Divisor in $mathbb{C}[X]$ $implies$ divisor in $mathbb{R}[X]$?












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let $P in mathbb{R}[X]$ be a real polynomial divisible by a polynomial $Q in mathbb{R}[X]$
in $mathbb{C}[X]$. How can I easily show that $P$ is also divisible by $Q$ in $mathbb{R}[X]$?



A simple argument without using higher algebraic theorems is desirable. If I could use instruments of higher algebra, the exercise I have to do in whole would be done in two lines. But I'm not allowed to use. I think there would be an easy argument which I can't see yet because of my mental fogginess that I have sometimes.



Thank you beforehand.










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    3












    $begingroup$


    let $P in mathbb{R}[X]$ be a real polynomial divisible by a polynomial $Q in mathbb{R}[X]$
    in $mathbb{C}[X]$. How can I easily show that $P$ is also divisible by $Q$ in $mathbb{R}[X]$?



    A simple argument without using higher algebraic theorems is desirable. If I could use instruments of higher algebra, the exercise I have to do in whole would be done in two lines. But I'm not allowed to use. I think there would be an easy argument which I can't see yet because of my mental fogginess that I have sometimes.



    Thank you beforehand.










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      3












      3








      3


      2



      $begingroup$


      let $P in mathbb{R}[X]$ be a real polynomial divisible by a polynomial $Q in mathbb{R}[X]$
      in $mathbb{C}[X]$. How can I easily show that $P$ is also divisible by $Q$ in $mathbb{R}[X]$?



      A simple argument without using higher algebraic theorems is desirable. If I could use instruments of higher algebra, the exercise I have to do in whole would be done in two lines. But I'm not allowed to use. I think there would be an easy argument which I can't see yet because of my mental fogginess that I have sometimes.



      Thank you beforehand.










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      let $P in mathbb{R}[X]$ be a real polynomial divisible by a polynomial $Q in mathbb{R}[X]$
      in $mathbb{C}[X]$. How can I easily show that $P$ is also divisible by $Q$ in $mathbb{R}[X]$?



      A simple argument without using higher algebraic theorems is desirable. If I could use instruments of higher algebra, the exercise I have to do in whole would be done in two lines. But I'm not allowed to use. I think there would be an easy argument which I can't see yet because of my mental fogginess that I have sometimes.



      Thank you beforehand.







      polynomials divisibility






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      edited Apr 22 '14 at 14:21









      Siminore

      30.4k33368




      30.4k33368










      asked Apr 22 '14 at 14:18









      user144912user144912

      161




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          4 Answers
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          7












          $begingroup$

          The division algorithm uses only the field operations on the coefficients of the polynomials. If $P$ and $Q$ have real coefficients, all the computations take place in $mathbb{R}$; so, if $P=QR$, then $Rinmathbb{R}[X]$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            I think this is the best way to see this. This works just the same in more general cases, for example when $mathbb{C}$ and $mathbb{R}$ is replaced by any field extension $E/F$.
            $endgroup$
            – spin
            Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @spin Yes, and it's quite useful when dealing with algebraic extensions.
            $endgroup$
            – egreg
            Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






          • 1




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            Alternatively, using division with remainder in $mathbb R[X]$, we have $P=QR+S$ with $Q,Sinmathbb R[X]$ and $deg S<deg R$. Then if $Rmid P$ in $mathbb C[X]$, we conclude $Rmid S$, hence $S=0$ or $deg Sge deg R$.
            $endgroup$
            – Hagen von Eitzen
            Apr 22 '14 at 14:48










          • $begingroup$
            @HagenvonEitzen It's not “alternative”: the uniqueness of the remainder immediately forces $S=0$, because $P=QR+S$ is also a correct division in $mathbb{C}[X]$.
            $endgroup$
            – egreg
            Apr 22 '14 at 14:52












          • $begingroup$
            @egreg Yes, I only wanted to put this as an alternate formulation, not alternate argument.
            $endgroup$
            – Hagen von Eitzen
            Apr 22 '14 at 15:23



















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          Say you have $P = QR$ where $R in mathbb{C}[X]$. Then $overline{P} = overline{QR} Rightarrow P = Q bar R$ (this is complex conjugation). If $Q$ is the zero polynomial, then so is $P$ and you are done. Otherwise, there is an infinite number of points $x in mathbb{R}$ where $Q(x)$ is nonzero, and for every such $x$, $bar{R}(x) = frac{bar P(x)}{bar Q(x)} = frac{P(x)}{Q(x)} = R(x)$. The two polynomials $R, bar{R}$ agree on an infinite number of points and are therefore equal. This means that $R$ has real coefficients, and so $Q$ divides $P$ in $mathbb{R}[X]$.





          More generally the technique I used works for any Galois extension. Suppose $K subset F$ is a Galois extension, and that $Q neq 0$ divides $P$ in $F[X]$, ie $P = QR$ with $R in F[X]$, $P, Q in K[X]$. Then for every $g in operatorname{Gal}(F/K)$, $P = Q R = g(P) = g(Q) g(R) = Q g(R)$ (where $g(P)$ is the polynomial where you apply $g$ to every coefficient). Since $Q$ is nonzero and $F[X]$ is an integral domain, it follows that $g(R) = R$ for all $g$, and therefore all the coefficients of $R$ are in $K$ (by general Galois theory).






