Fired for gross misconduct because I sent confidential information to personal mailbox - how do I get another...
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39
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I was dismissed for a breach of confidentiality. I was working on some client confidential information on my client issued laptop and I emailed this info to my personal mailbox as I wanted to continue doing work on my personal laptop; I couldn't take my work laptop away whilst on extended leave overseas. I work within the tech/analytics field. The employer has a policy against this and everyone working there has signed that they read the policy. I just wasn't thinking at the moment I sent the information.
There are no legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP.
With regards to getting a new job within the software engineering/analytics/data science field, I wouldn't lie on application form and in interviews if asked why I left my old job.
But how do I explain this to show I learnt from my mistake and get a new job ?
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
interviewing new-job applications references tech-industry
New contributor
|
show 22 more comments
up vote
39
down vote
favorite
I was dismissed for a breach of confidentiality. I was working on some client confidential information on my client issued laptop and I emailed this info to my personal mailbox as I wanted to continue doing work on my personal laptop; I couldn't take my work laptop away whilst on extended leave overseas. I work within the tech/analytics field. The employer has a policy against this and everyone working there has signed that they read the policy. I just wasn't thinking at the moment I sent the information.
There are no legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP.
With regards to getting a new job within the software engineering/analytics/data science field, I wouldn't lie on application form and in interviews if asked why I left my old job.
But how do I explain this to show I learnt from my mistake and get a new job ?
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
interviewing new-job applications references tech-industry
New contributor
3
No legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP. The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
– user10433947
12 hours ago
29
Ok, so a dumb mistake instead of actual malicious action.
– Borgh
12 hours ago
8
Thanks @gnat. The link you sent is asking if it is possible to be rehired into the same employer. I am asking more generally with regards to other employers. I highly doubt my ex employer would rehire me
– user10433947
12 hours ago
1
I feel that the question remains unclear about precisely what aspect of your conduct got you fired, and why. "Confidential information" could be anything from a million patients' health records to a couple of hundred lines of banal business application source code you'd written for a client of no real sensitivity or conceivable value to any attacker. You don't explain whether you were fired for putting that data on a personal laptop at all or for doing so via personal email. You also don't indicate whether you could reasonably realise that the information needed to be kept secure.
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
1
Possible duplicate of In a job interview, how do I explain why I was fired?
– Dukeling
5 hours ago
|
show 22 more comments
up vote
39
down vote
favorite
up vote
39
down vote
favorite
I was dismissed for a breach of confidentiality. I was working on some client confidential information on my client issued laptop and I emailed this info to my personal mailbox as I wanted to continue doing work on my personal laptop; I couldn't take my work laptop away whilst on extended leave overseas. I work within the tech/analytics field. The employer has a policy against this and everyone working there has signed that they read the policy. I just wasn't thinking at the moment I sent the information.
There are no legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP.
With regards to getting a new job within the software engineering/analytics/data science field, I wouldn't lie on application form and in interviews if asked why I left my old job.
But how do I explain this to show I learnt from my mistake and get a new job ?
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
interviewing new-job applications references tech-industry
New contributor
I was dismissed for a breach of confidentiality. I was working on some client confidential information on my client issued laptop and I emailed this info to my personal mailbox as I wanted to continue doing work on my personal laptop; I couldn't take my work laptop away whilst on extended leave overseas. I work within the tech/analytics field. The employer has a policy against this and everyone working there has signed that they read the policy. I just wasn't thinking at the moment I sent the information.
There are no legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP.
With regards to getting a new job within the software engineering/analytics/data science field, I wouldn't lie on application form and in interviews if asked why I left my old job.
But how do I explain this to show I learnt from my mistake and get a new job ?
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
interviewing new-job applications references tech-industry
interviewing new-job applications references tech-industry
New contributor
New contributor
edited 5 hours ago
dwizum
9,88932241
9,88932241
New contributor
asked 12 hours ago
user10433947
30126
30126
New contributor
New contributor
3
No legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP. The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
– user10433947
12 hours ago
29
Ok, so a dumb mistake instead of actual malicious action.
– Borgh
12 hours ago
8
Thanks @gnat. The link you sent is asking if it is possible to be rehired into the same employer. I am asking more generally with regards to other employers. I highly doubt my ex employer would rehire me
– user10433947
12 hours ago
1
I feel that the question remains unclear about precisely what aspect of your conduct got you fired, and why. "Confidential information" could be anything from a million patients' health records to a couple of hundred lines of banal business application source code you'd written for a client of no real sensitivity or conceivable value to any attacker. You don't explain whether you were fired for putting that data on a personal laptop at all or for doing so via personal email. You also don't indicate whether you could reasonably realise that the information needed to be kept secure.
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
1
Possible duplicate of In a job interview, how do I explain why I was fired?
– Dukeling
5 hours ago
|
show 22 more comments
3
No legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP. The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
– user10433947
12 hours ago
29
Ok, so a dumb mistake instead of actual malicious action.
