Computing primitive roots of unity in a Finite Field extension












2












$begingroup$


We have an irreducible polynomial $x^2 - 2 in mathbb{F}_5[x]$, and I have to find the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity in $mathbb{F}_{5^2}$ and then compute their minimal polynomials over $mathbb{F}_5$, and then the factorisation of $Phi_{12}(x)$ in $mathbb{F}_5[x]$.



Now, I sort of went in the "reverse direction". We have $$Phi_{12}(x) = x^4 - x^2 + 1 implies overline{Phi}_{12}(x) = (x^2 - 2x - 1)(x^2 + 2x - 1) pmod{5}$$



Which is the factorisation of $Phi_{12}(x)$ in $mathbb{F}_5[x]$, and also clearly the minimal polynomials of the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity over $mathbb{F}_5$



Now, clearly $mathbb{F}_{5^2}=mathbb{F}[x]/langle x^2 - 2 rangle=mathbb{F}_5[sqrt{2}]$. Therefore the roots of the factorised polynomails above are our primitive roots of unity, which are precisely: $1+ sqrt{2}, 1- sqrt{2}, -1- sqrt{2}, -1+ sqrt{2}$



Now, I was wondering if there's a way to go about the question in a "non-reverse fasion" i.e. first compute the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity in $mathbb{F}_{5^2}$. Now, I understand we have $|mathbb{F}^{times}_{5^2}|=24$, and since $overline{zeta}_{12} neq 0 implies overline{zeta} _{12} in mathbb{F}^{times}_{5^2}$



Now how do I compute the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity assuming that the only information I have at my disposal is the information provided in the paragraph above?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking for. You say, “…first compute the primitive $12$-th roots of unity in $Bbb F_{25}$.” How were you thinking of doing this, other than by the method you already used above that?
    $endgroup$
    – Lubin
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:54










  • $begingroup$
    $x^2-5$ is not irreducible in $bf F_5[x]$ since it is the same as $x^5$.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:56










  • $begingroup$
    Made a terrible mistake, it was $2$, not $5$. Corrected
    $endgroup$
    – Naweed G. Seldon
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:56










  • $begingroup$
    @Lubin I'm not sure, I was hoping there was an alternate method
    $endgroup$
    – Naweed G. Seldon
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:57










  • $begingroup$
    We can find a generator $alpha$ for $mathbb F_{5^2}$. Then all powers of $alpha$ that are co-prime with 24 are 24th roots of unity. Their squares are the 12th roots of unity,
    $endgroup$
    – I like Serena
    Dec 23 '18 at 22:55
















2












$begingroup$


We have an irreducible polynomial $x^2 - 2 in mathbb{F}_5[x]$, and I have to find the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity in $mathbb{F}_{5^2}$ and then compute their minimal polynomials over $mathbb{F}_5$, and then the factorisation of $Phi_{12}(x)$ in $mathbb{F}_5[x]$.



Now, I sort of went in the "reverse direction". We have $$Phi_{12}(x) = x^4 - x^2 + 1 implies overline{Phi}_{12}(x) = (x^2 - 2x - 1)(x^2 + 2x - 1) pmod{5}$$



Which is the factorisation of $Phi_{12}(x)$ in $mathbb{F}_5[x]$, and also clearly the minimal polynomials of the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity over $mathbb{F}_5$



Now, clearly $mathbb{F}_{5^2}=mathbb{F}[x]/langle x^2 - 2 rangle=mathbb{F}_5[sqrt{2}]$. Therefore the roots of the factorised polynomails above are our primitive roots of unity, which are precisely: $1+ sqrt{2}, 1- sqrt{2}, -1- sqrt{2}, -1+ sqrt{2}$



Now, I was wondering if there's a way to go about the question in a "non-reverse fasion" i.e. first compute the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity in $mathbb{F}_{5^2}$. Now, I understand we have $|mathbb{F}^{times}_{5^2}|=24$, and since $overline{zeta}_{12} neq 0 implies overline{zeta} _{12} in mathbb{F}^{times}_{5^2}$



Now how do I compute the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity assuming that the only information I have at my disposal is the information provided in the paragraph above?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking for. You say, “…first compute the primitive $12$-th roots of unity in $Bbb F_{25}$.” How were you thinking of doing this, other than by the method you already used above that?
    $endgroup$
    – Lubin
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:54