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          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Doesn't $QR = Q bar R$ simply imply $R = bar R$ (for $Q neq 0$)?
            $endgroup$
            – user10676
            Apr 22 '14 at 14:50












          • $begingroup$
            It isn't as simple as one might think, because $mathbb{R}[X]$ is just an (euclidean) ring and not a field which means you can't divide. But I see now the uniqueness of the remainder works well.
            $endgroup$
            – user144912
            Apr 22 '14 at 15:01












          • $begingroup$
            @user144912 I think he is right, because $mathbb{C}[X]$ and $mathbb{R}[X]$ are domain (? I'm not sure about the english terminology), but if $ab=ac$ with $a neq 0$ then $b=c$, no ?
            $endgroup$
            – yago
            Apr 22 '14 at 15:07










          • $begingroup$
            @user10676: For some reason I forgot that $K[X]$ is an integral domain for any field...
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            – Najib Idrissi
            Apr 22 '14 at 15:17










          • $begingroup$
            @Yann Hadaoui: Yes, he ist right. Forget what I said in the comment before. Multiplication with $Q$ is an injective endomorphism in $(mathbb{C}[X],+)$, which allows to reduce.
            $endgroup$
            – user144912
            Apr 22 '14 at 15:33





















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          Hint $ $ It follows from the uniqueness of the quotient (and remainder) in the division algorithm (which is the same in $,Bbb R[x],$ and $,Bbb C[x],,$ using the polynomial degree as the Euclidean "size").



          Therefore, since dividing $,P,$ by $,Q,$ in $,Bbb C[x],$ leaves remainder $,0,,$ by uniqueness, the remainder must also be $,0,$ in $,Bbb R[x].,$ Thus $ Qmid P, $ in $,Bbb C[x] $ $Rightarrow$ $ Q | P $ in $,Bbb R[x].$



          This is but one of many examples of the power of uniqueness theorems for proving equalities.



          Remark $ $ More generally, $ $ it follows from persistence of Euclidean gcds in extension domains since, by Bezout, the gcd may be specified (up to unit factor) via the solvability of a system of (linear) equations over $D,,$ and such solutions persist in extension domains of $D,,$ i.e. roots in $D,$ persist as roots in $Esupset D.,$ Note $, Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb R[x],$ iff their gcd $,(Q,P) = AQ+BP:$ has smaller degree than $,Q.,$ If so, the Bezout equation persists as a witness that $,Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb C[x]$.



          Such uniqueness is a characteristic property of polynomial domains over fields. Namely, if $D$ is a Euclidean domain with division algorithm having unique quotient and remainder, then either $D$ is a field or $D = F[x]$ for a field $F.,$ For proofs see e.g.



          M. A. Jodeit, Uniqueness in the division algorithm, Amer. Math. Monthly 74 (1967), 835-836.



          T. S. Rhai, A characterization of polynomial domains over a field, Amer. Math. Monthly 69 (1962), 984-986.






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            This can also be done by contradiction as follows:



            Suppose that $P=QR$ where $P$ and $Q$ are in $mathbb{R}[x]$ and $R$ is in $mathbb{C}[x]setminusmathbb{R}[x]$. Let us write
            $$
            R=sum_{i=0}^kr_ix^i.
            $$

            Since $R$ is not a polynomial with real coefficients, there is some $r_i$ which is not real. Let $j$ be the largest index where $r_i$ is not real. Then,
            $$
            R=left(sum_{i=0}^{j-1}r_ix^iright)+r_jx^j+left(sum_{i=j+1}^kr_ix^iright).
            $$

            I claim that, for $x$ sufficiently large, $R(x)$ is not a real number.




            • For any real number $x$, the third summand is real since all of the coefficients are real.


            • For all nonzero real numbers $x$, $r_jx^j$ is not a real number since $r_j$ is not real.


            • For all real numbers $x$ sufficiently large, the first summand is less than the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$. For a sketch, let $r$ be the maximum of the absolute values of the $r_i$'s. Then, using a geometric sum, the absolute value of the first sum is bounded from above by
              $$
              rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right).
              $$

              A short calculation will show that if $x$ is sufficiently large,
              $$
              rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right)<Im(r_j)x^j.
              $$



            Combining all of this results in the conclusion that the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$ cannot fully cancel, so $R(x)$ is not real.



            This leads directly to our contradiction. After fixing $x$ sufficiently large from above, note that $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real numbers (and we may choose $x$ sufficiently large so that these are nonzero). We then have $P(x)=Q(x)R(x)$, but it is impossible for this equality to hold while $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real, but $R(x)$ is not.






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              4 Answers
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              4 Answers
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              7












              $begingroup$

              The division algorithm uses only the field operations on the coefficients of the polynomials. If $P$ and $Q$ have real coefficients, all the computations take place in $mathbb{R}$; so, if $P=QR$, then $Rinmathbb{R}[X]$.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                I think this is the best way to see this. This works just the same in more general cases, for example when $mathbb{C}$ and $mathbb{R}$ is replaced by any field extension $E/F$.
                $endgroup$
                – spin
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @spin Yes, and it's quite useful when dealing with algebraic extensions.
                $endgroup$
                – egreg
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Alternatively, using division with remainder in $mathbb R[X]$, we have $P=QR+S$ with $Q,Sinmathbb R[X]$ and $deg S<deg R$. Then if $Rmid P$ in $mathbb C[X]$, we conclude $Rmid S$, hence $S=0$ or $deg Sge deg R$.
                $endgroup$
                – Hagen von Eitzen
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:48










              • $begingroup$
                @HagenvonEitzen It's not “alternative”: the uniqueness of the remainder immediately forces $S=0$, because $P=QR+S$ is also a correct division in $mathbb{C}[X]$.
                $endgroup$
                – egreg
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:52