– Borgh
12 hours ago
8
Thanks @gnat. The link you sent is asking if it is possible to be rehired into the same employer. I am asking more generally with regards to other employers. I highly doubt my ex employer would rehire me
– user10433947
12 hours ago
1
I feel that the question remains unclear about precisely what aspect of your conduct got you fired, and why. "Confidential information" could be anything from a million patients' health records to a couple of hundred lines of banal business application source code you'd written for a client of no real sensitivity or conceivable value to any attacker. You don't explain whether you were fired for putting that data on a personal laptop at all or for doing so via personal email. You also don't indicate whether you could reasonably realise that the information needed to be kept secure.
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
1
Possible duplicate of In a job interview, how do I explain why I was fired?
– Dukeling
5 hours ago
3
3
No legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP. The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
– user10433947
12 hours ago
No legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP. The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
– user10433947
12 hours ago
29
29
Ok, so a dumb mistake instead of actual malicious action.
– Borgh
12 hours ago
Ok, so a dumb mistake instead of actual malicious action.
– Borgh
12 hours ago
8
8
Thanks @gnat. The link you sent is asking if it is possible to be rehired into the same employer. I am asking more generally with regards to other employers. I highly doubt my ex employer would rehire me
– user10433947
12 hours ago
Thanks @gnat. The link you sent is asking if it is possible to be rehired into the same employer. I am asking more generally with regards to other employers. I highly doubt my ex employer would rehire me
– user10433947
12 hours ago
1
1
I feel that the question remains unclear about precisely what aspect of your conduct got you fired, and why. "Confidential information" could be anything from a million patients' health records to a couple of hundred lines of banal business application source code you'd written for a client of no real sensitivity or conceivable value to any attacker. You don't explain whether you were fired for putting that data on a personal laptop at all or for doing so via personal email. You also don't indicate whether you could reasonably realise that the information needed to be kept secure.
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
I feel that the question remains unclear about precisely what aspect of your conduct got you fired, and why. "Confidential information" could be anything from a million patients' health records to a couple of hundred lines of banal business application source code you'd written for a client of no real sensitivity or conceivable value to any attacker. You don't explain whether you were fired for putting that data on a personal laptop at all or for doing so via personal email. You also don't indicate whether you could reasonably realise that the information needed to be kept secure.
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
1
1
Possible duplicate of In a job interview, how do I explain why I was fired?
– Dukeling
5 hours ago
Possible duplicate of In a job interview, how do I explain why I was fired?
– Dukeling
5 hours ago
|
show 22 more comments
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
up vote
64
down vote
It's all about wording
I think your comment:
The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
Goes a long way to being the right way to describe this. You were wrapped up in a project and yes you messed up but no you didn't mean to. You've learned from this mistake and had no malicious intent.
You violated your contract so your previous employer had little choice but to let you go - your new employer will understand this but if you show them you've accepted responsibility for it and will make sure never to do that again then I think you've got a good chance of getting another position.
"You violated your contract" - wait, what? This sentence in your answer is literally the only mention of a contract anywhere on the page. What basis do you have to claim that the OP violated any contract, or indeed had any reason prior to getting fired to think that his employer cared what medium he used to transfer his work to his personal laptop?
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
4
He's right actually. I violated a clause in my contract regarding 'Confidentiality' . Different industries have different terms with regards to Condidentiality, expressed or implied.
– user10433947
6 hours ago
@MarkAmery You're right in that its an assumption but given my experience with similar roles the correct handling of confidential information it is almost always written into the employee's contract that they'll not do certain things with the data (like put it on their personal devices). The OP does say, in the comments,Yes... you can call it a brain fart or something similar . I mean I should have known as I have signed confidential agreements but I was too caught up with the work and didn't think
– Lio Elbammalf
4 hours ago
1
While I agree that this needs to be explained in the right way. The main problem is that 'copying data in a very insecure way to be able to bring those data overseas', as I see it, most likely cannot be explained in the right way.
– Bent
3 hours ago
1
@bent in my experience most companies view the data leaving their possession as the real concern, anything else is secondary. They must always assume the worst case anyway.
– Lio Elbammalf
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
41
down vote
There are many ways to say thing like this without lying.
never actually say the words Gross Misconduct. They sound far more serious than what happened.
"I made a dumb mistake and misjudged the sensitivity of some data" is both more accurate and less severe.
Don't say "I was escorted out by armed guards" where you can say "My manager was disappointed enough to let me go"
People have gotten jobs in their field after vastly more serious forkups, don't despair.
If asked specifially try to describe in detail what happened and what you learned from it, for example: ask if the new employer has clear guidelines on data handling.
Yes, some employer will bin you, others might give you a second chance.
You might not immediately get the same job you had before and might have to accept something more junior but be clear in your communications and you'll get there.
Good luck!
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Yes they would, so don't tell them that.
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
It's hard to answer this question without specifics, but it strikes me as very important to differentiate between an accident or mistake in the sense of "oops, I did that by unintentionally" versus misconduct, as in "this was against policy and I deliberately did it anyways" regardless of whether you knew about the policy or had a good reason to do it or not. What you did was misconduct. You didn't accidentally email the material to yourself, you did it on purpose. Regardless of what word you use when you disclose what happened, understanding that difference, owning up to it, and showing how you've changed as a result is your best hope of gaining future employment.
