Was the value of thorn (“fawn”) pawns fully appreciated in decades past?
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
Many videos on YouTube channel "Kingscrusher" which discuss the play of new neural-net engines like Leela Chess Zero focus considerable attention upon the development of "thorn pawns" which are pawns that have reached the sixth rank and are blocked by a pawn in front but do not have pawns ahead of them to either side. In my limited study of the game in decades past, I've seen great significance given to passed pawns, but never any special attention given to thorn pawns. Do such pawns have a significance that has only been fully brought out as a result of AI-assisted research, or have they always been understood but simply not in things I'd read? Or is Kingscrusher giving them more significance than they deserve?
A typical thorn-pawn situation would occur when Black has pawns at f7, g7, and h7, white moves h5, Black g6, and white pushes h6. If Black has castled kingside, that pawn at h6 can be very hard to capture, and its presence kills the escape square at g7 and the possibility of easily establishing one at h7. Was that a common pattern in years past, and if so what was it called?
pawns terminology
asked 17 hours ago
supercat
53649
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
Many videos on YouTube channel "Kingscrusher" which discuss the play of new neural-net engines like Leela Chess Zero focus considerable attention upon the development of "thorn pawns" which are pawns that have reached the sixth rank and are blocked by a pawn in front but do not have pawns ahead of them to either side. In my limited study of the game in decades past, I've seen great significance given to passed pawns, but never any special attention given to thorn pawns. Do such pawns have a significance that has only been fully brought out as a result of AI-assisted research, or have they always been understood but simply not in things I'd read? Or is Kingscrusher giving them more significance than they deserve?
A typical thorn-pawn situation would occur when Black has pawns at f7, g7, and h7, white moves h5, Black g6, and white pushes h6. If Black has castled kingside, that pawn at h6 can be very hard to capture, and its presence kills the escape square at g7 and the possibility of easily establishing one at h7. Was that a common pattern in years past, and if so what was it called?
pawns terminology
asked 17 hours ago
supercat
53649
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
Many videos on YouTube channel "Kingscrusher" which discuss the play of new neural-net engines like Leela Chess Zero focus considerable attention upon the development of "thorn pawns" which are pawns that have reached the sixth rank and are blocked by a pawn in front but do not have pawns ahead of them to either side. In my limited study of the game in decades past, I've seen great significance given to passed pawns, but never any special attention given to thorn pawns. Do such pawns have a significance that has only been fully brought out as a result of AI-assisted research, or have they always been understood but simply not in things I'd read? Or is Kingscrusher giving them more significance than they deserve?
A typical thorn-pawn situation would occur when Black has pawns at f7, g7, and h7, white moves h5, Black g6, and white pushes h6. If Black has castled kingside, that pawn at h6 can be very hard to capture, and its presence kills the escape square at g7 and the possibility of easily establishing one at h7. Was that a common pattern in years past, and if so what was it called?
pawns terminology
asked 17 hours ago
supercat
53649
Many videos on YouTube channel "Kingscrusher" which discuss the play of new neural-net engines like Leela Chess Zero focus considerable attention upon the development of "thorn pawns" which are pawns that have reached the sixth rank and are blocked by a pawn in front but do not have pawns ahead of them to either side. In my limited study of the game in decades past, I've seen great significance given to passed pawns, but never any special attention given to thorn pawns. Do such pawns have a significance that has only been fully brought out as a result of AI-assisted research, or have they always been understood but simply not in things I'd read? Or is Kingscrusher giving them more significance than they deserve?
A typical thorn-pawn situation would occur when Black has pawns at f7, g7, and h7, white moves h5, Black g6, and white pushes h6. If Black has castled kingside, that pawn at h6 can be very hard to capture, and its presence kills the escape square at g7 and the possibility of easily establishing one at h7. Was that a common pattern in years past, and if so what was it called?
pawns terminology
pawns terminology
asked 17 hours ago
supercat
53649
asked 17 hours ago
supercat
53649
asked 17 hours ago
supercat
53649
asked 17 hours ago
supercat
53649
asked 17 hours ago
supercat
53649
53649
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
8
down vote
I had never heard the term, but such pawns are very important for their contribution to certain mating patterns, the most famous of which would be Damiano's mate, which was included in Damiano's 1512 book Questo libro e da imparare giocare a scachi et de li partiti. Here's an archetypal example:
[FEN "5rk1/6pQ/6P1/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 1 1"]
answered 15 hours ago
itub
3,5981927
Nice historical example. As used by LC0, however, thorn pawns more typically seem to exhibit their nastiness by controlling territory and paralyzing opposing pieces. An example of that pattern would eliminate the white queen from the above example, put the black rook somewhere else on the eighth rank, and have a white rook placed so it can move to the eighth rank from many places where it could also wreak other mischief. Often, Leela will fall be behind on the quantity of material on the board, and yet--because of thorn pawns--be ahead on the quantity of active material.