              • $begingroup$
                @egreg Yes, I only wanted to put this as an alternate formulation, not alternate argument.
                $endgroup$
                – Hagen von Eitzen
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:23
















              7












              $begingroup$

              The division algorithm uses only the field operations on the coefficients of the polynomials. If $P$ and $Q$ have real coefficients, all the computations take place in $mathbb{R}$; so, if $P=QR$, then $Rinmathbb{R}[X]$.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                I think this is the best way to see this. This works just the same in more general cases, for example when $mathbb{C}$ and $mathbb{R}$ is replaced by any field extension $E/F$.
                $endgroup$
                – spin
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @spin Yes, and it's quite useful when dealing with algebraic extensions.
                $endgroup$
                – egreg
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Alternatively, using division with remainder in $mathbb R[X]$, we have $P=QR+S$ with $Q,Sinmathbb R[X]$ and $deg S<deg R$. Then if $Rmid P$ in $mathbb C[X]$, we conclude $Rmid S$, hence $S=0$ or $deg Sge deg R$.
                $endgroup$
                – Hagen von Eitzen
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:48










              • $begingroup$
                @HagenvonEitzen It's not “alternative”: the uniqueness of the remainder immediately forces $S=0$, because $P=QR+S$ is also a correct division in $mathbb{C}[X]$.
                $endgroup$
                – egreg
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:52












              • $begingroup$
                @egreg Yes, I only wanted to put this as an alternate formulation, not alternate argument.
                $endgroup$
                – Hagen von Eitzen
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:23














              7












              7








              7





              $begingroup$

              The division algorithm uses only the field operations on the coefficients of the polynomials. If $P$ and $Q$ have real coefficients, all the computations take place in $mathbb{R}$; so, if $P=QR$, then $Rinmathbb{R}[X]$.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              The division algorithm uses only the field operations on the coefficients of the polynomials. If $P$ and $Q$ have real coefficients, all the computations take place in $mathbb{R}$; so, if $P=QR$, then $Rinmathbb{R}[X]$.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Apr 22 '14 at 14:37









              egregegreg

              182k1486204




              182k1486204












              • $begingroup$
                I think this is the best way to see this. This works just the same in more general cases, for example when $mathbb{C}$ and $mathbb{R}$ is replaced by any field extension $E/F$.
                $endgroup$
                – spin
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @spin Yes, and it's quite useful when dealing with algebraic extensions.
                $endgroup$
                – egreg
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Alternatively, using division with remainder in $mathbb R[X]$, we have $P=QR+S$ with $Q,Sinmathbb R[X]$ and $deg S<deg R$. Then if $Rmid P$ in $mathbb C[X]$, we conclude $Rmid S$, hence $S=0$ or $deg Sge deg R$.
                $endgroup$
                – Hagen von Eitzen
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:48










              • $begingroup$
                @HagenvonEitzen It's not “alternative”: the uniqueness of the remainder immediately forces $S=0$, because $P=QR+S$ is also a correct division in $mathbb{C}[X]$.
                $endgroup$
                – egreg
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:52












              • $begingroup$
                @egreg Yes, I only wanted to put this as an alternate formulation, not alternate argument.
                $endgroup$
                – Hagen von Eitzen
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:23


















              • $begingroup$
                I think this is the best way to see this. This works just the same in more general cases, for example when $mathbb{C}$ and $mathbb{R}$ is replaced by any field extension $E/F$.
                $endgroup$
                – spin
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @spin Yes, and it's quite useful when dealing with algebraic extensions.
                $endgroup$
                – egreg
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:40






              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Alternatively, using division with remainder in $mathbb R[X]$, we have $P=QR+S$ with $Q,Sinmathbb R[X]$ and $deg S<deg R$. Then if $Rmid P$ in $mathbb C[X]$, we conclude $Rmid S$, hence $S=0$ or $deg Sge deg R$.
                $endgroup$
                – Hagen von Eitzen
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:48










              • $begingroup$
                @HagenvonEitzen It's not “alternative”: the uniqueness of the remainder immediately forces $S=0$, because $P=QR+S$ is also a correct division in $mathbb{C}[X]$.
                $endgroup$
                – egreg
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:52












              • $begingroup$
                @egreg Yes, I only wanted to put this as an alternate formulation, not alternate argument.
                $endgroup$
                – Hagen von Eitzen
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:23
















              $begingroup$
              I think this is the best way to see this. This works just the same in more general cases, for example when $mathbb{C}$ and $mathbb{R}$ is replaced by any field extension $E/F$.
              $endgroup$
              – spin
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:40




              $begingroup$
              I think this is the best way to see this. This works just the same in more general cases, for example when $mathbb{C}$ and $mathbb{R}$ is replaced by any field extension $E/F$.
              $endgroup$
              – spin
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:40




              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              @spin Yes, and it's quite useful when dealing with algebraic extensions.
              $endgroup$
              – egreg
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:40




              $begingroup$
              @spin Yes, and it's quite useful when dealing with algebraic extensions.
              $endgroup$
              – egreg
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:40




              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              Alternatively, using division with remainder in $mathbb R[X]$, we have $P=QR+S$ with $Q,Sinmathbb R[X]$ and $deg S<deg R$. Then if $Rmid P$ in $mathbb C[X]$, we conclude $Rmid S$, hence $S=0$ or $deg Sge deg R$.
              $endgroup$
              – Hagen von Eitzen
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:48