Passing it off as a mistake, or trying to portray ignorance (in the sense of saying "oh, I didn't realize it was wrong when I did it") is just going to make it sound like you don't bother understanding or following policies. An employee who doesn't know about a policy important enough to fire someone over is just a ticking time bomb to an employer. That's why employers ask employees to sign technology use policies, as it appears yours has - to ensure the employee is aware of policy.
Whether or not you knew about the policy upfront, you need to be ready to discuss steps you take to stay informed about policies and ensure you're following them. You need to be ready to show that you understand that you have responsibility to understand and comply with policy, and that you're willing to do that. That brings us to your questions,
But how do I explain this to show I learnt from my mistake and get a new job ?
First, you need to be able to frame what you did for yourself. Can you explain to us what you learned? How do you approach company policy in general? How to you ensure you're aware of it, and following it?
You certainly don't need to blurt out a 5 minute monologue unprompted, but you do want to be ready to answer these questions because they will come up if you disclose what happened as you intend to. We can't tell you the best way to answer, since the best way to answer is honestly and you're the only one who can give your honest answer.
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Some certainly will, especially those who are more security-conscious. You may want to target less security-sensitive industries or environments until you've worked up enough of a resume after this event to show that you're reliable.
+20 if I could.
– bob
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
This is mostly a matter of describing your motivation appropriately, and in this respect "At that time, I did not realize" does a better job of conveying that your basis of judgment has changed in the course of that experience than a mere "I did not realize" would. The latter looks more like something that could repeat under similar circumstances.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
What you did was a breach of data protection laws in most jurisdictions. Understand this, and approach the question from that angle.
You said it yourself that you were working on client confidential information, and sent it to your personal mailbox.
Businesses have a term for that kind of behaviour, and that is 'data leakage'. In sending that information to your own mailbox, you transmitted the data to a number of machines, any number of which could be intercepting the data for reading, and many do albeit for legit purposes of scanning for advertising relevant stuff or scanning viruses. If any of those connections were being intercepted by an unknown third party, however, you've just put your customer's data into their hands.
Acknowledge that your data security awareness was sorely lacking and that you have worked to fix this in your wording to your prospective employer
This includes understanding what you did wrong and explaining how you might have approached this in future (hint: ask boss, transfer via encrypted USB if necessary and allowed. NEVER by email unless explicitly given the go-ahead). Phrase it as a serious learning point, because you sure as hell aren't going to do it again after getting fired.
The US is a large jurisdiction, and generally have what I consider very little protection for private data. For most cases in the US, I'd expect it to be legal.
– David Thornley
4 hours ago
Data protection laws generally protect personal data. There's no indication that the data that the OP here emailed to themselves was personal data. Even if it were, transmitting some personal data by email does not of itself breach data protection laws in any jurisdiction; if it did, almost all email use would be illegal in those jurisdictions, since sending an email to any person's email address inherently transmits personal data (namely, the address itself!). As such, your first sentence is nonsense.
– Mark Amery
3 hours ago
add a comment |
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
64
down vote
It's all about wording
I think your comment:
The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
Goes a long way to being the right way to describe this. You were wrapped up in a project and yes you messed up but no you didn't mean to. You've learned from this mistake and had no malicious intent.
You violated your contract so your previous employer had little choice but to let you go - your new employer will understand this but if you show them you've accepted responsibility for it and will make sure never to do that again then I think you've got a good chance of getting another position.
"You violated your contract" - wait, what? This sentence in your answer is literally the only mention of a contract anywhere on the page. What basis do you have to claim that the OP violated any contract, or indeed had any reason prior to getting fired to think that his employer cared what medium he used to transfer his work to his personal laptop?
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
4
He's right actually. I violated a clause in my contract regarding 'Confidentiality' . Different industries have different terms with regards to Condidentiality, expressed or implied.
– user10433947
6 hours ago
@MarkAmery You're right in that its an assumption but given my experience with similar roles the correct handling of confidential information it is almost always written into the employee's contract that they'll not do certain things with the data (like put it on their personal devices). The OP does say, in the comments,Yes... you can call it a brain fart or something similar . I mean I should have known as I have signed confidential agreements but I was too caught up with the work and didn't think
– Lio Elbammalf
4 hours ago
1
While I agree that this needs to be explained in the right way. The main problem is that 'copying data in a very insecure way to be able to bring those data overseas', as I see it, most likely cannot be explained in the right way.
– Bent
3 hours ago
1
@bent in my experience most companies view the data leaving their possession as the real concern, anything else is secondary. They must always assume the worst case anyway.
– Lio Elbammalf
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
64
down vote
It's all about wording
I think your comment:
The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
Goes a long way to being the right way to describe this. You were wrapped up in a project and yes you messed up but no you didn't mean to. You've learned from this mistake and had no malicious intent.
You violated your contract so your previous employer had little choice but to let you go - your new employer will understand this but if you show them you've accepted responsibility for it and will make sure never to do that again then I think you've got a good chance of getting another position.
"You violated your contract" - wait, what? This sentence in your answer is literally the only mention of a contract anywhere on the page. What basis do you have to claim that the OP violated any contract, or indeed had any reason prior to getting fired to think that his employer cared what medium he used to transfer his work to his personal laptop?
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
4
He's right actually. I violated a clause in my contract regarding 'Confidentiality' . Different industries have different terms with regards to Condidentiality, expressed or implied.
