as its master, it can magically convey what it senses to its master, and the two can communicate telepathically.
While not canceling the effects of find familiar, in this case true polymorph would add to the familiar's abilities because it is changing the underlying creature's natural abilities. This is not changing anything about the find familiar spell's effects though only adding an ability to the familiar itself.
You cannot gain infinite range for casting spells through your familiar
As stated in the first section, nothing about true polymorph cancels the effects of the find familiar spell. Thus, you can still cast spells through your homunculus familiar because find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it.
Note that the range, 100 feet, has nothing to do with telepathy. It is a separate range listed in a separate part of the spell description. Thus, increasing the range at which you can communicate with the familiar telepathically will do nothing to increase the range at which they can deliver spells. Nothing about true polymorph or the statblock for a humunculus specifically states that they increase the range for familiars to deliver touch spells, so they do not.
Also, note that mage hand is not a touch spell so it cannot be delivered through a familiar regardless. (thanks @v2blast)
answered 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
answered 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
answered 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
44.2k6221337
44.2k6221337
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
3
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
@V2Blast good point
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
add a comment |
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
3
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
@V2Blast good point
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
Ok so casting spells through the it would still work ... I would just have to be in the 100 feet range. So still a good pick pocket minion, just not w/ inf range.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction correct!
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
3
3
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction: Note that mage hand isn't a touch range spell, though, and can't be delivered through your familiar.
– V2Blast
2 days ago
@V2Blast good point
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@V2Blast good point
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
add a comment |
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
CaffeineAddiction is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f136172%2fdoes-a-true-polymorphed-familiar-retain-the-mechanical-benefits-of-a-familiar%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
I made some edits to your question. Do they still represent what you are trying to ask?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
@Rubiksmoose looks good
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
Also what do you mean by "eg use mage hand to pick pockets in a different city"? Do you mean that the humunculus-familiar attempts to pick pockets with mage hand while being in a different city from the rogue?
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago
From my understanding, the familiar is just a conduit of the spell ... not the caster itself. Could I use this effect to cast mage hand while outside of the normal range presented by the familiar.
– CaffeineAddiction
2 days ago
@CaffeineAddiction: Reread the last paragraph of the find familiar spell description: "Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll."
– V2Blast
2 days ago