              $begingroup$
              Alternatively, using division with remainder in $mathbb R[X]$, we have $P=QR+S$ with $Q,Sinmathbb R[X]$ and $deg S<deg R$. Then if $Rmid P$ in $mathbb C[X]$, we conclude $Rmid S$, hence $S=0$ or $deg Sge deg R$.
              $endgroup$
              – Hagen von Eitzen
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:48












              $begingroup$
              @HagenvonEitzen It's not “alternative”: the uniqueness of the remainder immediately forces $S=0$, because $P=QR+S$ is also a correct division in $mathbb{C}[X]$.
              $endgroup$
              – egreg
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:52






              $begingroup$
              @HagenvonEitzen It's not “alternative”: the uniqueness of the remainder immediately forces $S=0$, because $P=QR+S$ is also a correct division in $mathbb{C}[X]$.
              $endgroup$
              – egreg
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:52














              $begingroup$
              @egreg Yes, I only wanted to put this as an alternate formulation, not alternate argument.
              $endgroup$
              – Hagen von Eitzen
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:23




              $begingroup$
              @egreg Yes, I only wanted to put this as an alternate formulation, not alternate argument.
              $endgroup$
              – Hagen von Eitzen
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:23











              6












              $begingroup$

              Say you have $P = QR$ where $R in mathbb{C}[X]$. Then $overline{P} = overline{QR} Rightarrow P = Q bar R$ (this is complex conjugation). If $Q$ is the zero polynomial, then so is $P$ and you are done. Otherwise, there is an infinite number of points $x in mathbb{R}$ where $Q(x)$ is nonzero, and for every such $x$, $bar{R}(x) = frac{bar P(x)}{bar Q(x)} = frac{P(x)}{Q(x)} = R(x)$. The two polynomials $R, bar{R}$ agree on an infinite number of points and are therefore equal. This means that $R$ has real coefficients, and so $Q$ divides $P$ in $mathbb{R}[X]$.





              More generally the technique I used works for any Galois extension. Suppose $K subset F$ is a Galois extension, and that $Q neq 0$ divides $P$ in $F[X]$, ie $P = QR$ with $R in F[X]$, $P, Q in K[X]$. Then for every $g in operatorname{Gal}(F/K)$, $P = Q R = g(P) = g(Q) g(R) = Q g(R)$ (where $g(P)$ is the polynomial where you apply $g$ to every coefficient). Since $Q$ is nonzero and $F[X]$ is an integral domain, it follows that $g(R) = R$ for all $g$, and therefore all the coefficients of $R$ are in $K$ (by general Galois theory).






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$









              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Doesn't $QR = Q bar R$ simply imply $R = bar R$ (for $Q neq 0$)?
                $endgroup$
                – user10676
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:50












              • $begingroup$
                It isn't as simple as one might think, because $mathbb{R}[X]$ is just an (euclidean) ring and not a field which means you can't divide. But I see now the uniqueness of the remainder works well.
                $endgroup$
                – user144912
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:01












              • $begingroup$
                @user144912 I think he is right, because $mathbb{C}[X]$ and $mathbb{R}[X]$ are domain (? I'm not sure about the english terminology), but if $ab=ac$ with $a neq 0$ then $b=c$, no ?
                $endgroup$
                – yago
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:07










              • $begingroup$
                @user10676: For some reason I forgot that $K[X]$ is an integral domain for any field...
                $endgroup$
                – Najib Idrissi
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:17










              • $begingroup$
                @Yann Hadaoui: Yes, he ist right. Forget what I said in the comment before. Multiplication with $Q$ is an injective endomorphism in $(mathbb{C}[X],+)$, which allows to reduce.
                $endgroup$
                – user144912
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:33


















              6












              $begingroup$

              Say you have $P = QR$ where $R in mathbb{C}[X]$. Then $overline{P} = overline{QR} Rightarrow P = Q bar R$ (this is complex conjugation). If $Q$ is the zero polynomial, then so is $P$ and you are done. Otherwise, there is an infinite number of points $x in mathbb{R}$ where $Q(x)$ is nonzero, and for every such $x$, $bar{R}(x) = frac{bar P(x)}{bar Q(x)} = frac{P(x)}{Q(x)} = R(x)$. The two polynomials $R, bar{R}$ agree on an infinite number of points and are therefore equal. This means that $R$ has real coefficients, and so $Q$ divides $P$ in $mathbb{R}[X]$.





              More generally the technique I used works for any Galois extension. Suppose $K subset F$ is a Galois extension, and that $Q neq 0$ divides $P$ in $F[X]$, ie $P = QR$ with $R in F[X]$, $P, Q in K[X]$. Then for every $g in operatorname{Gal}(F/K)$, $P = Q R = g(P) = g(Q) g(R) = Q g(R)$ (where $g(P)$ is the polynomial where you apply $g$ to every coefficient). Since $Q$ is nonzero and $F[X]$ is an integral domain, it follows that $g(R) = R$ for all $g$, and therefore all the coefficients of $R$ are in $K$ (by general Galois theory).






