Show that $x_0 in overline{langle M rangle } $ if and only if $f(x_0) = 0, ; forall f in X^* : f|_M = 0$.












1












$begingroup$


Exercise :




Let $X$ be a normed space and $M subset X$. Show that an element $x_0 in X$ belongs to the set $overline{langle M rangle}$ if and only if $f(x_0) = 0$ for all $f in X^*$ such that $f|_M = 0$.




Attempt :



First of all, clarifying that $overline{langle M rangle}$ denotes the closure of the linear hull of $m in M$, thus it is the set :



$$overline{langle M rangle} = overline{{lambda cdot m | m in M , lambda in mathbb R}}$$



I have the intuition that what we want to prove essentialy is that $langle M rangle$ is dense over $X$, but I'm not sure if that's correct.



Other than that, I can't seem to find any other way around it, so I would really appreciate any tips or elaborations.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The definition you state about linear hull is wrong by the way.
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 17:22
















1












$begingroup$


Exercise :




Let $X$ be a normed space and $M subset X$. Show that an element $x_0 in X$ belongs to the set $overline{langle M rangle}$ if and only if $f(x_0) = 0$ for all $f in X^*$ such that $f|_M = 0$.




Attempt :



First of all, clarifying that $overline{langle M rangle}$ denotes the closure of the linear hull of $m in M$, thus it is the set :



$$overline{langle M rangle} = overline{{lambda cdot m | m in M , lambda in mathbb R}}$$



I have the intuition that what we want to prove essentialy is that $langle M rangle$ is dense over $X$, but I'm not sure if that's correct.



Other than that, I can't seem to find any other way around it, so I would really appreciate any tips or elaborations.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The definition you state about linear hull is wrong by the way.
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 17:22














1












1








1





$begingroup$


Exercise :




Let $X$ be a normed space and $M subset X$. Show that an element $x_0 in X$ belongs to the set $overline{langle M rangle}$ if and only if $f(x_0) = 0$ for all $f in X^*$ such that $f|_M = 0$.




Attempt :



First of all, clarifying that $overline{langle M rangle}$ denotes the closure of the linear hull of $m in M$, thus it is the set :



$$overline{langle M rangle} = overline{{lambda cdot m | m in M , lambda in mathbb R}}$$



I have the intuition that what we want to prove essentialy is that $langle M rangle$ is dense over $X$, but I'm not sure if that's correct.



Other than that, I can't seem to find any other way around it, so I would really appreciate any tips or elaborations.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




Exercise :




Let $X$ be a normed space and $M subset X$. Show that an element $x_0 in X$ belongs to the set $overline{langle M rangle}$ if and only if $f(x_0) = 0$ for all $f in X^*$ such that $f|_M = 0$.




Attempt :



First of all, clarifying that $overline{langle M rangle}$ denotes the closure of the linear hull of $m in M$, thus it is the set :



$$overline{langle M rangle} = overline{{lambda cdot m | m in M , lambda in mathbb R}}$$



I have the intuition that what we want to prove essentialy is that $langle M rangle$ is dense over $X$, but I'm not sure if that's correct.



Other than that, I can't seem to find any other way around it, so I would really appreciate any tips or elaborations.







real-analysis functional-analysis normed-spaces riesz-representation-theorem hahn-banach-theorem






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Dec 17 '18 at 16:16









RebellosRebellos

14.6k31247




14.6k31247












  • $begingroup$
    The definition you state about linear hull is wrong by the way.
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 17:22


















  • $begingroup$
    The definition you state about linear hull is wrong by the way.
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 17:22
















$begingroup$
The definition you state about linear hull is wrong by the way.
$endgroup$
– Shashi
Dec 17 '18 at 17:22




$begingroup$
The definition you state about linear hull is wrong by the way.
$endgroup$
– Shashi
Dec 17 '18 at 17:22










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

$newcommand{span}{operatorname{span}}$No, the exercise is not about proving that $span M$ is dense. The set $M$ could be a singleton for instance. A sketch of a proof could be as follows:



"$Rightarrow$": Let $xin overline{span M}$, then there is a sequence $x_nin span M$ such that $x_nto x$. Moreover if $f|_M=0$ for some $fin X^*$ then what can you say about $f(x)$? Use the continuity of $f$.



"$Leftarrow$": Assume that $f(x)=0$ for all $fin X^*$ such that $f|_M=0$. Assume that $xnotin overline{span M}$ then there is some ball $B(x,delta)$ such that $B(x,delta)capoverline{span M}=emptyset$. In particular for every $zin span M$ we have $|x-z|geq delta$.