– user10433947
6 hours ago
@MarkAmery You're right in that its an assumption but given my experience with similar roles the correct handling of confidential information it is almost always written into the employee's contract that they'll not do certain things with the data (like put it on their personal devices). The OP does say, in the comments,Yes... you can call it a brain fart or something similar . I mean I should have known as I have signed confidential agreements but I was too caught up with the work and didn't think
– Lio Elbammalf
4 hours ago
1
While I agree that this needs to be explained in the right way. The main problem is that 'copying data in a very insecure way to be able to bring those data overseas', as I see it, most likely cannot be explained in the right way.
– Bent
3 hours ago
1
@bent in my experience most companies view the data leaving their possession as the real concern, anything else is secondary. They must always assume the worst case anyway.
– Lio Elbammalf
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
64
down vote
up vote
64
down vote
It's all about wording
I think your comment:
The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
Goes a long way to being the right way to describe this. You were wrapped up in a project and yes you messed up but no you didn't mean to. You've learned from this mistake and had no malicious intent.
You violated your contract so your previous employer had little choice but to let you go - your new employer will understand this but if you show them you've accepted responsibility for it and will make sure never to do that again then I think you've got a good chance of getting another position.
It's all about wording
I think your comment:
The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
Goes a long way to being the right way to describe this. You were wrapped up in a project and yes you messed up but no you didn't mean to. You've learned from this mistake and had no malicious intent.
You violated your contract so your previous employer had little choice but to let you go - your new employer will understand this but if you show them you've accepted responsibility for it and will make sure never to do that again then I think you've got a good chance of getting another position.
edited 11 hours ago
RJFalconer
2,2292712
2,2292712
answered 11 hours ago
Lio Elbammalf
48915
48915
"You violated your contract" - wait, what? This sentence in your answer is literally the only mention of a contract anywhere on the page. What basis do you have to claim that the OP violated any contract, or indeed had any reason prior to getting fired to think that his employer cared what medium he used to transfer his work to his personal laptop?
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
4
He's right actually. I violated a clause in my contract regarding 'Confidentiality' . Different industries have different terms with regards to Condidentiality, expressed or implied.
– user10433947
6 hours ago
@MarkAmery You're right in that its an assumption but given my experience with similar roles the correct handling of confidential information it is almost always written into the employee's contract that they'll not do certain things with the data (like put it on their personal devices). The OP does say, in the comments,Yes... you can call it a brain fart or something similar . I mean I should have known as I have signed confidential agreements but I was too caught up with the work and didn't think
– Lio Elbammalf
4 hours ago
1
While I agree that this needs to be explained in the right way. The main problem is that 'copying data in a very insecure way to be able to bring those data overseas', as I see it, most likely cannot be explained in the right way.
– Bent
3 hours ago
1
@bent in my experience most companies view the data leaving their possession as the real concern, anything else is secondary. They must always assume the worst case anyway.
– Lio Elbammalf
2 hours ago
add a comment |
"You violated your contract" - wait, what? This sentence in your answer is literally the only mention of a contract anywhere on the page. What basis do you have to claim that the OP violated any contract, or indeed had any reason prior to getting fired to think that his employer cared what medium he used to transfer his work to his personal laptop?
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
4
He's right actually. I violated a clause in my contract regarding 'Confidentiality' . Different industries have different terms with regards to Condidentiality, expressed or implied.
– user10433947
6 hours ago
@MarkAmery You're right in that its an assumption but given my experience with similar roles the correct handling of confidential information it is almost always written into the employee's contract that they'll not do certain things with the data (like put it on their personal devices). The OP does say, in the comments,Yes... you can call it a brain fart or something similar . I mean I should have known as I have signed confidential agreements but I was too caught up with the work and didn't think
– Lio Elbammalf
4 hours ago
1
While I agree that this needs to be explained in the right way. The main problem is that 'copying data in a very insecure way to be able to bring those data overseas', as I see it, most likely cannot be explained in the right way.
– Bent
3 hours ago
1
@bent in my experience most companies view the data leaving their possession as the real concern, anything else is secondary. They must always assume the worst case anyway.
– Lio Elbammalf
2 hours ago
"You violated your contract" - wait, what? This sentence in your answer is literally the only mention of a contract anywhere on the page. What basis do you have to claim that the OP violated any contract, or indeed had any reason prior to getting fired to think that his employer cared what medium he used to transfer his work to his personal laptop?
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
"You violated your contract" - wait, what? This sentence in your answer is literally the only mention of a contract anywhere on the page. What basis do you have to claim that the OP violated any contract, or indeed had any reason prior to getting fired to think that his employer cared what medium he used to transfer his work to his personal laptop?
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
4
4
He's right actually. I violated a clause in my contract regarding 'Confidentiality' . Different industries have different terms with regards to Condidentiality, expressed or implied.
– user10433947
6 hours ago
He's right actually. I violated a clause in my contract regarding 'Confidentiality' . Different industries have different terms with regards to Condidentiality, expressed or implied.