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$









              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Doesn't $QR = Q bar R$ simply imply $R = bar R$ (for $Q neq 0$)?
                $endgroup$
                – user10676
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:50












              • $begingroup$
                It isn't as simple as one might think, because $mathbb{R}[X]$ is just an (euclidean) ring and not a field which means you can't divide. But I see now the uniqueness of the remainder works well.
                $endgroup$
                – user144912
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:01












              • $begingroup$
                @user144912 I think he is right, because $mathbb{C}[X]$ and $mathbb{R}[X]$ are domain (? I'm not sure about the english terminology), but if $ab=ac$ with $a neq 0$ then $b=c$, no ?
                $endgroup$
                – yago
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:07










              • $begingroup$
                @user10676: For some reason I forgot that $K[X]$ is an integral domain for any field...
                $endgroup$
                – Najib Idrissi
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:17










              • $begingroup$
                @Yann Hadaoui: Yes, he ist right. Forget what I said in the comment before. Multiplication with $Q$ is an injective endomorphism in $(mathbb{C}[X],+)$, which allows to reduce.
                $endgroup$
                – user144912
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:33
















              6












              6








              6





              $begingroup$

              Say you have $P = QR$ where $R in mathbb{C}[X]$. Then $overline{P} = overline{QR} Rightarrow P = Q bar R$ (this is complex conjugation). If $Q$ is the zero polynomial, then so is $P$ and you are done. Otherwise, there is an infinite number of points $x in mathbb{R}$ where $Q(x)$ is nonzero, and for every such $x$, $bar{R}(x) = frac{bar P(x)}{bar Q(x)} = frac{P(x)}{Q(x)} = R(x)$. The two polynomials $R, bar{R}$ agree on an infinite number of points and are therefore equal. This means that $R$ has real coefficients, and so $Q$ divides $P$ in $mathbb{R}[X]$.





              More generally the technique I used works for any Galois extension. Suppose $K subset F$ is a Galois extension, and that $Q neq 0$ divides $P$ in $F[X]$, ie $P = QR$ with $R in F[X]$, $P, Q in K[X]$. Then for every $g in operatorname{Gal}(F/K)$, $P = Q R = g(P) = g(Q) g(R) = Q g(R)$ (where $g(P)$ is the polynomial where you apply $g$ to every coefficient). Since $Q$ is nonzero and $F[X]$ is an integral domain, it follows that $g(R) = R$ for all $g$, and therefore all the coefficients of $R$ are in $K$ (by general Galois theory).






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              Say you have $P = QR$ where $R in mathbb{C}[X]$. Then $overline{P} = overline{QR} Rightarrow P = Q bar R$ (this is complex conjugation). If $Q$ is the zero polynomial, then so is $P$ and you are done. Otherwise, there is an infinite number of points $x in mathbb{R}$ where $Q(x)$ is nonzero, and for every such $x$, $bar{R}(x) = frac{bar P(x)}{bar Q(x)} = frac{P(x)}{Q(x)} = R(x)$. The two polynomials $R, bar{R}$ agree on an infinite number of points and are therefore equal. This means that $R$ has real coefficients, and so $Q$ divides $P$ in $mathbb{R}[X]$.





              More generally the technique I used works for any Galois extension. Suppose $K subset F$ is a Galois extension, and that $Q neq 0$ divides $P$ in $F[X]$, ie $P = QR$ with $R in F[X]$, $P, Q in K[X]$. Then for every $g in operatorname{Gal}(F/K)$, $P = Q R = g(P) = g(Q) g(R) = Q g(R)$ (where $g(P)$ is the polynomial where you apply $g$ to every coefficient). Since $Q$ is nonzero and $F[X]$ is an integral domain, it follows that $g(R) = R$ for all $g$, and therefore all the coefficients of $R$ are in $K$ (by general Galois theory).







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited Apr 22 '14 at 15:15

























              answered Apr 22 '14 at 14:25









              Najib IdrissiNajib Idrissi

              41.4k471139




              41.4k471139








              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Doesn't $QR = Q bar R$ simply imply $R = bar R$ (for $Q neq 0$)?
                $endgroup$
                – user10676
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:50












              • $begingroup$
                It isn't as simple as one might think, because $mathbb{R}[X]$ is just an (euclidean) ring and not a field which means you can't divide. But I see now the uniqueness of the remainder works well.
                $endgroup$
                – user144912
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:01












              • $begingroup$
                @user144912 I think he is right, because $mathbb{C}[X]$ and $mathbb{R}[X]$ are domain (? I'm not sure about the english terminology), but if $ab=ac$ with $a neq 0$ then $b=c$, no ?
                $endgroup$
                – yago
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:07










              • $begingroup$
                @user10676: For some reason I forgot that $K[X]$ is an integral domain for any field...
                $endgroup$
                – Najib Idrissi
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:17










              • $begingroup$
                @Yann Hadaoui: Yes, he ist right. Forget what I said in the comment before. Multiplication with $Q$ is an injective endomorphism in $(mathbb{C}[X],+)$, which allows to reduce.
                $endgroup$
                – user144912
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:33
















              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Doesn't $QR = Q bar R$ simply imply $R = bar R$ (for $Q neq 0$)?
                $endgroup$
                – user10676
                Apr 22 '14 at 14:50












              • $begingroup$
                It isn't as simple as one might think, because $mathbb{R}[X]$ is just an (euclidean) ring and not a field which means you can't divide. But I see now the uniqueness of the remainder works well.
                $endgroup$
                – user144912
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:01












              • $begingroup$
                @user144912 I think he is right, because $mathbb{C}[X]$ and $mathbb{R}[X]$ are domain (? I'm not sure about the english terminology), but if $ab=ac$ with $a neq 0$ then $b=c$, no ?
                $endgroup$
                – yago
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:07










              • $begingroup$
                @user10676: For some reason I forgot that $K[X]$ is an integral domain for any field...
                $endgroup$
                – Najib Idrissi
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:17