We will make use of this. First notice that each $zin span(Mcup x)$ can be written as follows
begin{align}
z=lambda x+sum_{i=1}^n mu_i m_i
end{align}

for some $lambda$, $mu_iinmathbb K$ and $m_iin M$. We define the operator $g:span(Mcup x)tomathbb K$ as follows:
begin{align}
g(z)=lambda
end{align}

It is easy to see that it is linear. Moreover $g|_M=0$ and $g(x)=1$ by definition. It is also bounded, since (assuming $lambdaneq 0$)
begin{align}
frac{|g(z)|}{|z|}=frac{|lambda|}{|lambda x + sum_{i}mu_i m_i |}=frac{1}{|x+sum_{i}frac{mu_i}{lambda} m_i|}leq frac 1 delta
end{align}

This bound trivially holds if $lambda=0$.
Hahn Banach now says that there is an extension of $g$, call it $fin X^*$ satisfying $f|_{span(Mcup {x})}=g$. This $f$ satisfies $f(x)=1$ while $f|_M=0$ a contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Hi and thanks a lot for your input. Well, for the first, if $f|_M = 0 implies f(x) = 0 Leftrightarrow f(lim_{n to infty} x_n) = 0 Leftrightarrow lim_{n to infty} f(x_n) = 0$ ? Where does that lead ?
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 17:59










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Don't you want to show that $f(x)=0$? That is what you have in your comment? I don't understand what you mean.
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:00










  • $begingroup$
    I want to show that $f(x) =0$ with $x in M$. What we have is $x in overline{text{span}M}$. I am probably missing something thought.
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Oh I had to clarify $text{ span } M$ is just $langle Mrangle$. Does it make sense now?
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:06






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rebellos I'm happy as long as you understand it! Let me know if you come up with something unclear!
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:19











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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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active

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active

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2












$begingroup$

$newcommand{span}{operatorname{span}}$No, the exercise is not about proving that $span M$ is dense. The set $M$ could be a singleton for instance. A sketch of a proof could be as follows:



"$Rightarrow$": Let $xin overline{span M}$, then there is a sequence $x_nin span M$ such that $x_nto x$. Moreover if $f|_M=0$ for some $fin X^*$ then what can you say about $f(x)$? Use the continuity of $f$.



"$Leftarrow$": Assume that $f(x)=0$ for all $fin X^*$ such that $f|_M=0$. Assume that $xnotin overline{span M}$ then there is some ball $B(x,delta)$ such that $B(x,delta)capoverline{span M}=emptyset$. In particular for every $zin span M$ we have $|x-z|geq delta$.



We will make use of this. First notice that each $zin span(Mcup x)$ can be written as follows
begin{align}
z=lambda x+sum_{i=1}^n mu_i m_i
end{align}

for some $lambda$, $mu_iinmathbb K$ and $m_iin M$. We define the operator $g:span(Mcup x)tomathbb K$ as follows:
begin{align}
g(z)=lambda
end{align}

It is easy to see that it is linear. Moreover $g|_M=0$ and $g(x)=1$ by definition. It is also bounded, since (assuming $lambdaneq 0$)
begin{align}
frac{|g(z)|}{|z|}=frac{|lambda|}{|lambda x + sum_{i}mu_i m_i |}=frac{1}{|x+sum_{i}frac{mu_i}{lambda} m_i|}leq frac 1 delta
end{align}

This bound trivially holds if $lambda=0$.
Hahn Banach now says that there is an extension of $g$, call it $fin X^*$ satisfying $f|_{span(Mcup {x})}=g$. This $f$ satisfies $f(x)=1$ while $f|_M=0$ a contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Hi and thanks a lot for your input. Well, for the first, if $f|_M = 0 implies f(x) = 0 Leftrightarrow f(lim_{n to infty} x_n) = 0 Leftrightarrow lim_{n to infty} f(x_n) = 0$ ? Where does that lead ?
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 17:59










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Don't you want to show that $f(x)=0$? That is what you have in your comment? I don't understand what you mean.
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:00










  • $begingroup$
    I want to show that $f(x) =0$ with $x in M$. What we have is $x in overline{text{span}M}$. I am probably missing something thought.
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Oh I had to clarify $text{ span } M$ is just $langle Mrangle$. Does it make sense now?
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:06






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rebellos I'm happy as long as you understand it! Let me know if you come up with something unclear!
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:19
















2












$begingroup$

$newcommand{span}{operatorname{span}}$No, the exercise is not about proving that $span M$ is dense. The set $M$ could be a singleton for instance. A sketch of a proof could be as follows:



"$Rightarrow$": Let $xin overline{span M}$, then there is a sequence $x_nin span M$ such that $x_nto x$. Moreover if $f|_M=0$ for some $fin X^*$ then what can you say about $f(x)$? Use the continuity of $f$.



"$Leftarrow$": Assume that $f(x)=0$ for all $fin X^*$ such that $f|_M=0$. Assume that $xnotin overline{span M}$ then there is some ball $B(x,delta)$ such that $B(x,delta)capoverline{span M}=emptyset$. In particular for every $zin span M$ we have $|x-z|geq delta$.