  • $begingroup$
    $x^2-5$ is not irreducible in $bf F_5[x]$ since it is the same as $x^5$.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:56










  • $begingroup$
    Made a terrible mistake, it was $2$, not $5$. Corrected
    $endgroup$
    – Naweed G. Seldon
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:56










  • $begingroup$
    @Lubin I'm not sure, I was hoping there was an alternate method
    $endgroup$
    – Naweed G. Seldon
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:57










  • $begingroup$
    We can find a generator $alpha$ for $mathbb F_{5^2}$. Then all powers of $alpha$ that are co-prime with 24 are 24th roots of unity. Their squares are the 12th roots of unity,
    $endgroup$
    – I like Serena
    Dec 23 '18 at 22:55














2












2








2





$begingroup$


We have an irreducible polynomial $x^2 - 2 in mathbb{F}_5[x]$, and I have to find the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity in $mathbb{F}_{5^2}$ and then compute their minimal polynomials over $mathbb{F}_5$, and then the factorisation of $Phi_{12}(x)$ in $mathbb{F}_5[x]$.



Now, I sort of went in the "reverse direction". We have $$Phi_{12}(x) = x^4 - x^2 + 1 implies overline{Phi}_{12}(x) = (x^2 - 2x - 1)(x^2 + 2x - 1) pmod{5}$$



Which is the factorisation of $Phi_{12}(x)$ in $mathbb{F}_5[x]$, and also clearly the minimal polynomials of the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity over $mathbb{F}_5$



Now, clearly $mathbb{F}_{5^2}=mathbb{F}[x]/langle x^2 - 2 rangle=mathbb{F}_5[sqrt{2}]$. Therefore the roots of the factorised polynomails above are our primitive roots of unity, which are precisely: $1+ sqrt{2}, 1- sqrt{2}, -1- sqrt{2}, -1+ sqrt{2}$



Now, I was wondering if there's a way to go about the question in a "non-reverse fasion" i.e. first compute the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity in $mathbb{F}_{5^2}$. Now, I understand we have $|mathbb{F}^{times}_{5^2}|=24$, and since $overline{zeta}_{12} neq 0 implies overline{zeta} _{12} in mathbb{F}^{times}_{5^2}$



Now how do I compute the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity assuming that the only information I have at my disposal is the information provided in the paragraph above?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




We have an irreducible polynomial $x^2 - 2 in mathbb{F}_5[x]$, and I have to find the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity in $mathbb{F}_{5^2}$ and then compute their minimal polynomials over $mathbb{F}_5$, and then the factorisation of $Phi_{12}(x)$ in $mathbb{F}_5[x]$.



Now, I sort of went in the "reverse direction". We have $$Phi_{12}(x) = x^4 - x^2 + 1 implies overline{Phi}_{12}(x) = (x^2 - 2x - 1)(x^2 + 2x - 1) pmod{5}$$



Which is the factorisation of $Phi_{12}(x)$ in $mathbb{F}_5[x]$, and also clearly the minimal polynomials of the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity over $mathbb{F}_5$



Now, clearly $mathbb{F}_{5^2}=mathbb{F}[x]/langle x^2 - 2 rangle=mathbb{F}_5[sqrt{2}]$. Therefore the roots of the factorised polynomails above are our primitive roots of unity, which are precisely: $1+ sqrt{2}, 1- sqrt{2}, -1- sqrt{2}, -1+ sqrt{2}$



Now, I was wondering if there's a way to go about the question in a "non-reverse fasion" i.e. first compute the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity in $mathbb{F}_{5^2}$. Now, I understand we have $|mathbb{F}^{times}_{5^2}|=24$, and since $overline{zeta}_{12} neq 0 implies overline{zeta} _{12} in mathbb{F}^{times}_{5^2}$



Now how do I compute the primitive $12^{text{th}}$ roots of unity assuming that the only information I have at my disposal is the information provided in the paragraph above?







galois-theory finite-fields cyclotomic-polynomials






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 23 '18 at 23:01







Naweed G. Seldon

















asked Dec 23 '18 at 21:41









Naweed G. SeldonNaweed G. Seldon

1,304419




1,304419












  • $begingroup$
    I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking for. You say, “…first compute the primitive $12$-th roots of unity in $Bbb F_{25}$.” How were you thinking of doing this, other than by the method you already used above that?
    $endgroup$
    – Lubin
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:54










  • $begingroup$
    $x^2-5$ is not irreducible in $bf F_5[x]$ since it is the same as $x^5$.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:56