              • $begingroup$
                @Yann Hadaoui: Yes, he ist right. Forget what I said in the comment before. Multiplication with $Q$ is an injective endomorphism in $(mathbb{C}[X],+)$, which allows to reduce.
                $endgroup$
                – user144912
                Apr 22 '14 at 15:33










              2




              2




              $begingroup$
              Doesn't $QR = Q bar R$ simply imply $R = bar R$ (for $Q neq 0$)?
              $endgroup$
              – user10676
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:50






              $begingroup$
              Doesn't $QR = Q bar R$ simply imply $R = bar R$ (for $Q neq 0$)?
              $endgroup$
              – user10676
              Apr 22 '14 at 14:50














              $begingroup$
              It isn't as simple as one might think, because $mathbb{R}[X]$ is just an (euclidean) ring and not a field which means you can't divide. But I see now the uniqueness of the remainder works well.
              $endgroup$
              – user144912
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:01






              $begingroup$
              It isn't as simple as one might think, because $mathbb{R}[X]$ is just an (euclidean) ring and not a field which means you can't divide. But I see now the uniqueness of the remainder works well.
              $endgroup$
              – user144912
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:01














              $begingroup$
              @user144912 I think he is right, because $mathbb{C}[X]$ and $mathbb{R}[X]$ are domain (? I'm not sure about the english terminology), but if $ab=ac$ with $a neq 0$ then $b=c$, no ?
              $endgroup$
              – yago
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:07




              $begingroup$
              @user144912 I think he is right, because $mathbb{C}[X]$ and $mathbb{R}[X]$ are domain (? I'm not sure about the english terminology), but if $ab=ac$ with $a neq 0$ then $b=c$, no ?
              $endgroup$
              – yago
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:07












              $begingroup$
              @user10676: For some reason I forgot that $K[X]$ is an integral domain for any field...
              $endgroup$
              – Najib Idrissi
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:17




              $begingroup$
              @user10676: For some reason I forgot that $K[X]$ is an integral domain for any field...
              $endgroup$
              – Najib Idrissi
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:17












              $begingroup$
              @Yann Hadaoui: Yes, he ist right. Forget what I said in the comment before. Multiplication with $Q$ is an injective endomorphism in $(mathbb{C}[X],+)$, which allows to reduce.
              $endgroup$
              – user144912
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:33






              $begingroup$
              @Yann Hadaoui: Yes, he ist right. Forget what I said in the comment before. Multiplication with $Q$ is an injective endomorphism in $(mathbb{C}[X],+)$, which allows to reduce.
              $endgroup$
              – user144912
              Apr 22 '14 at 15:33













              2












              $begingroup$

              Hint $ $ It follows from the uniqueness of the quotient (and remainder) in the division algorithm (which is the same in $,Bbb R[x],$ and $,Bbb C[x],,$ using the polynomial degree as the Euclidean "size").



              Therefore, since dividing $,P,$ by $,Q,$ in $,Bbb C[x],$ leaves remainder $,0,,$ by uniqueness, the remainder must also be $,0,$ in $,Bbb R[x].,$ Thus $ Qmid P, $ in $,Bbb C[x] $ $Rightarrow$ $ Q | P $ in $,Bbb R[x].$



              This is but one of many examples of the power of uniqueness theorems for proving equalities.



              Remark $ $ More generally, $ $ it follows from persistence of Euclidean gcds in extension domains since, by Bezout, the gcd may be specified (up to unit factor) via the solvability of a system of (linear) equations over $D,,$ and such solutions persist in extension domains of $D,,$ i.e. roots in $D,$ persist as roots in $Esupset D.,$ Note $, Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb R[x],$ iff their gcd $,(Q,P) = AQ+BP:$ has smaller degree than $,Q.,$ If so, the Bezout equation persists as a witness that $,Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb C[x]$.



              Such uniqueness is a characteristic property of polynomial domains over fields. Namely, if $D$ is a Euclidean domain with division algorithm having unique quotient and remainder, then either $D$ is a field or $D = F[x]$ for a field $F.,$ For proofs see e.g.



              M. A. Jodeit, Uniqueness in the division algorithm, Amer. Math. Monthly 74 (1967), 835-836.



              T. S. Rhai, A characterization of polynomial domains over a field, Amer. Math. Monthly 69 (1962), 984-986.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                2












                $begingroup$

                Hint $ $ It follows from the uniqueness of the quotient (and remainder) in the division algorithm (which is the same in $,Bbb R[x],$ and $,Bbb C[x],,$ using the polynomial degree as the Euclidean "size").



                Therefore, since dividing $,P,$ by $,Q,$ in $,Bbb C[x],$ leaves remainder $,0,,$ by uniqueness, the remainder must also be $,0,$ in $,Bbb R[x].,$ Thus $ Qmid P, $ in $,Bbb C[x] $ $Rightarrow$ $ Q | P $ in $,Bbb R[x].$



                This is but one of many examples of the power of uniqueness theorems for proving equalities.



                Remark $ $ More generally, $ $ it follows from persistence of Euclidean gcds in extension domains since, by Bezout, the gcd may be specified (up to unit factor) via the solvability of a system of (linear) equations over $D,,$ and such solutions persist in extension domains of $D,,$ i.e. roots in $D,$ persist as roots in $Esupset D.,$ Note $, Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb R[x],$ iff their gcd $,(Q,P) = AQ+BP:$ has smaller degree than $,Q.,$ If so, the Bezout equation persists as a witness that $,Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb C[x]$.



                Such uniqueness is a characteristic property of polynomial domains over fields. Namely, if $D$ is a Euclidean domain with division algorithm having unique quotient and remainder, then either $D$ is a field or $D = F[x]$ for a field $F.,$ For proofs see e.g.