We will make use of this. First notice that each $zin span(Mcup x)$ can be written as follows
begin{align}
z=lambda x+sum_{i=1}^n mu_i m_i
end{align}

for some $lambda$, $mu_iinmathbb K$ and $m_iin M$. We define the operator $g:span(Mcup x)tomathbb K$ as follows:
begin{align}
g(z)=lambda
end{align}

It is easy to see that it is linear. Moreover $g|_M=0$ and $g(x)=1$ by definition. It is also bounded, since (assuming $lambdaneq 0$)
begin{align}
frac{|g(z)|}{|z|}=frac{|lambda|}{|lambda x + sum_{i}mu_i m_i |}=frac{1}{|x+sum_{i}frac{mu_i}{lambda} m_i|}leq frac 1 delta
end{align}

This bound trivially holds if $lambda=0$.
Hahn Banach now says that there is an extension of $g$, call it $fin X^*$ satisfying $f|_{span(Mcup {x})}=g$. This $f$ satisfies $f(x)=1$ while $f|_M=0$ a contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Hi and thanks a lot for your input. Well, for the first, if $f|_M = 0 implies f(x) = 0 Leftrightarrow f(lim_{n to infty} x_n) = 0 Leftrightarrow lim_{n to infty} f(x_n) = 0$ ? Where does that lead ?
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 17:59










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Don't you want to show that $f(x)=0$? That is what you have in your comment? I don't understand what you mean.
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:00










  • $begingroup$
    I want to show that $f(x) =0$ with $x in M$. What we have is $x in overline{text{span}M}$. I am probably missing something thought.
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Oh I had to clarify $text{ span } M$ is just $langle Mrangle$. Does it make sense now?
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:06






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rebellos I'm happy as long as you understand it! Let me know if you come up with something unclear!
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:19














2












2








2





$begingroup$

$newcommand{span}{operatorname{span}}$No, the exercise is not about proving that $span M$ is dense. The set $M$ could be a singleton for instance. A sketch of a proof could be as follows:



"$Rightarrow$": Let $xin overline{span M}$, then there is a sequence $x_nin span M$ such that $x_nto x$. Moreover if $f|_M=0$ for some $fin X^*$ then what can you say about $f(x)$? Use the continuity of $f$.



"$Leftarrow$": Assume that $f(x)=0$ for all $fin X^*$ such that $f|_M=0$. Assume that $xnotin overline{span M}$ then there is some ball $B(x,delta)$ such that $B(x,delta)capoverline{span M}=emptyset$. In particular for every $zin span M$ we have $|x-z|geq delta$.



We will make use of this. First notice that each $zin span(Mcup x)$ can be written as follows
begin{align}
z=lambda x+sum_{i=1}^n mu_i m_i
end{align}

for some $lambda$, $mu_iinmathbb K$ and $m_iin M$. We define the operator $g:span(Mcup x)tomathbb K$ as follows:
begin{align}
g(z)=lambda
end{align}

It is easy to see that it is linear. Moreover $g|_M=0$ and $g(x)=1$ by definition. It is also bounded, since (assuming $lambdaneq 0$)
begin{align}
frac{|g(z)|}{|z|}=frac{|lambda|}{|lambda x + sum_{i}mu_i m_i |}=frac{1}{|x+sum_{i}frac{mu_i}{lambda} m_i|}leq frac 1 delta
end{align}

This bound trivially holds if $lambda=0$.
Hahn Banach now says that there is an extension of $g$, call it $fin X^*$ satisfying $f|_{span(Mcup {x})}=g$. This $f$ satisfies $f(x)=1$ while $f|_M=0$ a contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



$newcommand{span}{operatorname{span}}$No, the exercise is not about proving that $span M$ is dense. The set $M$ could be a singleton for instance. A sketch of a proof could be as follows:



"$Rightarrow$": Let $xin overline{span M}$, then there is a sequence $x_nin span M$ such that $x_nto x$. Moreover if $f|_M=0$ for some $fin X^*$ then what can you say about $f(x)$? Use the continuity of $f$.



"$Leftarrow$": Assume that $f(x)=0$ for all $fin X^*$ such that $f|_M=0$. Assume that $xnotin overline{span M}$ then there is some ball $B(x,delta)$ such that $B(x,delta)capoverline{span M}=emptyset$. In particular for every $zin span M$ we have $|x-z|geq delta$.