– user10433947
6 hours ago
@MarkAmery You're right in that its an assumption but given my experience with similar roles the correct handling of confidential information it is almost always written into the employee's contract that they'll not do certain things with the data (like put it on their personal devices). The OP does say, in the comments,
Yes... you can call it a brain fart or something similar . I mean I should have known as I have signed confidential agreements but I was too caught up with the work and didn't think
– Lio Elbammalf
4 hours ago
@MarkAmery You're right in that its an assumption but given my experience with similar roles the correct handling of confidential information it is almost always written into the employee's contract that they'll not do certain things with the data (like put it on their personal devices). The OP does say, in the comments,
Yes... you can call it a brain fart or something similar . I mean I should have known as I have signed confidential agreements but I was too caught up with the work and didn't think
– Lio Elbammalf
4 hours ago
1
1
While I agree that this needs to be explained in the right way. The main problem is that 'copying data in a very insecure way to be able to bring those data overseas', as I see it, most likely cannot be explained in the right way.
– Bent
3 hours ago
While I agree that this needs to be explained in the right way. The main problem is that 'copying data in a very insecure way to be able to bring those data overseas', as I see it, most likely cannot be explained in the right way.
– Bent
3 hours ago
1
1
@bent in my experience most companies view the data leaving their possession as the real concern, anything else is secondary. They must always assume the worst case anyway.
– Lio Elbammalf
2 hours ago
@bent in my experience most companies view the data leaving their possession as the real concern, anything else is secondary. They must always assume the worst case anyway.
– Lio Elbammalf
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
41
down vote
There are many ways to say thing like this without lying.
never actually say the words Gross Misconduct. They sound far more serious than what happened.
"I made a dumb mistake and misjudged the sensitivity of some data" is both more accurate and less severe.
Don't say "I was escorted out by armed guards" where you can say "My manager was disappointed enough to let me go"
People have gotten jobs in their field after vastly more serious forkups, don't despair.
If asked specifially try to describe in detail what happened and what you learned from it, for example: ask if the new employer has clear guidelines on data handling.
Yes, some employer will bin you, others might give you a second chance.
You might not immediately get the same job you had before and might have to accept something more junior but be clear in your communications and you'll get there.
Good luck!
add a comment |
up vote
41
down vote
There are many ways to say thing like this without lying.
never actually say the words Gross Misconduct. They sound far more serious than what happened.
"I made a dumb mistake and misjudged the sensitivity of some data" is both more accurate and less severe.
Don't say "I was escorted out by armed guards" where you can say "My manager was disappointed enough to let me go"
People have gotten jobs in their field after vastly more serious forkups, don't despair.
If asked specifially try to describe in detail what happened and what you learned from it, for example: ask if the new employer has clear guidelines on data handling.
Yes, some employer will bin you, others might give you a second chance.
You might not immediately get the same job you had before and might have to accept something more junior but be clear in your communications and you'll get there.
Good luck!
add a comment |
up vote
41
down vote
up vote
41
down vote
There are many ways to say thing like this without lying.
never actually say the words Gross Misconduct. They sound far more serious than what happened.
"I made a dumb mistake and misjudged the sensitivity of some data" is both more accurate and less severe.
Don't say "I was escorted out by armed guards" where you can say "My manager was disappointed enough to let me go"
People have gotten jobs in their field after vastly more serious forkups, don't despair.
If asked specifially try to describe in detail what happened and what you learned from it, for example: ask if the new employer has clear guidelines on data handling.
Yes, some employer will bin you, others might give you a second chance.
You might not immediately get the same job you had before and might have to accept something more junior but be clear in your communications and you'll get there.
Good luck!
There are many ways to say thing like this without lying.
never actually say the words Gross Misconduct. They sound far more serious than what happened.
"I made a dumb mistake and misjudged the sensitivity of some data" is both more accurate and less severe.
Don't say "I was escorted out by armed guards" where you can say "My manager was disappointed enough to let me go"
People have gotten jobs in their field after vastly more serious forkups, don't despair.
If asked specifially try to describe in detail what happened and what you learned from it, for example: ask if the new employer has clear guidelines on data handling.
Yes, some employer will bin you, others might give you a second chance.
You might not immediately get the same job you had before and might have to accept something more junior but be clear in your communications and you'll get there.
Good luck!
answered 12 hours ago
Borgh
2,2041614
2,2041614
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Yes they would, so don't tell them that.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Yes they would, so don't tell them that.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Yes they would, so don't tell them that.
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Yes they would, so don't tell them that.
answered 6 hours ago
Kilisi
111k61247429
111k61247429
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
It's hard to answer this question without specifics, but it strikes me as very important to differentiate between an accident or mistake in the sense of "oops, I did that by unintentionally" versus misconduct, as in "this was against policy and I deliberately did it anyways" regardless of whether you knew about the policy or had a good reason to do it or not. What you did was misconduct. You didn't accidentally email the material to yourself, you did it on purpose. Regardless of what word you use when you disclose what happened, understanding that difference, owning up to it, and showing how you've changed as a result is your best hope of gaining future employment.
Passing it off as a mistake, or trying to portray ignorance (in the sense of saying "oh, I didn't realize it was wrong when I did it") is just going to make it sound like you don't bother understanding or following policies. An employee who doesn't know about a policy important enough to fire someone over is just a ticking time bomb to an employer. That's why employers ask employees to sign technology use policies, as it appears yours has - to ensure the employee is aware of policy.