  • $begingroup$
    Made a terrible mistake, it was $2$, not $5$. Corrected
    $endgroup$
    – Naweed G. Seldon
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:56










  • $begingroup$
    @Lubin I'm not sure, I was hoping there was an alternate method
    $endgroup$
    – Naweed G. Seldon
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:57










  • $begingroup$
    We can find a generator $alpha$ for $mathbb F_{5^2}$. Then all powers of $alpha$ that are co-prime with 24 are 24th roots of unity. Their squares are the 12th roots of unity,
    $endgroup$
    – I like Serena
    Dec 23 '18 at 22:55


















  • $begingroup$
    I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking for. You say, “…first compute the primitive $12$-th roots of unity in $Bbb F_{25}$.” How were you thinking of doing this, other than by the method you already used above that?
    $endgroup$
    – Lubin
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:54










  • $begingroup$
    $x^2-5$ is not irreducible in $bf F_5[x]$ since it is the same as $x^5$.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:56










  • $begingroup$
    Made a terrible mistake, it was $2$, not $5$. Corrected
    $endgroup$
    – Naweed G. Seldon
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:56










  • $begingroup$
    @Lubin I'm not sure, I was hoping there was an alternate method
    $endgroup$
    – Naweed G. Seldon
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:57










  • $begingroup$
    We can find a generator $alpha$ for $mathbb F_{5^2}$. Then all powers of $alpha$ that are co-prime with 24 are 24th roots of unity. Their squares are the 12th roots of unity,
    $endgroup$
    – I like Serena
    Dec 23 '18 at 22:55
















$begingroup$
I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking for. You say, “…first compute the primitive $12$-th roots of unity in $Bbb F_{25}$.” How were you thinking of doing this, other than by the method you already used above that?
$endgroup$
– Lubin
Dec 23 '18 at 21:54




$begingroup$
I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking for. You say, “…first compute the primitive $12$-th roots of unity in $Bbb F_{25}$.” How were you thinking of doing this, other than by the method you already used above that?
$endgroup$
– Lubin
Dec 23 '18 at 21:54












$begingroup$
$x^2-5$ is not irreducible in $bf F_5[x]$ since it is the same as $x^5$.
$endgroup$
– Bernard
Dec 23 '18 at 21:56




$begingroup$
$x^2-5$ is not irreducible in $bf F_5[x]$ since it is the same as $x^5$.
$endgroup$
– Bernard
Dec 23 '18 at 21:56












$begingroup$
Made a terrible mistake, it was $2$, not $5$. Corrected
$endgroup$
– Naweed G. Seldon
Dec 23 '18 at 21:56




$begingroup$
Made a terrible mistake, it was $2$, not $5$. Corrected
$endgroup$
– Naweed G. Seldon
Dec 23 '18 at 21:56












$begingroup$
@Lubin I'm not sure, I was hoping there was an alternate method
$endgroup$
– Naweed G. Seldon
Dec 23 '18 at 21:57




$begingroup$
@Lubin I'm not sure, I was hoping there was an alternate method
$endgroup$
– Naweed G. Seldon
Dec 23 '18 at 21:57












$begingroup$
We can find a generator $alpha$ for $mathbb F_{5^2}$. Then all powers of $alpha$ that are co-prime with 24 are 24th roots of unity. Their squares are the 12th roots of unity,
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 23 '18 at 22:55




$begingroup$
We can find a generator $alpha$ for $mathbb F_{5^2}$. Then all powers of $alpha$ that are co-prime with 24 are 24th roots of unity. Their squares are the 12th roots of unity,
$endgroup$
– I like Serena
Dec 23 '18 at 22:55










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

I'm not positive about what exactly you want to do, but the following may fit.



In $Bbb{F}_5$ the element $2$ is a primitive fourth root of unity. Let's record this fact in the form $zeta_4=2$, $zeta_4^4=1$.



Remember how in the field of complex numbers $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt{-3})/2$ is a primitive third root of unity? You should check that the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ only depends on that form of the number. Basically because it is a zero of $x^2+x+1=0$ (quadratic formula!), and $x^3-1=(x-1)(x^2+x+1)$. This means that if we can locate an element serving in the role of $sqrt{-3}$, then we can also find a third root of unity (barring the exceptional that the recipe yields $zeta_3=1$, but that happens only in characteristic three so does not concern us).