We will make use of this. First notice that each $zin span(Mcup x)$ can be written as follows
begin{align}
z=lambda x+sum_{i=1}^n mu_i m_i
end{align}

for some $lambda$, $mu_iinmathbb K$ and $m_iin M$. We define the operator $g:span(Mcup x)tomathbb K$ as follows:
begin{align}
g(z)=lambda
end{align}

It is easy to see that it is linear. Moreover $g|_M=0$ and $g(x)=1$ by definition. It is also bounded, since (assuming $lambdaneq 0$)
begin{align}
frac{|g(z)|}{|z|}=frac{|lambda|}{|lambda x + sum_{i}mu_i m_i |}=frac{1}{|x+sum_{i}frac{mu_i}{lambda} m_i|}leq frac 1 delta
end{align}

This bound trivially holds if $lambda=0$.
Hahn Banach now says that there is an extension of $g$, call it $fin X^*$ satisfying $f|_{span(Mcup {x})}=g$. This $f$ satisfies $f(x)=1$ while $f|_M=0$ a contradiction.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Dec 18 '18 at 22:06

























answered Dec 17 '18 at 16:49









ShashiShashi

7,1981628




7,1981628












  • $begingroup$
    Hi and thanks a lot for your input. Well, for the first, if $f|_M = 0 implies f(x) = 0 Leftrightarrow f(lim_{n to infty} x_n) = 0 Leftrightarrow lim_{n to infty} f(x_n) = 0$ ? Where does that lead ?
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 17:59










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Don't you want to show that $f(x)=0$? That is what you have in your comment? I don't understand what you mean.
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:00










  • $begingroup$
    I want to show that $f(x) =0$ with $x in M$. What we have is $x in overline{text{span}M}$. I am probably missing something thought.
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Oh I had to clarify $text{ span } M$ is just $langle Mrangle$. Does it make sense now?
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:06






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rebellos I'm happy as long as you understand it! Let me know if you come up with something unclear!
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:19


















  • $begingroup$
    Hi and thanks a lot for your input. Well, for the first, if $f|_M = 0 implies f(x) = 0 Leftrightarrow f(lim_{n to infty} x_n) = 0 Leftrightarrow lim_{n to infty} f(x_n) = 0$ ? Where does that lead ?
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 17:59










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Don't you want to show that $f(x)=0$? That is what you have in your comment? I don't understand what you mean.
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:00










  • $begingroup$
    I want to show that $f(x) =0$ with $x in M$. What we have is $x in overline{text{span}M}$. I am probably missing something thought.
    $endgroup$
    – Rebellos
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Rebellos Oh I had to clarify $text{ span } M$ is just $langle Mrangle$. Does it make sense now?
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:06






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rebellos I'm happy as long as you understand it! Let me know if you come up with something unclear!
    $endgroup$
    – Shashi
    Dec 17 '18 at 18:19
















$begingroup$
Hi and thanks a lot for your input. Well, for the first, if $f|_M = 0 implies f(x) = 0 Leftrightarrow f(lim_{n to infty} x_n) = 0 Leftrightarrow lim_{n to infty} f(x_n) = 0$ ? Where does that lead ?
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Dec 17 '18 at 17:59




$begingroup$
Hi and thanks a lot for your input. Well, for the first, if $f|_M = 0 implies f(x) = 0 Leftrightarrow f(lim_{n to infty} x_n) = 0 Leftrightarrow lim_{n to infty} f(x_n) = 0$ ? Where does that lead ?
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Dec 17 '18 at 17:59












$begingroup$
@Rebellos Don't you want to show that $f(x)=0$? That is what you have in your comment? I don't understand what you mean.
$endgroup$
– Shashi
Dec 17 '18 at 18:00




$begingroup$
@Rebellos Don't you want to show that $f(x)=0$? That is what you have in your comment? I don't understand what you mean.
$endgroup$
– Shashi
Dec 17 '18 at 18:00












$begingroup$
I want to show that $f(x) =0$ with $x in M$. What we have is $x in overline{text{span}M}$. I am probably missing something thought.
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Dec 17 '18 at 18:04




$begingroup$
I want to show that $f(x) =0$ with $x in M$. What we have is $x in overline{text{span}M}$. I am probably missing something thought.
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Dec 17 '18 at 18:04












$begingroup$
@Rebellos Oh I had to clarify $text{ span } M$ is just $langle Mrangle$. Does it make sense now?
$endgroup$
– Shashi
Dec 17 '18 at 18:06




$begingroup$
@Rebellos Oh I had to clarify $text{ span } M$ is just $langle Mrangle$. Does it make sense now?
$endgroup$
– Shashi
Dec 17 '18 at 18:06




1




1




$begingroup$
@Rebellos I'm happy as long as you understand it! Let me know if you come up with something unclear!
$endgroup$
– Shashi
Dec 17 '18 at 18:19




$begingroup$
@Rebellos I'm happy as long as you understand it! Let me know if you come up with something unclear!
$endgroup$
– Shashi
Dec 17 '18 at 18:19


















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