Whether or not you knew about the policy upfront, you need to be ready to discuss steps you take to stay informed about policies and ensure you're following them. You need to be ready to show that you understand that you have responsibility to understand and comply with policy, and that you're willing to do that. That brings us to your questions,
But how do I explain this to show I learnt from my mistake and get a new job ?
First, you need to be able to frame what you did for yourself. Can you explain to us what you learned? How do you approach company policy in general? How to you ensure you're aware of it, and following it?
You certainly don't need to blurt out a 5 minute monologue unprompted, but you do want to be ready to answer these questions because they will come up if you disclose what happened as you intend to. We can't tell you the best way to answer, since the best way to answer is honestly and you're the only one who can give your honest answer.
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Some certainly will, especially those who are more security-conscious. You may want to target less security-sensitive industries or environments until you've worked up enough of a resume after this event to show that you're reliable.
+20 if I could.
– bob
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
It's hard to answer this question without specifics, but it strikes me as very important to differentiate between an accident or mistake in the sense of "oops, I did that by unintentionally" versus misconduct, as in "this was against policy and I deliberately did it anyways" regardless of whether you knew about the policy or had a good reason to do it or not. What you did was misconduct. You didn't accidentally email the material to yourself, you did it on purpose. Regardless of what word you use when you disclose what happened, understanding that difference, owning up to it, and showing how you've changed as a result is your best hope of gaining future employment.
Passing it off as a mistake, or trying to portray ignorance (in the sense of saying "oh, I didn't realize it was wrong when I did it") is just going to make it sound like you don't bother understanding or following policies. An employee who doesn't know about a policy important enough to fire someone over is just a ticking time bomb to an employer. That's why employers ask employees to sign technology use policies, as it appears yours has - to ensure the employee is aware of policy.
Whether or not you knew about the policy upfront, you need to be ready to discuss steps you take to stay informed about policies and ensure you're following them. You need to be ready to show that you understand that you have responsibility to understand and comply with policy, and that you're willing to do that. That brings us to your questions,
But how do I explain this to show I learnt from my mistake and get a new job ?
First, you need to be able to frame what you did for yourself. Can you explain to us what you learned? How do you approach company policy in general? How to you ensure you're aware of it, and following it?
You certainly don't need to blurt out a 5 minute monologue unprompted, but you do want to be ready to answer these questions because they will come up if you disclose what happened as you intend to. We can't tell you the best way to answer, since the best way to answer is honestly and you're the only one who can give your honest answer.
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Some certainly will, especially those who are more security-conscious. You may want to target less security-sensitive industries or environments until you've worked up enough of a resume after this event to show that you're reliable.
+20 if I could.
– bob
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
It's hard to answer this question without specifics, but it strikes me as very important to differentiate between an accident or mistake in the sense of "oops, I did that by unintentionally" versus misconduct, as in "this was against policy and I deliberately did it anyways" regardless of whether you knew about the policy or had a good reason to do it or not. What you did was misconduct. You didn't accidentally email the material to yourself, you did it on purpose. Regardless of what word you use when you disclose what happened, understanding that difference, owning up to it, and showing how you've changed as a result is your best hope of gaining future employment.
Passing it off as a mistake, or trying to portray ignorance (in the sense of saying "oh, I didn't realize it was wrong when I did it") is just going to make it sound like you don't bother understanding or following policies. An employee who doesn't know about a policy important enough to fire someone over is just a ticking time bomb to an employer. That's why employers ask employees to sign technology use policies, as it appears yours has - to ensure the employee is aware of policy.
Whether or not you knew about the policy upfront, you need to be ready to discuss steps you take to stay informed about policies and ensure you're following them. You need to be ready to show that you understand that you have responsibility to understand and comply with policy, and that you're willing to do that. That brings us to your questions,
But how do I explain this to show I learnt from my mistake and get a new job ?
First, you need to be able to frame what you did for yourself. Can you explain to us what you learned? How do you approach company policy in general? How to you ensure you're aware of it, and following it?
You certainly don't need to blurt out a 5 minute monologue unprompted, but you do want to be ready to answer these questions because they will come up if you disclose what happened as you intend to. We can't tell you the best way to answer, since the best way to answer is honestly and you're the only one who can give your honest answer.
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Some certainly will, especially those who are more security-conscious. You may want to target less security-sensitive industries or environments until you've worked up enough of a resume after this event to show that you're reliable.
It's hard to answer this question without specifics, but it strikes me as very important to differentiate between an accident or mistake in the sense of "oops, I did that by unintentionally" versus misconduct, as in "this was against policy and I deliberately did it anyways" regardless of whether you knew about the policy or had a good reason to do it or not. What you did was misconduct. You didn't accidentally email the material to yourself, you did it on purpose. Regardless of what word you use when you disclose what happened, understanding that difference, owning up to it, and showing how you've changed as a result is your best hope of gaining future employment.
Passing it off as a mistake, or trying to portray ignorance (in the sense of saying "oh, I didn't realize it was wrong when I did it") is just going to make it sound like you don't bother understanding or following policies. An employee who doesn't know about a policy important enough to fire someone over is just a ticking time bomb to an employer. That's why employers ask employees to sign technology use policies, as it appears yours has - to ensure the employee is aware of policy.