                M. A. Jodeit, Uniqueness in the division algorithm, Amer. Math. Monthly 74 (1967), 835-836.



                T. S. Rhai, A characterization of polynomial domains over a field, Amer. Math. Monthly 69 (1962), 984-986.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  2












                  2








                  2





                  $begingroup$

                  Hint $ $ It follows from the uniqueness of the quotient (and remainder) in the division algorithm (which is the same in $,Bbb R[x],$ and $,Bbb C[x],,$ using the polynomial degree as the Euclidean "size").



                  Therefore, since dividing $,P,$ by $,Q,$ in $,Bbb C[x],$ leaves remainder $,0,,$ by uniqueness, the remainder must also be $,0,$ in $,Bbb R[x].,$ Thus $ Qmid P, $ in $,Bbb C[x] $ $Rightarrow$ $ Q | P $ in $,Bbb R[x].$



                  This is but one of many examples of the power of uniqueness theorems for proving equalities.



                  Remark $ $ More generally, $ $ it follows from persistence of Euclidean gcds in extension domains since, by Bezout, the gcd may be specified (up to unit factor) via the solvability of a system of (linear) equations over $D,,$ and such solutions persist in extension domains of $D,,$ i.e. roots in $D,$ persist as roots in $Esupset D.,$ Note $, Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb R[x],$ iff their gcd $,(Q,P) = AQ+BP:$ has smaller degree than $,Q.,$ If so, the Bezout equation persists as a witness that $,Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb C[x]$.



                  Such uniqueness is a characteristic property of polynomial domains over fields. Namely, if $D$ is a Euclidean domain with division algorithm having unique quotient and remainder, then either $D$ is a field or $D = F[x]$ for a field $F.,$ For proofs see e.g.



                  M. A. Jodeit, Uniqueness in the division algorithm, Amer. Math. Monthly 74 (1967), 835-836.



                  T. S. Rhai, A characterization of polynomial domains over a field, Amer. Math. Monthly 69 (1962), 984-986.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Hint $ $ It follows from the uniqueness of the quotient (and remainder) in the division algorithm (which is the same in $,Bbb R[x],$ and $,Bbb C[x],,$ using the polynomial degree as the Euclidean "size").



                  Therefore, since dividing $,P,$ by $,Q,$ in $,Bbb C[x],$ leaves remainder $,0,,$ by uniqueness, the remainder must also be $,0,$ in $,Bbb R[x].,$ Thus $ Qmid P, $ in $,Bbb C[x] $ $Rightarrow$ $ Q | P $ in $,Bbb R[x].$



                  This is but one of many examples of the power of uniqueness theorems for proving equalities.



                  Remark $ $ More generally, $ $ it follows from persistence of Euclidean gcds in extension domains since, by Bezout, the gcd may be specified (up to unit factor) via the solvability of a system of (linear) equations over $D,,$ and such solutions persist in extension domains of $D,,$ i.e. roots in $D,$ persist as roots in $Esupset D.,$ Note $, Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb R[x],$ iff their gcd $,(Q,P) = AQ+BP:$ has smaller degree than $,Q.,$ If so, the Bezout equation persists as a witness that $,Qnmid P,$ in $,Bbb C[x]$.



                  Such uniqueness is a characteristic property of polynomial domains over fields. Namely, if $D$ is a Euclidean domain with division algorithm having unique quotient and remainder, then either $D$ is a field or $D = F[x]$ for a field $F.,$ For proofs see e.g.



                  M. A. Jodeit, Uniqueness in the division algorithm, Amer. Math. Monthly 74 (1967), 835-836.



                  T. S. Rhai, A characterization of polynomial domains over a field, Amer. Math. Monthly 69 (1962), 984-986.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:21









                  Community

                  1




                  1










                  answered Apr 22 '14 at 14:51









                  Bill DubuqueBill Dubuque

                  211k29193646




                  211k29193646























                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      This can also be done by contradiction as follows:



                      Suppose that $P=QR$ where $P$ and $Q$ are in $mathbb{R}[x]$ and $R$ is in $mathbb{C}[x]setminusmathbb{R}[x]$. Let us write
                      $$
                      R=sum_{i=0}^kr_ix^i.
                      $$

                      Since $R$ is not a polynomial with real coefficients, there is some $r_i$ which is not real. Let $j$ be the largest index where $r_i$ is not real. Then,
                      $$
                      R=left(sum_{i=0}^{j-1}r_ix^iright)+r_jx^j+left(sum_{i=j+1}^kr_ix^iright).
                      $$

                      I claim that, for $x$ sufficiently large, $R(x)$ is not a real number.




                      • For any real number $x$, the third summand is real since all of the coefficients are real.


                      • For all nonzero real numbers $x$, $r_jx^j$ is not a real number since $r_j$ is not real.


                      • For all real numbers $x$ sufficiently large, the first summand is less than the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$. For a sketch, let $r$ be the maximum of the absolute values of the $r_i$'s. Then, using a geometric sum, the absolute value of the first sum is bounded from above by
                        $$
                        rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right).
                        $$

                        A short calculation will show that if $x$ is sufficiently large,
                        $$
                        rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right)<Im(r_j)x^j.
                        $$



                      Combining all of this results in the conclusion that the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$ cannot fully cancel, so $R(x)$ is not real.