A point is that in $Bbb{F}_5$ we have $-3=2$. Therefore a square root of $2$ will also be a square root of $-3$. To get the extension $Bbb{F}_{25}$ you alread adjoined $sqrt2$. Just what the doctor ordered! We can use $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt2)/2$ as a primitive third root of unity. You are invited to verify the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ just to remove any doubts!



To finish off we recall the fact that if in an abelian group the element $a$ has order $m$, the element $b$ has order $n$, and $gcd(m,n)=1$, then the product $ab$ has order $mn$. In the present case we observe that $gcd(4,3)=1$, and thus may fully expect that
$$
zeta_4zeta_3=2cdotleft(frac{-1+sqrt2}2right)=-1+sqrt2
$$

must have order twelve.





You get the other primitive roots of order twelve by using different combinations of $zeta_4=pm2$ and $zeta_3=(-1pmsqrt{-3})/2$.





I leave it as an extra exercise to construct an eighth root of unity in the same way,
using the corresponding complex root of unity
$$zeta_8=cosfracpi4+isinfracpi4=frac{1+i}{sqrt2}$$
as a model.






share|cite|improve this answer









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    1 Answer
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    1 Answer
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    active

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    active

    oldest

    votes









    0












    $begingroup$

    I'm not positive about what exactly you want to do, but the following may fit.



    In $Bbb{F}_5$ the element $2$ is a primitive fourth root of unity. Let's record this fact in the form $zeta_4=2$, $zeta_4^4=1$.



    Remember how in the field of complex numbers $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt{-3})/2$ is a primitive third root of unity? You should check that the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ only depends on that form of the number. Basically because it is a zero of $x^2+x+1=0$ (quadratic formula!), and $x^3-1=(x-1)(x^2+x+1)$. This means that if we can locate an element serving in the role of $sqrt{-3}$, then we can also find a third root of unity (barring the exceptional that the recipe yields $zeta_3=1$, but that happens only in characteristic three so does not concern us).



    A point is that in $Bbb{F}_5$ we have $-3=2$. Therefore a square root of $2$ will also be a square root of $-3$. To get the extension $Bbb{F}_{25}$ you alread adjoined $sqrt2$. Just what the doctor ordered! We can use $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt2)/2$ as a primitive third root of unity. You are invited to verify the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ just to remove any doubts!



    To finish off we recall the fact that if in an abelian group the element $a$ has order $m$, the element $b$ has order $n$, and $gcd(m,n)=1$, then the product $ab$ has order $mn$. In the present case we observe that $gcd(4,3)=1$, and thus may fully expect that
    $$
    zeta_4zeta_3=2cdotleft(frac{-1+sqrt2}2right)=-1+sqrt2
    $$

    must have order twelve.





    You get the other primitive roots of order twelve by using different combinations of $zeta_4=pm2$ and $zeta_3=(-1pmsqrt{-3})/2$.





    I leave it as an extra exercise to construct an eighth root of unity in the same way,
    using the corresponding complex root of unity
    $$zeta_8=cosfracpi4+isinfracpi4=frac{1+i}{sqrt2}$$
    as a model.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      0












      $begingroup$

      I'm not positive about what exactly you want to do, but the following may fit.



      In $Bbb{F}_5$ the element $2$ is a primitive fourth root of unity. Let's record this fact in the form $zeta_4=2$, $zeta_4^4=1$.



      Remember how in the field of complex numbers $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt{-3})/2$ is a primitive third root of unity? You should check that the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ only depends on that form of the number. Basically because it is a zero of $x^2+x+1=0$ (quadratic formula!), and $x^3-1=(x-1)(x^2+x+1)$. This means that if we can locate an element serving in the role of $sqrt{-3}$, then we can also find a third root of unity (barring the exceptional that the recipe yields $zeta_3=1$, but that happens only in characteristic three so does not concern us).



      A point is that in $Bbb{F}_5$ we have $-3=2$. Therefore a square root of $2$ will also be a square root of $-3$. To get the extension $Bbb{F}_{25}$ you alread adjoined $sqrt2$. Just what the doctor ordered! We can use $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt2)/2$ as a primitive third root of unity. You are invited to verify the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ just to remove any doubts!



      To finish off we recall the fact that if in an abelian group the element $a$ has order $m$, the element $b$ has order $n$, and $gcd(m,n)=1$, then the product $ab$ has order $mn$. In the present case we observe that $gcd(4,3)=1$, and thus may fully expect that
      $$
      zeta_4zeta_3=2cdotleft(frac{-1+sqrt2}2right)=-1+sqrt2
      $$

      must have order twelve.