Whether or not you knew about the policy upfront, you need to be ready to discuss steps you take to stay informed about policies and ensure you're following them. You need to be ready to show that you understand that you have responsibility to understand and comply with policy, and that you're willing to do that. That brings us to your questions,
But how do I explain this to show I learnt from my mistake and get a new job ?
First, you need to be able to frame what you did for yourself. Can you explain to us what you learned? How do you approach company policy in general? How to you ensure you're aware of it, and following it?
You certainly don't need to blurt out a 5 minute monologue unprompted, but you do want to be ready to answer these questions because they will come up if you disclose what happened as you intend to. We can't tell you the best way to answer, since the best way to answer is honestly and you're the only one who can give your honest answer.
Wouldn't employers just throw my application to the bin once I declare I have been dismissed for gross misconduct?
Some certainly will, especially those who are more security-conscious. You may want to target less security-sensitive industries or environments until you've worked up enough of a resume after this event to show that you're reliable.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
dwizum
9,88932241
9,88932241
+20 if I could.
– bob
5 hours ago
add a comment |
+20 if I could.
– bob
5 hours ago
+20 if I could.
– bob
5 hours ago
+20 if I could.
– bob
5 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
This is mostly a matter of describing your motivation appropriately, and in this respect "At that time, I did not realize" does a better job of conveying that your basis of judgment has changed in the course of that experience than a mere "I did not realize" would. The latter looks more like something that could repeat under similar circumstances.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
This is mostly a matter of describing your motivation appropriately, and in this respect "At that time, I did not realize" does a better job of conveying that your basis of judgment has changed in the course of that experience than a mere "I did not realize" would. The latter looks more like something that could repeat under similar circumstances.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
This is mostly a matter of describing your motivation appropriately, and in this respect "At that time, I did not realize" does a better job of conveying that your basis of judgment has changed in the course of that experience than a mere "I did not realize" would. The latter looks more like something that could repeat under similar circumstances.
New contributor
This is mostly a matter of describing your motivation appropriately, and in this respect "At that time, I did not realize" does a better job of conveying that your basis of judgment has changed in the course of that experience than a mere "I did not realize" would. The latter looks more like something that could repeat under similar circumstances.
New contributor
edited 4 hours ago
GreySage
1054
1054
New contributor
answered 7 hours ago
user95708
571
571
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
What you did was a breach of data protection laws in most jurisdictions. Understand this, and approach the question from that angle.
You said it yourself that you were working on client confidential information, and sent it to your personal mailbox.
Businesses have a term for that kind of behaviour, and that is 'data leakage'. In sending that information to your own mailbox, you transmitted the data to a number of machines, any number of which could be intercepting the data for reading, and many do albeit for legit purposes of scanning for advertising relevant stuff or scanning viruses. If any of those connections were being intercepted by an unknown third party, however, you've just put your customer's data into their hands.
Acknowledge that your data security awareness was sorely lacking and that you have worked to fix this in your wording to your prospective employer
This includes understanding what you did wrong and explaining how you might have approached this in future (hint: ask boss, transfer via encrypted USB if necessary and allowed. NEVER by email unless explicitly given the go-ahead). Phrase it as a serious learning point, because you sure as hell aren't going to do it again after getting fired.
The US is a large jurisdiction, and generally have what I consider very little protection for private data. For most cases in the US, I'd expect it to be legal.
– David Thornley
4 hours ago
Data protection laws generally protect personal data. There's no indication that the data that the OP here emailed to themselves was personal data. Even if it were, transmitting some personal data by email does not of itself breach data protection laws in any jurisdiction; if it did, almost all email use would be illegal in those jurisdictions, since sending an email to any person's email address inherently transmits personal data (namely, the address itself!). As such, your first sentence is nonsense.
– Mark Amery
3 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
What you did was a breach of data protection laws in most jurisdictions. Understand this, and approach the question from that angle.
You said it yourself that you were working on client confidential information, and sent it to your personal mailbox.
Businesses have a term for that kind of behaviour, and that is 'data leakage'. In sending that information to your own mailbox, you transmitted the data to a number of machines, any number of which could be intercepting the data for reading, and many do albeit for legit purposes of scanning for advertising relevant stuff or scanning viruses. If any of those connections were being intercepted by an unknown third party, however, you've just put your customer's data into their hands.
Acknowledge that your data security awareness was sorely lacking and that you have worked to fix this in your wording to your prospective employer
This includes understanding what you did wrong and explaining how you might have approached this in future (hint: ask boss, transfer via encrypted USB if necessary and allowed. NEVER by email unless explicitly given the go-ahead). Phrase it as a serious learning point, because you sure as hell aren't going to do it again after getting fired.
The US is a large jurisdiction, and generally have what I consider very little protection for private data. For most cases in the US, I'd expect it to be legal.
– David Thornley
4 hours ago
Data protection laws generally protect personal data. There's no indication that the data that the OP here emailed to themselves was personal data. Even if it were, transmitting some personal data by email does not of itself breach data protection laws in any jurisdiction; if it did, almost all email use would be illegal in those jurisdictions, since sending an email to any person's email address inherently transmits personal data (namely, the address itself!). As such, your first sentence is nonsense.
– Mark Amery
3 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
What you did was a breach of data protection laws in most jurisdictions. Understand this, and approach the question from that angle.