– supercat
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "435"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchess.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f23235%2fwas-the-value-of-thorn-fawn-pawns-fully-appreciated-in-decades-past%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
8
down vote
I had never heard the term, but such pawns are very important for their contribution to certain mating patterns, the most famous of which would be Damiano's mate, which was included in Damiano's 1512 book Questo libro e da imparare giocare a scachi et de li partiti. Here's an archetypal example:
[FEN "5rk1/6pQ/6P1/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 1 1"]
answered 15 hours ago
itub
3,5981927
Nice historical example. As used by LC0, however, thorn pawns more typically seem to exhibit their nastiness by controlling territory and paralyzing opposing pieces. An example of that pattern would eliminate the white queen from the above example, put the black rook somewhere else on the eighth rank, and have a white rook placed so it can move to the eighth rank from many places where it could also wreak other mischief. Often, Leela will fall be behind on the quantity of material on the board, and yet--because of thorn pawns--be ahead on the quantity of active material.
– supercat
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
I had never heard the term, but such pawns are very important for their contribution to certain mating patterns, the most famous of which would be Damiano's mate, which was included in Damiano's 1512 book Questo libro e da imparare giocare a scachi et de li partiti. Here's an archetypal example:
[FEN "5rk1/6pQ/6P1/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 1 1"]
answered 15 hours ago
itub
3,5981927
Nice historical example. As used by LC0, however, thorn pawns more typically seem to exhibit their nastiness by controlling territory and paralyzing opposing pieces. An example of that pattern would eliminate the white queen from the above example, put the black rook somewhere else on the eighth rank, and have a white rook placed so it can move to the eighth rank from many places where it could also wreak other mischief. Often, Leela will fall be behind on the quantity of material on the board, and yet--because of thorn pawns--be ahead on the quantity of active material.
– supercat
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
I had never heard the term, but such pawns are very important for their contribution to certain mating patterns, the most famous of which would be Damiano's mate, which was included in Damiano's 1512 book Questo libro e da imparare giocare a scachi et de li partiti. Here's an archetypal example:
[FEN "5rk1/6pQ/6P1/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 1 1"]
answered 15 hours ago
itub
3,5981927
I had never heard the term, but such pawns are very important for their contribution to certain mating patterns, the most famous of which would be Damiano's mate, which was included in Damiano's 1512 book Questo libro e da imparare giocare a scachi et de li partiti. Here's an archetypal example:
[FEN "5rk1/6pQ/6P1/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 1 1"]
answered 15 hours ago
itub
3,5981927
answered 15 hours ago
itub
3,5981927
answered 15 hours ago
itub
3,5981927
answered 15 hours ago
itub
3,5981927
3,5981927
Nice historical example. As used by LC0, however, thorn pawns more typically seem to exhibit their nastiness by controlling territory and paralyzing opposing pieces. An example of that pattern would eliminate the white queen from the above example, put the black rook somewhere else on the eighth rank, and have a white rook placed so it can move to the eighth rank from many places where it could also wreak other mischief. Often, Leela will fall be behind on the quantity of material on the board, and yet--because of thorn pawns--be ahead on the quantity of active material.
– supercat
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Nice historical example. As used by LC0, however, thorn pawns more typically seem to exhibit their nastiness by controlling territory and paralyzing opposing pieces. An example of that pattern would eliminate the white queen from the above example, put the black rook somewhere else on the eighth rank, and have a white rook placed so it can move to the eighth rank from many places where it could also wreak other mischief. Often, Leela will fall be behind on the quantity of material on the board, and yet--because of thorn pawns--be ahead on the quantity of active material.
– supercat
7 hours ago
Nice historical example. As used by LC0, however, thorn pawns more typically seem to exhibit their nastiness by controlling territory and paralyzing opposing pieces. An example of that pattern would eliminate the white queen from the above example, put the black rook somewhere else on the eighth rank, and have a white rook placed so it can move to the eighth rank from many places where it could also wreak other mischief. Often, Leela will fall be behind on the quantity of material on the board, and yet--because of thorn pawns--be ahead on the quantity of active material.
– supercat
7 hours ago
Nice historical example. As used by LC0, however, thorn pawns more typically seem to exhibit their nastiness by controlling territory and paralyzing opposing pieces. An example of that pattern would eliminate the white queen from the above example, put the black rook somewhere else on the eighth rank, and have a white rook placed so it can move to the eighth rank from many places where it could also wreak other mischief. Often, Leela will fall be behind on the quantity of material on the board, and yet--because of thorn pawns--be ahead on the quantity of active material.
– supercat
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Chess Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchess.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f23235%2fwas-the-value-of-thorn-fawn-pawns-fully-appreciated-in-decades-past%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