                      This leads directly to our contradiction. After fixing $x$ sufficiently large from above, note that $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real numbers (and we may choose $x$ sufficiently large so that these are nonzero). We then have $P(x)=Q(x)R(x)$, but it is impossible for this equality to hold while $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real, but $R(x)$ is not.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$


















                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        This can also be done by contradiction as follows:



                        Suppose that $P=QR$ where $P$ and $Q$ are in $mathbb{R}[x]$ and $R$ is in $mathbb{C}[x]setminusmathbb{R}[x]$. Let us write
                        $$
                        R=sum_{i=0}^kr_ix^i.
                        $$

                        Since $R$ is not a polynomial with real coefficients, there is some $r_i$ which is not real. Let $j$ be the largest index where $r_i$ is not real. Then,
                        $$
                        R=left(sum_{i=0}^{j-1}r_ix^iright)+r_jx^j+left(sum_{i=j+1}^kr_ix^iright).
                        $$

                        I claim that, for $x$ sufficiently large, $R(x)$ is not a real number.




                        • For any real number $x$, the third summand is real since all of the coefficients are real.


                        • For all nonzero real numbers $x$, $r_jx^j$ is not a real number since $r_j$ is not real.


                        • For all real numbers $x$ sufficiently large, the first summand is less than the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$. For a sketch, let $r$ be the maximum of the absolute values of the $r_i$'s. Then, using a geometric sum, the absolute value of the first sum is bounded from above by
                          $$
                          rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right).
                          $$

                          A short calculation will show that if $x$ is sufficiently large,
                          $$
                          rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right)<Im(r_j)x^j.
                          $$



                        Combining all of this results in the conclusion that the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$ cannot fully cancel, so $R(x)$ is not real.



                        This leads directly to our contradiction. After fixing $x$ sufficiently large from above, note that $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real numbers (and we may choose $x$ sufficiently large so that these are nonzero). We then have $P(x)=Q(x)R(x)$, but it is impossible for this equality to hold while $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real, but $R(x)$ is not.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$
















                          0












                          0








                          0





                          $begingroup$

                          This can also be done by contradiction as follows:



                          Suppose that $P=QR$ where $P$ and $Q$ are in $mathbb{R}[x]$ and $R$ is in $mathbb{C}[x]setminusmathbb{R}[x]$. Let us write
                          $$
                          R=sum_{i=0}^kr_ix^i.
                          $$

                          Since $R$ is not a polynomial with real coefficients, there is some $r_i$ which is not real. Let $j$ be the largest index where $r_i$ is not real. Then,
                          $$
                          R=left(sum_{i=0}^{j-1}r_ix^iright)+r_jx^j+left(sum_{i=j+1}^kr_ix^iright).
                          $$

                          I claim that, for $x$ sufficiently large, $R(x)$ is not a real number.




                          • For any real number $x$, the third summand is real since all of the coefficients are real.


                          • For all nonzero real numbers $x$, $r_jx^j$ is not a real number since $r_j$ is not real.


                          • For all real numbers $x$ sufficiently large, the first summand is less than the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$. For a sketch, let $r$ be the maximum of the absolute values of the $r_i$'s. Then, using a geometric sum, the absolute value of the first sum is bounded from above by
                            $$
                            rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right).
                            $$

                            A short calculation will show that if $x$ is sufficiently large,
                            $$
                            rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right)<Im(r_j)x^j.
                            $$



                          Combining all of this results in the conclusion that the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$ cannot fully cancel, so $R(x)$ is not real.



                          This leads directly to our contradiction. After fixing $x$ sufficiently large from above, note that $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real numbers (and we may choose $x$ sufficiently large so that these are nonzero). We then have $P(x)=Q(x)R(x)$, but it is impossible for this equality to hold while $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real, but $R(x)$ is not.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          This can also be done by contradiction as follows:



                          Suppose that $P=QR$ where $P$ and $Q$ are in $mathbb{R}[x]$ and $R$ is in $mathbb{C}[x]setminusmathbb{R}[x]$. Let us write
                          $$
                          R=sum_{i=0}^kr_ix^i.
                          $$

                          Since $R$ is not a polynomial with real coefficients, there is some $r_i$ which is not real. Let $j$ be the largest index where $r_i$ is not real. Then,
                          $$
                          R=left(sum_{i=0}^{j-1}r_ix^iright)+r_jx^j+left(sum_{i=j+1}^kr_ix^iright).
                          $$

                          I claim that, for $x$ sufficiently large, $R(x)$ is not a real number.




                          • For any real number $x$, the third summand is real since all of the coefficients are real.


                          • For all nonzero real numbers $x$, $r_jx^j$ is not a real number since $r_j$ is not real.


                          • For all real numbers $x$ sufficiently large, the first summand is less than the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$. For a sketch, let $r$ be the maximum of the absolute values of the $r_i$'s. Then, using a geometric sum, the absolute value of the first sum is bounded from above by
                            $$
                            rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right).
                            $$

                            A short calculation will show that if $x$ is sufficiently large,
                            $$
                            rleft(frac{x^j-1}{x-1}right)<Im(r_j)x^j.
                            $$



                          Combining all of this results in the conclusion that the imaginary part of $r_jx^j$ cannot fully cancel, so $R(x)$ is not real.



                          This leads directly to our contradiction. After fixing $x$ sufficiently large from above, note that $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real numbers (and we may choose $x$ sufficiently large so that these are nonzero). We then have $P(x)=Q(x)R(x)$, but it is impossible for this equality to hold while $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ are real, but $R(x)$ is not.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered Dec 24 '18 at 2:27









                          Michael BurrMichael Burr

                          26.9k23262




                          26.9k23262






























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