You said it yourself that you were working on client confidential information, and sent it to your personal mailbox.
Businesses have a term for that kind of behaviour, and that is 'data leakage'. In sending that information to your own mailbox, you transmitted the data to a number of machines, any number of which could be intercepting the data for reading, and many do albeit for legit purposes of scanning for advertising relevant stuff or scanning viruses. If any of those connections were being intercepted by an unknown third party, however, you've just put your customer's data into their hands.
Acknowledge that your data security awareness was sorely lacking and that you have worked to fix this in your wording to your prospective employer
This includes understanding what you did wrong and explaining how you might have approached this in future (hint: ask boss, transfer via encrypted USB if necessary and allowed. NEVER by email unless explicitly given the go-ahead). Phrase it as a serious learning point, because you sure as hell aren't going to do it again after getting fired.
What you did was a breach of data protection laws in most jurisdictions. Understand this, and approach the question from that angle.
You said it yourself that you were working on client confidential information, and sent it to your personal mailbox.
Businesses have a term for that kind of behaviour, and that is 'data leakage'. In sending that information to your own mailbox, you transmitted the data to a number of machines, any number of which could be intercepting the data for reading, and many do albeit for legit purposes of scanning for advertising relevant stuff or scanning viruses. If any of those connections were being intercepted by an unknown third party, however, you've just put your customer's data into their hands.
Acknowledge that your data security awareness was sorely lacking and that you have worked to fix this in your wording to your prospective employer
This includes understanding what you did wrong and explaining how you might have approached this in future (hint: ask boss, transfer via encrypted USB if necessary and allowed. NEVER by email unless explicitly given the go-ahead). Phrase it as a serious learning point, because you sure as hell aren't going to do it again after getting fired.
answered 5 hours ago
520
1,148212
1,148212
The US is a large jurisdiction, and generally have what I consider very little protection for private data. For most cases in the US, I'd expect it to be legal.
– David Thornley
4 hours ago
Data protection laws generally protect personal data. There's no indication that the data that the OP here emailed to themselves was personal data. Even if it were, transmitting some personal data by email does not of itself breach data protection laws in any jurisdiction; if it did, almost all email use would be illegal in those jurisdictions, since sending an email to any person's email address inherently transmits personal data (namely, the address itself!). As such, your first sentence is nonsense.
– Mark Amery
3 hours ago
add a comment |
The US is a large jurisdiction, and generally have what I consider very little protection for private data. For most cases in the US, I'd expect it to be legal.
– David Thornley
4 hours ago
Data protection laws generally protect personal data. There's no indication that the data that the OP here emailed to themselves was personal data. Even if it were, transmitting some personal data by email does not of itself breach data protection laws in any jurisdiction; if it did, almost all email use would be illegal in those jurisdictions, since sending an email to any person's email address inherently transmits personal data (namely, the address itself!). As such, your first sentence is nonsense.
– Mark Amery
3 hours ago
The US is a large jurisdiction, and generally have what I consider very little protection for private data. For most cases in the US, I'd expect it to be legal.
– David Thornley
4 hours ago
The US is a large jurisdiction, and generally have what I consider very little protection for private data. For most cases in the US, I'd expect it to be legal.
– David Thornley
4 hours ago
Data protection laws generally protect personal data. There's no indication that the data that the OP here emailed to themselves was personal data. Even if it were, transmitting some personal data by email does not of itself breach data protection laws in any jurisdiction; if it did, almost all email use would be illegal in those jurisdictions, since sending an email to any person's email address inherently transmits personal data (namely, the address itself!). As such, your first sentence is nonsense.
– Mark Amery
3 hours ago
Data protection laws generally protect personal data. There's no indication that the data that the OP here emailed to themselves was personal data. Even if it were, transmitting some personal data by email does not of itself breach data protection laws in any jurisdiction; if it did, almost all email use would be illegal in those jurisdictions, since sending an email to any person's email address inherently transmits personal data (namely, the address itself!). As such, your first sentence is nonsense.
– Mark Amery
3 hours ago
add a comment |
user10433947 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user10433947 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user10433947 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user10433947 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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3
No legal ramifications or civil lawsuits at this stage as it wasn't trade secrets or secret IP. The information was work i was working on at the moment and I emailed it as I needed to do work on my personal laptop ; I couldn't take my work station away whilst on extended leave overseas.
– user10433947
12 hours ago
29
Ok, so a dumb mistake instead of actual malicious action.
– Borgh
12 hours ago
8
Thanks @gnat. The link you sent is asking if it is possible to be rehired into the same employer. I am asking more generally with regards to other employers. I highly doubt my ex employer would rehire me
– user10433947
12 hours ago
1
I feel that the question remains unclear about precisely what aspect of your conduct got you fired, and why. "Confidential information" could be anything from a million patients' health records to a couple of hundred lines of banal business application source code you'd written for a client of no real sensitivity or conceivable value to any attacker. You don't explain whether you were fired for putting that data on a personal laptop at all or for doing so via personal email. You also don't indicate whether you could reasonably realise that the information needed to be kept secure.
– Mark Amery
6 hours ago
1
Possible duplicate of In a job interview, how do I explain why I was fired?
– Dukeling
5 hours ago