      You get the other primitive roots of order twelve by using different combinations of $zeta_4=pm2$ and $zeta_3=(-1pmsqrt{-3})/2$.





      I leave it as an extra exercise to construct an eighth root of unity in the same way,
      using the corresponding complex root of unity
      $$zeta_8=cosfracpi4+isinfracpi4=frac{1+i}{sqrt2}$$
      as a model.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        I'm not positive about what exactly you want to do, but the following may fit.



        In $Bbb{F}_5$ the element $2$ is a primitive fourth root of unity. Let's record this fact in the form $zeta_4=2$, $zeta_4^4=1$.



        Remember how in the field of complex numbers $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt{-3})/2$ is a primitive third root of unity? You should check that the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ only depends on that form of the number. Basically because it is a zero of $x^2+x+1=0$ (quadratic formula!), and $x^3-1=(x-1)(x^2+x+1)$. This means that if we can locate an element serving in the role of $sqrt{-3}$, then we can also find a third root of unity (barring the exceptional that the recipe yields $zeta_3=1$, but that happens only in characteristic three so does not concern us).



        A point is that in $Bbb{F}_5$ we have $-3=2$. Therefore a square root of $2$ will also be a square root of $-3$. To get the extension $Bbb{F}_{25}$ you alread adjoined $sqrt2$. Just what the doctor ordered! We can use $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt2)/2$ as a primitive third root of unity. You are invited to verify the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ just to remove any doubts!



        To finish off we recall the fact that if in an abelian group the element $a$ has order $m$, the element $b$ has order $n$, and $gcd(m,n)=1$, then the product $ab$ has order $mn$. In the present case we observe that $gcd(4,3)=1$, and thus may fully expect that
        $$
        zeta_4zeta_3=2cdotleft(frac{-1+sqrt2}2right)=-1+sqrt2
        $$

        must have order twelve.





        You get the other primitive roots of order twelve by using different combinations of $zeta_4=pm2$ and $zeta_3=(-1pmsqrt{-3})/2$.





        I leave it as an extra exercise to construct an eighth root of unity in the same way,
        using the corresponding complex root of unity
        $$zeta_8=cosfracpi4+isinfracpi4=frac{1+i}{sqrt2}$$
        as a model.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        I'm not positive about what exactly you want to do, but the following may fit.



        In $Bbb{F}_5$ the element $2$ is a primitive fourth root of unity. Let's record this fact in the form $zeta_4=2$, $zeta_4^4=1$.



        Remember how in the field of complex numbers $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt{-3})/2$ is a primitive third root of unity? You should check that the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ only depends on that form of the number. Basically because it is a zero of $x^2+x+1=0$ (quadratic formula!), and $x^3-1=(x-1)(x^2+x+1)$. This means that if we can locate an element serving in the role of $sqrt{-3}$, then we can also find a third root of unity (barring the exceptional that the recipe yields $zeta_3=1$, but that happens only in characteristic three so does not concern us).



        A point is that in $Bbb{F}_5$ we have $-3=2$. Therefore a square root of $2$ will also be a square root of $-3$. To get the extension $Bbb{F}_{25}$ you alread adjoined $sqrt2$. Just what the doctor ordered! We can use $zeta_3=(-1+sqrt2)/2$ as a primitive third root of unity. You are invited to verify the relation $zeta_3^3=1$ just to remove any doubts!



        To finish off we recall the fact that if in an abelian group the element $a$ has order $m$, the element $b$ has order $n$, and $gcd(m,n)=1$, then the product $ab$ has order $mn$. In the present case we observe that $gcd(4,3)=1$, and thus may fully expect that
        $$
        zeta_4zeta_3=2cdotleft(frac{-1+sqrt2}2right)=-1+sqrt2
        $$

        must have order twelve.





        You get the other primitive roots of order twelve by using different combinations of $zeta_4=pm2$ and $zeta_3=(-1pmsqrt{-3})/2$.





        I leave it as an extra exercise to construct an eighth root of unity in the same way,
        using the corresponding complex root of unity
        $$zeta_8=cosfracpi4+isinfracpi4=frac{1+i}{sqrt2}$$
        as a model.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Dec 24 '18 at 4:17









        Jyrki LahtonenJyrki Lahtonen

        109k13169374




        109k13169374






























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